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All Pro
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Vickers is a very good FB. If we were better he'd get way more publicity. He's one of my favorite new players. 
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Since no other upcoming FA is deserving of the Franchise tag, to be paid like the average of the top 5 of the position, Vickers should get that tag. Dont let him leave. Tag him and work out a long term deal. It wont cost that much. It might not even cost much more than franchising a punter. Which is a Belicheck move and I see Mangini franchising Vickers.
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Hall of Famer
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That'd be a helluva waste of a franchise tag, since without a new CBA he'll be a restricted free agent.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Legend
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He sounds like the loyal type.. I'd bet a deal gets worked out.. Just a guess...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
He's one of my favorite new players.
new? 
2009 Cleveland Browns 13 6 -- -- -- -- -- 8 27 3.4 12 1 1 0
2008 Cleveland Browns 12 8 10 31 3.1 10 0 10 78 7.8 21 0 -- --
2007 Cleveland Browns 16 14 15 43 2.9 7 0 13 91 7.0 25 2 -- --
2006 Cleveland Browns 16 1 3 2 0.7 2 0 6 60 10.0 29 0 -- --
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Legend
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Legend
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Line,,, to be fair, his job isn't to run the ball or catch the ball for lots of yards or to pad his stats.. his job is to blow someone up and make a hole for a RB.
He does that rather well.....
I don't think that makes him worth tagging but he's very good at what he does...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawg Talker
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fullbacks are a dime a dozen
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Legend
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Legend
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I think he's the best FB in the NFL
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Quote:
fullbacks are a dime a dozen
Well then if you would rather go in a differant direction, then we agree to disagree.
I think he could step in a halfback if needed. He an above average pass catcher for a FB and I think he is better then a dine a dozen FB.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
fullbacks are a dime a dozen
Only the average ones.. the good ones are a little fewer and farther between...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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A good FB is key to a team's run game.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I think he's the best FB in the NFL
Funny,that's was what everyone said about Terrel Smith. There are more good fullbacks then most think. Vickers is good, but the "best in the NFL"?
#gmstrong
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I've seen many non Browns fans say he's the best blocking one in the league. He is well known as being one of the elite.
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listening to him say "you play to win, you don't play to lose..." reminds me why some people should shut up.. Rod Woodson needs to shut up..  I watched that link that was posted in this forum to watch the game from nfl.com and well Rod Woodson was criticizing the Browns for punting it on 4th and 10 in the 1st quarter saying that we had no reason to play and that we should play for the draft pick... The more I see of him, the more I dislike him.. Maybe because he is too much of a homer and will only give glory to his old team and any team that does good against them.. it's not glory but it's because they made a rare not-so often made mistake or because they are missing someone on the field..
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Quote:
I've seen many non Browns fans say he's the best blocking one in the league. He is well known as being one of the elite.
Vickers also is always in national magizines (like SI) and sports sites as a "Pro Bowl snub" the past 2 years. National sports writers know who he is and give him his deserved credit.
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Rookie
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We need to keep this guy. We have enough spots to fill and this should not be one. When healthy this guy is a beast and one of our better picks from the past.
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Quote:
Quote:
fullbacks are a dime a dozen
Well then if you would rather go in a differant direction, then we agree to disagree.
I think he could step in a halfback if needed. He an above average pass catcher for a FB and I think he is better then a dine a dozen FB.
if you look at the stats you will see that he really hasn't caught alot of passes or ran the ball much for that matter. He is still a blocking back and blocking backs are a dime a dozen.
Lining up two TEs could be as effective as having a FB or Hank in the backfield....
I'm not saying not to keep him, but franchise tag.? Seriously?
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Legend
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I think Vickers should be running the ball... He was a beast at Colorado. I think the Ravens run their FB a lot.. forgot his name.
In all honestly.. If we didn't draft a big back like Legarette Blount or Dixon from Miss. St...
