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Petey,, this is what I found... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/15/AR2009061502806.html Quote:
NFL Expands Rooney Rule To Cover Front-Office Hires
By Mark Maske
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 16, 2009
The NFL has extended its minority interviewing rule to include openings for general manager jobs and equivalent front-office positions, in addition to head coaching vacancies.
The league made the announcement yesterday. The move had been expected after NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said at a set of owners' meetings last month in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., that he planned to expand the rule.
Under the new rule, any team seeking to hire a senior football operations official for its front office must interview at least one minority candidate.
"The discussion at the league meeting identified the strong reasons for taking this step, which in large part simply confirms a recommended practice that clubs have voluntarily embraced," Goodell said in a written statement released by the NFL. "The recommendation also recognizes that this process has worked well in the context of head coaches, and that clubs have deservedly received considerable positive recognition for their efforts in this respect."
The rule previously had required each club with a head coaching vacancy to interview at least one minority candidate.
That provision widely is known as the Rooney Rule after Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney, the chairman of the league's workplace diversity committee, and was credited by many observers for the recent gains in diversity the league has made in its head coaching ranks.
The Fritz Pollard Alliance, the group formed to promote diversity in hiring at all levels in the NFL, had pressed in recent years for the league to extend its minority interviewing requirement to key front-office jobs. But NFL officials until recently had resisted making that move, instead asking teams to follow the guideline voluntarily.
The league indicated the minority interviewing rule will not apply to a case in which a team's top front-office job is held or filled by the franchise's owner or a member of his or her family, or in a case in which a team has an existing contractual obligation to promote a member of its front-office staff.
According to the league, Goodell also urged teams to interview a diverse slate of candidates for other vacant front-office jobs.
Ok, what I'm getting out of this is positions such as GM (or a generally accepted title that means the same thing) and HC are covered under this. Doesn't seem to mean that anything higher than that is..
So, if Holmgren is hired and his first job it to get a GM,, then it would, I believe, mean he's gotta interview a minority candidate before hiring anyone.
This begs the question,, has Seattle interviewed a minority candidate for the GM position?
Anyway, it sounds as if Cleveland can hire him without regard to the Rooney Rule... Appearences can be deceiving however 
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The Browns could have interviewed Dawn or Fred Nance and taken care of the rooney rule.
Holmgreen brought his agent. That usually doesnt happen unless things are really really close.
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Quote:
Anyway, it sounds as if Cleveland can hire him without regard to the Rooney Rule... Appearences can be deceiving however
Here is the key for me....
The league indicated the minority interviewing rule will not apply to a case in which a team's top front-office job is held or filled by the franchise's owner or a member of his or her family, or in a case in which a team has an existing contractual obligation to promote a member of its front-office staff.
It could be said Lerner is giving up a role he holds in having direct power over the GM/coach.
This would also indicate to me a GM will be hired so it provides a buffer between the hiring of Holmgren beyond the parameters of the Rooney rule, and abiding by the rule when a GM is hired.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The Browns could have interviewed Dawn or Fred Nance and taken care of the rooney rule.
Holmgreen brought his agent. That usually doesnt happen unless things are really really close.
Chief Legal Counsel doesn't seem to be a position where the Rooney Rule applies.. not sure,, but it sure doesn't seem to..
As for his agent, Grossi made that same point. Schfeter on ESPN is still putting his money on Holmgren going to Seattle because his family is there and owns a home there... maybe.. but I'm hanging my hat on us having a TOP FOOTBALL GUY JOB.. that doesn't appear to be the case in Seattle...
I'm hoping thats the difference... 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Quote:
Quote:
The Browns could have interviewed Dawn or Fred Nance and taken care of the rooney rule.
Holmgreen brought his agent. That usually doesnt happen unless things are really really close.
Chief Legal Counsel doesn't seem to be a position where the Rooney Rule applies.. not sure,, but it sure doesn't seem to..
Read the rule. It states GM or equivalent type positions. In other words, football related positions.
Chief Counsel isn't a football position. It is a organizational position.
