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Here's my big thing with this... if a supposed offer was made, where is the leverage for Holmgren to demand somewhere in the neighborhood of $8-10 million dollars, as has been reported?
Talking heads are speculating at best that he would love to remain in Seattle, where his daughters live and he has a home and all that. And that makes sense, naturally. But there has been no proof of that being stated by Holmgren anywhere. Furthermore, you have various reports that the Seahawk brass seem uninterested in bringing Holmgren back. Whether it be due to his track record as GM or the new CEO, Tod Leiweke, and his desire to bring in "his guy" instead of a retread hometown favorite. Either way, how does Holmgren have any leverage over us when it comes to contract demands.
There are far more viable candidates than there are positions of this kind right now in the NFL. It does seem like Randy has set his sights on one path and one path only right now. But maybe not. Maybe Holmgren is just the first of several big names to come through Berea and Randy will ultimately choose the best one. But when you add up the supposed money on the table, Holmgren's desire to know 'by Christmas' deadline, and the lack of available jobs open to him right now... it just doesn't make sense for us to throw everything but the kitchen sink at him right now. We are in a much better position at the bargaining table than Holmgren is. Thoughts??
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Quote:
There are far more viable candidates than there are positions of this kind right now in the NFL.
Well, I can think of only a couple,, Parcells and Dungy.. Parcells without a doubt is viable,, Dungy I think is a good man and an excellent HC.. I believe he could be more but there isn't anything but my feelings to go on.
Any others? I mean on the level of Parcells and Holmgren.
I don't think there is as many as you think there are that give the sense of a "can't miss" candidate.
That may be the leverage that Holmgren has.
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/17/09 08:55 AM.
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NFL: Mike Holmgren wraps up talks with Cleveland
Former Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren's flirtation with the Browns dragged on Wednesday with little word from either side. Holmgren spent two days talking with the Browns about assuming control of their football operations, but hasn't decided if Cleveland will be his next NFL stop.
By The Associated Press
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BEREA, Ohio — Mike Holmgren left Cleveland after an extended stay without accepting a job to become boss of the Browns.
His aura lingered.
The former Seattle and Green Bay coach's flirtation with the team dragged on Wednesday with little word from either side. Holmgren spent two days talking with the Browns about assuming control of their football operations, but hasn't decided if Cleveland will be his next NFL stop.
"I don't want to comment on the specifics of the discussions," Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz said of the meetings. "Both sides got to know each other and there is no timetable for a decision."
It is presumed the Browns offered Holmgren the job during his visit and it appears he is weighing his options, which could include several other teams. He wants to talk to the Seahawks about coming back after general manager Tim Ruskell resigned.
Jim Donovan, the team's play-by-play announcer, reported that Cleveland's offer to Holmgren is for between $8 million and $10 million per season.
Browns coach Eric Mangini, whose destiny could be decided by Cleveland's new football czar, was placed in the awkward position of having to answer questions about Holmgren's courtship. Mangini put on a brave face and insisted he's not fazed by owner Randy Lerner's quest to find a "serious, credible leader," one who will ultimately control the coach's fate.
"It's not unsettling at all," said Mangini, 2-11 in his first season with Cleveland. "What I'm focused on, and what I asked the players to be focused on, is the task at hand."
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Mangini, polished as usual. If MH is hired I would love to be a fly on the wall in the meeting between the 2. 
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Here we go with the fly-on-the-wall thing again. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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If we're hiring for a Parcells like position with the team, we have to look at what was he paid, according to the Miami Herald this figure was 3 million per year. This is a 2008 article and he may have negotiated an increase to stay on but 3 million was the value set for the premier talent in the league for this czar position. Now comes a report we are offering 8 to 10 million per year? Does that make sense to anyone that we'd offer that much of an increase to a person without the credentials of a Parcells? Or is this simply a sign of how bad this organization is that we have to offer that much of an increase to get someone with talent to even consider joining up? If the report of the offer and the money are true and Holmgren didn't sign right then, I don't want the guy, he's an idiot.
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Or is this simply a sign of how bad this organization is that we have to offer that much of an increase to get someone with talent to even consider joining up?
It could be that,, or it could be that Lerner doesn't want to hear NO.. so he made him an offer he couldn't refuse..
Perhaps his real name is Don Randolfo Lernerini
Before anyone says it,, I'm allowed to throw stones..,I'm Italian 
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Quote:
Here's my big thing with this... if a supposed offer was made, where is the leverage for Holmgren to demand somewhere in the neighborhood of $8-10 million dollars, as has been reported?
