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And you call it a negative on Gruden's part to look into the future as he saw the waning skills of Garcia.
I'd give you that if he didn't try to replace him with the also waning skills of Greise. 
Besides, Gruden and his "look to the future" mentality got him to the same place as Garcia: The unemployment line 
Gruden doesn't look towards the future. He looks towards the present.
Besides, there's really no debate about Gruden. His reputation for chewing the spitting up QB's is well-known.
Gotta head to work, then it's home to pack where I'll be heading to the airport at 3:30am where I'll then be landing in Wooster around noon.
People, please: Hold the damned snow until I get there!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"I'd give you that if he didn't try to replace him with the also waning skills of Greise"
Excuse me...did we lose the meat of this discussion. Was it not I stating that there was a round robin at QB cause of the fact HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE. But nice to see you agree with me now.
I believe that is Game, Set and Match 
Wooster? not knowing the area I can only Assume you're heading back to Ohio to spend Christmas with family and Old friends 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Why even make this post?
I ask myself that question every time you've posted.
And then I ask myself, "Why even read this post?"
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I'm not the least bit worried about the Browns slipping up and not abiding by NFL rules, pertaining to the hiring process.
The Browns just need to know if they need to interview HC candidates, HC/GM candidates or Czar candidates.
I'm not worried, either. The fact that they called the league office tells me they want to be sure everything will be okay in that department.
As far as interviewing HC, HC/GM, etc, if they hire Holmgren as Czar, then the process might begin all over again for the other positions. Even if Holmgren wants either GM or HC in addition to Czar, once he's on board as Czar he can simply interview a few minority candidates before naming himself or having Lerner hire him for either/both of the other positions.
I think the main thing is to get him on board with a title, having complied with the Rooney rule. I doubt he'd fire Mangini now and take over as coach, so there'd be plenty of time to fill that position if necessary.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I bet Randy wished he never muttered the "Czar" word. He was too emotional and upset after Koko's meltdown and the bad season. He should have been calmer and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I think Randy lost it after Koko's meltdown and went to Holmgren asap. For whatever reason Holmgren didn't take the job and we are still messing around. It could have been a silent handshake agreement and wait to the end of the season, but things have changed some. Mangini has won over the lockerrom and beat Pittsburgh at home for the first time in 9 years. The Koko thing is in the rearview and Randy has warmed up to Mangini again. Remember, Mangini and Lerner spent about a whole week together last January. It would take alot to get rid of somebody you had a connection(from Randy's own words) with on a emotional level, more than any other coach since Al died. While he may be mad at Mangini for Koko(but Ernie A is as much to blame), Koko was shaping up to be a fine personal man. I wish he could have gotten through the adjustment of being the GM, but he could not.
So here we are. My guess is Randy has taken back his handshake for now with Holmgren which caused Holmgren to finally come down to Berea and see what was going on. Most likely Lerner is trying to force Holmgren and Mangini to work together. I doubt either Holmgren or Mangini like it causing the 'pause' we are seeing now. I think if you want Mangini out, you better hope he loses and loses ugly. The more he wins and performs serviceably with a rebuilding team, the more stubborn Lerner will become about letting anybody replace him as coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
Why even make this post?
I ask myself that question every time you've posted.
And then I ask myself, "Why even read this post?"
lol
I go out of town on business for a week, and come back to hopefully (fingers crossed) an early Christmas gift. All signs point to MH getting the job, but the real mystery may be what job he takes.
From the articles that were posted in this thread it makes me think he was offered any and all job titles in the organization...lol.....not good for Eric. If I had to guess he will end up being the TOP/GM of the team, and will hire his own coaches, scouting team,etc.
In other words he will set up the entire organization with his philosophy in mind, and everybody should be on the same page.....FINALLY!!!!
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Toad...you need to debate Holmgren, not me...since you and Mike have such differing viewpoints on Quinn.
You're carrying Quinn's flag, not Holmgren, therefore it IS with you I'm debating.
