DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Coaches Holgrem may hire??

I know their is already a Holgrem thread but that one is more about him possibly taking a position with the Browns in the front office. I would like to start another thread to discuss the headcoaching possibilities should he be hired. Instead of cluttering that other thread.

Retain Eric Mangini- Some may think this is a long shot and certainly the media believes it is. I can't say I don't blame them for that line of thinking and it makes sense but Mangini may deserve another year. With him just focusing on coaching instead of wearing all of the hats he may be more effective. His core fundamentals of disciplined football with high character guys is a good one. And the media and the fans have made him look far worse than he actually is.

Mike Sherman- This would be an interesting name and he does have a decent resume.He was 57-39 with his stint in Green Bay. 3 division titles. Out of his 6 years there he had 5 winning seasons. His last year there was the only time he had a bad record and that year he lost Ahman Green, Javon Walker, and Bubba Franks to injury that season. He was gm for that team during a 3 or 4 year period and didn't do a bad job. He drafted Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, Corey Williams, and Scott Wells. He also traded for cornerback Al Harris. Sherman's 1st draft pick was Javon Walker who made the Pro Bowl in 2004. Not a bad track record. And if he came to Cleveland he wouldn't be the gm but could give some nice input having done that before. Now I know having Brett Favre on your team will make a coach look good. But all things considering, he didn't have a bad track record.

Steve Mariucci- Another Holgrem assistant who had a 57-39 record in San Fran. 4 winning years out of 6. Two division titles four playoff appearances. Was fired after a winning season and division title because of a power struggle with 9ers gm Terry Donahue. After that he was hired by Detroit and didn't have success but that was under Matt Millen's reign where noone could do anything in Detroit. Comes highly recommended by Favre who wanted him to coach Green Bay after Sherman was fired. Interviewed for The Redskins job a few years ago but Snyder hired Zorn instead.

Marty Mornhinweg- He was speculated by Mort on The Colin Cowherd show a few days ago. Another guy from the Holgrem tree. As many know he was a coach in Detroit and didn't fair so well. Was it his ineptness or just the whole structure there with Matt Millen? Has had success has an o-coordinator for the 9ers which got him the Detroit job and has had current success in Philly has their o-coordinator. This one makes me go ugh and would be my last choice. If he were hired you would hope he learned from his mistakes in Detroit and picked up something from Andy Reid. And that the Lions organization made him look worse than he was. Maybe he would have some success under a Holgrem regime where he was comfortable.

Jim Harbaugh- Everyone knows his brother John is the coach for the Ravens and worked under Andy Reid for yearts in Philly . Its a loose connection through Reid but one that may be explored. He seems to be getting some looks with the success of his brother in Baltimore.

Jon Gruden- Some say his contract is ironclad with ESPN and he will not coach in 2010. He may be an option if we retain Mangini one more year and it doesn't work out. Born in the Cleveland area and understands The Browns tradition.


SO what do you all think Holgrem will do with the coaching position if he takes the job? Any other names from his coaching tree you think could be a viable candidate?

Does this really need it's own thread?

Yeah I think so. Its more specific. The other Holgrem threads are 9 pages long and are more about the front office postion. This is specifically about coaches. And this is going to be a hot topic should he be hired. If you don't like a thread you do not have to post in it or respond to it. Its fairly simple. I skip over threads I don't have an interest in. You should do the same.


Now back on topic about coaching.

I have interest in this thread, it's just the 9 page long all encompassing Holmgren thread is better than creating your own thread.

Whatever, in either case, I do not want nor do I see Chucky coming here to coach. He's not good at developing young players and is a subpar coach.

I'd be interested in both Mooch and Mornhinwig for coaches. Mooch went from penthouse to outhouse and never got a job...still interesting to me. Mornhinwig just got screwed by one horrible call and being the coach of the Detroit Lions, ust like Mooch.

I have no interest in Jim Harbaugh simply because I'm not a fan of hiring college coaches because of their lack of success.