Talking heads are speculating at best that he would love to remain in Seattle, where his daughters live and he has a home and all that. And that makes sense, naturally. But there has been no proof of that being stated by Holmgren anywhere. Furthermore, you have various reports that the Seahawk brass seem uninterested in bringing Holmgren back. Whether it be due to his track record as GM or the new CEO, Tod Leiweke, and his desire to bring in "his guy" instead of a retread hometown favorite. Either way, how does Holmgren have any leverage over us when it comes to contract demands.
There are far more viable candidates than there are positions of this kind right now in the NFL. It does seem like Randy has set his sights on one path and one path only right now. But maybe not. Maybe Holmgren is just the first of several big names to come through Berea and Randy will ultimately choose the best one. But when you add up the supposed money on the table, Holmgren's desire to know 'by Christmas' deadline, and the lack of available jobs open to him right now... it just doesn't make sense for us to throw everything but the kitchen sink at him right now. We are in a much better position at the bargaining table than Holmgren is. Thoughts??
From the article I posted...
"I don't want to comment on the specifics of the discussions," Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz said of the meetings. "Both sides got to know each other and there is no timetable for a decision."
It is presumed the Browns offered Holmgren the job during his visit and it appears he is weighing his options, which could include several other teams. He wants to talk to the Seahawks about coming back after general manager Tim Ruskell resigned.
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Kard...First, we don't know what the offer was, do we?
WE ARE SPECULATING...
It might be that the Browns ended their discussions at the lower end of the speculated offer of $8 to 10 mill per yr, "knowing" that Holmgren was going back to Seattle to talk to them about their GM opening. There may be other teams wanting to meet with Holmgren, so it's hard for us to know what the demand for Holmgren's services is going to be.
That would leave the Browns with room to counter offer should Holmgren come back with a better offer.
I will state again, IMO, Randy Lerner can not win a bidding war with Paul Allen for Holmgren's services if it's based solely on $$ per year. If it does come down to a bidding war, Lerner would have to offer more than just top dollar and as I have mentioned, a minority stake in the Browns might do the trick.
But let's not debate the issue of minority ownership again.
BTW, ESPN is reporting this morning that the Redskins VP of football operations Vinny Cerrato just stepped down, so obviously, there will be more demand for Holmgren's services.
See how quickly the seats at the bargaining table can change?
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Honestly, I don't care what they pay him! Does he count against the cap?
It's RL's dime and I figure he aint gonna hire MH then tell him he must back the 10 mill out of the teams salaries. We alol knew going in it would take a truckload of cash to land him. Now land him and don't look back!
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But let's not debate the issue of minority ownership again.
Where's the Amen emoticon when you need one? 
I'll add this, Lerner can indeed compete with Paul Allen in a bidding war because although Paul Allen has more money than Randy Lerner there is no way the bid gets anywhere near their bank balance. If Allen offers $1 billion Randy could match that and raise him $10 million easily.
There is a market price for the services of a Czar. And although Holmgren might end up with more than market value, at some point, way, way, way, way, way, way, way before Lerner's bank account gets dangerously low, the price for Holmgren will be determined.
It's not like Allen will outbid Lerner until Lerner has no more money to work with.
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Hopefully Holmgren has seen or will see the differences in Randy Lerner and Dan Snyder and what they may mean in his employment.
Snyder will be in your business every second while Lerner minds his own!
Game, set, match...Seattle is the thorn for us.
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If the report of the offer and the money are true and Holmgren didn't sign right then, I don't want the guy, he's an idiot.
tulsa...you do know who Paul Allen is, don't you?...also, the Redskins now have an opening to fill.
I will say this, if the Browns don't get Holmgren, with the type of money Randy Lerner is "reported" to have flashed, he might get a Parcells to listen.
BTW, isn't it ironic that the day after Holmgren leaves Cleveland, Dan Snyder fires his head football guy?
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BTW, isn't it ironic that the day after Holmgren leaves Cleveland, Dan Snyder fires his head football guy?
Not that it means anything really, but the blog reports are that Cerrato resigned...
Hey,, didn't Snyder and Cerrato just go on a scouting trip or something
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Quote:
Quote:
BTW, isn't it ironic that the day after Holmgren leaves Cleveland, Dan Snyder fires his head football guy?
Not that it means anything really, but the blog reports are that Cerrato resigned...
Hey,, didn't Snyder and Cerrato just go on a scouting trip or something
Must have been a horrible date!
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Quote:
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BTW, isn't it ironic that the day after Holmgren leaves Cleveland, Dan Snyder fires his head football guy?
Not that it means anything really, but the blog reports are that Cerrato resigned...
