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In short, can Mangini and Holmgren co-exist as HC and GM/Executive VP?
Of course.... if he does as he's told like a good boy 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"How about the way he botched the QB competion from the get-go? How about the fact that not one, but two QB's regressed badly from previous levels of play?"
All that tells me is that you didn't bother to read my post 
2 2nd round picks not playing much at all. Yeah thats disappointing. Look my personal preference doesn't have us taking WRs early anyways. But I'm able to step back and look at what Mangini was trying to do. We were not going to pursue BE and needed investments made to be able to pick up the slack in 2010 we didn't know about 2009 bringing that need sooner. But as far as assessing the final worth to this organization regarding DV and Robo...I don't know, I see Robo playing real hard on Special Teams now and I got a feeling we will see more of him on the O side of the ball. Stuckey is pretty good and will be hard to beat out. DV??? no clue on him at all. He did not win any spots on ST...and when I see Constanzo and Hall I understand why. Is he in a doghouse? I don't know. All I do know is when we see more of him it will be easier to assess. But you know what...if one or two out of the 4 impact picks don't make it? It ain't the end of the earth...it will be great if one or more MAKE IT...that is important.
btw...the kid on the Chargers...Vincent Jackson a 2nd round pick. His first 2 season he stunk and many were calling him a bust. Oh and his first season just active for 8 games and started none. Became a full time starter IN HIS 3rd SEASON and actually last season (his 4th) is when he started making a name for himself.
Its not an easy position for transition. You know all of the THEY ARE BUMS crowd just might be right. But sorry it has nothing to do with your eye for talent just an educated guess I assume. (the assumption is "educated") How anyone can tell me for sure Robo won't be a stud 2-3 years from now, I don't know. Too many before him just didn't show up till down the road.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Will Mangini be able to operate as a HC without having full control over the roster and over the hiring and firing of his coaching staff? How is Mangini going to handle changes in personnel/draft/free agents? What if Holmgren wants to get rid of some of Mangini's NY Jets and bring in some of his Seahawks?
Lets put it this way...if he's allowed to stay as HC..then he'll have to handle it...it'll be some cold waters if he's fired because he doesn't want to BUY into the plan..
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Toad...yes, it's possible that Holmgren keeps Mangini another year but I do wonder how Mangini adjusts to the changes that could be coming his way.
He'd have to adjust because the alternative is to be fired, and the odds are very much against him landing another HC gig next year.
So it's either adjust and keep making the big money and calling the shots as HC, or it's hope to land a coordinators job. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DV??? no clue on him at all. He did not win any spots on ST...and when I see Constanzo and Hall I understand why. Is he in a doghouse? I don't know. All I do know is when we see more of him it will be easier to assess.
Exactly, our special teams is pretty good. I'm not worried about DV's special team's performance.
He also is making a position change. Next year I expect to see big things out of Veikune. if not, then I will begin calling bust. Same thing with MoMMass and Robiskie. It's how they bounce back after this difficult season, what they do to improve themselves for next year. And that doesn't mean stop playing hard this year, it's work hard for the rest of this year and have a very good offseason and camp.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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If Paul Brown hoisted his moldering carcass from the grave to coach there would be folks start to grumble!
Hey, I don't really have a problem with it. It's not my money. But that is a TON of chinkage (as the cool kids say) for ANY type of front office/exec. job in the NFL. Talk about raising the bar... For any team thinking of hiring the next 'czar', Randy Lerner just took that bar and placed it on top of the Empire State Building.
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Think about it this way.......
He was getting $7 million per year to be the Team Pres as well as head coach in Seattle, so $10 million per year isn't that huge of a jump.
Must be nice to have that kind of money to throw around.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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When your an organization with the reputation for ineptness the last few years as we have been, you need to give that extra incentive to swing things back your way.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I get all that. I just know that it will appear to many that Randy Lerner is just 'buying his way" toward becoming a winning football organization, which I don't have a problem with. Whatever it takes, IMO. But it kinda reminds me of what the Redskins do in Free Agency every year. This is kinda like the Free Agency season for successful former NFL head coaches.
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Legend
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Other option:
Sit at home and spend Lerner's money while he waits to become HC at some college.
If Mangini is told to pack his things it maybe a long time coming before he gets offered another NFL HC job.
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I am tired of the rumor mill, but a grapevine on fire sometimes is worth watching. I would like Holmgren here if he can ramp up the offense. Defense is going to be better with some of the 20's out of it. I wanna winner, and hope all the trolls take off. Discipline is OK, and so is winning. I was glad to see us win a track meet meself, and that was a big test IMO. Tired of blackouts. Apparently losing some of the slack starters helped us a bit. Our TEAM won. Try not to lose track of that. Don't fix blame; fix problems! Go Browns! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Good Lord. Even if the answer is no, just announce it already, Holmgren.
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Legend
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Quote:
Will Mangini be able to operate as a HC without having full control over the roster and over the hiring and firing of his coaching staff? How is Mangini going to handle changes in personnel/draft/free agents? What if Holmgren wants to get rid of some of Mangini's NY Jets and bring in some of his Seahawks?
Lets put it this way...if he's allowed to stay as HC..then he'll have to handle it...it'll be some cold waters if he's fired because he doesn't want to BUY into the plan..
