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Just a few observations/ predictions......
Randy Lerner has gotten alot of criticism on this board for hiring the wrong people to run his franchise. Holmgren's job will be to do just that AFAIK.
Holmgren will hire a GM ( the position is vacant at this time) and make decisions about the coaching staff with the help/blessing of his new GM. That will not happen until late January at the soonest,so relax on that for awhile.
Decisions on a coaching staff will prolly not be until after the GM is hired and they decide which way they want to proceed.That sounds like sometime in February???
What changes will Holmgren make?
Mike may look at the situation and decide to proceed on the current path and just make certain that the right talent evaluators are getting us the best personnel possible for our current scheme and make certain the train stays on the tracks.
or
He could gut the coaching staff and player personnel and go in a radical new direction.New defense/new offense with 100% coaching turnover and 50% roster turnover( again).
or
The changes could be less radical. i.e. keep the 3-4 defense and go to a WCO. Of course there will need to be at least one person in a high position in the coaching staff that is a WCO wizard at the OC level at the very least. I can see Mangini being retained as long as there is an OC and QB coach to take the team in the right direction offensively. In this situation I also see Zorn being our QB coach at some point.
There is a possibilty that the personnel changes are in the normal range ( 15-20%) and the coaching staff is gutted.
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mangini's overall philosophy of being a hardass and making everyone accoutable isnt a bad thing. We have seen a disciplined football team. I have to wonder though if he holds those coaches to the same standards. Daboll and his playcalling has been an embarrassment.
I could see Mangini staying but it isnt likely but changes to the staff especially on the O side would be made. I can also see Ryan staying around. Holmgren has always prefered strong personalities to run the D and he allowed them full control. Gruden has the same philosophy as well.
It will be very interesting to see what coaches stay and who goes. I have been brainstorming what players fit and honestly we are probably more ready to run the WCO than any of us would have thought.
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Legend
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Quote:
AFAIK
What's that stand for, dude?
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
Quote:
AFAIK
What's that stand for, dude?
As far as I know
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Quote:
AFAIK
What's that stand for, dude?
Thank you, I had no idea either.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
AFAIK
What's that stand for, dude?
Thank you, I had no idea either.
Thought it was learning disorder  and I was sure I had it .
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Holmgren hiring not in violation of Rooney Rule
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports Dec 22, 12:09 pm EST
The rule specifies that teams must interview at least one minority candidate for a head coach or general manager-type position. The Fritz Pollard Alliance, which fought hard for the policy, was told by Goodell that Holmgren’s hiring does not fall under the rule because he is being named as someone above football operations.
In other words, Holmgren may hire a general manager or even a coach, but his day-to-day responsibilities will not involve personnel matters such as the NFL draft or free agency. Instead, he’ll oversee business matters like ticketing and marketing along the lines of Dick Cass with the Baltimore Ravens, Tod Leiweke of the Seattle Seahawks and the Green Bay Packers’ Mark Murphy.
“We discussed it with the commissioner and his position is, as president, it’s all right for Cleveland to hire Holmgren without talking to a minority candidate,” said John Wooten, the chairman of the Fritz Pollard Alliance. “We only asked the commissioner to make sure that’s the case. It can’t be like the Miami situation with [Bill] Parcells, where he’s the vice president of football operations, but everybody knows he runs everything day-to-day.
“If Holmgren is there to hire a general manager, fine. Our position is we’d like them to then interview someone like Reggie McKenzie, Sheldon White, Marc Ross or [James Harris] for that job.”
McKenzie, White, Ross and Harris are all either current or former NFL personnel executives.
The upshot of the discussion is that the Fritz Pollard Alliance doesn’t want teams to get in the habit of using titles to get around the Rooney Rule.
“That’s our concern. This is a rule that the owners adopted 32-0. We want them to follow a rule they unanimously agreed to. That’s all,” Wooten said.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-holmgrenrooneyrule122209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
What is up with this? I sure hope this isn't the case! He was hired to get better players in here, not stick his nose in the ticket and maketing departments.