Lerner can hire who he wants without getting NFL approval. Same goes for office manager or chief grill cook.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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didn't that guy paul brown have success in cleveland with the wco?  it obviously wasen't called that, but its what it was... sure it was a different time...but he basically invented it no?
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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so,,,,,,, your saying I'm right when I said it didn't seem to apply?  Ya know,, you could have just said that...might have been easier 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Chief grill cook,...Where can I apply ?  Bet Holmgren can eat, too.
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so,,,,,,, your saying I'm right when I said it didn't seem to apply?
Ya know,, you could have just said that...might have been easier
I could have but then that wouldn't have been correct. It really sounded like you didn't know what you were talking about so I wanted to steer you on the correct path.
No Thanks necessary. Consider it a public service. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c Quote:
Holmgren is discussing joining the Browns as the team's football leader, the ''czar'' of football, for lack of a better word.
It's a job he has not held in his career, but he brings strong credentials.
I'm not knocking the idea of bringing Holmgren in here, but it kind of surprises me that so many who screamed for "experience" at their perspective jobs seem so giddy about getting a "rookie GM/football czar/ President of Football Operations". Cause bottom line that is what he'd be.
Many great football minds have not been suited for this in the past and very few have. But as always regardless of the outcome let's hope for the best.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I could have but then that wouldn't have been correct. It really sounded like you didn't know what you were talking about so I wanted to steer you on the correct path.
wasn't a matter of me not knowing what I was talking about, it was a matter of simply being unsure... But thanks for the attempted swipe at me.. Very clever,, but not at all effective...
Another story on I think the Fox Network is this one... Note the bolded comments about Holmgren being scheduled to speak with Mangini....
Quote:
Holmgren meets with Browns for a second dayAssociated Press
add this RSS email print
Updated: December 15, 2009, 1:58 PM EST 28 comments
CLEVELAND (AP) - The Cleveland Browns may have finally found their leader.
Former Seattle and Green Bay coach Mike Holmgren, with one Super Bowl title and success brimming from an impressive NFL resume, is spending his second day meeting with the Browns about running their football operations.
Holmgren arrived Monday after being invited by Cleveland owner Randy Lerner. He was again at team headquarters in Berea, Ohio, on Tuesday along with his agent, Bob LaMonte. Holmgren is not scheduled to leave Tuesday, a sign that could indicate the sides are working out details on a contract.
Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz said Holmgren was scheduled to meet with coach Eric Mangini, but did not know if that meeting has taken place.
The length of Holmgren's stay - and LaMonte's inclusion - points to his strong interest in taking over the Browns, who have struggled since returning to the league as an expansion team in 1999. Cleveland has had four coaches, just two winning seasons and one playoff appearance in 11 years.
Lerner has been solely focused on finding someone to fix his failing franchise. Last month, he said he wanted to hire a "serious, credible leader" to run the Browns.
Holmgren fits that criteria.
He appeared in 12 postseasons and three Super Bowls before stepping down after last season with more wins than any other active coach. The 61-year-old Holmgren, who for a four-season span served as both Seattle's coach and general manager, is a proven football authority.
He took a sabbatical after the 2008 season to spend more time with his family. Holmgren has been itching to get back into pro football, and the Browns would be a new challenge.
He recently told a Seattle radio station he found Cleveland's front-office job appealing.
"There's something in my personality, too, that taking on those types of projects, that kind of gets me going. But there's a lot of work to do," he said. "The important thing, going into any organization is that all of the principles, all of the decision makers are pointed in the same direction, with the same motives, the same desires, and then you have a chance."
Holmgren spent 10 years with Seattle and seven with the Packers, leading them to a Super Bowl title in 1996. The Seahawks made the playoffs six times under Holmgren, including their only Super Bowl appearance when they lost to Pittsburgh to end the 2005 season.
He was believed to be interested in returning to the Seahawks, who relieved Holmgren of his GM duties after the 2002 season. Seattle is looking for a GM following Tim Ruskell's resignation on Dec. 3, and Holmgren could be using the Browns as leverage to get a deal with his former team.
