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ttim...hate to tell you this, but that story is on page 4 of this thread...It was a NFL wire story, picked up by USA Today...
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Quote:
IT "HAS" BEEN A MONTH...
it's been 4 days Mac....
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
daman...I wonder if Toad, DJ and some of the other anti-Quinn fans heard that?
I wouldn't gloat too much Mac.. it goes both ways..
If you thought he was "the man" after the few games he's played,, then you could be just as wrong as those that thought he wasn't "the man" after the few games he's played 
it's one of those, damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda things..
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Quote:
Quote:
IT "HAS" BEEN A MONTH...
it's been 4 days Mac....
daman...NO, it's been a month since Jim Brown made his comment about Lerner meeting with someone with "a great football mind"...
web page
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Quote:
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daman...I wonder if Toad, DJ and some of the other anti-Quinn fans heard that?
I wouldn't gloat too much Mac.. it goes both ways..
If you thought he was "the man" after the few games he's played,, then you could be just as wrong as those that thought he wasn't "the man" after the few games he's played
it's one of those, damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda things..
daman...sure you want to continue down this line?...
It's not gloating when Mike Holmgren says virtually the same thing I have said to those who made the claim that since Quinn has been in the league for 3 yrs, he has 3 yrs of experience.
It's not even damned if you do or damned if you don't...
...it's simply good football common sense without any agenda...
It's good to see someone else make the same point I'm trying to make...
Quinn only has 11 starts going into this weeks game...and studied Chudzinski's system for 2 yrs and 1 yr with Daboll's system...
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daman...NO, it's been a month since Jim Brown made his comment about Lerner meeting with someone with "a great football mind"...
You are assuming that holmgren is the person he is talking about.. you are also assuming that Brown wasn't talking out of his butt.. Very large assumptions..
We DO KNOW, that Holmgren was here on Monday and Tuesday.. So we DO KNOW that it's been 4 days..
I have only one question,, is it your assumption.. tell me YES OR NO
#GMSTRONG
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STOP RIGHT THERE MAC...
I'm damn sure not afraid to go down that path... But I won't debate this on this thread because I don't want to derail it.. you can if you like, I won't.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Quote:
daman...NO, it's been a month since Jim Brown made his comment about Lerner meeting with someone with "a great football mind"...
You are assuming that holmgren is the person he is talking about.. you are also assuming that Brown wasn't talking out of his butt.. Very large assumptions..
We DO KNOW, that Holmgren was here on Monday and Tuesday.. So we DO KNOW that it's been 4 days..
I have only one question,, is it your assumption.. tell me YES OR NO
Daman...you can play mind games with yourself, if you want...I guess it's your right.
I sure thought Grossi indicated it was likely Holmgren who Jim Brown was speaking of...maybe that isn't Holmgren's picture next to Grossi's story?..... web page
Maybe the date on Grossi's article is not Nov. 17th...It sure looks to me like it was Holmgren who met with Lerner back when Jim Brown opened his mouth about it. I do believe Grossi is of the same opinion...
Like I said, you can spin it any way you want...what ever makes you feel good...ok?
Also, it sure looks like Holmgren and I think alike when it comes to Quinn and his playing experience in the NFL, doesn't it?...
Is it ok if Holmgren and I have a similar opinions concerning Quinn's actual game experience (level) since he's been in the NFL?
Like I said...common football sense with no agenda...
Last edited by mac; 12/18/09 09:27 PM.
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I don't think it matters if Holmgren is the person Jim Brown was talking about or not. Mac said he has been waiting a month for Holmgren's decision. Whether Holmgren was an assumption on his part (accurate or not) or just Mac hoping that it was Holmgren, he has been waiting a month for this decision to be made.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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The truth is we don't know, Brown was purposely vague.
We do know that Holmgren spent the last week in Mexico, building houses with his wife. It is entirely plausible that he did not want to get involved in serious discussions until he was back from Mexico.
I am still hopeful.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Daman, thanks for all you did in this thread today.
