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I think it's laughable that you bring this situation up. With a guy like Brees at QB and the WRs he has they don't need to run the football as much as most teams anyway.
Bell and Thomas each have over 140 carries and Bush has 63... so even when they do run the ball, it's not with Bush all that often.
yebat' Putin
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Well, Harrison might have made that position a bit more of a positive, but I still like Spiller a LOT.
He has elite speed, makes moves inside a small area, can run inside or outside.
In addition he is a legit downfield reciever. He has been doing a lot more than just catching dumpoffs and screens. This is a player that can be moved around to create mismatches all over the field. A true dynamic scoring weapon.
I like your mock, especially Iupati and Rolle. Too bad everybody watches Boise now, or Kyle Wilson would be available late. He's pretty good.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Here's how I see it going down (with the current order, though I'm not sure if Tampa Bay or the Rams are picking 1st):
1. St. Louis: QB
2. Tampa Bay: Suh
3. Detroit: McCoy/Okung
4. Browns: Berry
I hope your right because that is a very possible scenerio. Detroit helpout out their offense last draft with a franchise QB and TE, and already have one of the top WRs in Calvin. This year, i think the whole NFL world knows they are going defense.
This draft is filled with good safeties. So hopefully Detroit goes for someone not named Berry. Its possible that they look to trade down since they have so many high priced young players.
I wouldnt mind the Browns using 2 picks on Safty in the upcoming draft. Replace Pool, move Furrey back to the offense, Adams can play Nickle, and Toledos Barry Church late in the draft will replace Sorenson.
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USC is playing Boston College on December 26th. It looks like Joe McKnight will miss the game. If you watch the game keep an eye on Allen Bradford, he will be the one running for TD's the whole game. And the whole USC offense will run much more smoothly because they aren't trying to force the ball to McKnight.
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j/c
The only RB I am interested in is Ryan Mathews. Other than that, I'm not enamored with any RB that's not a first rounder.
you had a good run Hank.
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With Holmgren here I think the odds of us acquiring a new QB went up by about 70%. With the WCO I think Holmgreen would favor Bradford.
Seriously I can see it going down like this:
St. Louis: N. Suh
Tampa Bay: Eric Berry
Detroit: Russell Okung
Cleveland:
Then that leaves us choosing between, Clausen (who i hate), Bradford (who I sorta like), McCoy(if I didn't get my hope for Suh and will depend if we switch to a 4-3), McClain (very few LB's go top 5)
Suh is virtually gone for consideration for us, so the best realistic case scenario would be (Tampa isn't going to pass on Suh):
St Louis: Bradford or Clausen
Tampa: N. Suh
Detriot: Russell Okung/McCoy
Cleveland: Eric Berry
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I would like to point out that team that Mike Holmgren has been involved with in the NFL has ever drafted a QB in the 1st round.
Holmgren was with the San Francisco 49ers from 1986 to 1991. They already had Joe Montana and traded a 2nd and 4th round pick for Steve Young in 1987.
Holmgren was with the Green Bay Packers from 1992 to 1998. They traded a 1st round pick to get Brett Favre.
Holmgren was with the Seattle Seahawks from 1999 to 2008. They traded their 1st and 3rd round picks to the Packers for Matt Hasselbeck and their 1st and 7th round picks.
I know that Holmgren wasn't the person in charge of making picks for the 49ers or Packers. But I think it's safe to say he learned some things from Bill Walsh and Ron Wolf.
With that said, what he might have learned is that when you identify a player who you want to be your franchise QB, you go get them. Hopefully that player is already on the roster, if not I fully expect Holmgren to go get his QB this year.
(I just really really really really hope that player isn't Jimmy Clausen.)
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Suh is virtually gone for consideration for us, so the best realistic case scenario would be (Tampa isn't going to pass on Suh):
St Louis: Bradford or Clausen
Tampa: N. Suh
Detriot: Russell Okung/McCoy
Cleveland: Eric Berry
In going through this,I am wondering who would the Browns have rated higher on their board,Berry or MaClain?
A hammer ILB would be thing the team has lacked..when Bowens was moved there after the injuries he was filling holes unlike Davis/Barton/and any other ILB the Browns have had.