It's not known what impact the hiring of a football "czar" will have on Mangini's future. The Browns have struggled in Mangini's first season, which has included lopsided losses, players grumbling about practice methods and fines, and the firing of general manager George Kokinis.
The Browns (2-11) are coming off a 13-6 upset of Pittsburgh and play in Kansas City on Sunday.
Mangini has said he would be open to Lerner bringing in someone to oversee the team's personnel decisions. On Monday, Mangini said he and Lerner have not discussed the search for that person.
"That hasn't really been the focal point of our conversations," he said. "It's more a function of the things that we're trying to do week in and week out. We'll visit some more and I'm sure we'll see where that is."
Lerner recently hired Fred Nance as the team's general counsel. Nance was one of five finalists to succeed former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Quote:
j/c
Quote:
Holmgren is discussing joining the Browns as the team's football leader, the ''czar'' of football, for lack of a better word.
It's a job he has not held in his career, but he brings strong credentials.
I'm not knocking the idea of bringing Holmgren in here, but it kind of surprises me that so many who screamed for "experience" at their perspective jobs seem so giddy about getting a "rookie GM/football czar/ President of Football Operations". Cause bottom line that is what he'd be.
Many great football minds have not been suited for this in the past and very few have. But as always regardless of the outcome let's hope for the best.
jmho
Holmgren is not a rookie GM. He has experience in being a GM and coaching football. He is the perfect person to run an organization, IMO.
you had a good run Hank.
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Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz said Holmgren was scheduled to meet with coach Eric Mangini, but did not know if that meeting has taken place.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall in THAT meeting. 
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like the rumor like most people, but i really fear that he's just using the browns to get seattle to give him the max.
guess we'll find out soon apparently holmgreen wants to have a job by christmas.
but just the whole doing this in public (at farenheit), just makes me think he's doing this to get more out of the seahawks.
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Oh, to be a fly on the wall in THAT meeting.
If only Coach B were here to give us the whole "true" story!!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Same here. I'll believe his interest in Cleveland if/when he signs a contract with the Browns. Otherwise, he's using us to drive the Seattle price up.
I don't blame him for it....just sucks for us.
The only thing that makes me think we have a shot is that Lerner wouldn't have wanted to bring him in knowing the media relations hit having missed his first choice, again (MH said no last year too). He must really think we've got a shot at him. I don't think Randy would have wanted anyone to know he's here if this was a low probability signing.
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nrtu
Sometimes, getting to know what someone is like is much easier in a public setting than a stuffy office or boardroom.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Same here. I'll believe his interest in Cleveland if/when he signs a contract with the Browns. Otherwise, he's using us to drive the Seattle price up.
I don't blame him for it....just sucks for us.
The only thing that makes me think we have a shot is that Lerner wouldn't have wanted to bring him in knowing the media relations hit having missed his first choice, again (MH said no last year too). He must really think we've got a shot at him. I don't think Randy would have wanted anyone to know he's here if this was a low probability signing.
2 things that really stuck out to me was the fact that he had this meeting at a very public place and that he also set a deadline for himself (like i said, christmas) you put 2 and 2 together and it's a little obvious.
there are some things that could point to him coming to cleveland, with him wanting to return to the midwest, as well as the fact that these guys are so competitive and are ego driven that a project like the browns would be something they'd want to take on, but i'm with you, i will buy more into this when it becomes a reality.
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I think it's pretty strange that a person that is a candidate for a job is talking to the head coach of a team. Especially to a coach who is pretty much the GM right. So Mangini is talking to the guy who might take part of his job and who might fire him. Holmgren is talking to the guy who's job he will taking and a guy he might fire.
I just hope they are meeting so Holmgren can feel Mangini out and so Mangini can feel Holmgren out.
This whole situation is just strange.
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Quote:
but just the whole doing this in public (at farenheit), just makes me think he's doing this to get more out of the seahawks.
Wonder if it was Lerner that requested or Suggested Farenheit as a place to have dinner.. he has as much to gain from the exposure as Holmgren does,. maybe more.
#GMSTRONG
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Maybe they were just hungry.