I had to work all day and into this evening and didn't have an opportunity to listen live to this conversation and you brought it home dude! Kudos!
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Someone wake me up if he does. or does not take the job. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Corey Williams is getting on my nerves....even with his game against Pitt
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the guy can play though, and at the moment, is arguably the best d-lineman we have.
He's just frustrated that he didn't start this season... I get him. Sometimes a little over redundant, but I get him.
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Quote:
the guy can play though, and at the moment, is arguably the best d-lineman we have.
He's just frustrated that he didn't start this season... I get him. Sometimes a little over redundant, but I get him.
]
LOL, Corey Williams sucks in this system. He was a HUGE reason why we lost to the Lions and got slammed vs. the Chargers. The Browns have TRIED to trade him several times but thanks to the rediculous contract Savage gave him, no one is biting.
Why even make this post?
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Quote:
daman...I wonder if Toad, DJ and some of the other anti-Quinn fans heard that?
They sure as heck didn't believe me when I said the same thing...that Quinn's 3 yrs in the NFL does not = 3 yrs of NFL experience.
Mac, you could tell me the sky is blue, but I'd have to go to the window and check before I'd believe you.
Tell you what..............If you can give me just ONE negative quote from Holmgren about all this, I'll concede that Holmgren is cutting Quinn some slack.
That's all you have to do: Give me one negative comment from Holmgren about this organization, the coaching staff, the players, or the city.
Just one. That shouldn't be too tough, should it? 
Otherwise, my point is obvious: He isn't going to say one derogatory thing about anything-Cleveland because that'd be the most idiotic thing he could do, and Holmgren is no idiot.
This truly means one of two things, Mac. Either you've taken the bait hook, line, and sinker when so blindly believing the words that come out of a public figures mouth born from a desire to be proven right, or in what would be a much worse scenario for you, the alternative is that your debating skills are..........well..........debatable  in which case you're badly over-matched.
Just one quote........... 
Methinks you've painted yourself into a corner, one in which you can only do one thing: Spin.....spin like a worm on a hook!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well, he did say that he thinks the way the qb situation has been handled was bad "for the [QBs] and for the team." that certainly would be a criticism of the coaching staff, if not the team as a whole.
So I guess it depends if you consider criticsm negative I guess.
Well... Do you?
ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!
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No, that's spin. Granted, a better job than Mac could produce, but it's spin none-the-less
Here's the exact quote:
Quote:
Q: Mentioned quarterbacks there. When you watch Brady Quinn what do you see?
A: I haven't watched him every much. He's a local guy, a great college player at Notre Dame, lot of success. Derek Anderson had a really fine season, I remember him having a great game against us. You have these two guys. This I know, juggling two guys, becomes hard for both of them and team. Not optimum situation that way. In Brady's case, he was a high draft pick. You can count the number of games he played, by third year if guy has played and played in one system, you know what you have. He isn't close approaching three years playing even though he's in his third year. I'd have to study and learn so much more about both young men make good answer.
That is NOT a criticism of the team. He didn't say the coaches were wrong. He said juggling them both is hard for the players and the team and that it wasn't an optimum situation.
WELL DUH!
Nice try, but no dice, Steve
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Just Clicking
WOW,, for a guy who didn't discuss money, the media is sure making it sound as if the decision is Holmgrens and Holmgrens alone..
Go to any of the sports media outlets, CBS, Fox, SI etc and the story is the same.. and all based on the Radio Show yesterday...
Here are a few of the headlines:
NFL.com: Holmgren will have decision for Browns 'sooner than later'
ESPN: Holmgren: Browns offer very very appealing
You get the drift..
I was rereading the transcript and I gotta say, the more I think about what he said and how he said it, I think he was officially offered the job and he's ready to accept but can't until the Browns know for sure that the league rules have been met.
Just a gut feeling (no pun intended) but thats what I think.. My guess is that he has already unofficially accepted and is just waiting for clearence to announce it..