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could see Mangini staying but it isnt likely but changes to the staff especially on the O side would be made.
Oh I think the Browns will get a new OC..and they have met with Weis if what I read was correct.
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He was hired to run the football side of things, not the business side. Don't worry about things such as marketing. Keenan has moved to the financial side of the program, so you can bet Holmgren isn't going to waste his valuable time on things that are better suited to other people.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
AFAIK
What's that stand for, dude?
Thank you, I had no idea either.
as far as i know
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That is the line of reasoning I have as well.
Ryan and the 3-4 stays.
The WCO is installed with a new OC/QB coach and Mangini stays.
The roster turnover is not radical with about a 20- 25% turnover,half the turnover from last year.
He may not even know for certain where he wants the club to go at this point,although during the interview process he told Randy his plan.
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Quote:
That is the line of reasoning I have as well.
Ryan and the 3-4 stays.
The WCO is installed with a new OC/QB coach and Mangini stays.
The roster turnover is not radical with about a 20- 25% turnover,half the turnover from last year.
He may not even know for certain where he wants the club to go at this point,although during the interview process he told Randy his plan.
This is the most rational perspective IMO, except I see our WCO (if installed) as more of a hybrid type with a strong ground game.
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Out of morbid Curiosity, Calzone, can you go more in-depth into what you consider a "hybrid-type with a strong ground-game" version of the WCO?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Out of morbid Curiosity, Calzone, can you go more in-depth into what you consider a "hybrid-type with a strong ground-game" version of the WCO?
I would like to know this as well.
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Grossi Article from Today...... Quote:
Cleveland Browns have right man in Mike Holmgren, Ron Wolf says
By Tony Grossi
December 25, 2009, 4:15AM
Jim Slosiarek / Journal Times via AP Former Packers coach Mike Holmgren, left, and former Packers GM won the Super Bowl together in Green Bay in 1997. Wolf, who hired Holmgren to coach the Packers, believes Holmgren is the ideal man to run the Browns' football operations. CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns owner Randy Lerner couldn't have picked a better man available than Mike Holmgren to take over their football operations.
That's the opinion of Ron Wolf, who gave Holmgren his first job as head coach and sometimes sparred with him during their highly successful seven seasons together as the management tandem of the Green Bay Packers.
"As I understand it, Cleveland was looking for someone to head the whole thing, a la Bill Parcells. Well, this man can do it," Wolf said in a telephone interview Wednesday.
Wolf, 71, retired as general manager of the Packers in June 2001. He has the unique perspective of presiding over Holmgren and also being a close friend of Parcells. Wolf, in fact, wanted to hire Parcells as Packers coach before Holmgren, but Parcells was having health problems at the time.
"Parcells is an extremely smart man," Wolf said. "Mike's essentially the same individual, from an intelligent standpoint. Now, Parcells took a 1-15 team [Miami] in the same division as New England and won the division in one year. That's a pretty tall order [to match]."
The Packers were 84-42 in seven seasons with Holmgren as coach and Wolf as GM. Two player acquisitions cleared the path to greatness. Wolf traded for Atlanta backup quarterback Brett Favre soon after hiring Holmgren. The next season, Wolf signed Philadelphia defensive lineman Reggie White in the first year of NFL free agency.
The Packers made back-to-back appearances in the Super Bowl following the 1996-97 seasons, winning the first. After the 1998 season, Holmgren left Green Bay for Seattle because he wanted to run the whole show and he knew it would never happen in Green Bay.
"I didn't blame him," Wolf said. "He deserved to move on to the next challenge. His contemporaries were getting those type of jobs at the time."
Holmgren was the grand pooh-bah for four years in Seattle before a club executive stripped him of GM duties to let him concentrate on coaching. Holmgren eventually coached the Seahawks into the Super Bowl.