What they could do is leave Bowens there for one more year and go a different route..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/22/09 10:08 AM.
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j/c
The only RB I am interested in is Ryan Mathews. Other than that, I'm not enamored with any RB that's not a first rounder.
(though Dwyer might drop out of the 1st and I like him too)
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Would anyone be satisfied staying w/ Harrison (duh), seeing what we have in James Davis, and keeping Jennings as well? Or is everybody thinking a RB definitely needs to be drafted? If we go RB, I like this guy beyond the 2nd round . . . Anthony Dixon, Mississippi State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 240.
Projected 40 Time: 4.56.
Projected Round (2010): 2-4.
11/7/09: A powerful runner having a great year, Anthony Dixon has rushed for 1,001 yards and nine touchdowns in eight games. He can also catch the ball out of the backfield.
2/6/09: Anthony Dixon compiled 869 yards and seven touchdowns as a junior. He also registered 20 catches for 117 yards and two more scores.
7/25/08: Anthony Dixon is a huge power back who moves pretty well at his impressive size. He rushed for 1,066 yards and 14 touchdowns (3.7 YPC) and also caught 14 passes out of the backfield. As long as he's not super slow at the combine, he'll be a mid-round pick.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2008P.php
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Just wondering what the team might look like if we switch to a 4-3. Here's a stab, with the current roster (per nfl.com), though there's a couple guys I wasn't sure whether to put at DE or OLB (Bowens, Wimbley, Roth, ...)
DE Roth, Benard
DT Rogers, Rubin, Coleman, Schaefferling
DT Williams, Mosely, Smith, Robinson
DE Bowens, Veikune
OLB Barton, Trusnick
MLB Jackson, Costanzo, Maiava, Harrison
OLB Wimbley, Hall
Based on this, I did a quick mock assuming we'd move to 4-3 and WCO.
Draft Picks
1) Eric Berry, SS (Tenn) - what can be said that hasn't been said
2) Colt McCoy, QB (Texas) - accurate, quick decision maker, mobile, all the makings of a good WCO QB
3a) Jason Pierre-Paul, DE (South Florida) - I've seen mocks with him going anywhere from late first to late 4th. good pass rusher with great speed. raw
3b) Chad Jones, FS (LSU) - Taylor Mays without the hype, unbelieveably athletic, raw
4) Ed Dickson, TE (Oregon) - watch this guy in the Rose Bowl, good blocker, good hands, athletic, with average speed
5a) Devin McCourty, CB (Rutgers)
5b) Justin Boren, OG (Ohio State)
5c) Sam Young, OT (Notre Dame)
6a) Sam Acho, OLB (Texas)
6b) Cameron Sheffield, OLB (Troy)
7) James Rogers, WR (Oregon State)
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i understand that Holmgren has always had the 4-3 in his stops...he's also focused mostly on offense though.
i am hoping that we stick with the 3-4 because we have ZERO DE's for the 4-3. it would be ugly.....our OLB's aren't big/strong enough to play DE and our DTs are too big, slow.
DE is the most important position in the front7 for a 4-3 defense to be successful (IMO)....and we would be sorely lacking in both starters and depth.
Matt Roth goes from steal to marginal SOLB. Maiava and D'Qwell are both WOLB. No real ILB on our team (probably put DQ there for now).
I am NOT a fan of making that switch. It makes our DL a weakness...and LBs still a weakness. No thanks.
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Is there a difference between drafting a QB in the 1st round and trading your first round pick for a QB? If you read what I wrote I said acquire a QB. That could be draft, FA, or trade. However, if we intend to draft one I see bradford as the most likely candidate.
Also I hope we stay away from Jimmah Clausen as well.
Go Browns!!
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The difference is a qb already in the NFL Is more of a known quantity.
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I kind of disagree on that assessment. I think our personnel is much better suited for a 4-3.
Williams has the flexibility to play DE in the 3-4 but at 320 LBS, he was great as a 4-3 DT in Green Bay.
The same with Rogers in Detroit. When he's no longer a true two gap player, it gives him the ability to really disrupt things. Instead of gobbling up space he's wreaking havoc as a penetrating tackle.