Just a guess....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
My guess is that he has already unofficially accepted and is just waiting for clearence to announce it..
This is my feeling too. I really think no other teams are in play. The Seahawks may be able to offer more money, but they aren't able to offer him the power he will have here.
I find it interesting that Holmgren said he was offered "any and all" positions, implying anything from GM to coaching. That made me slightly nervous that he would try to GM/coach again, but then I calmed down and realized just because that's whats offered doesn't mean that's what he will do. I think he's a smart enough guy to know now that coaching and GM really can't be handled by one person.
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Toad...you need to debate Holmgren, not me...since you and Mike have such differing viewpoints on Quinn.
toad writes..."By ANY QB's 3rd year in the league, accuracy, poise, and mechanics should be sound, regardless of how many games they've started."
Holmgren said.. In Brady's case, he was a high draft pick. You can count the number of games he played, by third year if guy has played and played in one system, you know what you have. He isn't close approaching three years playing even though he's in his third year.
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As I said yesterday, Holmgren may not know exactly what job/jobs he wants here in Cleveland.
Does Holmgren want to coach?...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Holmgren doesn't rule out coaching the Browns
Posted by Mike Florio on December 18, 2009 5:55 PM ET
Current Browns coach Eric Mangini is unfazed by the prospect that he might soon be working for Mike Holmgren.
We wonder how Mangini feels about the possibility that Holmgren might soon be working "for" Mangini.
During his weekly radio show on KJR in Seattle, Holmgren talked about his possible employment with the Browns. And Holmgren didn't rule out coaching the team (via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer).
Holmgren also called the opportunity with the Browns "very appealing," and he said he'll respond to owner Randy Lerner "sooner than later" as to whether Holmgren will take the job.
Holmgren also said that "there's not a lot of layers between [him and Lerner] and it's very, very appealing from that aspect."
He also said that he has been contacted by one other NFL team, but not the Seahawks.
If the Seahawks haven't called yet, we've got a feeling that the call from the Seahawks is never coming.
web page
Here is another article from the Plain Dealer, this morning...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Holmgren doesn't rule out coaching Browns
By Mary Kay Cabot
December 19, 2009, 5:00AM
web page
While the date shows this to be a new story as of 5 AM...It looks to be the same article as yesterday...so I'll just leave the link...mac
Last edited by mac; 12/19/09 09:25 AM.
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I don't know about everyone else, but I would think the Browns could be turned around much quicker if Holmgren were the HC/GM.
The question would be, would Holmgren burn out with such a load?
Then again, I don't believe he wanted to give up the GM position in Seattle...I believe that move was forced upon him. Now that we can look back at the job Ruskell did as GM, maybe the Seahawks got it wrong when they removed Holmgren from the GM position?
Maybe Holmgren the HC, didn't want to go out that way...
Maybe Holmgren's coaching fire burns hotter than many realized?
That would explain why $$ have not been nailed down and why Holmgren needs more time to consider his options.
I would welcome Holmgren as HC/GM...
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I am not that thrilled with a czar/coach.
I still get the feeling a GM would be hired.
Now we get back to the Rooney Rule again, only this time as it pertains to the coaching slot.
Where I wasn't all that concerned a few days ago, I am now starting to worry we have this all balled up and might lose a pick.
At first it seemed like the Czar was exempt, but the latest says it isn't. At this point I don't think we could conduct a meaningful interview if in fact Holmgren takes the position, unless that interview has already happened. Something tells me Tony Dungey couldn't have come to town for a interview totally under the radar.
However that was inside the scope of a GM or whatever you want to call it. I am sure we haven't conducted interviews for head coaching candidates at this point, and now the talk is Holmgren might coach?? How do we do that without conducting meaningful interviews, and again, how meaningful could any interviews be if the deal with Holmgren is all but done??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
No, that's spin. Granted, a better job than Mac could produce, but it's spin none-the-less
Here's the exact quote:
Quote:
Q: Mentioned quarterbacks there. When you watch Brady Quinn what do you see?