Furthermore, to have a debate, you have to have at least two parties in a discussion. Since Holmgren isn't in this discussion, he can't be debated with.
SPIN ON THAT HOOK, WORM, SPIN
Hey, he didn't shoot down Anderson, either. Maybe he thinks he can be the guy, too.
SPIN WORM SPIN
Toad...sure you can..debate Holmgren...since you and he have opposite views on what constitutes 3 yrs of experience in the NFL.
toad writes..."By ANY QB's 3rd year in the league, accuracy, poise, and mechanics should be sound, regardless of how many games they've started."
Holmgren said.. In Brady's case, he was a high draft pick. You can count the number of games he played, by third year if guy has played and played in one system, you know what you have. He isn't close approaching three years playing even though he's in his third year.
Toad, BTW, Quinn has not played in one system in his 3 yrs either...another point Holmgren and I agree on... 
I did catch Holmgren's brief comment on Anderson. Holmgren is likely asking himself what happened to that guy that QBed the Browns to a win over his Seahawks in 2007, and lite up the hawks defense up for over 360 yds.
Like I said, the Browns seem to have been better at ruining good QB prospects over the last couple of years than they have been at developing them.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Like I said, the Browns seem to have been better at ruining good QB prospects over the last couple of years than they have been at developing them.
We haven't really had a good QB prospect since...what? 1985?
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As far as the minority candidate debate. I think that when they interviewed Fred Nance it was for a position in the front office, but instead he accepted a position as "General Council". I assume this is an advisory position and not one with day to day responsibilities.
I think the Browns contacted the league to ask them if they met there obligation of interviewing a minority candidate when they interviewed Fred Nance even though he was eventially hired for a different position.
Just another thought that hasn't been discussed.
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Wooster? not knowing the area I can only Assume you're heading back to Ohio to spend Christmas with family and Old friends
Yeah,, Wooster is a town just south of Cleveland.. probably 1 hour or so,, Not sure if Toad will be back on line until he gets back home.. Guess we'll see later tonight or tomorrow..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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road,, not sure that qualifies,, but good catch..Guess we'll see pretty soon...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Who? Derek Anderson?  Go back and watch the tape from that year...he really didn't play all that well. Even in games where his stat line sparkled, he was still chucking into double coverage and being wildly inaccurate. It's somewhat similar to what Quinn's done the last few games -- bad QB play, good stat line.
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
PhilDawsonRocks...
Who? Derek Anderson?
Go back and watch the tape from that year...he really didn't play all that well.
3787 yds, 26 TDs, with a 10-5 record as a starter...
YES, ANDERSON...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Quote:
Why even make this post?
I ask myself that question every time you've posted.
And then I ask myself, "Why even read this post?"
lol
I go out of town on business for a week, and come back to hopefully (fingers crossed) an early Christmas gift. All signs point to MH getting the job, but the real mystery may be what job he takes.
From the articles that were posted in this thread it makes me think he was offered any and all job titles in the organization...lol.....not good for Eric. If I had to guess he will end up being the TOP/GM of the team, and will hire his own coaches, scouting team,etc.
In other words he will set up the entire organization with his philosophy in mind, and everybody should be on the same page.....FINALLY!!!!
But Holmgren isn't a Brown, hasn't been a Brown and may never be a Brown. How can he "hire" his own coaching staff when he isn't a Brown? Why should I read your nonsense when you can't even think for yourself?
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Spoony (sorry peen for the reminder..lol) none of your posts make any sense.........thus why everybody continues to make fun of you. Your right Holmgren isn't coming here, and Mangini is running the show  ........"Long Live Kiing Dolt"...lol. Now that we have that out of the way, the rest of us living in reality can discuss the current situation A possibility regarding the Rooney Rule being fulfilled could be the lady working in the FO currently that was mentioned in an earlier article as a possibility. I ASSume she would qualify because of her gender. If we have interviewed her already than the rule would have been satisfied, and we probably wouldn't have heard about that interview considering she works for us.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Mort just announced the Hawks met with Holmgren this weekend, made an unspecified proposal, no deal, he's moving on! 
