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Reports out of Houston have the Texans parting ways with quarterback David Carr and acquiring Jake Plummer to lead the team in 2007. If Plummer and Carr are traded, what will they return to their respective teams and who will take a chance on Carr? The Broncos would love to get a 4th rounder for Plummer, but it's doubtful he'll go for more then a 5th. The Texans seem to be the only team with much interest. Carr has more value as some think the problem with Carr was his porous offensive line. The Texans are rumored to want a 3rd round pick for Carr and might be able to get it. Both Carolina and Jacksonville could be interested. http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/2007/02/carr-done-in-houston-plummer-to-lead.html
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If this ends up happening look for Houston to want to trade down and grab either Quinn or Russel. They have a veteran starting next year and thier rookie franchise QB learning from him. Or maybe I'm just dreaming that the Browns could finally have a decent trade partner that we could rape draft picks from.
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Assuming you meant trade UP
that would be nice
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I know it sounds crazy and I am just thinking out loud, but if they don't want Carr anymore, I wonder if we would even be interested in swapping 3/4 to them and we move down to 8 and take Carr off their hands. As far as cap implications, he does have a pretty lofty yearly salary (5.25 mill next year) however, his prorated signing bonus cap charge would go against Houston... so his yearly salary would be his total cap hit for the next two years. And some of that would be offset by the salary differences between the draft picks so it woulnd't be a big blow to cap space.
Despite having the hands down worst offensive line in the league and only one good receiver over the past 3 years, he's still managed to put up 83.5, 77.2 and 82.1 QB ratings. That's not bad considering the line and the receiver corps he's had to deal with. Of course, the risks would be the Couch like trama from all the hits he has taken but so far he doesn't seem to be broken down.
Now with the 8th selection, Branch or Peterson could be there and if not, Levi Brown or Amobi Okoye could be possibilities. Lets just go with the scenario Adrian Peterson falls to #8 and we take him. And in round 2, we select a guard like Sears, Grubbs or Blalock.
QB Carr / Frye / Anderson
RB Peterson / Droughns
WR Edwards
WR Jurivicius
WR Wilson
TE Winslow / Heiden
LT Shaffer
LG FA
CC Fraley or Bentley
RG Sears or Blalock or Grubbs
RT Tucker
As I said above, I'm not promoting this idea, I am just "typing out loud."
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Considering just 12 months ago the Texans tried to LOW BALL Reggie Bush, and Vince Young...I dont think they want to move up.
The only reason they took Mario Williams was he took the offer they wanted to give....Of course he did....Mario was a top 10 pick...but no one thought he was the top pick overall....so of course he said he would take top pick money.
The Texans passed on local favorite Vince Young (who would have sold out that stadium all by himself) and Matt Lienart...because they said CARR IS OUR GUY....even committing to the BONUS cash Carr was due....I dont see them getting another young arm anytime soon....Get Plummer...and build that Oline...then get your QB in another 2 or 3 years...Plummer wont be happy going to Houston and starting for 8 weeks until their season is over..and they start their new blue chip rookie.
I dont see the Texans trading up at all....if anything they will trade down...for CHEAPER picks.
They are quickly becoming the dumbest team in the NFL.....Wait...the Raiders are still in the NFL right?
HACK
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i agree hack, dumb dumb dumb.
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Carr is worth the veteran minimum, IMO. If they don't release him or restructure his contract, forget it.
This is probably the only guy worth looking at in FA due to his upside, and only his upside, cuz his results so far have been horrendous.
And no, that's not an endorsement. That's saying if we're gonna pick up someone in FA, pick up a guy who at least has a shot of fixing his career. None of the other guys have a snowball's chance in hell.
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I saw in a draft forum that the Vikings are going to Offer Garcia.... drum roll please $4 million PER! Where is the faint smilie/emoticon when you need it! 
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If the Texans were willing to take our 4th rounder, I'd do it in a heartbeat. He has all the tools and can run. He was finally starting to develope when his line took yet another dump and he was pummelled.