I would be very interested in Sherman, but I think he will prefer the college game to me.

I have very little interest in retaining Mangini. I'm very interested in retain PARTS of his staff *Brian Cox, maybe Rob Ryan* but I have probably no interest in seeing Mangini have another year. He doesn't fit, IMO, in Holmgren's system.

I would be ok with EM staying on if a guy like Holmgren deems EM worthy...but I would not take anyone else's opinion to keep EM.

I would be ok with all the guys you listed with the possible exception of Marty M...then again...if a guy like Holmgren says Marty is the guy then I will be ok with it.

I still won't be surprised if Holmgren coaches as well as plays GM.

First of all,,while I'm not a Ref,, I really don't see a thing wrong with starting this thread..

I'm beginning to think that IF Holmgren comes aboard, he'll probably keep Mangini for the first year. See how he does. he does well, he's got the job longer,, he flounders,, he's gone.

So IMO, Mangini remains. The question is,, who does he bring in as OC this year cause I don't believe for a second that MH will keep Daboll..

Next year, it could be any of those you named.. not sure the Harbaugh connection is anything very strong... But Gruden, Morningwig, Mooch.. Oh yeah.. I can even see Zorn coming here.. Not as HC, but OC or QB Coach.....

I remember seeing a video of most of those guys in a room together, game planning for an upcoming packers game. Talk about somethimg that looks like it was Good Times..

I can see a group of guys like that again.. Mooch as a TV gig, same with Gruden.. not sure where the Wig is..

Mohrninweg is OC for Philly.

OH MY GOD... WHY WOULD YOU START THIS THREAD!!!!!

jk...

I'm leaning toward keeping Mangini... if he finishes out winning 2 of 3. I really think you have to think hard about not getting rid of him. Finishing .500 for the last 6 games. with this roster.. if you could give him some more talent to work with I don't see why we couldn't turn it around.

Shanahan


















































Kyle Shanahan, that is.

H-O-L-M-G-R-E-N

Not Holgrem, Holmgrin, Homegrin, Holngrem, Holmgrun...

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My feeling is that Holmgren may want to be actively involved with the coaching staff for the first year or two, I would not be suprised if he decided to coach for a year, before moving into the front office full time.

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He isn't going to do that, and here's why........we are an organization in constant turmoil, and need STABILITY. It wouldn't be very stable to fire a HC, hire yourself, and then fire yourself a year or two down the line. If he's going to coach then you can bet that he's going to remain the coach until he's canned or retires.

I still think he's going to end up as the TOP/GM, and hire his own people. Considering the lack of familiarity he has with EM and the glaring fact that they aren't similar in the least when it comes to philosophy........if we get Holmgren (is that right Kardiac..lol) then Mangini is as good as gone.

I kind of like Mornhinwig, and wouldn't be upset with Mooch either. Gruden isn't coming here, and I really don't want Sherman as anything other than a coordinator.......jmho.

i could see holmgren pulling a pat riley, keeping mangini until this team is ready to be serious about making the playoffs.

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H-O-L-M-G-R-E-N

Not Holgrem, Holmgrin, Homegrin, Holngrem, Holmgrun...

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Of course, from the way many posters are geeked about this, one could easily make a case for spelling his name:

H-O-M-E ;; R-U-N.


just sayin'...

Come on K12,, relax,, I can remember people mispelling RAC

I would cross Mike Sherman and Jim Harbaugh off that list. Both of them have very good QB's coming back next year (Johnson and Luck) and both get paid pretty well (Sherman almost $2 million , Harbaugh was making $1 million before his extension.)

Of the coaches you mentioned I like Mariucci the best. He was successful in San Francisco, then went to the Lions were he had Matt Millen picking players for him.

Some other guys I think we might see interviewed:

Darrell Bevell, offensive coordinator of the Vikings, he has been with Childress pretty much his whole career and he was with the Packers from 2000 to 2005. He definitely has an understanding of the West Coast offense.