#GMSTRONG
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Yep, I saw that.
Wow, must have not been enough...
you had a good run Hank.
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Oh yeah,, Wooster is a pretty place,,, real middle america.. no doubt,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Tulsa... was there any indication of the proposal at all,, anything?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Mort said it was an unspecified deal.
My guess is someone will have it soon. Seems like it just came out.
you had a good run Hank.
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Great news!!!! Thanks for posting. This is all looking like Holmgren is the new "czar" in the coming days. Of course we've all had our hearts ripped out before at times like this, but the signs point to MH taking the job  Come on Big Show!!!!
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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here ya go,,, 6 min ago Holmgren declines Seattle's job offerComment Email Print Share ESPN.com news services The Seattle Seahawks offered a job to former coach Mike Holmgren in a "senior leadership position," but Holmgren declined the offer, the team announced Saturday. NFC West blog ESPN.com's Mike Sando writes about all things NFC West in his division blog. • Blog network: NFL Nation Holmgren, who has also interviewed with the Cleveland Browns for their director of football operations position, met with members of the Seahawks staff, including CEO Tod Leiweke. "I sincerely thank Paul Allen and Tod for all their support over the years," Holmgren said in a statement. "I thank them for reaching out to me and we conclude these discussions as friends." Leiweke said the team met with Holmgren after becoming aware of the time he spent with the Browns and the "associated time pressures" from that situation. "We hold Mike in high regard and wish the Holmgren family the very best with their new horizons," Leiweke said. It is presumed the Browns offered Holmgren the job during his visit and it appears he is weighing his options, which could include several other teams in the days and weeks ahead. Jim Donovan, the Browns' play-by-play announcer, reported Wednesday night that Cleveland's offer to Holmgren is for between $8 million and $10 million per season. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4757967
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/19/09 11:04 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4757967That's the link... Well, this was, IMO, the only thing that could stop him from coming to Cleveland.
you had a good run Hank.
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Thanks man,, I forgot to add the link, I went back and added it and then noticed you did the same,., Really,, thank you for covering my backsidel..LOL Cool,, Good to have friends....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I got a feeling we will have a press conference by the middle of the week. I agree with you this was the biggest hurdle in getting MH on board. You have to believe we offered him the keys to the kingdom (as has been reported I know) for him to turn down the Hawks.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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It's going to be a very Merry Christmas after all!
#GMSTRONG
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The Seattle Seahawks offered a job to former coach Mike Holmgren in a "senior leadership position," but Holmgren declined the offer, the team announced Saturday.
I'm a little surprised no one finds this strange...especially since MH wanted the Hawks to contact him..had to be the type of job offer wasn't what he wanted...
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Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
It is presumed the Browns offered Holmgren the job during his visit and it appears he is weighing his options, which could include several other teams in the days and weeks ahead.
This part scares me.
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Everything I've read says the Seahawks really like Mora jr. and didn't want to bring back MH as GM, becuase they didn't want to put Mora in an uncomfortable position.
I have a feeling they offered him a title with no authority, and he said thanks but no thanks.
T
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Quote:
I have a feeling they offered him a title with no authority, and he said thanks but no thanks..
That's my take on it as well.
Why take a "Paper Lion" post, when you can be The Man in a place that actually shows that it wants you?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Toad...sure you can..debate Holmgren...since you and he have opposite views on what constitutes 3 yrs of experience in the NFL.
SPIN WORM SPIN!
Still waiting on that negative comment...............Can't find one, can ya.
You can stop, Mac. It's Christmas. I'll let you...................off the hook..... :eek:
Until you can show a negative comment you can't win, spin how you might. Holmgren isn't going to say a negative thing about anyone or anybody until he gets the job. Maybe he thinks Quinn can be good, maybe he thinks he's a bum. Who knows. You don't because he won't say anything bad about anyone at this point, therefore you should have really thought twice about carrying around his comments as an indicator you're right and a bunch of us whom you named were wrong. Bad tactic. You got caught.