Is this Fahrenheit place any good?
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Quote:
Quote:
I wonder how much ownership of the team LaMonte is asking for
Someone's getting a lump of coal in his stocking this year!
I'll add it to my vast collection
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Maybe they were just hungry.
Is this Fahrenheit place any good?
I've not eaten there, but the reputation is pretty good..
#GMSTRONG
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Hmm I dont think you would meet with coach unless it was a done deal and you are letting the coach know where he stands. As in you might want to start making some calling about employment
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Quote:
This whole situation is just strange.
It's not Strange..........Remember....It's a Process......
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Hmm I dont think you would meet with coach unless it was a done deal and you are letting the coach know where he stands. As in you might want to start making some calling about employment
It's way to early to jump to the conclusion.. but it is a logical conclusion.
Agent is in town with him for Day 2.
Met openly in the public for lunch after the initial bit being fairly hushed... now even Day 2 is publicly talked about.
He's meeting with the coach.
All signs point to this being for real.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm almost afraid to agree.. might jinx it
#GMSTRONG
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Hmm I dont think you would meet with coach unless it was a done deal and you are letting the coach know where he stands. As in you might want to start making some calling about employment
That's sorta what I'm thinking.
Some people are saying this is all a bluff to use as leverage for the Seattle job. But I don't think so anymore, this is going a little too far, too much meeting. This is probably really happening.
And he'll prob evaluate Mangini for the rest of the season and decide what's up after that........... Great news, I hope he takes a good look at our scouting staff and makes sure we are covered. We do have a few picks.
Signs are pointing to Holmgren running our show though in my opinion. And it sounds good to me........
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I'd post James Walkers' comments but we can't post blogs 
You'll just have to trust me when he says there aren't any indications that Holmgren is scheduled to leave on day 3, either.
I'm still skeptical because I don't believe we've interviewed any minority candidates.
I suppose Lerner could lie and say he interviewed Jim Brown. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'd post James Walkers' comments but we can't post blogs
You'll just have to trust me when he says there aren't any indications that Holmgren is scheduled to leave on day 3, either.
I'm still skeptical because I don't believe we've interviewed any minority candidates.
I suppose Lerner could lie and say he interviewed Jim Brown.
I read the same thing by a local reporter...maybe I can find it...
you had a good run Hank.
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I'd post James Walkers' comments but we can't post blogs
James Walkers comments from his blog would be his blog on ESPN, which is considered a reputable source, and thus allowed.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm still skeptical because I don't believe we've interviewed any minority candidates.
I'm not sure that rule applies for Team President positions.
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It should.
I'm hoping this is for real, and signs indicate it is.
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Here's Walker's blog: Mike Holmgren was in Cleveland Monday and will continue meeting with Browns officials on Tuesday. The initial reaction to Mike Holmgren meeting with the Cleveland Browns to discuss their vacant front-office position is simple. It's about time. Why this meeting didn't take place weeks earlier is somewhat baffling. Holmgren flat out said he was interested in Cleveland, and the former Seattle Seahawks and Green Bay Packers coach fits the criteria of a "credible" leader Browns owner Randy Lerner discussed in November. If Cleveland plans to make a hire before the end of the regular season, Holmgren is probably the team's only choice. A majority of other qualified candidates are working hard for their teams during this stretch run, and many will be involved in the playoffs, which doesn't help Cleveland (2-11). As the Browns continue to talk with Holmgren, here are some key questions that probably are being discussed: * Does Holmgren want complete power to run the organization? That includes final say over the roster and the ability to fire and hire coaches. * What are Holmgren's thoughts on Browns coach Eric Mangini? Can the two coexist, or would Holmgren want someone else to coach Cleveland next season? * Where does Seattle fit in this equation? The Seahawks have a similar position open that Holmgren is interested in. Is he using the Browns to create leverage, or does Holmgren legitimately want to work in Cleveland? It should be an interesting few weeks for the Browns. Holmgren would be a solid hire for Cleveland if the team can close the deal. link
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Hmmmmmm................Gotta find the story where it said Holmgren wasn't leaving yet...............I thought it was Walker's blog. Obviously not. I'll find the story.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Mike Holmgren was in Cleveland Monday and will continue meeting with Browns officials on Tuesday.
