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Not to nit pick, but the poison pill was related to how many games would be played in the state of Washington. Hutch had an escalator from MN that provided a $Bazillion dollars in bonus if he played more than five games a year in WA.
Holmgren and Seattle were outmanuvered and lost perhaps the best G in the NFL.
Once it happened they were trapped, but they never should have let it get there in the first place.
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Legend
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that's your opinion,, I don't agree
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
It doesn't take an engineer to know that if you hire someone to start building you an airplane and then fire them -only to hire someone new to convert it into a submarine - and then fire them to have someone convert it back to an airplane - that the end result is your going to have a very expensive airplane that can't fly and but has a periscope.
Nice try...but it's football so whichever expert you hire, football will still be being played. We have no decent players to play either formation.
Lerner wised up and eliminated himself from the equation.
That's solid thinking. 
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Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/23/09 04:24 PM.
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Quote:
Randy isn't hiring anyone to modify a scheme
Exactly, and I dare say, he never has hired anyone to modify scheme.. he's hired folks to run the damn football team... This time, I think he's gotten it right but only time will tell...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I'll admit I'm in La-La Land if you admit you're in Never-Never Land (Quinn will NEVER be good, Mangini will NEVER get a clue, Browns will NEVER turn the corner, I will NEVER stop to wonder why a majority of people on this board have me on 'ignore').
For the record: I said 1. and 2. ....not the rest, that's your "interpretation" of my "posting sound"...why should the Browns NOT turn the corner? Every team can...they just need a competent FO/coaching staff and QB...we lack both right now  ....I could care less about guys on here having me on ignore....I'm sure it's better this way even though I don't use it...when I don't want to read some poster I just won't.....hence I take the ignore function as compliment 
I admit the RB comparison was slim....but it got my point across: the reason put forward by posters to KEEP Mangini are the same when he arrived....he has NOT progressed folks, he is what he is...and the guy comes across as being pretty stubborn, I don't think he'll change his "style" now....
I find it telling that folks on here just ignore facts....we are talking about a guy, that got demoted as DC under Bellichik his last season in NE and who got his hand picked GM and babysitter kicked off the team...his buddy is now running a lawsuit against HIS boss, Mr Lerner...he picked another buddy to try out as OC, who NEVER IN HIS CAREER CALLED PLAYS AT ANY LEVEL (not screaming, just as spoiler)...his FA/draft aquisitions suck for the most part, none of em is league average (maybe Coleman, debatable, I don't think so, but then again..he's probably at his age-performance peak...so, this is as good as he'll get)...his draft picks have little POSITIVE impact (Mack is coming along...but hey, he was the 1st interior OL drafted and the highest drafted C this decade...we CAN expect something, right?)
It took Mangini almost an entire season to get his team to play competitive football (still BAD competitive..but hey, better than batting practice fodder, right?)....they are playing at the same level as RAC's teams of the past (we weren't blown out often under RAC....I'd even say that you'll need 2 RAC years to match the games we've been blown out already under EM)....so he took us from bad to College Fottball level and back to bad...and you guys want to keep him because you see "progress"? From what? Where is your benchmark for "improvement" gone? I've seen guys call teh SD game "progress"...a home game with a 3 score deficit in the 3rd Qtr  It's sad...that is where EM brought us....he lowered all expectations of what is "really" good or improvement....he got a lot of you folks with his "plan/process" jibberish....look at the games and facts folks, the guy is doing a poor job and he will get the boot for it....well desevered boot
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
The main reason Seattle lost Hutchinson was because the Vikings offer sheet had a so-called "Poison Pill" that said Hutchinson had to make more than Walter Jones, whom Seattle had just signed to a huge deal. Keeping Hutchinson would have blown up their salary cap. In effect, Holmgren had to choose between Jones and Hutchinson, and in that scenario you gotta go with your All-Pro LT, imo.
FALSE.
God I hate reading stuff like this. And then it's expanded on. Ugh.
