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These issues cannot be overlooked and will unltimately be the reason he is relieved of his duties.
CASE CLOSED
Maybe and maybe not... I hope he's gone, but you just never know. Holmgren has stated that 1 year isn't enough for a HC. If he beleives that and can sit down with Mangini and reach agreements on what D, what O, how it will be run on Sundays, and a host of other topics.. then you can bet he'll be here for another year..
If that happens, are you gonna say that Holmgrens an idiot for keeping him?
#GMSTRONG
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I'm not putting much stock into what Holmgren has said about anyone on this team in interviews before he was hired, just because I really don't think he was gonna say anything bad about them. That being said I'm kinda on the fence about what I want with the coaching decision. I do know that for the first time since I can remember, I am going to let Holmgren do his thing and not be skeptical. I think Randy has made a sound hire this time. 
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If that happens then I would be inclined to think that the coach he really wants (cough Gruden cough) is not available at this moment and the team can begin its morph into a Holmgren team while Mangini holds the head coaching position for 1 more year. I just don't think it makes any sense to keep Mangini with Holmgren at the top of the totem pole. You just don't hire Holmgren and ask him to change his style or way of thinking to appease the current coaching staff. CCDawg was right. If Mangini fits what Holmgren is trying to create then he stays. If Holmgren wants a different style of head coach then he's gone no matter what last minute success the coach has.
$50,000,000 is a boatload of money being paid to create a team in Holmgren's image. He will create that staff, team, and style how he's always done it. He ain't gonna change now!
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I'm not putting much stock into what Holmgren has said about anyone on this team in interviews before he was hired, just because I really don't think he was gonna say anything bad about them.
Then you need to be listening to the interview on STO right now.. you might change your thinkign
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not putting much stock into what Holmgren has said about anyone on this team in interviews before he was hired, just because I really don't think he was gonna say anything bad about them.
Then you need to be listening to the interview on STO right now.. you might change your thinkign
daman...I was listening to telephone conference and I thought Holmgren did a great job of not being specific about anything at this time. As Holmgren pointed out, after the season is over, he can be more specific.
I did get the feeling he was not going to blow up the entire team again. That might mean that Mangini may stay if he can accept some changes. Hard to tell for sure what Holmgren really thinks.
They did say that a group needed to look at the Brady Quinn issue. He said that Mangini sent him game film of Quinn to study so it's not like Holmgren has not already started working.
I hope there is link to a replay or a transcript or both.
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He mentioned that himself and Mangini shared some philosophies but I think Mangini is toast be it right wrong, happy or sad for some....toast. Final say on everything. That won't sit well with EM. For the Lerner haters it was THE number one reason he's here and not elsewhere, Lerner. Cleveland fans deserve to be excited about their team again... I like that!
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ClevelandBrowns.com will have a replay of the audio available later today.
The biggest thing that Holmgren brings right now is the sense and steadfastness to not make any knee-jerk reactions and to not do things just for the sake of doing them (e.g. clean house). I truly believe him when he says that he will take a complete look at things before making decisions... which is PRECISELY the level of common sense and stability that we've lacked for a long, long, long time.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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for 1 more year. I just don't think it makes any sense to keep Mangini with Holmgren at the top of the totem pole. You just don't hire Holmgren and ask him to change his style or way of thinking to appease the current coaching staff. CCDawg was right. If Mangini fits what Holmgren is trying to create then he stays.
that's kinda what Holmgren just said on his Telephone interview that just finished airing on STO's All Bets are Off...
In essence, he's coming here next week, we'll officially take over on Monday but won't talk to the media until Tuesday.. gonna take monday and speak to the players that are still around, Mangini, the coaching staff etc etc..
Most heartening to me is that he said he's not going to make decisions based on the last three games, he'll look at the entire body of work from the coaching staff.. he wants to look at the whole picture.
He did use the phrase, Mangini and I, or Eric and I several times when discussing what will happen.
he said he's going to hire a GM.. when asked who has final say on things, he laughed and said that he does. he did qualify that by saying that all decisions would be made as a group,, HC, GM, Himself, input by coaching and scouting staff when required.
he did say that "blowing up" the team isn't really the answer. A transition is more in order. More harm than good comes from that.
He wouldn't discuss in detail any GM candidates or coaching candidates until next week at the earliest...
Holmgren said that Mangini has sent tape of both QB's to him for his advance review.
he said he came here because of Randy Lerner.
I missed the first 10 minutes of the interview.. so I can't tell you what was said then.
Holmgren strikes me as the kinda guy that is media friendly.. that could mean better communications with the media and of course, the fans.. something that is sorely missed under Mangini...
One thing is VERY Clear.. the team has a face... Holmgren
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/28/09 06:54 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Purp, this is some info that's on the main site..
