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Link Interesting read imo......especially about wanting to be involved more in football. This leads credence to the idea of a Wolfe/Acorsi type of guy who's older coming in and training Kosar............ By Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff writer Posted Dec 07, 2009 @ 11:52 AM Bernie Kosar says Browns owner Randy Lerner is actively talking to potential football operations hires but isn’t sneaking around. “He’s just sick being 1-11, but he’s not going to break the rules to go do stuff,” Kosar, an adviser to Lerner, said this morning on WKNR. “But if there are guys out there, you’re allowed to talk to, or teams have given permission. ... Yeah, he’s starting to look for those type guys, because we need to define especially the football operations side of the team.” Lerner is seeking a football operations leader and perhaps entourage to help dig the team out of a cold spell that includes 17 losses in the last 18 games. Head Coach Eric Mangini’s fate probably rides on the eventual front-office hires. WKNR host Tony Rizzo asked Kosar if it will be hard to attract quality people to a franchise that has tasted so much defeat. “Because it’s been so bad for so long,” Kosar said, “the guys have nowhere to go but up. “Because of (Lerner’s) reputation in the inner circle of the league ... of being able to spend and wanting to spend money, that’s one thing in the Browns favor and in his favor. “And the other thing is, there’s 11 draft picks next year. I think Eric (Mangini) started last year with four picks. You can’t build a good team with four, five and six draft picks. “I think there’s people who would really enjoy that challenge.” Kosar, who quarterbacked the 1980s Browns to three AFC championship games, said he has worked more closely with Lerner in “the last month or two” than ever before. He said he does not know what his role with the team will be next year, but ... “I really want to do football stuff,” Kosar said. “I do love it. I feel like I get it. And I do want to be involved.” Kosar shed little light on Mangini’s future, but he made it clear that the Browns’ somewhat competitive loss to San Diego on Sunday only counts for so much. “I try to stay away from when-I-played type of statements,” he said, “but these type (seasons) happened at times with me in my career, and I remember arguing with some front-office people because ‘we almost won a game.’ And they were happy. They thought they saved their jobs. And I wanted to throw up on ’em to be honest with you. “College football and high school football is somewhat about sportsmanship and competition and the purity of the game. Pro football’s not. Pro football’s about winning and losing. “Almost wins don’t count in the NFL.”
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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17 losses in the last 18 games.
Wow. That never dawned on me. That's bad.
Good to see Bernie in our future plans.
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Quote:
“Almost wins don’t count in the NFL.”
....but for us fans, that's all we have to look forward to.
While I don't like Bernie to be a GM/President type, I do think that he's probably giving Lerner real, honest input about why things haven't worked and the importance of geting the GM/Coach on the same page which hasn't happened here in a long time....
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Who better to give Lerner advice from all sides of the octagon fence ?
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Love this: Quote:
Kosar shed little light on Mangini’s future, but he made it clear that the Browns’ somewhat competitive loss to San Diego on Sunday only counts for so much.
“I try to stay away from when-I-played type of statements,” he said, “but these type (seasons) happened at times with me in my career, and I remember arguing with some front-office people because ‘we almost won a game.’ And they were happy. They thought they saved their jobs. And I wanted to throw up on ’em to be honest with you.
“College football and high school football is somewhat about sportsmanship and competition and the purity of the game. Pro football’s not. Pro football’s about winning and losing.
“Almost wins don’t count in the NFL.”
Sounds like another Mangini supporter 
The fact that nobody has gone to bat for the guy by now, is all you need to know....quack, quack
#gmstrong
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“Because of (Lerner’s) reputation in the inner circle of the league ... of being able to spend and wanting to spend money, that’s one thing in the Browns favor and in his favor.
This could be good or bad......how many times can you hire a coach / gm then cut them loose after a short stint....Then to pay them for not being apart of the org.. I would love to get a job at the Browns...work for a year get fired... then have a pay check for a couple years....That`s bad....even if a mill or two doesn`t hurt his pocket book...
On the other side ...well heck....is there one ?
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“I really want to do football stuff,” Kosar said. “I do love it. I feel like I get it. And I do want to be involved.”
involved as gm ?
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Kosar shed little light on Mangini’s future, but he made it clear that the Browns’ somewhat competitive loss to San Diego on Sunday only counts for so much.
Mangini going to be the first priority of your gm position ?
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I read that this morning. That was pretty damning.