Hey,, didn't Snyder and Cerrato just go on a scouting trip or something
daman..I doubt you will find many who believe it was Cerrato's idea to walk. You know how it works, they call you in and say you have a choice, be fired or resign.
It doesn't matter how the opening was created, but the timing is interesting. How much of an ego does Snyder have?
I would love to hear Holmgren say, he's not interested in the Redskins opening...wouldn't that frost Dan Snyder.
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It's bit bold for Snyder to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water isn't it. I mean it is typical Dan Snyder thinking that Since Zorn is there and Since Holmgren likes Zorn that Holmgren will never, ever turn his offer down.
One problem Danny boy....YOU!!!!
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If the report of the offer and the money are true and Holmgren didn't sign right then, I don't want the guy, he's an idiot.
tulsa...you do know who Paul Allen is, don't you?...also, the Redskins now have an opening to fill.
I will say this, if the Browns don't get Holmgren, with the type of money Randy Lerner is "reported" to have flashed, he might get a Parcells to listen.
BTW, isn't it ironic that the day after Holmgren leaves Cleveland, Dan Snyder fires his head football guy?
Paul Allen? No, who's that? 
I know how you guys love to spend Lerner's money around here but when the going rate is set at 3 million you don't offer 8 to 10, you offer 5 at most and move up if necessary. If you start high, you can't go back down. Of course we just made Parcells Christmas as he's got his walk clause I believe and for a raise like that you can bet he's going to be talking to his people with his hand out.
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daman..I doubt you will find many who believe it was Cerrato's idea to walk. You know how it works, they call you in and say you have a choice, be fired or resign.
Yeah, I know. That's why I said it doesn't mean anything... 
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How do you know the going rate is 3mil?
Nm, I found the Parcells #'s.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 12/17/09 10:17 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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In the first post I linked to an article from the Miami Herald a year into his contract that stated it. (notice the text in white)
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I believe that first offer was critical. Do we want you Mike? Yes, we want you THIS MUCH!!! RL knows what he has in his wallet and what he can afford and I think he's sick and tired of this drama (brought on by his own decsions mind you) that it's worth every nickle to get this train back on track. Just MHO.
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know how you guys love to spend Lerner's money around here but when the going rate is set at 3 million you don't offer 8 to 10, you offer 5 at most and move up if necessary.
I guarantee, if he offered 5 mill and we didn't get him, some folks on here would be all over him for being cheap...
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know how you guys love to spend Lerner's money around here but when the going rate is set at 3 million you don't offer 8 to 10, you offer 5 at most and move up if necessary.
I guarantee, if he offered 5 mill and we didn't get him, some folks on here would be all over him for being cheap...
Sad but true....the guy just cant seem to do anything right these days. Of course the media isnt helping matters either by creating stories out of nothing
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Sad but true....the guy just cant seem to do anything right these days. Of course the media isnt helping matters either by creating stories out of nothing
Just between you and me Tubby,, The Media rarely helps anything because of how they report things.. IF they ever figure out that just stating the fact is best,,, maybe someday.. but not now. Let's just keep that to ourselves
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yeah Grossi would lose his job as he doesnt know how to speak the truth....and I suspect alot of others would too have to find a new line of work haha......I just hope that we get this right, its been way to long with losing, busted drafts, coaching changes, office turnover....im getting tired of being a laughing stock of the NFL...but hey we did beat Pittsburgh so thats a start....umm....right? hehe
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Checking out the Redskins boards and it seems pretty certain that Bruce Allen is their man. Makes sense since the old man is legend in Washington.
We are still on track for MH.
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Checking out the Redskins boards and it seems pretty certain that Bruce Allen is their man. Makes sense since the old man is legend in Washington.
PFT said that too.
Holmgren might be ours. And this makes me think our guys our going to play their butts off next week (trying to save their job, seeing their new fate maker will probably be watching close).
But signs still show Holmgren coming here. I like this. Before it was always Cowher to come in and coach, I feel like that's cheating. This is a much better option.
I just wonder what Holmgren would do with the coaches. Esp. Rob Ryan whom finally gets pressure on the quarterback out of our OLBs and defense (Wimbley has played his best this season IMO, and he's finally getting it I think).
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It may be putting the cart before the horse as there's no idea who he may choose as GM, but Isn't Mooch of that coaching tree? I'd have to believe he'd be stongly considered to coach the Browns if Mangini was let go.
GM candidates are a mystery though.
Maybe him and the coach co-GM? Just tossing out scenarios.