A: I haven't watched him every much. He's a local guy, a great college player at Notre Dame, lot of success. Derek Anderson had a really fine season, I remember him having a great game against us. You have these two guys. This I know, juggling two guys, becomes hard for both of them and team. Not optimum situation that way. In Brady's case, he was a high draft pick. You can count the number of games he played, by third year if guy has played and played in one system, you know what you have. He isn't close approaching three years playing even though he's in his third year. I'd have to study and learn so much more about both young men make good answer.
That is NOT a criticism of the team. He didn't say the coaches were wrong. He said juggling them both is hard for the players and the team and that it wasn't an optimum situation.
That is thinly disguised criticism if I ever saw it.. "not optimum situation" is practically the same as a bad situation, just more sugar coated.. and that criticism is purely on the head coach's shoulder for the way it turned out... Of course, Holmgren is not going to come out and say that the Mangini screwed up the qb situation. He is going to say it in the most nicest way you can... if you think otherwise, then who is responsible for this "not optimum situation"?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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The combined GM/HC thing bothers me. He's tried that before and although you will find people on both sides, it didn't appear to be a good thing for him.
I mean, I guess he knows more now then he did then and maybe he could do both, but I'm not thinking this is the time to experiment..
My preference would be for a more traditional set up with Holmgren in the top football spot (dare not call it czar around him LOL).
I'd have no problem with him acting as the Top guy as well as GM for a year.. then if the need is there, hire someone. Take time, do it right....
Ahh, who am I kidding, right about now, if Holmgren is ready to accept, he's already got the guys he wants in mind. JMO...
#GMSTRONG
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wow...in less than 24 hours 6 pages added to a subject..got to page 6 then fast forwarded to the 8th page cause it was the same news over n over. Which somehow does not make it news anymore.
It did dawn on me on how so many Browns fans have no social life on a Friday...lol
AROUND CHRISTMAS TIME!!!
From the get go from the firing of Kokinis...I had two names out there...Dungy or Holmgren...I remember most here n the other board was Dungy don't want to get back to football yet, and no way Holmgren would want to come here 
Hey I don't predict...scores, record, etc. I just make my wish lists on all stuff for the future. Nice to get a wish list come to you once in a while. Last time that happened we drafted Joe Thomas. Oh and the only time.
Some things I'm very curious about:
"We're aware of the rule," Bonsiewicz said. "So much so that we contacted the league office to make sure we're clear on it."
What I cannot understand is anyone in this position - AND IS AWARE OF THE RULE...how can they proceed without making that their first move and priority of work. I mean I'm not in construction either but common sense tells me - I need a permit to built this thing...the first thing I do is not hire my crew, buy all the materials and then when I'm ready to pull the trigger and commence...Decide I might as well go get that PERMIT?!?!?!
I just don't get it.
The fact that Holmgren didn't refute the job at least tells us its not a dead issue.
Toad - I thought that was very interesting regarding Gruden's iron clad 2010 plans/contract. And that pretty much goes perfect with letting Mangini continue for at least another season.
I do disagree with you on your assessment of Gruden w/QBs. I think he's excellent. revolving door of QBs in Tampa...mainly cause they didn't have a QB. Johnson was fading fast after his SB...proof was in his play afterwards when seen was totally "TERRIBLE" - I like to look at his handling of Gratkowski and making him look comfortable out there as a rookie - I thought that was pretty good work.
On Zorn coming here as our QB coach...yeah I guess if there is no other gig...but I would ASSume if he did come it would be as OC after all that was what he was hired for at Wash...before the idiot owner messed that up. And added HC onto somebody on top of the OC responsibilities for somebody who never ran anything.
Ya mean his OC abilities were less than what were expected? lol Or the ability to properly be an OC were just not available
All I know this is great...I get my 2nd Wish list (MAYBE) being made with the Browns...hopefully this will turn out as good or better than the first 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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What I cannot understand is anyone in this position - AND IS AWARE OF THE RULE...how can they proceed without making that their first move and priority of work.