"He was carrying two different crowns," Wolf said. "I don't think in today's NFL you can do that. The days of George Halas and Paul Brown are gone. It's become too difficult for one person to run the whole show."
Wolf believes Holmgren will benefit from his experience in Seattle as he moves into the top executive position in Cleveland.
"He knows what he can do and what he can't do," Wolf said. "It's not going to take him a long time to figure it out.
"Bill Belichick's a perfect example of learning from his experiences. His first time around in Cleveland wasn't so good. Now look at him in New England. What happens, unfortunately, in today's game, you don't have time to grow. You're expected to win right away. Now, Mike's had that experience [of being in charge]." Wolf believes Holmgren's ability to recognize coaching talent is an example of him being capable of making the right decisions in the front office.
"When he was at Green Bay, he hired just a phenomenal staff. That tells you a lot," he said.
Former Holmgren assistant coaches in Green Bay who became NFL head coaches included Andy Reid, Dick Jauron, Steve Mariucci, Ray Rhodes, Jon Gruden and Marty Mornhinweg.
Wolf said he thinks Holmgren would have no problem leaving the coaching to someone else and is unsure how active Holmgren would be in the development of a quarterback, which is his specialty.
"I'm not sure Mike would interfere with that," Wolf said. "But if you're the coach and you don't take advantage of his knowledge, you're not very smart."
At the same time, Holmgren will hold his coach accountable.
"He's not going to be [deceived] by any coach, I can tell you that," Wolf said.
As a GM, Wolf would travel every week and inspect potential college draft picks with his own eyes. He doesn't expect Holmgren to do much, but "going down to Ohio State to look at their players, I can see him doing that."
Wolf expects Holmgren to name a general manager to oversee the personnel department.
"Mike has trained some exceptional people," he said. "He will hire someone. You know inwardly what your strengths and weaknesses are, so you have to surround yourself with someone that covers your weaknesses. The great thing about Mike Holmgren is he knows what he doesn't know."
In Green Bay, Wolf had complete autonomy and reported to nobody but the club president, who acted as the owner in the unique structure of the community-owned Packers. Holmgren said the attraction in Cleveland is that he will have "no layers" between himself and the owner.
"You can't imagine [what a benefit that is]," Wolf said. "In this job, every day there's a situation that comes up that you have to respond to before you lose the moment. You don't want to have to make phone calls or pull out the BlackBerry.
"You may have five minutes to make a decision on a trade or a signing. Sometimes that's all you've got. And if you make a bad decision, there's only one person to blame -- yourself.
"With Mike, it will be all about the Cleveland Browns. I'm telling you, you can't get a better guy for that job."
Blackout deadline extended: The NFL granted the Browns an additional 48 hours -- twice the norm because of the holiday week -- to avoid their first local television blackout since the 1995 season.
The Browns have until Saturday at 1 p.m. to sell the remaining tickets for Sunday's game against the Oakland Raiders. If they don't sell them, the game will be blacked out on TV within a 75-mile radius of downtown Cleveland.
A club spokesman would not characterize the number of tickets needed to sell.
If the blackout is lifted, the game will be shown on WOIO Channel 19.
Notepad: Quarterback Brady Quinn's injury has been diagnosed as a mid-foot sprain, a source said, and Quinn will have to keep his left foot in walking boot for four weeks. . . . Browns right tackle John St. Clair (ankle) did not practice again Thursday.
© 2009 cleveland.com. All rights reserved
Couple of comments stood out:
Quote:
"When he was at Green Bay, he hired just a phenomenal staff. That tells you a lot," he said.
he does seem to hire well...
And
Quote:
"Mike has trained some exceptional people," he said. "He will hire someone. You know inwardly what your strengths and weaknesses are, so you have to surround yourself with someone that covers your weaknesses. The great thing about Mike Holmgren is he knows what he doesn't know."
A smart leader always does this..