Holmgren anxious to get to work
Zac Jackson, Staff Writer
12.28.2009
New Browns president Mike Holmgren met with the Cleveland media in a Monday afternoon conference call. Below are some highlights of the conversation...
**Holmgren said he will hire a general manager, but "by rule we can't really get started on any of this stuff until the end of the regular season." He said he's spent some time "putting together the structure of the organization as far as I would like to do it."
**He said no decision has been made on head coach Eric Mangini. "I met with Eric and we've talked on phone about football issues. It would be really unfair to make any decision now. He's at the end of finishing his first season there and the team is doing well and has clearly responded to him. He's working like crazy to finish the season on an upbeat note."
** Holmgren finished his opening statement by saying: "I can't wait to get back to Cleveland and roll up my sleeves and get back to work."
**Holmgren said he's watched some of the Browns on film but said he's not ready - nor would it be fair - to share any input on the team's quarterback situation. The same goes for the rest of the roster, but he said he "absolutely" believes the team can make significant improvements in a relatively short period of time. "We have to identify areas we need to get better and figure out the best way to handle that."
**He said: "I haven't made any decisions yet. I want to do what is right for the Browns. I want to see the team's record better. I want the fans to be very proud of their team."
The audio archive of the call will be published on ClevelandBrowns.com later this evening.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Mentioned he had NOT talked with anyone yet about GM and that he had not spoken with Reggie McKenzie in GB who would be a strong minority candidate. That's my guy and I'm going out on a limb and saying he will be the hire!
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thanks for that. getting very excited about this whole thing.
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Seems to me that it Mangini is going to get another year here, however he's going to be reduced a lot in his input and power overall.
Holmgren just kept on talking about getting people, experience people in key front office positions. I love that...with more eyes, you can usually wade through the...BS.
I have a feeling that Holmgren will insert his own offensive scheme and let Mangini take care of the defense and make sure it all runs smoothly together.
Last but certainly not least, I think if Mangini fails to do what Holmgren tells him to do next year *provided Mangini accepts a lesser position*, Holmgren might make a trip back to the sidelines.
you had a good run Hank.
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Hmm....I wonder if Daboll will get another year...the guy is horrible.....I wonder if Weiss would come up here if he knew he would answer to Holmgren instead of Mangini?
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If EM stays, something tells me the rookies won't be taking a bus trip to Connecticut next year.
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I believe, when asked about coaching the team, Holmgren said he would not be coaching the team next season but he did say something that leads me to believe that the coaching door for Holmgren may still be open after next season.
That is why I need to hear it again or read it again, to see if I heard his response in the proper context of the question asked.
If true, it could signal that Mangini will remain for another year as head coach. But again, I need to hear that part again...mac
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I could see Holmgram returning to the sidelines if Mangini flops next year. I think at first he wants to establish a front office, get the right people in place, and then go to the football side. You would think Daboll will be let go. Ryan is the key in my opinion. If Mike wants to run the 4-3, I think Mangini will force Mike to fire him. No way will Eric be the coach of a team that runs the 4-3. He is a firm believer in the 3-4.
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Hmm....I wonder if Daboll will get another year...the guy is horrible.....I wonder if Weiss would come up here if he knew he would answer to Holmgren instead of Mangini?
IMO, there is no way in hell that Daboll is here next year. In fact, I think you could extend that to pretty much 80 or 90 % of the offensive coaching staff will not be here next year.
you had a good run Hank.
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My quick impressions of the teleconference actually changed from the beginning to the end.
After the first 5-10 minutes I got the feeling that Mangini was on stronger footing than I would have given him credit for. Then towards the end of the teleconference that changed when Holmgren said that the one mistake he made in Seattle was not making the changes that needed to be made quick enough. So who knows.
I also got the feeling that even though he won't be coaching in 2010 it definitely has not left his blood. If he gets the chance to coach in the future I could see him taking it. Which could mean that Mangini has 2010 to point the bow into the wind and get the ship righted or he (Holmgren) will be taking the headphones away and prowling the sidelines in 2011.
The overriding feeling I got, though, was that this guy knows what he wants to do and he damn well is gonna get it done. It was a breath of fresh air, frankly.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Just my impression from the part I heard from the interview,,,
We now have a guy at the helm of this ship that actually has experience from top to the bottom of a football organization. he has the Credibility so he'll pretty much get anyone that he wants to work for him... GM, Coach, coaching staff, scouting.. the whole shebang...
IMO, for the first time since the Browns returned, we have a leader that every tool in his toolbox needed to put this franchise together and make it a winner..
I also happen to feel as if we have an honest man at the helm that will call it as it is,, and defend his position when required to do so. We have a man that isn't terrified of speaking to the media so our info flow will increase.
It's kinda like a breath of fresh air..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If EM stays, something tells me the rookies won't be taking a bus trip to Connecticut next year.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The overriding feeling I got, though, was that this guy knows what he wants to do and he damn well is gonna get it done. It was a breath of fresh air, frankly.