I wouldn't mind a combo run game of:
James Davis
Lawrence Vickers
Jerome Harrison/ Chris Jennings
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All Pro
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Quote:
if you look at the stats you will see that he really hasn't caught alot of passes or ran the ball much for that matter. He is still a blocking back and blocking backs are a dime a dozen.
I don't really agree that blocking backs are a dime a dozen. There are elite blocking backs. Lorenzo Neal (largely a blocking back) comes to mind; everywhere he went, the running game was excellent. I also distinctly remember after the Titans released Neal, Eddie George was never the same.
IMO and as others have said, a good blocking fullback is not only paramount to the run game (especially in the AFC North where you have to be able to run the ball in December), but he also absorbs a lot of hits that the RB doesn't have to take, thus keeping the RB healthy. Its not the same as having two TEs, especially if you want to run inside the tackles where the RB can follow a FB with a head of steam through the hole.
That being said, the only two players who are FA at the end of this year who in my opinion would warrant consideration for a tag are D'Qwell and Vickers (provided rules stay the same based on the CBA getting done). So Vickers may get tagged by default if they don't want to give D'Qwell a huge raise.
http://walterfootball.com/freeagentscontractscle.php
2008 LB salaries: http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footb...nterstitialskip
Last edited by tjs7; 12/13/09 11:49 AM.
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That is not true at all. Blocking fullbacks have a huge impact. Ask Jamal Lewis how much he loves/d Lawrence Vickers. He has praised him multiple times, not only for his ability to block, but for his vision to know who to block. On this Browns team there are three players who would be worth a franchise tag: JT, Vickers, and Shaun Rogers. It's not like a franchise tag for a FB is real expensive.
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Quote:
That is not true at all. Blocking fullbacks have a huge impact. Ask Jamal Lewis how much he loves/d Lawrence Vickers. He has praised him multiple times, not only for his ability to block, but for his vision to know who to block. On this Browns team there are three players who would be worth a franchise tag: JT, Vickers, and Shaun Rogers. It's not like a franchise tag for a FB is real expensive.
Given the way Rubin is playing nose the right way, is Rogers still franchise worthy?
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To me, definitely. He makes an impact and gets double teamed more often than not. But like was being talked about elsewhere, it would be huge for us if Rubin could step up and we could put Rogers at end. He would be much more effective there.
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And then draft Suh and put him at the other end spot? 
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Legend
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Didn't tampa just get beat 26-3 at home by a Kellen-Clemens-lead new York jets team?
We're not getting suh, and we should start to get used to it.
On the bright side, we'll probably be picking early enough to get berry.
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I hope Berry does slip to us...but it looks like we will be drafting in the 5-10 range.....
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
if you look at the stats you will see that he really hasn't caught alot of passes or ran the ball much for that matter. He is still a blocking back and blocking backs are a dime a dozen.
Lining up two TEs could be as effective as having a FB or Hank in the backfield....
I'm not saying not to keep him, but franchise tag.? Seriously?
Yes. Seriously. Im a big time jokester but I wouldnt have said Franchise Vickers multiple times if I wasnt seriouse. Its not that far fetched at all. Franchising Vickers only means that the Browns have the only shot at signing him. Nobody will give the Browns 2 1st rounders to sign him away after being franchised. Its not like the Browns would even have to pay him much if he was franchised. He would get the average of the top 5 paid FBs. That cant be much more than $2million. Regardless of stats, Vickers deserves to be paid like the top 5 paid FBs.
So you say Vickers doesnt have the stats in rushing and receiving to be franchised. Hes a good blocker but blockers are a dime of dozen. One of the best blocking FBs make him one of the best out of the 32 teams. Not a dime a dozen. If you ask Lewis or any other offensive player or defensive player that has to go against him in practice, heck add the coaches, and they will tell you that Vickers is not a dime a dozen FB.
You are also using stats to back up your arguement in a offense led by Daboll calling the plays. Carthon knew how important Vickers and his multiple skills was but he tried too hard to design play for him. The Browns probably have the worst ranked HBs in the league. Can you name 5 teams with worse HBs than Cleveland and they are still getting decent amount of rushing yards with not much of a passing threat. Also, Vickers is Cribbs wingman in the wildcat. I dont think you are recognizing his blocks on those runs.
