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i agree with Charger...they're not gonna want to give away picks to rid themselves of Carr, regardless of the tradeup in round 1...
problem with simply swapping #1's is a problem of perception, IMO...we could still get an impact player (Branch, Anderson, Okoye, Peterson) and get a legit starting QB, BUT the media would jump all over that value chart, saying that we gave a mid-1st (800 pts) or a mid-2nd(400) for an underachiever QB..i wouldn't agree, mind you, but there would be a lot of fans screaming how dumb Savage is for not getting at least their 2nd in return...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Screw the value chart.
That thing only prevents trades. It is a bunch of made up numbers. Value is determined by the teams....any given day, any given year.
That value chart deserves it's place on the pile of papers you would find in a outhouse.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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perception of the masses is influential...reality all-too-often becomes secondary...
Browns fans are born with it...
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True enough.
At some point a person needs to understand that the "masses" unusally don't know what the heck they are talking about.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Texans | Carr drawing interest from other teams
Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:29:14 -0800 KFFL.com
Updating a previous report, John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the Houston Texans have admitted receiving interest from other teams regarding QB David Carr's availability. "First, let me say that David is our starting quarterback," general manager Rick Smith said today. "I've fielded some calls about some of our players, including a couple of inquiries asking whether David might be available." If Carr is traded, the team would likely look for a veteran to compete with QB Sage Rosenfels for the starting job.
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Not exactly a denial uh ?
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Mav the cap hit is miniscule for the position.
If we like what we see we sign him long term after the season.
If we don't we can always release him. There is no Cap hit for a signing bonus the loss would be what we gave up for him. If moving up in the draft it would have been the chart value of a 2nd rounder but not a physical 2nd round pick just the dropping back of 3 or 4 spots in the draft.???
I try to stay away from QB threads - I might make one or two posts but not the mega posts that posters do in a Deadbate thread.
But I've always like Carr. A lot. I've watched him retard over the last couple of years as the HITS just keep mounting up - My only fear is how damaged are the goods? But he would be perfect for us. There's a lot of talent in this kid.
The NFL should ban expansion teams from picking QB with their first pick!!! 
JMHO
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Quote:
Texans | Carr drawing interest from other teams
Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:29:14 -0800 KFFL.com
Updating a previous report, John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the Houston Texans have admitted receiving interest from other teams regarding QB David Carr's availability. "First, let me say that David is our starting quarterback," general manager Rick Smith said today. "I've fielded some calls about some of our players, including a couple of inquiries asking whether David might be available." If Carr is traded, the team would likely look for a veteran to compete with QB Sage Rosenfels for the starting job.
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Not exactly a denial uh ?
Everyone here in Houston knows that the Texans want to get rid of Carr... most sports people here are talking about how a lot of the 'Texans admit getting calls' is a bunch of BS... I'm sure they are getting one or two.... but I'm guessing most of it is smokescreen so they can up their asking price... because there's not much of a market for him IMO. The Texans need to move him... he has a huge salary and won't be starting even if he does stay here. I see them cutting him before bringing him back.
<><
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Frankly, I tend to believe that Carr is gonna be a hot name.
Look at what's going to be available to these teams. They'll have to pick from a group that most likely includes Brooks, Harrington, Brad Johnson, AJ Feeley, Jeff Garcia, and a bunch of guys that nobody has ever heard of. Garcia is the only proven name in that list that may have something left in the tank, but he's a pure system QB and not many teams are gonna run his system.
That leaves David Carr for what's likely to be a non-top-65 selection in the draft.
Carr is a high character guy who has the size, arm, and mobility that every team looks for. He is a reclamation project but is still a better QB than all but one that will be available. Despite getting blasted at a rate that ranks below NOBODY in the history of the league, he's started every game for the past 3 seasons and hasn't said a word.
There's a lot to like about David Carr, especially when he can be had for a 3rd or 4th round selection. He's a far better QB than Frye is right now, and is entering what's supposed to be the prime of his career. I'd rather spend a high pick on a safer guy than a QB, fill a few spots with some decent free agents, and gamble a lower pick on a guy like Carr.
You give me Joe Thomas and a 2nd round guard with the moves we'll make, and I know Carr will be far better than Frye.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad, that sounds like a very good plan too me. 
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For a fourth I'd be fine with Carr - no way I give the Texans a first day pick.
<><
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Probably not where we sit at the top of the round. If we were middle or lower I might.
We gave a 3rd for Frye...and Carr is better than Frye.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Just for information 8 David Carr Position: QB Height: 6-3 Weight: 230 Born: 07/21/1979 College: Fresno State NFL Experience: 5 Career Stats | Game Logs: 01 02 03 04 05 06 | Situational Stats | Team Roster Passing Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate 2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 31 5 62.8 2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 22 5 69.5 2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 47 6 83.5 2005 Houston Texans 16 16 423 256 60.5 2488 5.88 53 14 11 68/424 18 2 77.2 2006 Houston Texans 16 16 442 302 68.3 2767 6.26 53 11 12 41/240 25 3 82.1 TOTAL 76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5 http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268
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Kind of hard to read the numbers, but they don't look that bad to me. He might be a guy about ready to find his groove.
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Here's a quick summary of Carr's numbers: Past three seasons, ratings of 83, 77, and 82, completing around 63% of his passes with 40 TD's and 37 INT's, and Frye-like rushing stats while being the most sacked QB in the league. He also fumbles way too much but takes far better care of the ball in the passing game.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I can live with the 12 ints. a year. His accuracy is a big plus.