And that not coming from someone who is a first-timer.
#gmstrong
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Secondly, Mangini is not a good talent evaluator.
I disagree.
Mack is looking solid....MoMass is looking good.....Robiskie is getting involved....Miavia looks good......so Vikune is who you are talking about.
I have news for you....if you pull 2 solid players each draft, you are doing a good job.
And while you dis the using of street FA....the guy has 3-4 of those that look great, so you can't sit there and say the guy can't evaluate talent and be taken seriously.
I don't mind if you don't like the guy, but don't just make stuff up because you think it sounds cool.
So....case isn't closed.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
If EM stays, something tells me the rookies won't be taking a bus trip to Connecticut next year.
I can't help but wonder if a guy like Chris Henry would still be alive if he had a coach that "dragged" him to charity events....
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Quote:
Quote:
If EM stays, something tells me the rookies won't be taking a bus trip to Connecticut next year.
I can't help but wonder if a guy like Chris Henry would still be alive if he had a coach that "dragged" him to charity events....
No, that guy was a moron and there wasnt anything that would of changed him!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Not making anything up.
How did Harrison sit behind Lewis most of the season? Lewis was done long before he went on the IR.
How did Fraley sit on the bench behind the entire right side of the line? Each time Fraley filled in for an injured player the line looked tons better.
How about Francies? He showed alot of skill during training camp and the pre-season. Now we have a receiver playing safety while Francies is inactive.
Mack is solid, no doubt.
Mo Mass, shows flashes. I like him alot.
Robiskie was a reach that may not ever come to fruition. I really hope he does.
Maiva is average. Prolly wouldn't see the field on another team. Just like our other linebackers- can't cover the tight end. If a team needs 5-15 yards all they need to do is drag the tighend or receiver over the middle.
I'm not dissing the street free agents. My point was that these guys that no other team was holding a roster spot for can come here and start ahead of Mangini drafted players with almost a full season of Mangini's system under their belts.
I also never said I didn't like the guy. I am a realist. I was very excited and was a Mangini supporter when he was hired and into the season until his act wore thin. He's put a bad vibe over the team and the entire Brown's organization. I wanted him to come here and succeed. I was trying to sell him to other fans who were skeptical. Now I'm off the wagon especially with a new president and a new philosophy. I just think some people are trying to put a round peg in a square hole here. Holmgren will put people under him that share his philosophy and scheme.
Holmgren is coming in on Monday-Mangini will be fired on Monday or Tuesday.
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Just clicking.
The post of the entire interview is upon the main site...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Holmgren never says anything that I heard that disputes that... I agree, I think he's toast
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"I'm not going to be the coach, but I'm going to work very closely with the coach on personnel," Holmgren said. "Eric shares my views on how important the quarterback position is on any team. That's what we have to do. We have to be tough in some ways. We have to be honest about it. If we think we have the quarterback there that can take us where we want to go, fine. If not, we have to do something about it. But we have not made that decision yet."
I think Holmgren seems willing to work with Mangini. My first instinct is that Mangini stays and it wouldn't bother me.
I'd respect both men much more if they could find common ground, cast aside some of their egos and get to work, side by side.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Nothing great,, just Mary Kays write up on the Holmgren interview..
Cleveland Browns new president Mike Holmgren will take a "little time'' to make his decision on Eric Mangini
By Mary Kay Cabot
December 28, 2009, 5:12PM
AP Photo/Ted S. WarrenMike Holmgren said he'll take a little time to make his decision on whether or not to keep coach Eric Mangini.
•Audio: Holmgren talks about joining Browns
Berea, Ohio - Browns new president Mike Holmgren said Monday on a conference call that he hasn't yet made a decision on Eric Mangini's future and that he'll do so sometime after meeting with Mangini next week. He said he'll be in town on Monday.
"I have not made a decision on Eric,'' said Holmgren. "I met with Eric when I was back there for my brief stay and I've talked to him on the phone about football issues. It would be unfair (to make a decision now). He's at the end of finishing his first season, the team is doing well and responding to him. That type of decision will be made once I get back there. Eric and I will meet next week and then we'll come to sort of decision.''
He said "it's going to take a little time (to make the decision).'' He also said he's "not a fan of the quick hook. I wouldn't be a big fan of allowing to coach one year and out. I really don't think one year is enough to try to prove what you're trying to get done. Having said that, I haven't made a decision yet.''
He said he won't make it on one, two or three games and that he'll evaluate the body of work. "I've got to see things going in the right direction,'' he said.
He also said he'll hire a general manager. He said he signed a five-year contract and has no plans to coach "in the near future.''
© 2009 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Secondly, Mangini is not a good talent evaluator.
I disagree.