A. That's not what the poison pill was
B. Holmgren didn't make any choice here and was beyond pissed that it happened without his input.
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Eh, Hutchinson had to be the HIGHEST paid lineman on the team or the entire contract wouldve been guaranteed. BTW, no way did Holmgren have a say in that.
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Quote:
Not to nit pick, but the poison pill was related to how many games would be played in the state of Washington. Hutch had an escalator from MN that provided a $Bazillion dollars in bonus if he played more than five games a year in WA.
Holmgren and Seattle were outmanuvered and lost perhaps the best G in the NFL.
Once it happened they were trapped, but they never should have let it get there in the first place.
Not exactly, that particular poison pill was introduced by Seattle for the number of games played in Minnesota for Nate Burleson.
Sports
In professional sports, a poison pill is a component of a contract, which one team offers a player, that makes it difficult or impossible for another team (which has the right of first refusal) to match. While it can often refer to a salary structure or clause that would affect all teams equally, it has taken on a new specific meaning of a clause that has unbalanced impact. For example, in March 2006, the Minnesota Vikings offered Steve Hutchinson, an offensive guard with the Seattle Seahawks, a seven-year, $49 million contract of which $16 million was guaranteed. This contract offer had two poison pills in it. One was the salary structure, which would require the team to pay $13 million in the first year of the contract. That salary structure would apply to both teams equally, as the Seahawks would also have to pay $13 million in the first contract year, were they to match the offer. The second was a clause that required Hutchinson to be the highest paid player on the offensive line, or else the entire contract would be guaranteed. Since the Seahawks had another offensive lineman, Walter Jones, with a higher salary and the Vikings did not, this clause would have required the Seahawks to guarantee $49 million, and it effectively eliminated the Seahawks' opportunity to match the contract offer.
In the wake of this contract offer, similar clauses have appeared in other contract offers, including a contract offered to Vikings wide receiver Nate Burleson by the Seahawks, which, with irony fully intended, was structured as a seven year, $49 million deal. The contract given to Burleson had two vengeful poison pill clauses in response to the contract offered to Hutchinson. Firstly, it stipulated that if Burleson were to play five or more games in the state of Minnesota during any single season over the life of the contract, the entire $49 million would become guaranteed. Secondly, if Burleson were to earn more per year on average than all of his team's running backs combined, the $49 million would be guaranteed. Since the Vikings play half of their games at home in Minnesota, and their running backs combined earned less per year than the $7 million in Burleson's contract, Minnesota was unable to match it.
In August 2008, Brett Favre was traded from the Green Bay Packers to the New York Jets. The Jets would have had to surrender three first-round draft picks to Green Bay if they were to trade Favre to the Minnesota Vikings, a division rival of the Packers. The deal ultimately backfired on the Packers, as Favre asked for (and was given) a release by the Jets the following year, leaving him free to sign with the archrival Vikings for the 2009 NFL season.
The NFL's collective bargaining agreement has many poison pills, should either the players or owners decide to pull out. These include increasing the minimum years before joining free agency from 4 to 6, uncapped seasons, and a restructure of the draft. Because these terms would be unacceptable to both sides, it effectively aims to make sure that should the agreement be broken it would be in the best interests of both sides to agree to new terms.
#GMSTRONG
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All Pro
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just clicking on you Tulsa,...
I didn't finish reading all the posts so if already touched on, I appologize.
Like, Hate, or tolerate Mangini, the one thing I see the is different from the end of the Butch n Romeo regimes is,,,( i can no longer remember Palmers last 5 games) ..is.. that the teams flat out quick on both of them by this point. Plus they didn't get even a tiny fraction of the hate media or rumors Mangini did.
