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I am curious, many poster on here are calling David Veikune a bust, and various other things. The fact is the guy hasn't even played yet, and is essentially a rookie...a red shirted rookie. why hasn't he played? Perhaps Rob Ryan and Mangini are not comfortable yet with him on the defensive terminology. Perhaps they are working on a few thing with him and he isn't ready yet. Perhaps he has an undisclosed injury. I don't know, but we can't rip on him and declare him a bust when he hasn't even played. David Veikune has the "size" at 6'2 257 pounds...He can probably play both inside or outside LB. I know many had Ryan and Mangini projecting him ILB to help Jackson by putting someone with some good size next to him. Just a bit about him Quote:
Appeared in 41 games in his career at Hawaii (2006-08), including 15 starts…Recorded 118 tackles, 18 sacks, 28 stops for losses, 12 quarterback pressures, three pass deflections and four forced fumbles from his defensive end position…Was a three-time Academic All-Western Athletic Conference selection…Earned second-team All- WAC honors as a senior in 2008 when he recorded a career-high 73 tackles, the third-best total on the team, and nine sacks…Also forced four fumbles, the most by a Warrior player in a season since Al Noga recorded six in 1986…His two forced fumbles vs. Nevada tied the school game-record set by several players, most recently by Melila Purcell (vs. New Mexico State in 2006)…In 2007, earned first-team All-WAC accolades as he registered 34 tackles, seven sacks and 8.5 stops for loss…Played at Fresno City College in 2005, earning All-Northern California Conference honorable mention accolades
David Veikune has talent, In fact, I think he will be an outstanding ILB for this football. Bill Parcells was extremly high on this guy and many say Parcells would have taken him off the board in the same round we drafted him.
If Parcells thinks the guy a good LB, i'll take his word for it..he is rarely wrong.
I think Veikune will be a big contributor on this football team next year, and may even be a starter next year, and the kid will excel.
It wouldn't suprise me to see Mangini retained, but thats for another post all together
fact is Veikune hasn't even been given a fair shot here...you put the kid in when he is ready, and not before...Teddy Bruschi redshirted his first year I do belive..but he was a bust right?
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I think the point is that we lack talent and second-rounders should at least play if not start... posiible exception being a QB.
I think the distaste is directed towards mangini, not veikune.
Speaking of which (hijack attempt) why in the world ws robiskie not in the game more after last week?
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JMO, but this guy could have been had in a later round.Maybe even UDFA 
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Quote:
JMO,
but this guy could have been had in a later round.Maybe even UDFA
I don't think so...no way Parcells and Miami passes on Veikune no way....just because he hasn't played doesn''t mean he is not any good. See Evan Moore...the kid needs time to develop...he will be a good player i bet
Parcells wanted him....would you question Parcells if he was the one who drafted Veikune?
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JMO,
but this guy could have been had in a later round.Maybe even UDFA
Your opinion is incorrect. Not saying he was the best move there, but it is likely he'd have been gone by the time we picked again.
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Quote:
Quote:
JMO,
but this guy could have been had in a later round.Maybe even UDFA
I don't think so...no way Parcells and Miami passes on Veikune no way....just because he hasn't played doesn''t mean he is not any good. See Evan Moore...the kid needs time to develop...he will be a good player i bet
Parcells wanted him....would you question Parcells if he was the one who drafted Veikune?
Where did you see Parcel's wanted him? First I have heard of that.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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#gmstrong
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Yuppers, TB did redshirt. Veikune is a smart kid but as RP said, the ILB position isn't for kids in this type of 3-4. You have to man up into it and grow.
The reason why Veikune was taken so high was because of his ceiling inside, a ceiling you aren't going to find alot of the time in the lower rounds.
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Perhaps he just sucks.
A 2nd round LB that can't even dress for a talent starved team such as ours,implies bust.
Jesus,a LB that can't play ST's is a sorry LB.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
Perhaps he just sucks.
A 2nd round LB that can't even dress for a talent starved team such as ours,implies bust.
Jesus,a LB that can't play ST's is a sorry LB.
This.
We've lost half our defensive line, 3/4 of our linebackers. This guy can't see the field? Really?
You know who this eerily feels like? Travis Wilson.
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This kid needs time to develop, and Mangini has proven that he likes to allow players to develop Off-Field until they are ready to play on Sundays.
It's all about winning, and if a player isn't ready to accept his roles yet, then he is going to go to the next guy that can.
Give the kid time.