And Finally this:
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"He's not going to be [deceived] by any coach, I can tell you that," Wolf said
Can't pull the wool over his eyes to easily....
When Ron Wolf speaks, his words should carry weight.. he's a respected man in NFL Circles..
Pretty interesting quotes....
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/cleveland_browns_have_right_ma.html
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Of course Wolf would go to bat for Holmgren considering their history. When you win a Super Bowl with a guy, you tend to think he knows his business. 
The flipside would be an article from the CEO of the Seahawks, who believes Holmgren was part of the problem. He would obviously not view him as favorably.
All about perspective, but thanks for posting the article.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I suppose all of that could be true toad,,, But coming from Wolf, that's saying something.. He's kinda like an NFL older statesmen,,, someone that has cred out the wahzoo.. so yeah, it might just be nothing more than him talking up his man,,, but I highly doubt it because he didn't have to say anything... but he did.
As for Leiweki speaking negatively about holmgren,,, hasn't happened has it..
Oh,, and you are most welcome,, Merry Christmas.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh, I don't expect Lewieki (sp) to say anything bad about Holmgren. He just wasn't about to give him unlimited control like he had before.
I also want to say that Wolf carries deserved cred. I just had to throw the obvious connection out there to temper any potential overzealous adoration.
I remember Wolf getting huffy that Butch didn't take his advice. I'm sure some of that advice was good, just as some of it wasn't. I don't know what else Wolf said about what Butch should do, but I do remember Wolf was perfectly happy to endorse Couch as the right QB for the job.
Side note: I'm in here talking Browns football because I got a bunch of extended family in the other room that a bunch of smarmy dolts. Better to do this than to stare at them obvious loathing on my face. *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
temper any potential overzealous adoration.
LOL,, A little potential oversealous adoration on Christmas day isn't a bad thing
LOL on your side note.. I'm on here because for whatever reason, my family celebrates Christmas on Christmas eve.. then on Christmas day, we scatter... This is a day for the Wifey and I to just set and veg and pick on leftovers..... My kinda day..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hahaha, best time of the year to have an iphone.
Ruckaholics Anonymous: We can help.
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Quote:
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Out of morbid Curiosity, Calzone, can you go more in-depth into what you consider a "hybrid-type with a strong ground-game" version of the WCO?
I would like to know this as well.
lol,...and openly reveal my entire O gameplan.  I wish I could. I just don't want to give up on a smash-mouth style of football, but I also understand the MH/WCO connection and a WCO would probably be a better fit for BQ.We need to pound the ball during the winter months while working within an O thats going to give us the best chance to win.
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to add a tid bit about the switch back to a 4-3. There is an injured player in green bay that was having a terrible time making a switch to olb by the name of Aaron Kampman.
Aaron Kampman
Shaun Rogers
Suh (probally robaire smith)
Matt Roth
I personally would leave Wimbley at linebacker and use him like the giants use Kiwanuka.
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The Shaun Alexander years would probably be what you are looking for  That was a very smash mouth offense that wasnt close to the traditional WCO most think of.
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Quote:
The Shaun Alexander years would probably be what you are looking for
OK, if you insist.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Out of morbid Curiosity, Calzone, can you go more in-depth into what you consider a "hybrid-type with a strong ground-game" version of the WCO?
I would like to know this as well.
lol,...and openly reveal my entire O gameplan. I wish I could. I just don't want to give up on a smash-mouth style of football, but I also understand the MH/WCO connection and a WCO would probably be a better fit for BQ.We need to pound the ball during the winter months while working within an O thats going to give us the best chance to win.
Why would running the WCO give up on smashmouth ball?
Last I checked, Shaun Alexander led the NFL in rushing in the WCO, and the Broncos were known for churning out 1000 yard rushers in the WCO.
So...why would we be giving up on smashmouth by running the WCO again?
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Quote:
So...why would we be giving up on smashmouth by running the WCO again?