I think Mangini knows that this is his shot. If he can't figure out a way to get on Holmgrens good side and show at least a year or two of improvement, he isn't going to land another head coaching job in the NFL... at least without going back to be a coordinator for a long time. There are too many other good candidates out there that haven't had one shot and he will have had two already.
And I just don't see his style translating well to college.
yebat' Putin
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I hear you! I keep checking and rechecking to see if there is any news yet.
Its 4pm almost east coast time!!!
It would be nice to announce it right before monday night football. Give the heads something to talk about.
Last edited by AkBrownsfan; 12/21/09 04:49 PM.
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Legend
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If he can't figure out a way to get on Holmgrens good side and show at least a year or two of improvement, he isn't going to land another head coaching job in the NFL.  Who was it that blew their dome when I said that two weks ago?
Pete(not Petey Dangerous)or whatever his name is
As low as he's regarded in the league no team would hire him right now..none.
Not as a HC.
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In keeping Mangini around kind of reduces the perceived power Holmgren is supposed to have. Makes it look like he was forced to or agreed to do it. Now we Browns fans might be somewhat acceptable to it but the media will eat him alive!
Having said that I can't be sure what MH really cares what they'd say so anythings possible I guess.
My final thought is he goes...
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Legend
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In keeping Mangini around kind of reduces the perceived power Holmgren is supposed to have. Makes it look like he was forced to or agreed to do it.
Only to those that can't live without a conspiracy theory...LOL
For A while he's been saying that 1 year isn't enough time to judge a HC..
Some guys, I'd think what your saying has Merit,, but MH,, just doesn't sound like the kinda guy that would try and pull the wool over our eyes.. Just strikes me as honest and straight up..
I'm guessing that if he didn't want Mangini and Lerner said he had to keep him, he'd turn and walk away..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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#gmstrong
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In keeping Mangini around kind of reduces the perceived power Holmgren is supposed to have. Makes it look like he was forced to or agreed to do it. Now we Browns fans might be somewhat acceptable to it but the media will eat him alive!
I tend to disagree with that. In fact I think just the opposite would happen. Especially if we win another game (or two) and finish on a high note... then Holmgren gives Mangini his blessing to stay. I think that the media, instead of bashing Holmgren, would actually start being more receptive of Mangini... JMHO.
Holmgren is never going to come out and say that Mangini has a year to prove himself and show improvement but I think that is what he would be thinking...
yebat' Putin
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I tend to disagree with that. In fact I think just the opposite would happen. Especially if we win another game (or two) and finish on a high note... then Holmgren gives Mangini his blessing to stay. I think that the media, instead of bashing Holmgren, would actually start being more receptive of Mangini... JMHO.
I based it on just how bad the media seems to hate the guy. I'm pretty certain the guy aint the villain he's portrayed as but I'm not sure just how much their perception of him will turn.
Holmgrens a straight up, honest guy who I figure has many of the character demands Mangini has so EM has that going for him. Again, whatever the guy decides I've made my mind up to roll with it and see where it goes!
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I would use the evil twitter...but I can't.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
has anything definate been posted as of yet?
Not a freakin word... the silence is deafening...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
has anything definate been posted as of yet?
Not a freakin word... the silence is deafening...
Randy called him "Czar Michael" and Holmgren told him to shove it!
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They're probably working out the final details on the property in Antigua about now.
#GMSTRONG
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#gmstrong
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
It is official!
Mike Holmgren agrees to join Cleveland. web page
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Florio can be such an ass sometimes. Mike Holmgren joins the Browns Posted by Mike Florio on December 21, 2009 6:30 PM ET Former Packers and Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren was expected to give the Browns an answer on Monday regarding whether he'd accept an employment off from the team. He has given them an answer. And the answer is yes. Holmgren has agreed to become President of the team. Mike Keenan, who previously occupied that role, will become the team's CFO. "We are pleased to announce that Mike Holmgren has agreed to join the Cleveland Browns," owner Randy Lerner in a statement released by the team. "We will spend the rest of the week finalizing the details of the agreement and will make a formal announcement next week, at which time we will make him available to the media." We're not sure what Lerner envisions by way of a "formal announcement" next week, given that the news of Holmgren's arrival has been, you know, formally announced by the team. Maybe there will be a party, complete with confetti and cake and a special appearance by Eric the Clown. Which, of course, that might be the current head coach's trade name come 2010. Link
#GMSTRONG
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![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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So hopefully a stable foundation has been laid.
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From the Browns Site Quote:
Holmgren agrees to join Browns
12.21.2009
The Cleveland Browns announced today that Mike Holmgren has agreed to become club President. The team also has announced that Mike Keenan will transition to the role of Chief Financial Officer.
"We are pleased to announce that Mike Holmgren has agreed to join the Cleveland Browns," said Owner Randy Lerner. "We will spend the rest of the week finalizing the details of the agreement and will make a formal announcement next week, at which time we will make him available to the media."
Next up,, a Chief Personal guy... Might have the title of GM..might not.. Dunno..
Then a decision on Mangini at the end of the season..
I'm so happy I could........nevermind 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Finally!! Looking forward to the press conference.. 
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren - Part III
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