I wonder the same thing. The only thing that makes any sense to me is the difficulty in finding a viable minority candidate that will satisfy the Rooney rule and making sure you get the first real crack at Holmgren. The fact that Cleveland was his first stop after returning from Mexico tells me that getting MH in town as quickly as possible was a priority.
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Quote:
I am not that thrilled with a czar/coach.
I still get the feeling a GM would be hired.
Now we get back to the Rooney Rule again, only this time as it pertains to the coaching slot.
Where I wasn't all that concerned a few days ago, I am now starting to worry we have this all balled up and might lose a pick.
At first it seemed like the Czar was exempt, but the latest says it isn't. At this point I don't think we could conduct a meaningful interview if in fact Holmgren takes the position, unless that interview has already happened. Something tells me Tony Dungey couldn't have come to town for a interview totally under the radar.
However that was inside the scope of a GM or whatever you want to call it. I am sure we haven't conducted interviews for head coaching candidates at this point, and now the talk is Holmgren might coach?? How do we do that without conducting meaningful interviews, and again, how meaningful could any interviews be if the deal with Holmgren is all but done??
Peen...what you perceive as "all balled up" might be nothing more than the Browns front office deliberately going slow, making sure to abide by the Rooney rule.
Like I said, if Holmgren is trying to decide if he wants to be HC, that would require the Browns front office to have an entirely different list of candidates to interview.
But there is only so much the Browns front office can do, "until" they know for sure what Holmgren wants to do. I got the impression that Holmgren is fully aware of time frame issue...from this article... web page ...
...He said as far as the roles that were discussed, it "would be any and all. It's a wonderful opportunity for anybody. Exactly how the setup will be regarding me, it's something I'm still thinking about.''
Holmgren, who's won one Super Bowl and taken his teams to three, did not rule out coaching the Browns and was somewhat vague on that topic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not the least bit worried about the Browns slipping up and not abiding by NFL rules, pertaining to the hiring process.
The Browns just need to know if they need to interview HC candidates, HC/GM candidates or Czar candidates.
I just hope and pray that Holmgren says yes to "any" (or all) of our openings...the waiting is killing me...lol...
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General reply here ... following is from Greg Johns of The Seattle Post Intelligencer. Note to mods: It is a blog entry by a reporter for the newspaper, delete if you see fit to. But it does contain a summary of the latter part of his radio interview not spoken of much here; Holmgren talking about Seattle and the Seahawks opening. He sounds very much like a man who wants to hear from the Seahawks, IMO.http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/archives/188693.aspHolmgren sounds like man saying goodbyeMike Holmgren sounded very much like a man ready to go a new direction -- most likely the Cleveland Browns -- but said Friday on his weekly show on KJR-AM 950 that he hasn't been told he's not a candidate for the Seahawks' president and general manager openings. Holmgren acknowledged that there is a growing "time crunch," however, and that he's a little disappointed he hasn't received more interest from his former Seahawks team. "As we're getting down to the last two weeks of the season, maybe I was hoping for a few more positive signs," he said on his show with Dave "Softy" Mahler and Hugh Millen. Holmgren said he had no regrets about letting it be known he wanted to return to the Seahawks. "I devoted 10 years of my life to trying to make the franchise and team good," Holmgren said. "I needed that year off, which I don't regret taking, but my family is in Seattle and Seattle is home. There'd be something really special about going back with the organization. "But having said that, I'm a big boy. Employers make decisions and you have to live with them. A lot of decisions are out of your hands. ... I get what the organization has to do and there's no one I trust more than Tod Leiweke. It just is what it is." Asked if he was surprised he hasn't received a call yet from Seattle, Holmgren sounded very much like a man saying goodbye to the Pacific Northwest. "I think if you're in this business for any length of time, at times you're disappointed," he said. "But organizations have to do what they have to do. People making decisions want what's best for the organization and sometimes you're not included. "I've stated what I have to say. If a different direction is what is called for, then I wish them well. But I do need to work next year. There is some time and we'll see, but