|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
heh the grand irony is that the guy that drafted Null is the cvery same guy that drafted Leaf 
You have to wonder how the pre-draft interview with him went....
Questions for Null from St.Louis:
1. Do you stink at QB as bad as Ryan Leaf?
2. Are you going to cost me my job if I draft you like your QB coach in college did when I drafted him?
3. You learned how to be a QB from Ryan Leaf....how on Earth do you expect to even be allowed inside an NFL stadium?
He must have had good answers for those questions.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
Quote:
I think he could step in a halfback if needed. He an above average pass catcher for a FB and I think he is better then a dine a dozen FB.
back to the full back topic, the above quote as well as the poster who mentioned how vickers tore it up at Colorado is the only reason I havent been worried about only carrying two game day RB's since Jamal went to IR. He could definetely step in as a ball carrier. Especially as the weather moves into real December weather.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Does anyone still think Vickers is a dime a dozen FB after watching Harrison get the Browns record for yards in a game? Ill give Harrison the credit for jumping the pile and hanging in there while taking some shots in the cold weather, but every run he had Vickers shut out a defender if he didnt knock him on his butt.
Vickers deserves alot of credit for todays game. Not as much as Cribbs and Harrison but almost.
I dont see how anybody that watches every game can use Vickers stats and not see how valuable he is to this team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Vickers does that every game.
Not exactly sure of the point you're trying to make ... ah hell, I know exactly where you are going.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Quote:
Does anyone still think Vickers is a dime a dozen FB after watching Harrison get the Browns record for yards in a game? Ill give Harrison the credit for jumping the pile and hanging in there while taking some shots in the cold weather, but every run he had Vickers shut out a defender if he didnt knock him on his butt.
Isn't that his job to do that?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Just as it's the left tackle's job to get a perfect block every time. Doesn't make it any less extraordinary.
And since I hate all the Browns' players, note how much I love Vickers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Does anyone still think Vickers is a dime a dozen FB after watching Harrison get the Browns record for yards in a game? Ill give Harrison the credit for jumping the pile and hanging in there while taking some shots in the cold weather, but every run he had Vickers shut out a defender if he didnt knock him on his butt.
Isn't that his job to do that?
But its how well how does it. So, turk, do you think Vickers is a dime a dozen FB?
What is your point?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Vickers is an amazing FB.
Wish he got carries at HB. With the ball, or without it, He's that good.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Yeah we should run some sweeps to the right with him. Maybe save it for 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.  I do really like him as a blocker, though. People say he can't be considered a good draft pick b/c he's a fb and they generally aren't taken b4 the 4th round but how many of our 5th-round picks were completely useless to the team? Heck, how many 3rd-rounders? Btw if I could have a secondary username it might be CarthonsGenius. BTW
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,079
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,079 |
Quote:
what has this guy done to deserve a tag?
I dunno what he may have done to deserve a tag, Line Judge... but here's what I've seen him do to deserve a new contract, at the very least:
I've seen him catch passes in the flat.
I've seen him catch passes in the flat, and run mf's over for yac.
I've seen him break tackles... 2 or 3 at a time, from time to time.
I've seen him vault over a defender to make it into the endzone.
I've seen him rumble as a carrier on a sweep for 8+ yards.
... and I've seen him absolutely blow UP elite LB's when he's blocking for a RB... all freakkin' Sunday, every freakkin' Sunday. Brotha don't no take plays off, ya hear me?
Check my posts, Dawgs... I'm forever on the daily quoting the same ol' line:
"I Love Me Some Lawrence Vickers."
___________________________
As a GM, one of the duties is to evaluate not just incoming talent, but also production of existing players. Players who can't measure up get replaced by those whom you draft. Servicable players get to live another year. Players who do everything that's asked of them, do it well, and embrace the team concept get re-signed.
Finding someone with Lawrence Vickers' skill set isn't a slam-dunk, by any means. When you have one in your stable already, you do what you can to keep him. When the player in question is a home-grown product from his rookie year, you honor that commitment with the commensurate rewards. Loyalty and service deserves the same.
One of my oft-repeated mantras regarding the Browns is that they haven't ever instilled a true culture within the team since The Return. Signing guys like Lawrence Vickers and Josh Cribbs (thanks. Phil Savage) is exactly how you do such a thing. Grow'em yourself. On YOUR field. "Fertilize" regularly ($). Reap bountiful harvests over the long haul.
This one, as in the case of Cribbs, is a no-brainer... give the Man his money.
He's earned it.