Put Wimbley's hand back down on the ground as a weak side end, draft a strong side DE with one of our 1st two picks and that's a pretty formidable front 4.
When you have that kind of size inside, you can get away with having some lighter, more athletic ends.
if we moved to a 4-3 and our draft shook out something like this:
1.) S Eric Berry / DE Derrick Morgan
2.) OLB Sean Witherspoon, / OLB Eric Norwood / DE Brandon Graham
Our defense would actually look fairly competent.
Graham might be a pipe-dream in the 2nd but some scouts might drop him down the board because he doesn't have "ideal size" for a DE.
I MIGHT also give DE Carlos Dunlap a look as well, even with the DUI. Very rarely do you find a guy that big and that athletic. Would have to be sure with someone like him but if you feel like it's a one time mistake, I think he's in the discussion.
But a DL of Williams, Rogers, Wimbley and a Draft Pick isn't exactly a weak d-line.
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I agree on Williams and Rogers, but wimbley has a hard enough time getting to the qb while the LT had to worry about a 310# DE. We'd need 2 ends.
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We would have to upgrade the secondary..
In the 3-4, the LB's can help with coverage. in a 4-3... there are so many holes in the open field. We would have to spend the majority of our picks on defense to for the 4-3 to work.
But.. I don't know. they both can work.
I just prefer the 3-4 myself.
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So what you're saying is that they are going to trade a 1st round pick for a QB instead of drafting one? 
Seriously, that's why I said somewhere in all these threads that the possibility of trading for Hasselbeck is a serious consideration, especially if the new regime goes away from the WCO.
I don't really know that we have enough of a track record from Holmgren to say he will or won't draft a QB. He didn't have any say in the acquisition of Steve Young. Favre was Ron Wolfe's move. So the only move to evaluate was the acquisition of Hasselbeck, who was a developmental QB that Holmgren liked from his Green Bay days.
It's hard to say what Holmgren will do based on history, because there's virtually no history to draw conclusions from.
I think as of right now any QB-scenario is in play. We could keep Quinn as the uncontested starter next year (highly improbable) we could bring in a veteran to compete with him (much more likely) we could draft one with a non-first round to study for a year while Quinn gets one last chance (also possible) or we could wipe the slate clean at a position full of bums and take one in the 1st, starting him from day one (also possible).
The big thing to watch in the draft is going to be Bradford's shoulder. McCoy is too short to be a top-10 guy. He's listed at 6'2 but I have my doubts. I didn't know it at the time but was next to him at a bar in downtown Austin one weekend. When I got told who he was, I turned and sized him up (yeah, I was drunk. Wouldn't we all do that? ). He didn't look the least bit taller than I am, and I'm not quite 6'2. Yeah, Young was 6'1 but he's a once in a lifetime guy. If Bradford isn't our guy, McCoy comes into play in the 2nd round, unless the Deadskins go after him, in which case trading for or signing a veteran comes into play. Like it or not, a guy like Campbell is in play, as he'd be the best veteran on the market. People can say what they want, but he has an 87 rating on the year behind a pathetic offensive line that's had him sacked 38 times in 14 games. The only other options are over-the-hill's, never-has-been's, or never-was's. Kerry Collins, Charlie Batch, Tarvaris Jackson, etc etc.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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jc...
I wasn't really a big fan of this guy.. but I just watched a Colt McCoy highlight on youtube, and I think I just changed my mind on this guy.
He is pretty accurate, has a great arm to get the ball down the field, and can run the ball and get out of trouble in a heartbeat...
I'm not really for drafting a QB.. but man... I think he could work.
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I wasn't really a big fan of this guy.. but I just watched a Colt McCoy highlight on youtube, and I think I just changed my mind on this guy.
Get this guy a GM position!
No thanks on McCoy. I don't like timing-based QBs (read: spread offense) for the NFL. Give me a guy who makes good decisions over a guy who knows who he's throwing to before the play starts.
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It's hard to say what Holmgren will do based on history, because there's virtually no history to draw conclusions from.