Leslie Frazier, defensive coordinator of the Vikings, he has gotten interviewed for head coach openings the past couple years but never got hired (he does fulfill the Rooney Rule.) Doesn't really have a background with Holmgren but will his name will probably be mentioned as a possibility. Led the 1985 Bears in interceptions and was in the Super Bowl video.

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know why on earth people keep saying HOLMGREM, it's HOLMGREN.

j/c

I think Mangini gets another year to prove his worth, I can see Mooch coming here as OC and HC-in-waiting,

I don't want Mornhinweg . Wasn't he the coach that got fed up with practice at Detriot that he got on a motorcycle and left practice?

Irregardless . . . I'd be all for giving the job to some first timer.

I like the Mooch for OC line of reasoning here.

Let's face it. Mangini is the GM of the Browns. RL hired Mangini and then Mangini hired George Kokinis. The tail was (is) wagging the dog in our organization. I've never heard of a situation where the head coach is hired first and then he has major input on who the owner hires as the GM. The power struggle alone that would occur between Holmgren and Mangini would continue to keep our team and organization in constant turmoil.

I know I'm tired of house cleaning in Cleveland but the truth of the matter is that RL has never done good, accurate, thorough, house cleaning. He's rounded off the corners with the sweeper and failed to lift everything off of the stands and tables prior to dusting. He's left too many dust bunnies running around the room. Frankly, I'd love to see RL say, "Here, Mike. Run it. It's yours. I'll write the checks and you tell me to whom and how much."

Even from our return in '99 we took what meager pickings we could get in coaching and administration. None of the pieces ever fit together. Since then, we've been carving up pieces and pulling one piece to make a square fit in a triangular hole. Our organization has not truly been cleaned. It's just been mutated from one genetic disaster to another. RL keeps putting the man-fly back into the machine and tossing in a goose, or waffle-iron and RL pushes the button again to see what pops out now.

Bring Holmgren in here. Give him complete control. More control then any other GM has ever had. RL knows as much about football as I do about Victoria's Secrets. (Stop it! Those rumors are NOT true.)

If MH thinks Mangini has it then he may keep him.

I'm just having a hard time believing that the guy will make this kind of splash then keep a coach who has fairly or unfairly generated sooo much negative press under him! He then must answer 6000 questions about "why, why did you keep him"? Now, he is a great guy and may give his "fairness" speech.
But this will most likely be his swan song, a big part of his legacy. I'm not sold Eric will be his guy as HC...he may well be on staff somewhere, but...

I read somewhere yesterday that EM practiced the team for 3.5 hours on Thursday in pads. Isn't that one of the issues the players were complaining about? I wonder what Holmgren's take would be on that?

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I'm just having a hard time believing that the guy will make this kind of splash then keep a coach who has fairly or unfairly generated sooo much negative press under him!

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See, that right there is maybe the best argument for dumping mangini.. as you say,, fairly or unfairly, he's really ticked off the bulk of the fan base.. he's alienated the press as well.

MH may have to cut bait just so he doesn't have to deal with the negativity surronding Mangini...

Personally, I hate that. I'd rather he make his decision based on other things rather that perception by fans and media..

How about he make the decision based on Mangini's amateurish, high school offense, poor or no half-time adjustments, and really weak personnel decisions - both in regards to playing time and his one stab at the draft?

How about he makes the decision based on 2-11?

The face of the organization will become Holmgren (if he comes here), this will happen almost instantly and if he keeps EM around he'll neuter him and tighten that leash to such a degree that I don't think it will really matter who's called HC, that guy will only be marching to Holmgren's drum. With Holmgren being suck a likable and intelligent guy, the fans and the press are going to be just fine. JMO

i have to laugh at the thought of Mooch becoming the offensive coordinator. No way he leaves his cushy tv booth for an OC gig. Head coach is a different story.

Just say NO to Bevell sp? as well. For all of the toys he has to play with, he really lacks imagination.