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It may be putting the cart before the horse as there's no idea who he may choose as GM, but Isn't Mooch of that coaching tree? I'd have to believe he'd be stongly considered to coach the Browns if Mangini was let go.
GM candidates are a mystery though.
Maybe him and the coach co-GM? Just tossing out scenarios.
This would be an option I think, or I wouldn't be suprised if Holmgren came in and took over as GM/Czar and hired a coach.
I've always liked the mention of Steve Marriuchi. He's a little more trim than our last coaches (joke), and he definitely has coached in the league. For some reason he's never caught on anywhere after his three year failure with the Lions, and this makes me nervous
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Mooch is for sure in that tree., Morninwig (sp) is also.. as well as Gruden.
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It could well shape up to be an all star cast! This city needs that followed by its actual success!
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You do know Holmgren is the one sending out "info" to the press eh? That makes everything said about contracts and interest a lie.
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I guarantee, if he offered 5 mill and we didn't get him, some folks on here would be all over him for being cheap...
j/k
Ya....It's Lerner...Not Dolan...Common....
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Just thinking.
People panicked that Snyder was going after Holmgren.
Now he hires Paul Allen.
Perhaps its Dan's card to acquire to Gruden? Paul Allen and Gruden are tight. If Snyder thought that Holmgren would be able to pull in Gruden (Randy's money speaks a lot louder than anything disneypn is paying), then maybe....
I shoudn't think. I should just believe what the "know it alls" tell me to.
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Quote:
Quote:
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If the report of the offer and the money are true and Holmgren didn't sign right then, I don't want the guy, he's an idiot.
tulsa...you do know who Paul Allen is, don't you?...also, the Redskins now have an opening to fill.
I will say this, if the Browns don't get Holmgren, with the type of money Randy Lerner is "reported" to have flashed, he might get a Parcells to listen.
BTW, isn't it ironic that the day after Holmgren leaves Cleveland, Dan Snyder fires his head football guy?
Paul Allen? No, who's that?
I know how you guys love to spend Lerner's money around here but when the going rate is set at 3 million you don't offer 8 to 10, you offer 5 at most and move up if necessary. If you start high, you can't go back down. Of course we just made Parcells Christmas as he's got his walk clause I believe and for a raise like that you can bet he's going to be talking to his people with his hand out.
tulsa...Since Randy has not done such a great job of spending his own money, I thought I would help him out a little...
First, you dont know if Lerner offered Holmgren 8 to 10 mill a year, do you?
It's reported that the offer was 8 to 10 mill, but I didn't see any specific sources identified. Just because it's reported, that does not make is so.
Therefore, I would not get my shorts in a bunch over the "reported" amount, would you?
As for Parcells..if he did sign a contract for 3 mill per year and has an out clause...he knows where he can double or triple his current salary, should Holmgren opt to take the Seattle job... 
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Just thinking.
People panicked that Snyder was going after Holmgren.
Now he hires Paul Allen.
oldskool...Now that I think about it...Snyder would not hire Holmgren...because we know Holmgren would not allow Snyder to go with him on scouting trips..
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Just thinking.
People panicked that Snyder was going after Holmgren.
Now he hires Paul Allen.
Perhaps its Dan's card to acquire to Gruden? Paul Allen and Gruden are tight. If Snyder thought that Holmgren would be able to pull in Gruden (Randy's money speaks a lot louder than anything disneypn is paying), then maybe....
I shoudn't think. I should just believe what the "know it alls" tell me to.
If Holmgren doesn't keep Mangini, I have hoped all along Gruden would make a good choice, and have also mentioned on this Board that Gruden would be a nice fit in D.C.
I see Gruden "out-of-the-booth" somewhere next year.
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Perhaps it was $8-10 million over 3 years... that would make more sense.. or even 2 years......
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Gruden acted odd during the night game they broadcast here. Looked like the cat that ate the canary. Jaws looked at him with an " I know your secret" look when Gruden fondly talked about the team. The whole evening seemed odd to me. Gruden was kind of giddy. It most likely means zilch...but, we know these guys talk and the circles they travel in are more up on things and in tune with things than we are. Who's to say MH hasn't said to Gruden that he's interested in the Browns job and would love to have him aboard if and when that should happen.
Gruden signs the ESPN deal just in case (we all know there IS an out) and it all plays out from there. It's no toooo far fetched!
Hey, a guy can think can't he?!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,194 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
Now he hires Paul Allen
Not trying to be picky,, Paul Allen is the owner of Seattle.. Bruce Allen is the guy that just replaced Carrato with the Redskins....
I didn't know that Bruce Allen and Grudin were tight..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren - Part 2
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