I know the question wasn't for me, but I think so many are convinced that if you don't have a Jerome Bettis type back that you can't win in our division. IMO that's just a myth. I believe that is why every back that comes to this team is scrutinized and even if their lack of success is more do to a bad Oline, they are look at as inadequate.
I would take a guy like Chris Brown, not real big but tough, anyday. This day and age, a big back is nice, but speed is what counts most.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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So...why would we be giving up on smashmouth by running the WCO again?
I know the question wasn't for me, but I think so many are convinced that if you don't have a Jerome Bettis type back that you can't win in our division. IMO that's just a myth. I believe that is why every back that comes to this team is scrutinized and even if their lack of success is more do to a bad Oline, they are look at as inadequate.
I would take a guy like Chris Brown, not real big but tough, anyday. This day and age, a big back is nice, but speed is what counts most.
I know, and I agree 100% with you.
Mainly people think the WCO means giving up on the running game and that it's an offense that doesn't work in cold climates, or at the very least, our "special division that is separate from the rest of the NFL", which is absolute BS. The WCO has worked in Green Bay, Denver, Philly and many other cold climates. There have been pass happy teams running the WCO and run happy smashmouth teams using the WCO.
Which is why I don't understand why people consider it a "finesse offense."
Last edited by Ammo; 12/25/09 10:37 PM.
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The why is simple: To a man, brute strength is sexier and more appealing than precision.
It's no different than knowing that most men find it to be more macho....more rewarding....more manly.....to pummel a man with his fists in a brutish fashion than it is to dance around and throw martial-arts kicks and chops at him.
So....it's less sexy to see a unit of 290 pound linemen open holes through teamwork, smarts, and "finesse" than it is to see a unit of 330 pound brutes just shove open the same holes.
There's also the misconception that a WCO team MUST throw first to establish the run. While that's what the WCO was based on, it doesn't mean a good WCO team can't run when they need to. It's just a simple philosophical distinction: Instead of running to set up the pass, it's passing to set up the run.
One isn't better than the other, but one is perceived to be more dominant because that's what we want to see.
It's easy to understand why people think that way. It's harder disuading them because it's asking them to change their opinion, and while all men have an opinion, not all men are open-minded enough to change it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad,
You left out an entire group of guys...guys just like me.
Guys who are big football fans but are NOT big X & O type guys.
Prior to some recent posts on here - mostly by you - I thought the WCO and smash mouth running did not go together.
After reading some rather in-depth posts about the WCO, I have learned and can recollect where some variety of the WCOs in fact do/did have some very stout running games.
I think most guys like me, believe/believed that the WCO was a slightly more run-friendly version of the spread Os...and that belief is certainly incorrect.
At the same time - and as you and others have said - it is quite misleading to call all WCO-based offenses by the nickname of WCO. (Understanding that it would probably be even MORE confusing to have WCO1..WCO2...etc.)
FWIW: I agree too with your brute strength vs. finesse argument above and that some people get tunnel vision that one or the other is the ONLY way to be successful and that the two are not compatible. Is what it is.
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If there was any offense felt by the perception of exclusion, I'd apologize, Willie. That certainly wasn't the intent, as I just wanted to try and show why the animal that is the human-being finds winning with brute-strength to be more satisfying than winning with finesse, hehe.