.02
p.s. It's not like we don't have the cap space to afford it, either. Besides, I'd rather re-up players like Josh Cribbs and Lawrence Vickers over guys like Brayleon 'Babydaddy' Edwards and Kellen Knievel any day. If I'm spending money, I'm always shopping for value...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74 |
Quote:
what has this guy done to deserve a tag?
http://www.nfl.com/players/lawrencevickers/profile?id=VIC642060
He's also a critical part of our kick returns. There is no reason not to franchise him if we can't resign him. Fullback is one of the only positions on the team that we don't need to fix right now, so why would we create another hole to fill this offseason with all of the ones we already have, regardless of how some claim it is easy to find a fullback. Also, he deserves top 5 fb money, wasn't he a probowl alternate last year? Stats are not the tell all sign to measure how good a player is, just take a look at DAs 2007 stats. Fullbacks any more are not asked to carry the ball and catch like they used to, just an added bonus that he has shown he can catch and run (he was the back up tailback at CU so that has to go for something). So looking at a fullbacks stats would be similar to looking at an offensive linemans to judge how good he is as they are in the game to block.
Go Browns!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Well I don't know why but I've been having silly debates with some posters for two years now trying to get them to believe how good Vickers is.
And I'll telly you all one thing. Somebody stated that Dieken's radio show (maybe some locals can varify this) that for the last two games the Browns have been running a Zone Blocking scheme.
Those of you who state...FB pffft just put any old TE there and you got the same thing.
Sorry no. In a Zone blocking scheme the FB has to have excellent vision and decisive on his cuts as the RB will always look to follow his lead first....and its pretty much what Harrison did this past Sunday and others last Thursday.
Being the go to RB in Colorodo - he comes with excellent vision and makes good decisions.
He is such a difference maker and a true FIELD LEADER...he can wake up and get the juices flowing from everyone if they just ain't flowing yet!!!
Good, good ball player. Hope he's a Brown for his career!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,079
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,079 |
I was a fan from almost Day One.
I was less than thrilled when the Browns released Terrelle Smith, so I watched his replacement. He didn't show me much for his first half-season, but by the end of his rookie year, I could see the kid getting it. Year Two- oh, baby! Great reads, great leads, and blocking as crisp and decisive as you'll see anywhere. He was a blast to watch early in his career... and he's only gotten better.
Hr. Holmgren: I know I don't have to tell you how to do your job, so I'll just wait for you to re-sign the inestimable Mr. Vickers to a long-term contract, then thank you profusely.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 553
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 553 |
Holmgren had Mack Strong in Seattle for years, that guy was pretty good, he never tried to replace him as far as i know, the guy retired at about 85 years old. I think Holmgren appreciates a good FB. 
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Holmgren had Mack Strong in Seattle for years, that guy was pretty good, he never tried to replace him as far as i know, the guy retired at about 85 years old. I think Holmgren appreciates a good FB.
also, remember Tom Rathman with the 49ers in the 80s....Holmgren likes him a fullback.
hey, for all we know, Vickers is the reason he decided to come to the Browns
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Besides the lunacy of suggesting that we waste our Franchise Tag on a fullback  I've stayed out of this thread, choosing to wait until Holmgren was truly in the fold before thinking about how Vickers fits into things.
Part of the WCO is STILL the implementation of the fullback, specifically a fullback who can run, block, and catch. To that end, Vickers becomes a very important piece to our offensive puzzle. I happen to think that Vickers is one of the best fullbacks in the league, and that if plugged into a WCO system, he becomes the kind of guy who'll earn pro-bowl votes because he can run a little, but can block and can catch.
I'm glad he's here. He'll be a big piece in helping implement our new offense.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,943
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,943 |
I certainly hope you aren't charging alot for the Rey Maualuga Browns jerseys considering he don't play for us. LOL, I hope they didn't cost alot to make either.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74 |
Quote:
Besides the lunacy of suggesting that we waste our Franchise Tag on a fullback
No one besides DJackson would even be remotely close to worth the franchise tag, so I don't really think it would be a "waste" of a franchise tag when there is no one else to even consider for it, but glad to hear you agree that vickers should stick around 
Go Browns!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
If you watch the Josh Cribbs press conference ... Josh Cribbs loves that man Vickers. He said that Vickers was a VERY important piece of the return game .... besides opening up big holes for Harrison. Also, the NFL Gameday highlights did a "coach em up" with Harrison and Vickers. Watch it and see how important Vickers is to our run game. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highl...iefs-highlights
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,302
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,302 |
I saw Mooch's Coach Em Up on Vickers... it was pretty cool.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,879
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,879 |
You wanna know who else had a hand in the return game.... Harrison, he was leading the way for Cribbs on one of those two returns last sunday...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
leading the way...as in running or actually stopping and making a block...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
For anyone thinking a franchise tag is a waste, its a waste not to use it if it means losing a top player at any position. If you dont use it on Vickers, there is nobody else worth using it on. I dont think jackson is worth top 5 LB money. Vickers is.