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Seriously.
I've been thinking the same thing. This guy can't even get on the punt team? That means one of two thing. One, he is not good. Two, he doesn't show any effort. We know he shows effort because that is pretty much the reason Mangini drafted him.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Kaluka Maiava will end up being the best player from the 2009 draft. David Veikune, not so much.
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Quote:
Perhaps he just sucks.
A 2nd round LB that can't even dress for a talent starved team such as ours,implies bust.
Jesus,a LB that can't play ST's is a sorry LB.
In all fairness, since he was a DE in college, the transition to ILB has to be monumental considering it takes DEs time to transition to OLB.
As for playing special teams that does leave me guessing. There is no excuse good enough to draft Robiskie where he did and not play him but I can give him time with Veikune.
As far as Parcells having interest in him I see nothing in those two articles that would lead me to believe that Veikune would be a Dolphin in any round in particular. For all we know he could have been a fifth or sixth option.
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Maybe it's because some of us have watched him play.
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So are you saying, that if the Browns didnt draft Veikune, that Miami would have picked Veikune in the 2nd round over the CB Sean Smith they picked up a few picks later? Miami had an even earlier pick that went to Indy. Did Miami trade that pick to Indy because the Browns picked Veikune?
Parcells might have shown some interest, but that doesnt mean that Veikune was not a reach in the 2nd. Parcells could have picked him up in the latter rounds. The Dolphins also traded up in the 2nd round, 8 spots ahead of Veikunes selection to get Pat White. They also had a pick a few selections behind Veikune that ended up going to the Colts who used that selection on DT Fili Maoli. Not sure if that trade was made before or after the Veikune selection. Im guessing the Veikune selection had nothing to do with the 3 moves the Dolphins made in the 2nd round last year (2 selections, one traded away). Miami does have an eye for Hawaii players. They picked up WR Devon Bess (I think an UDFA) and in the 07 draft they picked up a Hawaii guard in the 2nd and a RB in the 6th. IMO, which I could be way off, I dont think LB was a big need for Miami for them to pick Veikune in the 2nd. NFL.com has Miami needing DL and LB but they didnt use a selection for their front seven until the 7th round on OLB J.D. Folsom, a pick they received from the Browns.
Im hoping for the best for Veikune but Ive seen more production out of Chaun Thompson who many labled a bust. Who was also a reach but ended up being a decent specail teamer and good backup that could step in at ILB or OLB at any point of the game. He also led the Browns in sacks the year before Wimbley was selected (5-tied with McKinnley), and was good in coverage.
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Quote:
it was all speculation I believe....articles like this one from the Sun-Sentinal coming out of Miami:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_foo...nce-taylor.html
and he did formally interview him as well:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2009-03-31/sports/0903310135_1_draft-winds-dolphins-trips/2
Those articles are speculation. The first article is the writers guess on who would be Parcells next great LBing LT. The writer list 11 of his own LB possibilities.
The next article has about 80 total players that any Miami front office personnel has interviewed or paid attention to at the combine.
Is there a link of Parcells singling out Veikune and shown interest? Or what position Parcells would have wanted Veikune to play (DE,OLB,ILB)?
On a side note, I really like Bowens as an ILB better then Barton. I could be wrong because its been a while since Ive seen Jackson play (out of sight out of mind), but I think Ive seen Bowens make more game changing plays(sacks, QB pressure, in coverage) at ILB than Jackson. Jackson is a RFA, and Im sure Mangini or the new guys (unless its an imminent change to the 4-3 defense) will try to do everything in their power to keep Jackson a Brown after this season. I wouldnt use a Franchise Tag on Jackson because I dont feel he is worth top 5 ILB pay for a year. I would use that tag on Vickers and pay him top 5 FB money (wouldnt cost too much) and really wouldnt want to lose Vickers. There are too many holes too fill to lose either Vickers or Jackson. Transition Jackson if they stay 3-4, and force another team to give the Browns a 1st and 3rd if they want to sign him! Imagine if Vickers played for Shanahan. I think he could be a more productive RB than Shanahan got out of Reuben Droughens. Plus Vickers can catch!
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Speaking of Chaun Thompson...I remember a lot of people here who swore up and down for years that if we hadn't taken him, the team right after us (NYJ?) would've.
I'd never seen anything to substantiate it...but it lived on as gospel.