We want a servicable starter who's a game manager? That's Carr far more than it's Frye.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
This is probably the only guy worth looking at in FA due to his upside, and only his upside, cuz his results so far have been horrendous.
I disagree with that. As I noted before, his QB rating has been pretty solid considering the junk OL he's had and only 1 quality receiver in his entire tenure (Andre Johnson). Over the past three years he's had 83.5, 77.2 and 82.1 ratings. For comparisons from last season:
Chad Pennington: 82.6
Jake Delhomme: 82.6
Steve McNair: 82.5
John Kitna: 79.9
Eli Manning: 77.0
Matt Hasselbeck: 76.0
Considering Carr has been given junk to work with I strongly disagree his play has been "horrendous." His offensive line and receivers are what have been horrendous.
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Much as I hate to agree ..... I'd agree. LOL   Carr would be an improvement over either Frye or Anderson. (or probably any free agent we could pick up) He's also still relatively young. This is the perfect kind of guy to take a 3rd or 4th round "gamble" on. I'd rather spend a 4th on Carr than on a Perkins quality player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hack you are bring everything to light on this.. It really doesn't make sense for them to dump Carr.. if they did, they would be admitting that they made a mistake on not taking Young last season.. Talk about a PR nigthmare,,, yikes... funny thing is, the guy that pulled the trigger on Mario Williams (charlie casserly) isn't even there anymore so he doesn't have to take any blame or heat.... GENIUS!
As far as I'm concerned, this seems to be a smokescreen.,.. Either that or the Texans are really DUMB!
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I would even trade a 3rd for Carr. Then draft two offensive lineman and we could have a very soild offensive.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Quote:
Quote:
This is probably the only guy worth looking at in FA due to his upside, and only his upside, cuz his results so far have been horrendous.
I disagree with that. As I noted before, his QB rating has been pretty solid considering the junk OL he's had and only 1 quality receiver in his entire tenure (Andre Johnson). Over the past three years he's had 83.5, 77.2 and 82.1 ratings. For comparisons from last season:
Chad Pennington: 82.6
Jake Delhomme: 82.6
Steve McNair: 82.5
John Kitna: 79.9
Eli Manning: 77.0
Matt Hasselbeck: 76.0
Considering Carr has been given junk to work with I strongly disagree his play has been "horrendous." His offensive line and receivers are what have been horrendous.
Stop looking at strictly QB rating. He started all 16 games this season and only threw for 2700 yards and 11 TD's. That's Frye-like there, he just protected the ball better with fewer INT's and fewer fumbles. 11 TD's to 12 INT's.
Their yards per attempt were equal, 6.26 yards per attempt.
If we could bring in Carr and he could return to 2004 form (3500 yards, 16 TD's, 14 INT's), then maybe he could build from there.
This year according to many who watch the Texans (I'm not one of them), he retreated completely into dink and dunker.
That being said, he's still the best of the early first round retreads of recent years. Better than Joey Harrington.
I'd only like him for his upside, not what he's done in past years cuz he hasn't impressed me.
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Quote:
Stop looking at strictly QB rating. He started all 16 games this season and only threw for 2700 yards and 11 TD's. That's Frye-like there, he just protected the ball better with fewer INT's and fewer fumbles. 11 TD's to 12 INT's.
It's not just the QB rating. It is other items as you just mentioned such as better ball protection and better decisions. Yet despite having the worst collective surrounding offensive talent, he still put up a decent rating. Sure he didn't have Manning like yards or touchdowns but his only legit weapon was Andre Johnson. Over the past 3 years, he's had a pretty steady, middle of the road rating despite what is in my opinion, indisputably the worst collection of talent around him on offense. Andre Johnson is a stud, Dom Davis is a serviceable RB. Outside of that, nothing for three years straight. That's impressive IMO, far from horrendous.
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I would like to forget about getting another Qb and focus on building a O-line, where Paul Mcdonald could have started behind.