I think its going to happen. If Im wrong, as long as they re-sign him, then I dont care. I think he is a very important player on this team and would rather see it used on him then letting him walk.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
I said it was a waste before and it would be.
Since I've explained it before, tell me what point there is to slapping him with the franchise tag when he's only going to be a restricted free agent at the end of the year.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
To further restrict him?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
This year Vickers has 8 receptions for 27 yards. He has not had one rushing attempt. His career ypc is 2.7 Not exactly someone another team game plans for. Charles Ali blocked quite well and was good on special teams. Should we try to keep Vickers going forward? Yes, if we are using a fullback. Should we tag him?  I'll say it again. Blocking fullbacks are a dime a dozen. Supply exceeds demand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
You're lucky it's Christmas! 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
maybe ddub could find a straight jacket and ball and chain under his tree to even further restrict Vickers....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
I think what Toad is eluding to is regardless of a CBA or not. Vickers, DQ and Harrison all fall under the RFA requirements. If no CBA it extends out from 3 year players to 5. But all three are finishing their 3rd season and fall under the RFA requirements.
We will make TENDERS hopefully for all three if we cannot get them signed by March 1st. There is no reason to utilize the Franchise tag on any of them.
We could make the higher tenders which would garnish a 1st n 3rd round pick if anyone signs them. I really don't think anyone would even blink about signing Vickers an excellent FB for a 1st n 3rd round compensation.
Also I believe if Franchised there is no distinction for FB and he would be classed as a RB and get top 5 RB avg. salary which is rediculous for a FB.
I think the system is wrong and needs to be changed in that regard. OL is worse...OTs make the big money (specifically the LTs) but if you want to franchise a Center you got to avg the top 5 salaries of OL which are all top Left Tackles...that should not be.
FB should be FB...OG should be OG and Center should be Center.
But Toads comments are justifiable - Vickers will be an RFA regardless of the situation of a CBA. There are tenders available at different values for the team to adjust the compensation. Obviously we won't use the low tender and lose him for a 6th rounder - of course we could just match the offer also. But we would probably make the high tender. And negotiate our own new contract.
No need for the franchise tag. For any of those three as we got the RFA.
I hope not...but I can only guess the first Franchise tag we will use will be for Joe Thomas - we got to sign him up long term! thats not for a couple of years still.
Maybe Dawson???
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Blocking full backs are no where near a dime a dozen. Running ones are. There's a Brian Leonard, a Jacob Hester, or a Toby Gehrart in each draft. Good luck finding a fullback who can block half as well as Vickers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
By the time Dawson hits the open market he will be, what, 37 years old?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Nowadays a kicker could sustain a long career as long as he maintains conditioning and leg strength. Not saying it would happen...hopefully we will have a kicker in waiting by then. But it is possible that you would have a kicker for 5 more years. WE are in Playoff runs and he's automatic for anything 45 and shorter...I want him. Betcha the Cowboys would give a first rounder plus right now for him
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
A two tight end formation has a much viability and why not put a RB number on a nimble 270 lb. guard's jersey and call him a fullback? Ali did well during his stint here and right now he is unemployed. Supply and demand.......... I have said all I am going to on this matter No tag for a blocking fullback........ 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Well if we lose Vickers....we can always turn Hank Fraley into a Fullback  ....he seems to be playing every position out there...LOL....What do you say Danielle...would he be up for it????...LMAO!!!!!!
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
1st rounder for Dawson? Sold  We have been lucky to have some VG kickers . Groza Cockroft Bahr some other guy that went to the Sh@t birds Dawson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Don't forget the LAST of the straight on kickers in Mark Mosely (come on.... Dble OT win vs Jets)
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Danielle could practice throwing passes to Hank in the back yard. We would need to change Hank's number.
How about # 32 ???
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Are you serious? That makes zero sense.
You think a 270 pound lineman has anywhere near the vision or agility to make the blocks needed? It's not even close.
A two tight end set doesn't have a fullback clearing the way and taking care of guys who break through the blockers. Jamal Lewis has said multiple times that there is nothing more crucial to a running back's success than a good fullback. IIRC, he bought Vickers a big gift after '07.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Danielle could practice throwing passes to Hank in the back yard.
Of course to make sure that he is REALLY ready, she's going to have to throw some high and wide, some 2 seconds late, and some 100 MPH at his feet.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lawrence Vickers is awesome.
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