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I think I heard butch say that himself also. But we all know how butchspeak was. Didnt hear that in a while  Ive seen a couple mocks of Thompson going late second or in a top 100 prospect list. But I still think Butch could have waited a drafted Thompson a round later. But I think Butch drafted A. Henry in the 3rd (the best pick he might have ever made for the Browns), then A. Davis in the 4th then Bentley in the 5th.
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Quote:
I am curious, many poster on here are calling David Veikune a bust
I honestly haven't heard anyone call him a bust,, I've seen lots of questions as to why he isn't playing.. But that's about it.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
I am curious, many poster on here are calling David Veikune a bust
I honestly haven't heard anyone call him a bust,, I've seen lots of questions as to why he isn't playing.. But that's about it.
you must have a few of these posters on ignore...I can think of a few that called him a bust the second he was drafted. maybe they were right, but I am still going to hold out some hope for him.
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I'll say it.David Veikune is a bust. He's a second round draft choice for a 2 and 11 team and hes not good enough to put on a uniform on game days. When I watch St Clair butcher the RT position and remember we could have drafted Loadholt whos playing decent RT for the Vikes but instead we got two 2nd round stiffs that contribute absolutely zero to help this miserable team. It pisses me off. So yeah, I don't much care for Veikune or the people who drafted him.  I think it was Parcells that said, you are what your record say you are. I'd argue the same applies to DV. He's basically a practice squad guy that so far has been a complete waste of a high draft pick.Thank you Manganius. For the love of pete, buy a draft magazine. I'm sick of anxiously following the draft only to see the Browns get guys who can't play. 
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remember we could have drafted Loadholt whos playing decent RT for the Vikes
sure, he might be better in the future...but you are referring to the same Loadholt that made Wimbley look like a probowler, right?
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Quote:
Quote:
remember we could have drafted Loadholt whos playing decent RT for the Vikes
sure, he might be better in the future...but you are referring to the same Loadholt that made Wimbley look like a probowler, right?
Yeah the guy who from game one put on a uniform,started and played.If memory serves I think they beat us like a rented mule? 
There are a lot of shoulda woulda coulda players we could reference.This is about Veikune. I picked Loadhold because I want to see the Oline fixed and I'd rather see a rookie struggle at RT than ST Clair whiffing on even run blocks. We could use some other position help too. Right?
Anyway If my house was on fire and instead of calling the local fire department I called the smart neighbor kid who wants to be a fireman someday I'm sure in hindsight I'd call that a big mistake. DV is a big mistake. 
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you must have a few of these posters on ignore...I can think of a few that called him a bust the second he was drafted. maybe they were right, but I am still going to hold out some hope for him.
I guess I could.. But I usually ignore those that say that before they see a guy play in the NFL.. Obviously, someone that knows more about Selecting players thought there was something there so I will reserve jugement.
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Damanshot
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There are a lot of shoulda woulda coulda players we could reference.This is about Veikune. I picked Loadhold because I want to see the Oline fixed and I'd rather see a rookie struggle at RT than ST Clair whiffing on even run blocks.
if this is about Veikune, why did you bring up Loadholt? Just kidding with ya.
Seriously, we are talking about the vision of two coaches... One says, I'll take this rookie and baptise him in fire.. the other coach says, I'll take this rookie and sit him until he's ready..
It's a coaching decision.... and you are laying it strickly at the feet of the Player. The player doesn't chose to sit on Sunday.. Who's to say that sitting Loadholt wouldn't have been smarter in the long run than throwing him in there..
It's short term view vs long term view...
Case in point,, Robo. He sat, then when he got his chance, he did a pretty damn nice job.. Don't you think? Was he ready all along, or did he work hard and get ready while sitting? I honestly don't know the answer..
that's also why it may be shortsighted to call him a bust without having the benefit of having seen him play in the Pros...... If he's a bust, it will become evident when he hits the field or very clear if he doesn't ever hit the field...
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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"Seriously, we are talking about the vision of two coaches... "
Or,we can talk about two teams,both with O-line needs.One is 11-2,with a rookie at RT,looking towards the pplayoffs.The other is 2-11,with a rookie LB that can't see the field.
It doesn't take a genious to figure out who drafted the better player.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I can understand the selections of Mo Mass and Robo.
Stallworth was going to jail.
Edwards was on his way to Spew York. ( He was destined to go to one of those NY teams)
Joe J. was at the end of his career.
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Quote:
"Seriously, we are talking about the vision of two coaches... "
Or,we can talk about two teams,both with O-line needs.One is 11-2,with a rookie at RT,looking towards the pplayoffs.The other is 2-11,with a rookie LB that can't see the field.