DANGLE WORM DANGLE!
Eo, yeah, Wooster is about 50 minutes southwest of Cleveland. As Bard said, it's a smallish town. Lots of Amish. Wooster college (Liberal arts). Will be landing around 1pm. Interesting to read you're from there, Bard. 
As for Holmgren, Seahawks probably did what was speculated before, which was that he wouldn't have full control there, but would have to answer to the CEO. Here, he won't have to do that, not in terms of football decisions. Falcons? I've no idea.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Very encouraging to see him turn down the Hawks. I'm not going to get my hopes too high, however, but I am cautiously optimistic.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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That's great news! I think he was holding out to see if the Seahawks would give him all of the control he wanted. Now that Seattle is out of the picture, I don't see anything else keeping him from Cleveland. I'm hoping he'll accept the Cleveland offer in the next day or two.
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Quote:
The Seattle Seahawks offered a job to former coach Mike Holmgren in a "senior leadership position," but Holmgren declined the offer, the team announced Saturday.
I'm a little surprised no one finds this strange...especially since MH wanted the Hawks to contact him..had to be the type of job offer wasn't what he wanted...
The guy would have had to take on a front office that was either hot or cold to him returning there. In Cleveland it's pretty hot and if not he can dismiss whoever is a malcontent. I believe he mentioned the feeling of REALLY being wanted in his Friday radio interview and how much he felt that here. Randy put his best foot forward last week and it looks like he's gonna score the best KNOWN available gut of the offseason!
Nice job RL!!!
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Quote:
The Seattle Seahawks offered a job to former coach Mike Holmgren in a "senior leadership position," but Holmgren declined the offer, the team announced Saturday.
I'm a little surprised no one finds this strange...especially since MH wanted the Hawks to contact him..had to be the type of job offer wasn't what he wanted...
Looking back, I think the Seahawks would have had egg on thier face if they hadn't at least made a token offer of a job to him..
Thier fans sound like they wanted him back so maybe it wasn't meant to be accepted but instead meant to satisfy the fans...
I can see it now,, Leweke says: Hey, we offered him a sr. management position but another team offered him somethimg he liked better.
Just a guess of course,,, but I bet that's what it was...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Pretty much says the same thing., just an article from about 8 hours ago Quote:
Holmgren declines offer to rejoin Seahawks in senior position
Associated Press
RENTON, Wash. -- The Seattle Seahawks have said that Mike Holmgren will not rejoin the team.
The Seahawks talked with Holmgren over the weekend about a senior leadership position.
For more on the Cincinnati Bengals, check out the latest from our Seahawks bloggers.
» Blog Blitz: Bengals
"After a series of respectful discussions, Mike has declined our offer to rejoin the team given the structure we proposed," Seahawks CEO Tod Leiweke said in a statement. "We hold Mike in high regard and wish the Holmgren family the very best with their new horizons."
The 61-year-old Holmgren won a Super Bowl with the Packers and led the Seahawks to their only Super Bowl appearance as a head coach.
"I sincerely thank Paul Allen and Tod for all their support over the years," Holmgren said in a statement. "I thank them for reaching out to me and we conclude these discussions as friends."
Holmgren has also been interested in joining the Cleveland Browns. He spent two days meeting with Browns owner Randy Lerner earlier this week.
Holmgren said on his radio show in Seattle on Friday that he planned to give Lerner an answer "sooner than later" but added there was no definite timetable. It may have accelerated after he declined an offer to rejoin the Seahawks.
"It's a wonderful opportunity for anybody," Holmgren said of his visit to Cleveland. "It's about as good a job situation as you could ask for in this business."
Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press
Look at that,, I remembered the link LOL
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5...mp;confirm=true
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren - Part 2
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