it's a business and you have to do what you do and let chips fall where they may. "I've been very lucky. I'm fortunate and I know that. There's nothing bad that is going to happen. Life goes on. The beauty of this thing is, if it's not in Seattle, what I got to do at end of last season and on this (radio) show, the fans have been awesome. "The people of Seattle have been awesome and Qwest Field is a great place to play. They'll be awesome and supportive long after Mike Holmgren leaves. I was glad to be a part of that." Holmgren talked about the Browns opening as head of football operations as if it was a very attractive alternative. He said he didn't talk money with Browns owner Randy Lerner, but has a good sense that he'd have the job there if he wants. He mentioned driving around and looking at houses in Cleveland on Tuesday as part of the normal "fact-finding" that goes on a job search and said his wife Kathy is willing to relocate to Ohio, knowing he wants to work in the NFL again. Holmgren said there is no firm timetable, but said "sooner than later" would be preferred on a Browns' decision in fairness to Lerner. "He's been fair with me and is a very honest man," Holmgren said. "I'm not trying to leverage anybody or do anything like that. It's a wonderful opportunity for anybody. It's about as good a job situation as you could want in this business." Holmgren sounded as if the Browns' situation, while not attractive to some, is perfect for his interests. "The challenge of rebuilding is kind of in my blood, so I might look at jobs differently than someone else. It's kind of how you're wired," he said. "The biggest attraction for me in Cleveland right now is ownership. Randy wants the team to play well and do well for the city. He likes the area. He wants to do this for the right reasons and I've been very, very impressed. "All the other stuff, quarterbacks or things you'd want better, they really are a distant second and thirds and fourths. It's a wonderful job with a lot of responsibility and lot a of layers between me and the owner. In fact there are none." And at this point, given the phone apparently isn't ringing from Seattle, he sounded like a man ready to answer that call. Posted by Greg Johns at December 18, 2009 1:16 p.m.
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Quote:
Holmgren sounded as if the Browns' situation, while not attractive to some, is perfect for his interests.
thanks for posting...
I actually don't remember him saying that.. I do remember him saying that the Cleveland job would be appealing to anyone.. The transcript that's posted confirms that.
The further this gets dragged out, the more convoluted the story becomes..
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Dave...thanks for the good read...
The fact that Holmgren seems to be very considerate toward everyone with the Browns, it would make sense that Mike would wait until after the Browns game with the Chiefs before saying anything about his plans.
I would think it would be Monday at the earliest before we hear any news from Holmgren concerning his decision.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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If that's the case, Mac, I could see him waiting until the end of the season. Not necessarily that I think he'll do that...
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Somebody mentioned earlier that Mrs Holmgren's reluctance to relocate might be a stumbling block to him taking the job, so at least this part was encouraging: Quote:
He mentioned driving around and looking at houses in Cleveland on Tuesday as part of the normal "fact-finding" that goes on a job search and said his wife Kathy is willing to relocate to Ohio, knowing he wants to work in the NFL again.
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Toad...you need to debate Holmgren, not me...since you and Mike have such differing viewpoints on Quinn.
You're carrying Quinn's flag, not Holmgren, therefore it IS with you I'm debating.
Furthermore, to have a debate, you have to have at least two parties in a discussion. Since Holmgren isn't in this discussion, he can't be debated with.
SPIN ON THAT HOOK, WORM, SPIN
Hey, he didn't shoot down Anderson, either. Maybe he thinks he can be the guy, too.
SPIN WORM SPIN
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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if you think otherwise, then who is responsible for this "not optimum situation"?
Gee, let me think....................How about the QB's who got benched?
Quinn was benched because he wouldn't do what he was told when running the offense. He got HIMSELF benched, just as Anderson got HIMSELF benched. If either plays well, either wins the job and keeps it.
So if there's an actual criticism pointed towards anywhere based on "thinly veiled" anything, it's at the QB's, the same QB's whom Holmgren refused to either endorse or indict.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I do seem to remember that and yeah, that is encouraging...