Continue meeting..interesting..if he's meeting with all FO people including Manpolen..thats more than just casual..but again I have to see him signed and delivered before I take anything more than that.
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It should
It doesn't apply,, go to the top of this page,, look at my post to Petey,, there is an article there,, you can read it to see for yourself...
#GMSTRONG
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Even if the "Rooney Rule" applied, how does anyone know that the requirement hasn't been met? When Jim Brown mentioned Lerner meeting with a "great football mind", maybe he meant himself, lol!? Besides, can anyone name even a single other name that has, for certain, been interviewed for the position? Contrary to what the reporters may want you to believe, just because it hasn't been reported doesn't mean it hasn't happened
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Holmgren would fall under a GM equivalent job, so it would apply. 
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Found the article. Thank you............Tom Withers  Quote:
Mike Holmgren visits Browns for second day in row
By TOM WITHERS (AP) – 39 minutes ago
CLEVELAND — The Cleveland Browns may have finally found their leader. Former Seattle and Green Bay coach Mike Holmgren, with one Super Bowl title and success brimming from an impressive NFL resume, is spending his second day meeting with the Browns about running their football operations.
Holmgren arrived Monday after being invited by Cleveland owner Randy Lerner. He was again at team headquarters in Berea, Ohio, on Tuesday along with his agent, Bob LaMonte. Holmgren is not scheduled to leave Tuesday, a sign that could indicate the sides are working out details on a contract.
Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz said Holmgren was scheduled to meet with coach Eric Mangini, but did not know if that meeting has taken place.
The length of Holmgren's stay — and LaMonte's inclusion — points to his strong interest in taking over the Browns, who have struggled since returning to the league as an expansion team in 1999. Cleveland has had four coaches, just two winning seasons and one playoff appearance in 11 years.
Lerner has been solely focused on finding someone to fix his failing franchise. Last month, he said he wanted to hire a "serious, credible leader" to run the Browns.
Holmgren fits that criteria.
He appeared in 12 postseasons and three Super Bowls before stepping down after last season with more wins than any other active coach. The 61-year-old Holmgren, who for a four-season span served as both Seattle's coach and general manager, is a proven football authority.
He took a sabbatical after the 2008 season to spend more time with his family. Holmgren has been itching to get back into pro football, and the Browns would be a new challenge.
He recently told a Seattle radio station he found Cleveland's front-office job appealing.
"There's something in my personality, too, that taking on those types of projects, that kind of gets me going. But there's a lot of work to do," he said. "The important thing, going into any organization is that all of the principles, all of the decision makers are pointed in the same direction, with the same motives, the same desires, and then you have a chance."
Holmgren spent 10 years with Seattle and seven with the Packers, leading them to a Super Bowl title in 1996. The Seahawks made the playoffs six times under Holmgren, including their only Super Bowl appearance when they lost to Pittsburgh to end the 2005 season.
He was believed to be interested in returning to the Seahawks, who relieved Holmgren of his GM duties after the 2002 season. Seattle is looking for a GM following Tim Ruskell's resignation on Dec. 3, and Holmgren could be using the Browns as leverage to get a deal with his former team.
It's not known what impact the hiring of a football "czar" will have on Mangini's future. The Browns have struggled in Mangini's first season, which has included lopsided losses, players grumbling about practice methods and fines, and the firing of general manager George Kokinis.
The Browns (2-11) are coming off a 13-6 upset of Pittsburgh and play in Kansas City on Sunday.
Mangini has said he would be open to Lerner bringing in someone to oversee the team's personnel decisions. On Monday, Mangini said he and Lerner have not discussed the search for that person.
"That hasn't really been the focal point of our conversations," he said. "It's more a function of the things that we're trying to do week in and week out. We'll visit some more and I'm sure we'll see where that is."
Lerner recently hired Fred Nance as the team's general counsel. Nance was one of five finalists to succeed former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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