I also wish the Browns would put Vickers in on 3rd down situations. Harrison is said that he isnt getting the oppurtunities because of his lack of pass blocking. If that is true, I believe Harrisons pass blocking has improved thruout this season. Harrison is also another UFA that I dont want to see go. Especially with Lewis retiring and I dont know what contributions we will get out of Davis. For some reason, Harrison isnt getting his oppurtunities that has been frustarting some fans for the past 2 years (and past 2 coaches). I doubt Harrison gets a transition tag like Jamal White received.
You say "Lining up two TEs could be as effective as having a FB or Hank in the backfield...."  and you ask me "serioulsy?"
The 2 TE argument could be true, but some teams dont run that. And Hank in the backfield could be as effective as Vickers???? Maybe for one play on the goalline but thats it. Let me see the Browns try to make it the corner on a running play with Hank in the backfield. The only reason Hanked lined up as TE is because the right side of the o-line is horrible and injuries to the other TEs were mounting up before they signed Gaines and finally gave Moore a shot.
I also wonder if you fail to see Vickers contribution on specail teams.
Franchising him ensures he will be a Brown in 2010. There are too many holes to fill to allow Vickers to walk in FA. Even if you feel he dont need franchised, adding a differant FB will most likely not be an upgrade. It would also allow the Browns to not only ensure he is a Brown for 2010, but allow them to work out a long term deal without other teams having to bid for his services.
Im not sure what the average of the top 5 FBs are being paid, but Im guessing it wouldnt be much more than $2.5 million, if even that much. So Im saying Vickers, stats or no stats for a position that does the most pounding for NO STATS, Vickers deserves that money and it would not hurt the team at all financially. Cap or no cap.
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not all teams use a fullback
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Quote:
not all teams use a fullback
What is your point of saying that? Not to educate me because I already stated that one post before yours. Regardless, the Browns do and Vickers is the teams best option going foward.
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Legend
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I just wish he wouldn't visibly berate/show up the RBs not named Jamal Lewis. Not cool, Lawrence
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Legend
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Vickers is alright, I've liked him for awhile. In that video, when he's turned sideways to the camera he reminds me of Bubba on Forrest Gump with the bottom lip hangin'. Sorta sounds like him, too. 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I've told this story before, but I wanted to say it again, and it is somewhat relevant. At camp, while he was signing autographs, someone told Vickers to knock James Harrison on his butt. His response? "Oh, I will."
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Quote:
Quote:
not all teams use a fullback
What is your point of saying that? Not to educate me because I already stated that one post before yours. Regardless, the Browns do and Vickers is the teams best option going foward.
IMO a franchise tag is unnecessary if not preposterous.
Guess we will have to agree to disagrre.... 
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The Browns might sign Vickers to a contract before he he can even hit the market and franchising him might not even be an option.
A lot of fans, especially now that we run the 3-4, use the Steelers franchise as an example as the way things should be ran. Cowher led teams never invested much into the FB. But at least he had top tier players at a lot of other positions.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Didn't tampa just get beat 26-3 at home by a Kellen-Clemens-lead new York jets team?
We're not getting suh, and we should start to get used to it.
On the bright side, we'll probably be picking early enough to get berry.
dont' forget that St. Louis is now playing a QB who learned how to play the position from Ryan Leaf (his QB coach in college) because Bulger and Boller sustained "injuries"
good to see Leaf still knows how to teach 'em as his pupil put up 5INTs in his first day of NFL work.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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heh the grand irony is that the guy that drafted Null is the cvery same guy that drafted Leaf  p.s. Geek Humor Alert: How do you pick someone named Null and think that they'll provide you with anything
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
p.s. Geek Humor Alert: How do you pick someone named Null and think that they'll provide you with anything
I'd answer that, but my comment would be "void"
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lawrence Vickers is awesome.
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