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I do disagree with you on your assessment of Gruden w/QBs. I think he's excellent. revolving door of QBs in Tampa...mainly cause they didn't have a QB.
They had one...........they had a pro-bowler one: Garcia. He tried replacing him with Greise and another guy if I remember correctly. All he did was post back-to-back years with ratings of 94 and 90, but Gruden kept trying to get a different guy in there.
He does have a rough history with being hard on QB's.
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What I cannot understand is anyone in this position - AND IS AWARE OF THE RULE...how can they proceed without making that their first move and priority of work. I mean I'm not in construction either but common sense tells me - I need a permit to built this thing...the first thing I do is not hire my crew, buy all the materials and then when I'm ready to pull the trigger and commence...Decide I might as well go get that PERMIT?!?!?!
My belief is that they did the same thing Washington did, which was to have a discussion with someone before Holmgren got here.
Keep that quote in mind where they said they've already been in contact with the league office. It's easy to read that and think they've simply called the league to clarify the rule, but when one really looks at it, it can also read in such a way as to suggest they've already complied with the rule and called the league to verify it.
The Deadskins did that. I'm certain we did as well. We just haven't announced who it was yet.
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On Zorn coming here as our QB coach...yeah I guess if there is no other gig...but I would ASSume if he did come it would be as OC after all that was what he was hired for at Wash...before the idiot owner messed that up.
I like Zorn. He has a long-standing great reputation with his players. The problem is that since they stripped him of his play-calling duties and went with that crazy two-coordinator system, a crazy thing happened: The offense got decidedly better.
So unfortunately for Zorn, his one crack at running the offense failed. He isn't guaranteed of landing an OC's job anywhere, which is why I think he may have to take a QB's coaching position again. A team could always take a chance on him, but I think they'd be very afraid, especially since the offense has responded so well since he was demoted.
I think he'd be a great addition to this team as a QB's coach. As an OC? Not so much.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I was just asking myself, why would a team like Washington or Cleveland not want to discuss any minority interviews..
Then it struck me,, embarrasment.. Say a team has it's sights set on a particular candidate (washington on Allen, Cleveland on Holmgren)
Knowing full well that those are the guys they are after, interviews with any minority candidate would be deemed a token interview..
But, if they keep the interviews confidential, then the level of potential embarrassment to the candidates is minimized..
Just thinking out loud
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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"They had one...........they had a pro-bowler one: Garcia."
Toad its not like you to make such poor attempt... 
Garcia? Ah you mean that Pro-Bowler Garcia...now one year removed from that season and he's playing WHERE? 3rd string with the Eagles? Oh no he was cut from there....Where is this GREAT QB...GOOD QB playing again?..and we are talking.
And you call it a negative on Gruden's part to look into the future as he saw the waning skills of Garcia. 
On the interview??? Possibly it is as you suggest...that would be nice and thank you for that perspective...but that means this thing might go TOO SMOOTH just doesn't seem right...lol
Zorn...there is a lot into coaching O than you think - its not that easy and black n white. You mean an offense doing better as the season goes along is something strange and unique?
Could be a lot of reasons....and of course your infactuation with the QB there has nothing to do with your outlook. Possibly Zorn was trying to build HIS OFFENSE and Campbell wasn't getting it. Possibly Zorn wasn't thinking TODAY enough and thinking about tomorrow cause he was also thinking as a HC not an OC. Possibly Campbell simply was not understanding the QB position and what little success they are getting is because is being laid out to what Campbell can handle which goes under a simplified Offense? Which will get them just where against a good D? We won't know cause they won't make the playoffs to face a playoff D.
Your black n white certainty with really not enough data of Zorn being an OC under the format that we would be providing...NOT AS HC...but as the OC with some intelligent ball players - thanks to the foundation criteria laid out by Mangini.
But - we can argue about this further IF n WHEN he becomes our OC  I just think your suggestion of certainty is based on slim facts and too much knee jerk reaction than common sense.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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