It doesn't take a genious to figure out who drafted the better player.
 You think the surrounding cast might have something to do with that  . We don't have Favre at QB, the best football player in the world at HB, a deep, explosive receiving corps., more solid line play, and a front 7 that is capable of being the baddest in the league when everyone is healthy....
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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No,the surrounding players have absolutely nothing to do with this.
It comes down to player eval.Both teams had o-line needs,one team choose a LB,the other took a RT.
The RT is starting,the LB is nothing more than a cheerleader.
You're really good with those little smiley faces,whatever makes you happy.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
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JMO,
but this guy could have been had in a later round.Maybe even UDFA
I don't think so...no way Parcells and Miami passes on Veikune no way....just because he hasn't played doesn''t mean he is not any good. See Evan Moore...the kid needs time to develop...he will be a good player i bet
Parcells wanted him....would you question Parcells if he was the one who drafted Veikune?
then Miami would have reached too.
Hey,
I want DV to develop and so do all his other "detractors".
Just doesn't look like, at this point, that the selection was smart IN ROUND 2.
If Gini had looked at a draft book,as someone else has stated, or looked at ESPN draft coverage, maybe Gini would have made a more informed decision.
Mel Kuiper has a "best players left" running across the bottom of the screen IIRC.
Even if DV develops into a stud,it was still a reach IMO.
Reach = could have gotten him cheaper
and IMO this was Mangini's only bad personnel decision.Everything else he has at least used logic.
Problem is that Mangini was desperate for a tweener. Reaching is a result of desperation....
Last edited by Line Judge; 12/12/09 09:19 AM.
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Or,we can talk about two teams,both with O-line needs.One is 11-2,with a rookie at RT,looking towards the pplayoffs.The other is 2-11,with a rookie LB that can't see the field
What a crazy argument,, by saying that, you are saying that Loadholt is the reason for the Vikings successs this year... What,, have you forgotten Favre and Peterson to name a few... Come on BC,, you can come up with a better argument that that....
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Quote:
"Seriously, we are talking about the vision of two coaches... "
It doesn't take a genious to figure out who drafted the better player.
or maybe it does, considering we got a vet RT previously......took a C in the first, and drafted on need rather than BPA.
but your already knew that, right?
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Quote:
If Gini had looked at a draft book,as someone else has stated, or looked at ESPN draft coverage, maybe Gini would have made a more informed decision.
Mel Kuiper has a "best players left" running across the bottom of the screen IIRC.
Problem is that Mangini was desperate for a tweener. Reaching is a result of desperation....
so in your opinion, espn and a couple sports opinionists should the guiding intelligence used by our draft team? to say that information like this would help make a more informed decision over something like, say, a scouting report, or a visit to watch a game, is a pretty humorous statement to say the least.....
really?
wow...thats a larger reach that DV in the second.....
or he wanted a good tweaner for Ryan, whose just shown a crazy UFO nickle that could greatly benefit from a player capable of playing all linebacker positions and rush the midle and edge.
more like logic than desperation to me.....
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If we had drafted for need CMIII would have been the pick ahead of Mack.
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Reserving judgement on DV, cuz it's unfair to label him a bust this early. But, it doesn't look good when a 2nd-round pick can't get on the field on a crappy team like our's, esp. with our LB injuries.
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mack was always the pick....jmo
but your board =/ browns/mangini's board....
Last edited by choco; 12/12/09 12:07 PM.
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This might be out there a ways.....but....considering we did not have a 3rd rd. pick I'm wondering if Mang took him there because he felt like he would be gone by the 4th. Really just using the last 2nd rd as a 3rd we did not have. I know that does not seem to smart, but IF he was looking forward to the 3rd rd. then decided he had to use his last 2nd. to get his 3rd. then, yeah I can see that.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I realize it was a preseason game, but I watched Veikune slam into a RB, standing straight up, and knock the guy flat on his butt. Veikune was still standing after the hit and looking down at the RB. As I said, preseason, but the guy looks like he can deliver a hit. I'd like to see him play some more, but if he's not ready, he shouldn't play.
Hopefully, Veikune isn't flat out stupid. That could be a big reason he's not playing in a 3-4.
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Definitely not stupid. Mangini praised him for being able to pick up on the defense immediately, and he got like a 30 on the wonderlic.
I'd say his inability to get on the field stems from his transition to ILB from DE.
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