You're right that trying to name all the versions of the WCO would be confusing. In fact, it'd be impossible because while all are based in the WCO, each has different nuances. To that end, it just makes sense to say "WCO" and go from there. If we're trying to be more correct with the terminology, the best blanket-term I can think of is to call it the "modified-WCO" but of course that's just wasting time and space, so we just call it the "WCO." Every once in a while someone comes along and points out that flaw, then we have to politely explain it all over again
Historically speaking, I've watched all WCO's in the league over the last decade-plus. The guy who has always run the most traditional WCO.......which is to say the plays have been based more in the traditional sets and fundamental principals........has been Holmgren. Shanahan has run the WCO, but he used the pro-set much less than others (two-back, one TE set). Assuming Holmgren continues to base his offense in traditional formations and principals, guys like Evan Moore and Vickers are about to have amazing opportunities. What you'll see here in Cleveland is going to be the closest thing to what the Niners ran 20 years ago.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not for nothing, but I actually like (from a fans perspective anyway) the precision passing game. Lots of fun to watch. Again, as a spectator, it's amazing to watch a perfectly executed pass that is quick and clean and results in some nice YAC... that probably explains why for years, my second favorite team was the 49ers.
From a laymans view, it seems to me that you need, above all else, a smart QB.. I mean, I know that good QB's have to be at least football smart,, but I mean more cerebral. And of course, ultra accurate.
Again, that's just a layman talking.. but that's what I think.
One of the things I remember most about those Montana led teams was the use of Roger Craig..
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Smart and accurate. You can't be Derek Anderson football-dumb to excel in the WCO. A QB MUST be accurate. Without accuracy, a QB can't hit the windows that the WCO creates. Based on what we've seen, that's no QB on this roster. I think Quinn would do better, but in the end, teams would continue to do what they've learned to do with him, which is to simply squeeze down the defense towards the LOS and dare Quinn to beat them deep. He hasn't proven he can, and without the threat of a long-ball, no offense can consistently succeed, which of course means no chance of getting to the big game.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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I was kinda thinking the same thing about quinn being a better fit.. Smarts wise, I think Quinn is smart enough,, No question he's athletic enough,,, but accurate... there seems to big hole there..
I remember when Favre first took over for Majkowski in GB.. He didn't look so accurate but he was smart... not sure if accuracy can be taught.. Smart for sure can't. you either are or aren't..
But it seemed to me as if (and of course this is going back a lot of years now) that Favre wasn't accurate but he seemed to become more accurate.
nothing like Montana or Young.. but good enough..
If I were a betting man, And I'm not, I'd say that a new QB is in the very very near future.. not sure where holmgren will find one but I'm sure he will.
The question I have is this, can a back like Harrison or Davis fit in?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Holmgren makes QBs. I dont think that talent to develop the quarterback should be underrated. If anyone can save Quinn from becoming the next total bust at QB it is the Holmgren regime.
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Remember Walsh in TB lol That was the worst QB in the league at the time and Holmgren made him into a star in a very short period of time in SF.
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Legend
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Steve Walsh? Or Steve Young?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ammo,..I see your point. I'm not saying you can't have a successful running attack while using a WCO,...this is what I originally stated I was hoping for. I'm not even sure what a "traditional" WCO would be but when your O is designed to pass first and pass about 80% of the time, running the ball doesn't seem to be as much of a priority as I'd like to see.
What kind of players are we going to focus on while making the WCO are own? Our right side OL needs alot of help,..are we going to bring in guys that are better suited for pass blocking or run blocking? How does Cribbs fit into this O? will he just be used as a receiver more, or will we have enough wildcat formations and running plays to make him most effective?
We need help at RB, are we going to spend alot of money or a high draft pick on a RB(assuming one's available) that isn't going to be the focal point of our O?
These are just a few of the questions I have concerning a WCO, I want to run the ball on 3rd and short and feel confident on doing so.
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Young lol my bad had bill walsh on the brain
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The true WCO which noone in the NFL employs anymore was the short passing game to replace the run game. Most now have their reads from deep to short instead of one side to the other. that9- 14 yard pattern is the bread and butter of the Mike Holmgren offense.
Jerome Harrison and Vickers are the ideal tandem for the WCO but it can be done with more traditional backs if the talent is there. I seriously doubt however that we invest in a RB early on in the draft.
Its like receiver, the history is there of doing it without the high investment although Dez Bryant in the WCO may be to good to pass up.
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Legend
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LOL Figured that's what you meant...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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