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If we had an Andy Reed here runnin' the show you'd still be here...And a WHINER...
Fixed. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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You can call it "greed" if you want, though the connotation is badly flawed. I would have done the exact same thing if I was Garcia.
Toad...for sure it was "greed" on Garcia's part.
GREG BEACHAM, AP Sports Writer
AP Online
03-02-2004
Dateline: SANTA CLARA, Calif.
Quarterback Jeff Garcia was released by the San Francisco 49ers on Tuesday, ending his five-year tenure with the team.
The 49ers also released two-time Pro Bowl guard Ron Stone in an attempt to get under the salary cap.
Garcia, a three-time Pro Bowler, was unable to agree on a restructured contract with the 49ers, who wanted to reduce his salary from the $9.9 million he was scheduled to earn in 2004.
Instead, San Francisco will save $1.7 million against the salary cap by dropping Garcia, a local product who holds the franchise's single-season record for passing ... web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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The Niners wanted to cut his pay in half on a team that didn't support him the way most would have expected when Owens was hammering him.
His agent and the Niners were negotiating, but the Niners had to get under the cap and Garcia wanted some security. They cut several big-name players, including Garrison Hearts and traded Owens. They released others as well. Salary cap Hell was a problem back then.
That isn't "greed." You may think it is, but you'd also likely believe that most players are "greedy" when they want that extra million on their big payday.
There's no doubt Garcia was a sensitive guy who had a problem keeping his big mouth shut, but most players in the league would have done the same thing he did.
For whatever reason, you seem to want Garcia to be the bad guy here. I get it now. 
He was "greedy" for not wanting to take a 50% pay cut, and it wasn't Butch Davis' fault that Butch backed out of a promise to bring Walsh in. In fact, you actually blamed Garcia for not checking to be sure Butch talked to him
Now THAT is a "hidden agenda." 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Legend
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The first overall pick in 1999, Couch splits time between homes in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and Lexington, Ky., with his wife, Heather, and their two sons, Chase, 4, and Brady, 6 months.
OK ... Brady Couch ........?
21 years or so from now .... I think we've found our QB ....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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The first overall pick in 1999, Couch splits time between homes in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and Lexington, Ky., with his wife, Heather, and their two sons, Chase, 4, and Brady, 6 months.
OK ... Brady Couch ........?
21 years or so from now .... I think we've found our QB ....
LOL...almost makes me thankful I probably won't be alive then, or so old I won't care.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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That's funny.  Only thing is, for all his knocks, Couch had a knack for winning games he shouldn't have won... and putting us in the playoffs, which hasn't happened a whole lot in Cleveland the past 20 years or so. Maybe if Clark and Botch had put more stock in building an O-line, Couch would have performed better than he did. You guys can bag on him all you want, but nothing can dent my appreciation for what Couch did in his five years, especially when you factor in the garbage talent he had around him. It's a wonder the O-line didn't get him killed.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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That's funny.
Only thing is, for all his knocks, Couch had a knack for winning games he shouldn't have won... and putting us in the playoffs, which hasn't happened a whole lot in Cleveland the past 20 years or so.
Maybe if Clark and Botch had put more stock in building an O-line, Couch would have performed better than he did.
You guys can bag on him all you want, but nothing can dent my appreciation for what Couch did in his five years, especially when you factor in the garbage talent he had around him.
It's a wonder the O-line didn't get him killed.
Cool.
My Couch debating days are over as he is no longer a member of my team.
You are starting to sound like Mac..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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No debating for me, either (well I suppose it is 'debating')... it's merely sticking up for a guy who I feel did more good than bad for us. Besides it's Dec. 30 and we're 4-11.... good time as any for a Tim Couch "discussion". Now someone is gonna post his admittedly pedestrian career stats and talk about how the spread offense at Kentucky hid his weaknesses.
gmstrong -----------------
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You guys can bag on him all you want
Getting.................very...................very..................hard............to........resist.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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jc
you can't argue with anything Couch said... that is why there are starters and people who fill in. The people that fill in are good for a game or to finish the season yet not good enough to cause controversey.
EG look what the patroits did... they had 2 good qb's and traded the one away. Problem solved. When you keep 2 roosters in the hen house.... it is always uneasy and the house is split between the two roosters. See the Cleveland Browns for the last decade.
McNabb has said publically... something along the lines of what if I was drafted by the Browns? I'd be out of the NFL too.
Couch was a decent/good starting QB with a really bad O line with some really bad coaches. Nothing more nothing less.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Dawg Talker
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Oh just let loose already! Please?  (Thanks, dong. I like the popcorn smiley. I approve.)
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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If we took the very best of Couch, Holcomb, Quinn and Anderson we could have a pretty good QB.
If we took the very worst of each we would have some sort of wretched mongoloid running for his life, throwing violently some 20 yards out of bounds.
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If we took the very worst of each we would have some sort of wretched mongoloid running for his life, throwing violently some 20 yards out of bounds.
Which is eerily similar to what we've seen all season.
#GMSTRONG
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haha, they definitely need to add that to our graemlins list.
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If we took the very worst of each we would have some sort of wretched mongoloid running for his life, throwing violently some 20 yards out of bounds.
Now, why do I have this mental picture of Mike Myers wearing a hockey helmet, tethered to a Jungle Gym?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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All Pro
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We did have Jeff Garcia and he didn't do well either and went on to have a few good years since leaving the Browns.
But some other excuse will be used to dismiss Garcia. For some reasons some Browns fans need it to be all on the QB. lol
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all that perception, flawed or otherwise, just went out the window with the hiring of one Mike Holmgren.