To me that diservse some credit as a head coach. These young men are playing for him at the end of a dismal season. It's been awhile since we've seen that.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Another one of those board fairy tales...
compare his team to RAC's 1st year team....he had less talent that 1st season, they overachieved more wins than this team and played harder THROUGHOUT the season
....so much for that
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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For the record: I was joking around.  I'm confused that you take the ignore function as a complement, but I digress. 1. I understand where you're coming from with the RB comparison. I'm saying I disagree. You have to look at the whole situation, which is something you refuse to do. Not everything is as black-and-white as you're trying to make it seem. With your RB, it's actually the same thing. You see a guy with low numbers, but that's not the whole story. What's his O-line like? Is he getting touches/how is he being used? Does he have a passing attack that will keep defenses honest? It's much more than one little number. 2. You talk about other people ignoring facts while you're ignoring the whole other side of the argument. I have no problem agreeing with you on several of your points: Demoted as a DC (I actually don't know anything about this) Daboll Koke (this is very debatable, but I'll give it to you as Mangini almost certainly played a major role in this debacle) The QB situation. Mangini definitely screwed the pooch in these areas. But when you lump those arguments in with some of your others, no one will take you seriously. The draft His FA's (to a much lesser extent)... You (and quite a few other posters) have argued this past draft until you were blue-in-the-face. Calling a draft a bust before that year is even over is ridiculous. Calling this draft a bust is sheer idiocy. Not only do you have little to no information on a handful of said picks, but we have picks that are contributing already in positions that normally take longer. Mack is gonna be a stud. He started out a little rough around the edges, and has improved ever since. I'm really excited to see him at the beginning of next year. Same as MoMass. Robiskie has some work to do, and hopefully we can see more of him as he continues to improve. Veikune is a work in progress, the sooner we can see him, the better (go ahead and rip EM for which round we took him in). You have no problem finding and pointing out the negative things, but you also need to acknowledge the positive as well (just open your eyes). When Braylon and Winslow were traded, Mangini basically announced/confirmed to the world that we were in a full-on rebuild (not re-tool, not re-work; I'm talking a knock it all down, haul it away, and build from scratch operation). New roster, new systems, new culture, new discipline... everything. If you want to argue whether a rebuild was necessary, or the degree of the teardown process, that's fine. Judging the entire plan after only seeing a fraction of the process carried out reeks of... wait for it... blinders (I was about to pull out the agenda card  ).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
John Clayton is about as worthless as they come.
He must have done something good at some point in his career to earn the reputation he's got, but everything he says is a guess.
I really question if he has any sources at all.
I enjoy listening to him for the laughs I get out of it.
For one, this is Claytons job. Its his specualtion.
As far as being worthless, the dude is in Canton for his contributions to the NFL. Hey it suprised me to. I think he was inducted to the media section 2-3 years ago.
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One thing about Clayton is he covered the Seahawks for a good while, and I believe still lives in the area. If anyone knows what Holmgrem might do, I believe Clayton would have a better idea than most.
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Django,
My Point isn't about who had the better team at the start of year one.
It's about how the coaches did or did not get the players to finish once the season was a wash. It's not fairy tale it's fact. And after being sickened multiple years watching my beloved Browns rollover at the end of seasons, I think you have to give Eric at least that credit if nothing else.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Legend
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"and this is EM's 4th year as HC."
Sorry thats pretty bad...even for you
What a rediculous analogy...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Anyone who thinks that Holmgren's biggest decision is anything other than whether to fire Mangini on Jan 4th or 5th isn't thinking it through. The man (EM) gutted the team. It sucks. He doesn't play the guys he himself drafted so who knows whether thay actually stink or not. He shafted the guy he hand-picked for GM. Other than possibly Ryan (and that's not a sure thing either) all of his coaches are suspect. He apparently knows less about QBs than Romeo (hard to believe, I know). Honestly, other than a win against a Pittsburgh team that's a shell of it's former self what would suggest to a normal thinking human being that Mangini deserves a second chance at anything other than being a ball boy? Glad to be back.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I don't think Seely is suspect in the least.. that unit is strong....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And as long as Cribbs is on it it'll be strong. Just as it was with the last ST coach.
He's OK. But if Mangini goes, so does everyone else with the possible exception of Ryan, IMO.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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