If you mean by that remark we don't know what he'll do at QB based on his [past drafts with Seattle..that would be accurate,but if you want to see trends just look at the Hawks drafts from 99 - 2008..
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I don't think there's a magic fix but it doesn't make sense to me to run a system that handicaps your best defensive player's talents.
Sure, it covers up a few weak areas but what exactly is it doing? We're still one of, if not THE worst, defenses in the entire league.
We have 2 pro-bowl caliber defensive lineman but ask them both to play out of position. I guess I just don't see how that makes sense.
I'm not adamantly against the 3-4, we just have never had the personnel to run it. We keep plugging in 4-3 players in to a 3-4 system and wonder why it's not working.
You build from the inside out, so why not put guys on the inside where they have the most chance to succeed? And then add pieces around them? Continually "patching" holes or asking your best players to play out of position isn't going to get you anywhere.
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No thanks on McCoy. I don't like timing-based QBs (read: spread offense) for the NFL. Give me a guy who makes good decisions over a guy who knows who he's throwing to before the play starts.
I understand what you're saying. I personally wouldn't draft colt either but I would take a guy like Bradford over Clausen in a heart beat. Although to be fair about it Bradford has taken snaps under center quite frequently. For me it all comes down to how the new regime feels about Brady being "the guy."
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I kind of disagree on that assessment. I think our personnel is much better suited for a 4-3.
Williams has the flexibility to play DE in the 3-4 but at 320 LBS, he was great as a 4-3 DT in Green Bay.
The same with Rogers in Detroit. When he's no longer a true two gap player, it gives him the ability to really disrupt things. Instead of gobbling up space he's wreaking havoc as a penetrating tackle.
Let's start here....Corey Williams struggled mightily as a 3-4 DE....no way we even try him out as a 4-3 DE....he's a 4-3 DT and the Pitt game could have us hope that he could be a good one again.
Shaun Rogers is a very good 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT...or a great 3-4NT. Anyway you do it, he is good.
Don't forget Rubin. He's another 4-3 DT or 3-4 NT. So, we'd be set at DTs.
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Put Wimbley's hand back down on the ground as a weak side end, draft a strong side DE with one of our 1st two picks and that's a pretty formidable front 4.
When you have that kind of size inside, you can get away with having some lighter, more athletic ends.
On one side...sure. You can have a lighter speed burning DE who is covered up by a really strong run SOLB (maybe Roth can be that guy?). But, he still has to at least hold his own a little bit. I don't think Wimbley could handle being blocked by both a RT and TE at the same time (or just a RT right on him).
And on both sides? We'd be toast....teams would run to the outside nearly every play and just laught at how easy it is...your backside end HAS to be able to take on a double team without giving ground because your WOLB is likely a small fast guy who can't do it (Maiava or D'Qwell).
And okay, we draft 1 DE....that gives us 2 even if Wimbley is able to handle the move. What happens when one of them gets hurt? We have no depth and DE's are usually among the thinnest of the herd in FA.
Quote:
if we moved to a 4-3 and our draft shook out something like this:
1.) S Eric Berry / DE Derrick Morgan
2.) OLB Sean Witherspoon, / OLB Eric Norwood / DE Brandon Graham
Our defense would actually look fairly competent.
Graham might be a pipe-dream in the 2nd but some scouts might drop him down the board because he doesn't have "ideal size" for a DE.
I MIGHT also give DE Carlos Dunlap a look as well, even with the DUI. Very rarely do you find a guy that big and that athletic. Would have to be sure with someone like him but if you feel like it's a one time mistake, I think he's in the discussion.
But a DL of Williams, Rogers, Wimbley and a Draft Pick isn't exactly a weak d-line.
if we draft Graham to be our 2nd DE with Wimbley...it's not going to work. Dunlap is stronger, but still, a rookie. and absolutely no depth at all at DE.
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Wimbley has no impactful future here. The sooner everyone realizes that, the sooner we can sigh about another wasted first rounder.
Right now, if we switched to a 4-3, the only DE I can see is Matt Roth.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
i understand that Holmgren has always had the 4-3 in his stops...he's also focused mostly on offense though.
i am hoping that we stick with the 3-4 because we have ZERO DE's for the 4-3. it would be ugly.....our OLB's aren't big/strong enough to play DE and our DTs are too big, slow.