Frazier is a Tampa Two disciple, rather than the west coast offense.

Mike Sherman makes some sense, same with Morningweg (sp? again)

I think Gruden would want too much control, so i don't see that one happening even if he does have an "out" in his contract.

How about Trestman? Isn't he a WCO as well.

This is a nice layout of the Walsh family tree.

Walsh Family Tree

That's an impressive group of coaches. Plus, you kind of go full circle when you add that Walsh was from the Paul Brown coaching tree (even if it was in Cinci).

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How about he make the decision based on Mangini's amateurish, high school offense, poor or no half-time adjustments, and really weak personnel decisions - both in regards to playing time and his one stab at the draft?

How about he makes the decision based on 2-11?

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I got no issue with that.. I just don't want him being weak and making decisions based on fan pressure or Media pressure...

J/C

Holmgren has been quoted as saying Lerner gave him the options of whatever he wants IE HC/GM/President, etc

Mike Holmgren still has that itch to be on the sidelines

don't be surprised for one second if Holmgren isn't Vice President of Football Operations AND Head Coach

there are only TWO men in the NFL qualified to run the whole show:

1. Parcells
2. Holmgren

I would be fine with Holmgren running the whole show and coaching for a few reason.

1. Holmgren learned from 1 of the best in Ron Wolf from Green Bay.
2. He learned for his mistakes the 1st time around in Seattle.
3. this time he will hire "his" Heckert much like Andy Reid did to take some pressure off of him.

Holmgren didn't have a Heckert in Seattle..this time he won't make that mistake.

Holmgren will have final say here, however don't be suprised if he is also the Head Coach

Holmgren still wants to coach, and Randy Lerner wanted him last year and is willing to do whatever it takes to get him.

Holmgren is a "great" game day coach, and the guy knows talent...he will hire his Heckert like Reid has in Philly this time to help delegate some stuff

I sincerely hope Holmgren takes over the whole ship AND coaches for a few years...this team needs a "real" HC...Holmgren is a bona fide proven winning head coach that can instill some real culture here....he would be the first head coach we have had since Schotenheimer.....this team needs that more than anything

i figure after 4 or 5 years though that Holmgren will then move full-time into the office and appoint a guy off his staff from within to be the Head coach..once the philosphy has been instilled

Not at all a far fetched scenario. A good assistant is all he'd need.

I must admit I get a bit giddy thinking of hm on our sidelin as our HC!

Holmgren's evaluation begins today.

The guys you mentioned are all from his tree. There maybe others where the connections are not as well known.

The Big Show will I'm sure be understanding to Mangini's position. However, at the end of the day I doubt Mangini will survive.

Mangini would have to give up to much authority. Number one Holmgren will run the WCO. That means Daboll is gone. Holmgren will have "influence" on the decisions regarding the whole coaching staff. Which of means Mangini will have little. It just does not add up.

I could envision a scenario where Mangini stays for a year but I doubt it.

I have no idea about any previous relationship between Ryan and Holmgren. Mike maybe open to running the 3/4 given the personnel on the team.

Mariucci was QB coach before being a HC and is a good offensive mind. However, I have no idea where his head is at regarding coaching. A studio job is much less demanding.

Sherman is a solid football guy and could very well be a strong candidate.

Mornhinweg I am sure would bolt for a HC job but I am not sure about him. His tenure in Detroit is hard to judge because of Millan and the overall state of their franchise at that time.

I would love Gruden but MNF is no studio job and my guess is the deal is iron clad for 3 years.

Harbaugh is a reach because of the obvious reason of no NFL HC experience. However, working for Holmgren directly would give him a mentor and teacher so the transition would not be as hard.

I am just excited and will accept what Holmgren decides. He is the Big Show and outside of Ozzie and Parcell's (who I knew would not leave Miami) he is guy I wanted. Mike Holmgren has done it all. Now he gets to put together his legacy and resurrect a storied franchise and put his bust in the HOF.