Mack is looking solid....MoMass is looking good.....Robiskie is getting involved....Miavia looks good......so Vikune is who you are talking about.
I have news for you....if you pull 2 solid players each draft, you are doing a good job.
And while you dis the using of street FA....the guy has 3-4 of those that look great, so you can't sit there and say the guy can't evaluate talent and be taken seriously.....
Agreed.
gmstrong -----------------
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It would not surprise me to have Holmgren "offer" to replace Daboll with a coordinator of his choosing ..... running his preferred offense ...... and offer mangini the opportunity to remain as coach if he agrees.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm not sure how married Holmgren is to the 4-3 on defense... he's more of an offensive guy in football background, correct?
So maybe he says to Mangini, I'll give you the 3-4 (but it damn well better work) ... and we get an OC to run the offense my way (a.k.a. the WCO).... is this beyond the realm of possibility?
I don't think so.
I like Mangini's disciplinary approach. I also don't think it's fair to can a guy after one season, when we've seen positive steps.
gmstrong -----------------
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i wouldn't be surprised and i'd be elated if this is how it works out. the only problem i had with the coaching staff hiring was that mangini did not hire an experienced o-coordinator, instead, opting to pick someone who had to grow into the role but would be more subservient to mangini. a good current example would be the broncos where offensive hc mcdaniels hired nolan to be the dc to compensate for mcdaniel's lack of defensive expertise.
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Not making anything up.
How did Harrison sit behind Lewis most of the season? Lewis was done long before he went on the IR.
Sorry, it isn't hard for a coach to start a possible HOF player over another player
How did Fraley sit on the bench behind the entire right side of the line? Each time Fraley filled in for an injured player the line looked tons better.
no idea
How about Francies? He showed alot of skill during training camp and the pre-season. Now we have a receiver playing safety while Francies is inactive.
Sorry, that doesn't hold....you don't know a thing about Francise....I will bet you a box of doughnuts he doesn't amount to much.
Mack is solid, no doubt.
Mo Mass, shows flashes. I like him alot.
Robiskie was a reach that may not ever come to fruition. I really hope he does.
Maiva is average. Prolly wouldn't see the field on another team. Just like our other linebackers- can't cover the tight end. If a team needs 5-15 yards all they need to do is drag the tighend or receiver over the middle.
I'm not dissing the street free agents. My point was that these guys that no other team was holding a roster spot for can come here and start ahead of Mangini drafted players with almost a full season of Mangini's system under their belts.
I also never said I didn't like the guy. I am a realist. I was very excited and was a Mangini supporter when he was hired and into the season until his act wore thin. He's put a bad vibe over the team and the entire Brown's organization. I wanted him to come here and succeed. I was trying to sell him to other fans who were skeptical. Now I'm off the wagon especially with a new president and a new philosophy. I just think some people are trying to put a round peg in a square hole here. Holmgren will put people under him that share his philosophy and scheme.
Holmgren is coming in on Monday-Mangini will be fired on Monday or Tuesday.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Mike Holmgren folks, is just a man. Just one man. Yes he's a great football coach-a Hall of Famer in my opinion. The magic he worked with Steve Young, Brett Favre and Matt Hasselbeck is nothing short of genius.
flight of fantasy
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Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
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Mike Holmgren folks, is just a man. Just one man. Yes he's a great football coach-a Hall of Famer in my opinion. The magic he worked with Steve Young, Brett Favre and Matt Hasselbeck is nothing short of genius.
Um...okay?
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Mike Holmgren folks, is just a man. Just one man. Yes he's a great football coach-a Hall of Famer in my opinion. The magic he worked with Steve Young, Brett Favre and Matt Hasselbeck is nothing short of genius.
Would you like that waffle, scattered, smothered and covered?
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
The thing that stood out to me was when he said that he and EM had talked and agree on the importance of the QB situation. I have a real strong feeling now we are going to draft a QB. Mike didn't come out and say he didn't like what he saw on film, but it sure seemed to be there underlying imo.
I don't think he will go the FA route either, because he talked about the "importance" of the QB situation. Considering what is in FA this year is fodder at best I doubt we go that route. I figure we will probably take Bradford, or maybe trade for a vet (stop gap like Hassleback) and draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder to take over.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
The thing that stood out to me was when he said that he and EM had talked and agree on the importance of the QB situation. I have a real strong feeling now we are going to draft a QB. Mike didn't come out and say he didn't like what he saw on film, but it sure seemed to be there underlying imo.
I don't think he will go the FA route either, because he talked about the "importance" of the QB situation. Considering what is in FA this year is fodder at best I doubt we go that route. I figure we will probably take Bradford, or maybe trade for a vet (stop gap like Hassleback) and draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder to take over.
Hassleback would be perfect. He knows the system, smart guy, and seems to be a good team mate.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren - Part IV in a continuing
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