Or was it prophetic?
Either way, it was the exact opposite of an endorsement.
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Quote:
“I really want to do football stuff,” Kosar said.
That part had me chuckling . . . I want to do stuff . . .
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Either way, it was the exact opposite of an endorsement.
The say it without saying it. If you can stand up and say "Look, I know things look bad, but he's our guy." Then he isn't the guy.
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Quote:
and I remember arguing with some front-office people because ‘we almost won a game.’ And they were happy. They thought they saved their jobs. And I wanted to throw up on ’em to be honest with you.
Oh Man,, that's what this organization needs.. That's the kinda thinking from the top down.. Don't you just love it 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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While I don't like Bernie to be a GM/President type
Not sure why you feel that way, but I kinda agree with you on that. It's not that I don't want him as GM or Pres or whatever, I don't want him NOW in that role.
He's not experienced in the draft or scouting arena. I'd rather have an Ernie Accorsi or Wolfe step in and train him to be the next top dude.. A couple of years under either of them, Bernie could be ready. He's smart enough... And he certainly has the game knowledge,, it's the drafting and scouting stuff that concerns me.. only from the lack of experience.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Either way, it was the exact opposite of an endorsement.
The say it without saying it. If you can stand up and say "Look, I know things look bad, but he's our guy." Then he isn't the guy.
I just think we are reading too much into this article. Its not even clear what Kosar's role will be, so he can't come out and say one way or the other on Mangini. He could put the future team president in a bad situation. Whatever Mangini may be, as a coach he knows the score. He knows 1-11 doesn't cut it and I can't imagine he is happy with losing b/c he will be gone.
I think this is probably more the journalist picking one quote (of many) that looks slanted against Mangini to play to her readers. They've got to sell papers.
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Quote:
I read that this morning. That was pretty damning.
Or was it prophetic?
Either way, it was the exact opposite of an endorsement.
That's why I always respected Romeo...he didn't make up excuses in his pressers...he was all bottom line and took responsibility....Mangini just seems delusional like "you don't get my great process, stupid" and always deflects accountablity talking about "process" or "belief in a plan"...yet he was quick to point out areas where the team improved (ST and penalties)....so he was proud talking bout those but never bout areas teh performance clearly went south....that's all you need to know about him as PERSON...no way I can respect somebody like that
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Its not even clear what Kosar's role will be, so he can't come out and say one way or the other on Mangini.
To us it isn't clear, but to Kosar and Lerner, it may be..
The simple fact that he didn't come out in favor of retaining Mangini doesn't mean much. Not at this point anyway. Unless, it will be his decision to make. I'm thinking no, but hey, we don't know.
We have 4 more games to get through and then something will hit the fan,.. and whatever it is, you can bet, it won't be distributed evenly.... 
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/08/09 10:31 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I like that comment too...BUT...you have to be careful not to confuse taking positives from a game like we had Sunday vs settling for "almost winning a game". There is a fine line there and once you cross that line for settling for the "almost win" then yes Bernie has a point that is 100% on the money.
I don't think anyone is happy that we lost on Sunday. I was there and I was located at the tunnel, I could see the faces of the coaches as they came off the field. I can tell you that they certainly did not appear satisfied with just "a good showing". Especially Ryan...lol......But I do like how we presented ourselves in a manner that we did not stop fighting no matter how over matched we were or how hopless the situation was...And those are positives to build off of. You take positives where you can get them. And you try to correct the negatives...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Yup,, I agree with all of that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Maybe Bernie could succeed ..... and maybe not ......
It seems to me that the NFL is one place where you have to work your way up.
Just like you cannot take a guy off the line at Lordstown to run GM, (and the fact vthat he might not do worse is not an argument in favor of) neither can you throw a guy into the front office.
Just as a Head Coach must learn to delegate, so must a GM and team president. In fact, the GM and team president must work ONLY through their subordinates and colleagues .... while not over-riding them at every juncture. They must trust in what they saw in the people below them ..... watch for major deviations, but not get involved in every minor decision.
This is my biggest worry with Kosar. He has had this type of position before. He has been part owner of a team. He has also been reported as a guy who stuck his nose into everything, whether appropriate or not. Hell, the Florida NFL team threw him out of his own office despite the fact that he owned a share of the team.