Or he will fall victim to the Browns backup QB curse....talked up like crazy by the fans, unrealistic expectations..fails to deliver.
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That isn't "greed." You may think it is, but you'd also likely believe that most players are "greedy" when they want that extra million on their big payday.
Garcia was asked to restructure to remain in SF...he refused...he did it for the money, Toad.
Garcia had a deal with the Bucs until Butch paniced and outbid them for Garcia. Like I said, I doubt that Garcia ever checked with Walsh to see if Butch contacted Walsh to come an install the WCO for him in Cleveland.
Garcia saw the dollar signs and that is all that mattered. It was a horrible move by Garcia and the Browns as Garcia was one and done in Cleveland.
Garcia did have "other issues" in SF but he has followed the money since leaving SF...call it what you want...it was still a horrible move for him and the Browns.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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.it was still a horrible move for him and the Browns.
I don't think the move itself was horrible, but we sure seemed to tie his hands once he got here.
I never could understand why we got a mobile qb who liked to throw on the move and more or less told him he had to play a drop back system.
It was a short honeymoon no doubt.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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.it was still a horrible move for him and the Browns.
I don't think the move itself was horrible, but we sure seemed to tie his hands once he got here.
I never could understand why we got a mobile qb who liked to throw on the move and more or less told him he had to play a drop back system.
It was a short honeymoon no doubt.
Peen..I'm dealing with "reality" not what looked good on paper or in someone's mind.
In 2004 Garcia put up career lows and he QBed the Browns to just 3 wins.
It was a horrible move when one looks at his performance and the teams performance.
I'm not sure what else you would want to judge him on, other than "performance"...he did have more girlfriends "fighting" over him in Cleveland...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Garcia was asked to restructure to remain in SF...he refused...he did it for the money, Toad.
There's a fundamental difference between doing it for "the money and respect" and doing it for "greed."
The Niners wanted to cut his salary in half. There are very few pro-bowl caliber QB's in the league today who would willingly take a 50% paycut and stay.
That isn't greed. Besides, you're ignoring all the other factors, such as the respect Garcia didn't feel he was getting, but that doesn't fit with what you want to believe.
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Garcia had a deal with the Bucs until Butch paniced and outbid them for Garcia.
More picking the facts you want to make your argument, while ignoring the ones that don't fit with your argument.
Gruden didn't offer anything more than a chance to compete for a starting job. Butch handed it to him. Butch also PROMISED Garcia he'd bring in Walsh to install the WCO, the only offense Garcia had ever known in the NFL, and the one he could function in.
Of course that would shoot all kinds of holes in your "greed" theory. 
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Like I said, I doubt that Garcia ever checked with Walsh to see if Butch contacted Walsh to come an install the WCO for him in Cleveland.
That has to be one of the silliest things I've ever seen someone say.
You're trying to blame Garcia for not verifying Walsh's inclusions in the plans.
LAUGHABLE!
Besides, that isn't ALL you said: You said Butch didn't actually say he'd bring Walsh in.
Do you still say that, or are you back-pedaling?
Of course you were also one of the loudest saying Garcia was finished as a QB. A couple of stellar seasons as the Bucs starter shot all kinds of holes in that belief. But take solace in the fact that you weren't the only one who wrongly believed that............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Garcia was asked to restructure to remain in SF...he refused...he did it for the money, Toad.
There's a fundamental difference between doing it for "the money and respect" and doing it for "greed."
The Niners wanted to cut his salary in half. There are very few pro-bowl caliber QB's in the league today who would willingly take a 50% paycut and stay.
Toad...do you have any idea how much Garcia was making?
During Garcia last two seasons with the 49ers, he earned more than $20 million (more than any other NFL quarterback) and his cap hit for 2004 was to be over $12 million.
Garcia was asked to restructure and he and his agent refused...was it greed?..
You claim the 49ers asked him to take a 50% pay cut...though I didn't find anything to back up your claim, a 50% cut of $12mill (2004 cap projection) would have been 6 million per.
...IMO, Garcia and his agent thought the 49ers would give in rather than let Garcia walk...they were wrong. Obviously Garcia and his agent thought they could make more on the open market....IMO, Garcia's #1 motive for moving on was money.
So you and I disagree...no biggie to me...lol... 
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Garcia had a deal with the Bucs until Butch panicked and outbid them for Garcia.
More picking the facts you want to make your argument, while ignoring the ones that don't fit with your argument.
Gruden didn't offer anything more than a chance to compete for a starting job. Butch handed it to him. Butch also PROMISED Garcia he'd bring in Walsh to install the WCO, the only offense Garcia had ever known in the NFL, and the one he could function in.
Toad...Gruden had Brad Johnson, Brian Griese and Chris Sims on his roster when Gruden tried to sign Garcia. So what did you expect Gruden to say at that time?...no, he didn't publicly guarantee the job to Garcia...but you tell me that Bucs were going to sign Garcia to a contract "reported" to be a multi-year $15 to $20 million, then "sit" him?...I'm sure you believe that BS!
Garcia's dad reported that Jeff was going to sign with the Bucs for $15 to $20 million, Butch Davis panicked and offered Garcia even more money, $25 million for 4 yrs and Garcia changed his mind about signing with Tampa and signed Butch's deal just that quickly. No, Garcia was not greedy...Garcia loved Cleveland...lol..sure toad.
toad...again we disagree about Garcia's motivation to sign with the Browns..so be it..not a debatable point, IMO.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Couch Defends Quinn and Anderson
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