DE is the most important position in the front7 for a 4-3 defense to be successful (IMO)....and we would be sorely lacking in both starters and depth.
Matt Roth goes from steal to marginal SOLB. Maiava and D'Qwell are both WOLB. No real ILB on our team (probably put DQ there for now).
I am NOT a fan of making that switch. It makes our DL a weakness...and LBs still a weakness. No thanks.
Ummm.....
I've already made my points clear on the switch to the 4-3 but just to throw this out there.
You do know that we have the worst statistical defense in the league. And a guy that was cut from another team instantly became our best player. And that player is an unrestricted FA in two weeks.
We suck.
Don't worry about switching. Our best 3 defensive players under contract are better suited to the 4-3. We can cut the rest and find street free agents as good or better than them.
Hakuna matata. 
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And a guy that was cut from another team instantly became our best player. And that player is an unrestricted FA in two weeks.
Unless there is no new CBA (which there probably won't be.) In that case Matt Roth is a restricted free agent. As is D'Qwell Jackson.
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Has anyone gotten to watch Rutgers this year? Is Davis strictly a LT or could he be a very good RT?
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I realize the folly in that our defense is not exactly been great....
however, I also think can much more quickly field a competent defense in the 3-4 than 4-3....you made some good arguments before about it, we just differ on some of our thoughts
(and who is the 3rd best defensive player in your opinion? Rogers and D'Qwell are givens.....I thought it would be Eric Wright who shouldn't matter on the front7 alignment more or less)
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He could be a very good right tackle. The more I watch of Davis, the more I like. He might actually pass Okung on my board.
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ok, i'll bite....
who are your top5 OTs...and which of them do you think can make the transition to RT (or are already RTs).
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Like top-7 like him?
If he's a nice RT and suh, berry, and mcclain are gone, I'd think about it.
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1. Russell Okung Oklahoma St. (Pure LT)
2. Anthony Davis Rutgers (Either)
3. Trent Williams Oklahoma (Pure RT)
4. Bruce Campbell Maryland (Probably, not sure though)
5. Jason Fox Miami (Probably, not sure though)
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Gabe Carimi from Wisconsin will be a stud RT. He's a great run blocker.
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I haven't watched him a whole lot to be honest. Can't really offer much of an opinion.
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sort of surprised that Buluga from Iowa didn't make your list.
i haven't seen campbell at all and never paid much attention to Fox, so maybe they are just better....i can't say.
anthony davis looked like a mauler the few games of rutgers i did catch though.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Height & Weight: 6'7 - 325 lbs. 2010 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report: "Gabe Carimi isn't one of the more well known offensive line prospects, but (like Bulaga and Calloway of Iowa) he comes from a program that consistently churns out a lot of very good linemen to the NFL. Carimi took over for former first round pick Joe Thomas at Wisconsin, starting at left tackle as a redshirt freshman. Carimi isn't quite the athlete Thomas was, but he is a solid pass blocker. He is however a very dominating run blocker from the left tackle spot. He has quick feet for a huge man, and uses his long arms to lock onto defenders and force them out of plays while pass blocking. He loves to get to the second level in the run game and continue blocking downfield. Carimi started all 13 games for the Badgers as a freshman, but missed three games last year with minor injuries. Carimi would fit best on a team that relies heavily on the run, as that is the strength of his game. Depending upon what team drafts him, he could be moved to right tackle (where he would be an absolute force, and it would take pressure off of him as a rookie). He does however, have all the tools to succeed at left tackle in the future. Carimi is likely a second round pick if he declares this year. He could be one of the top tackles available in 2011 if he returns, but the potential rookie pay scale and the risk of injury may convince him to declare as a junior. "http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2416
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Bulaga announced he isn't declaring for the draft.
Candy, that's all well and good, but I will wait to form an opinion until I've watched him a lot more.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
i have to say that having bookend OTs from Wisconsin on our OL...especially if Carimi is a 2nd rounder.....sounds pretty darn fun.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Mid-Season mocks (Part two)..well
two b really
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