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I agree Toad. Carr has more intangibles than Frye. People saw what Carr could do when he had time in the pocket, he made plays. He had one major weapon in Houston in Andre Johnson. In Cleveland we have K2, Edwards, JJ, and maybe as far as Wilson. But anything more than a 4th rounder, I say no way Jose. 
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if they did, they would be admitting that they made a mistake on not taking Young last season.. Talk about a PR nigthmare,,, yikes... funny thing is, the guy that pulled the trigger on Mario Williams (charlie casserly) isn't even there anymore which makes the perfect time to dump him now if that's what they wanna do. the whole planet knows that casserly was the idiot that screwed up their pick, and what better time for the texans to endorse that opinion. you can't keep a player forever for fear of people thinking you screwed up. you cut your losses and move on when your in the position to do so. casserly was the idiot not the texans, and this is the perfect time to prove it. besides........ i want carr. 
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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You know what Knox,,, I hadn't thought of it that way,,, you could very well be right,, As for wanting Carr,,, Be careful what you wish for
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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i would take forrest gump over charlie frye, if that tells you anything.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Really,,,,, I hadn't noticed
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Highest I'd give for Plumber? 6th.... highest for Carr? 4th...
Neither one has impressed me much... Carr is still young and has a lot of tools... so if he gets in the right situation he may be able to do well... I'm not sure I'd really want him in Cleveland besides the fact that he's experienced.... but he has a lot of issues... tries to make too much out of nothing, doesn't make the best decisions, etc.
I could see the Texans taking a QB if one of the big boys fall to them, but I think they really want Peterson to drop to them... if they take Plumer they could try and pick up a QB later on the first day.
<><
#gmstrong
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I posted this possibility a couple of weeks ago link Kinda got laughed at  about it. I hope the trade happens, so that we can get some actual depth at QB and cuz I think that Detroit won't let Thomas fall to us, and I don't think that there's anyone we need worth the #3/4 pick.
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Quote:
If the Texans were willing to take our 4th rounder, I'd do it in a heartbeat. He has all the tools and can run. He was finally starting to develope when his line took yet another dump and he was pummelled.
We want a servicable starter who's a game manager? That's Carr far more than it's Frye.
Hey frog... how's it going? I agree, I'd give a 4th for Carr in a heartbeat but I'm not sure we could get him for just a 4th? Maybe a 4th and someone like Chaun Thompson? (though I'd like to keep him as depth) So maybe we could give them 4th and Ken Dorsey... For that matter, I'd give them Frye, because I don't think he would really be happy as a backup after starting; or Derek Anderson and our 4th. I think we could get Carr but we still have to fix the OL.
However, this is still just reports of the Texans getting rid of Carr, not yet confirmed.
Last edited by Rabidfan; 02/08/07 10:00 PM.
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I think Carr is worth taking a look at.
Carr and Frye have had the same issues (terrible YPA behind crappy OL)
but Carr has a better arm and has been in the league a lot longer, so there is less uncertany.
We really won't ever know if it was an OL issue, or Carr holding the ball too long that resulted in the sacks.
But I would send someone into the film room to figure that one out.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I've seen a ton of Carr, and he's light years ahead of Frye in a couple of categories. He's more accurate (it's not close) and he has a far better arm. Now there are few QB's in the league that can move around like Frye, but Carr still has above-average mobility.
I'd value car around the 79th-89th selection in the draft. Our 3rd is too high but our 4th would do it for me.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Don't know enough about Huard.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well, since you're rating Carr higher than Charlie in almost all categories and we picked Charlie in the 3rd round either you believe CF was drafted too high or you think Houston is dumb enough to take a 4th. Or both. Have I got that right?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
CF was drafted too high
Clearly.
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I don't get this. You guys want to hang on to mid round draft picks like their more valuable than a proven starter. So if Carr came out of the draft this year you think he would go in the forth round ? Some of you are "OK" with taking Russell or BQ or at least understand Phil's thinking if he does... IN THE FIRST ROUND. You would rather have BQ or Russell for a #3 overall than give up a 3rd rounder for Carr ? He's already proven he has the arm, accuracy and toughness in the NFL. Can you say that about any rookie we draft ? Would you rather we take Troy Smith in the third ? Not me...