Kosar was great at seeing what was going on around him on a football field, and responding appropriately. He has shown little evidence that he can do so outside of the chalk lines.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This is my biggest worry with Kosar. He has had this type of position before. He has been part owner of a team. He has also been reported as a guy who stuck his nose into everything, whether appropriate or not. Hell, the Florida NFL team threw him out of his own office despite the fact that he owned a share of the team.
Hmmm..I haven't seen anything negative about BK while he helped established the Cleveland Arena team.
And what Florida NFL team threw him out of his office?
I thought dude was in some non-football venture?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/08/09 12:19 PM.
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And he did seem to do a good job there .....
Of course, that league itself was so well run that they folded in Kosar's 2nd year with the team .... so ...... I don't know .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Hell, the Florida NFL team threw him out of his own office despite the fact that he owned a share of the team.
What NFL Team in Florida did Bernie own a piece of?
I think your thinking of an indoor soccer or hockey team right? Not an NFL team.,. Did they really throw him out or is that another old wives tale?
I just don't remember any article or discusson on that..
As for Bernie being able to do that job,, today, No, I don't think so. I don't think he has any knowledge of scouting or drafting. He has no real solid experience at running anything other than an offense and that was 15 years ago..
That's not what Bernie is all about.. What he is is raw talent with intimate knowledge of what it takes to win, he's got the desire and I think can inspire young players, he's a smart guy and could very well be capable of growing into a fine GM for the Browns..
But it will take time.. I question if he's got the ability to walk in tomorrow and take over.. I doubt he knows nearly enough to be able to do that.
But that doesn't diminish the positives he does have. I just think it will take some seasoning.. time in grade.. and some teaching from someone that's been there, done that...
Wolfe or Accorsi are just about perfect for that role..
Will it happen that way.. hell if I know
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Of course, that league itself was so well run that they folded in Kosar's 2nd year with the team .... so ...... I don't know
Do you mean "poorly" run? I bet you do.
That really isn't my understanding. That league wasn't financially feasible given our nations current economic condition. League wide, they weren't putting enough butts in the seats..
It hasn't actually folded, but is on Hiatus until the economy is ripe for it again... we'll see...
and yeah, Kosar did a hell of a job with that organization...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Bernie was part owner of the Florida Panthers.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Bernie was part owner of the Florida Panthers.
What was the sport,, I don't remember?
On a side note, I just went to lunch and was reading the plain dealer.. when I got to the sports page, there was a small blurb about the arena league coming back in 2010 and that Jim Ferrero, owner of the Cleveland Gladiators was expecting Bernie Kosar to continue as President..
So I get back to the office, try to search for it on line and either I can't find it or it's not posted yet.. odd considering it's already in todays paper...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah ... it was NHL ... I mistyped.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah ... it was NHL ... I mistyped.
Kinda thought that it wasn't NFL,,, LOL
Now to the part about him being kicked out.of a locker room or whereever by a team he owns, where did you find that info.. I just did a quick search (apparently my searching skills aren't all that great LOL) I can't find anything about any confrontations that any team had with Kosar...
Edit: I found it
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/12/source_arena_football_will_ret.html
Quote:
Indoor football returns in 2010 as Cleveland franchise takes part in 'Arena Football 1'
By Dennis Manoloff
December 07, 2009, 11:44PM
Arena football is expected to return to The Q in 2010.
UPDATED: 11:45 p.m.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Arena football is returning to Cleveland in 2010.
The Cleveland team will play in a new league, Arena Football 1, which begins in the spring. A news conference is scheduled for Tuesday afternoon.
Jim Ferraro, who owned the Cleveland Gladiators of the Arena Football League in 2008, will own the new team, also expected to be named the Gladiators.
A source said Ferraro will again have Bernie Kosar as part of the front office. Kosar, the former Browns quarterback, was president of the Gladiators in 2008.
The new Gladiators are expected to play at The Q, which was their original home.
The AFL's Gladiators reached the playoffs in their inaugural season in Cleveland after relocating from Las Vegas. They averaged 14,017 fans in nine home games. But Ferraro said last December that the franchise lost $2 million to $2.5 million. Add relocation fees from Las Vegas, and the loss was about $4 million, Ferraro said.
Last December, Ferraro voted with 11 other AFL teams to suspend operations for 2009. Ferraro said the AFL needed to drastically change its business model if it wanted to return. The league is not coming back, but Ferraro and others once associated with it are.
© 2009 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/08/09 04:08 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kosar dismisses notion that top
candidates might shun Cleveland.
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