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I'd take Carr over Frye in a New York minute.
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There probably isn't a thing wrong with Carr that an Oline couldn't fix,,, As of this moment, I can't say that with any degree of certainty about Frye.. I still have questions. (oh heck, even the staunchest of Frye supporters have some questions so I'm not really alone there)
To me, here is the big difference between Frye and Carr.. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Frye costs next to nothing,, Carr is gonna cost you a pick and serious green.
Frye may develop behind a line, Carr may also.. Neither is guaranteed.. Some will say that Carr is the better bet..
So here's my thinking. Stick with Frye. We aren't going anywhere this next season,, we may improve, but that's about it..
Stick with Frye, use the picks and money to build up the lines on both sides of the ball,,, and trade for or draft another QB later,,, same wth a RB...
I'd really like to see what Frye, Droughns, Harrison, Wright etc etc could do behind a decent line and with some consistent coaching and play calling..
Oh, and I'd really like to see how we look if receivers didn't drop so darn many balls.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I agree with giving Frye another year. Lets build the rest of the team and hope he can at least play like Dilfer or Grossman during their SB runs.
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Quote:
I agree with giving Frye another year. Lets build the rest of the team and hope he can at least play like Dilfer or Grossman during their SB runs.
I concur.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Hmmmm, I think I'd take Carr over Plummer. But that's just my opinion. I don't know why Houston would go out of their way for him.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I've always liked Carr...and would welcome him here. I think thats more than a healthy competition with Carr n Frye...I think I know who the winner would be and the #2 would be great for us as well!
Combined with a Joe Thomas pick...I think a great move by us.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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What is clear about it? You're telling me that if we had, say, Indy's offensive line that Charlie wouldn't have looked much better and been cemented in as our starter for the foreseeable future?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Charlie is gonna be a Pro Bowler. But I also don't think he's the load of crap that some on here make him out to be. You get some guys in front of him that look more like NFL linemen and less like morgue residents on CSI and he'll do alright. I'd be willing to bet on it.
Would I take Carr for a 3rd round pick? You bet. But I don't think it's gonna happen. Just like I don't think we're really looking to replace Charlie. At least not this year.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Man, sometimes I wonder if we think things through before we hit the send button *L*
Quote:
either you believe CF was drafted too high
It's nitpicky to say he was taken several picks too early or too late. I never thought he was a 1st or 2nd rounder, but I never thought he was a 6th rounder either. I never said he was drafted too high. I wouldn't have taken him, but that doesn't mean he didn't carry a 3rd or 4th round value coming out.
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or you think Houston is dumb enough to take a 4th. Or both. Have I got that right?
Would we have been dumb enough to take a 4th for Couch? The point is that when you have a QB that you no longer believe in, it's better to get something for him than nothing. Nobody will trade a 1st for Carr. So is getting a 4th rounder for him dumb, or is it smart business? The Texans are "noncomital" on Carr which is a vote of no confidence. If they decide that he's history, then a high 4th is probably feasible. If they decide to let him compete against the likes of Plummer or another vet, then it's not.
Dumb is a relative term to any given situation, so the Texans wouldn't be "dumb enough" to take a 4th if it's the only offer on the table for a guy they no longer want.
So no, you haven't got that right
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AWABrownsfan,
I don't get this. You guys want to hang on to mid round draft picks like their more valuable than a proven starter. So if Carr came out of the draft this year you think he would go in the forth round ?
I'd rather have a starting guard with that 3rd rounder, as the line is more important to me than a QB right now, and in my opinion, I feel more comfortable with a 3rd round guard than a 4th rounder.
Who said anything about Carr being a guy that would now go in the 4th round? I was clearly speaking of his trade value based on his current perceived worth.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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