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He sounds like a guy who needs a fresh start. A new team might be what this guy needs....I might even give up the 3rd if need be if I was calling the shots...then give him at minimum a 2nd round guard and hopefuly a free agent lineman, then see what happens.
I wonder if we swapped slots in the 1st with Texas...would that be enough?? drop 4 solts and get Carr.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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He needs to learn to throw the damn thing away though... and his accuracy is inflated IMO because he loves the under 5 yard pass...
<><
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Quote:
Screw the value chart.
LOL I'm really glad somebody said what I've felt for a long time. If a trade looks like it helps our team who gives a fiddlers screw what the numbers on the chart say? Do it already.  
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He does need to throw it away more. I've seen that myself. Seen Frye do the same thing 
As far as the underneath stuff, hey, when you the most sacked QB in the history of the league over your first five years, sure, you're not gonna sit in the pocket and wait for patterns to develope. Furthermore, much of that is the coaching staff, as it was documented that he'd been instructed to start taking the underneath stuff more often. Combine that with a severe case of Shellshock, and yeah, he's going to dump down.
Here's the thing that I've noticed with him over the last couple of years. You've prolly noticed the same thing. He's had Andre Johnson and..........and........and..........nobody. He looks downfield, doesn't see Johnson open, then the mental clock that tells him he's about to get blindsided goes off and he dumps down (or does indeed get pounded *L*). Johnson had 103 catches last year. If he didn't get the ball, Carr dumped it down or got sacked.
As I've said numerous times allready, he is a reclamation project, but the things that he's doing wrong can be fixed. It's not as though he doesn't have the arm, the wheels, or the accuracy. He's developed bad habits from bad coaching and a bad line. Give him a guy that's similiar to Johnson in Edwards and a dump-off like Winslow and he's probably going to look even better than he did in Houston. Remember, that line was actually worse than ours 
As far as the inflated accuracy numbers, yeah, they were inflated this year, but during the year where he had a running game AND Andre Johnson, Carr threw for 3500 yards, 16 TD's 14 INT's, completed 61% of his passes, AND averaged more than 7.5 yards per attempt. That 7.5 YPA number is right in line with Tom Brady of a couple of years ago and Philip Rivers this season. Oh yeah, he chipped in 300 yards rushing.
There's something to base a history of developement on here.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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Rumor I am hearing is the Vikes are offering a 4th for Carr.
Could be had for a 4th? or just trying to get a bidding way going for a 3rd?
HACK
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Smarter men than I don't know the answer to that question.
I know I'd trade a 4th, only because I'd take a 3rd round guard before I'd take Carr. Having said that, I think he's the kind of guy that is still worth a 3rd. I think a 2nd rounder is pushing it, but one never really knows.
What I do know is that we're picking ahead of the Vikes, so our 4th looks better than their 4th
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree with you the most part OT... like I said earlier for a late rounder I wouldn't mind him... but after having to watch him every sunday for the last two years I'm not very impressed with him (really reminds me of Timmy really). He's a great guy and a pretty good leader and has a lot of the physical skills....
in terms of people to go to... yeah he only had Johnson early on, but he had Moulds brought in who is a solid receiver (not big time but solid) and Mathis was a very capable WR when healthy.... this year he was screwed IMO because he had virtually no running game for most of the year.... and I know his OL gets blamed for a lot of his sacks... but there were numerous times when he had time to get rid of it and he either just tried to do too much or just made a poor decision.
He is a project... and who knows... if he gets on a new team he may flourish... I want a vet to come in and help our team out so I wouldn't be mad if we got him... just depends on what we have to give up.
<><
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Ok, we're on the same page.
I'm game for our 4th rounder, but not our 3rd. How about you......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Agree 100%... think I said it above... I'm ok with a 4th rounder... but I want the third rounder for some line help (hopfully our first three will be either OL or DL). I think it was Peen who said we gave a 3rd for Frye so it'd be worth Carr to warrent a third... I disagree... the Texans want him out of town so bad it ain't funny.
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Quote:
Kind of hard to read the numbers, but they don't look that bad to me. He might be a guy about ready to find his groove.
Yeah his passing #s look fine...and I agree that RIGHT NOW he would be an upgrade over Frye....but Im not sure long term....look up Carrs #s and Fryes in his first 20 starts...Frye has better #s
and here´s another stat that some of you forget: 3 years, 48 starts, 43 fumbles...yes 43 !! ...got lucky that only 15 got lost....so if you think Frye fumbles too much, think again
then, you look at both Fryes and Carrs paycheck PLUS the fact that you´ll have serious QB-competition...with a disappointed and POed #2 and a #3 who wants out of CLE right after after TC after having started several games 2006 and shown more promise than being clipboard holder on a bad team
If you factor all that into the equation....I dont think it´s a very good idea overall
I would cringe if we gave up our 4th rounder...but could live with it even if I dont think its a good idea.....
A 1st day pick would be a horrible decision...ok, maybe swapping our 3rd with their 4th...but even that would be too much for me
I guess I just dont think its that good of an idea overall.....Carr is a tease..at least Charlie is only a 20 starts tease...and much more cap friendly
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Quote:
Yeah his passing #s look fine...and I agree that RIGHT NOW he would be an upgrade over Frye....but Im not sure long term....look up Carrs #s and Fryes in his first 20 starts...Frye has better #s
Shoot, look up Carr's teammates the first 20 starts, then look up Frye's
Apples to apples, not Raman noodles to dog [censored].
Quote:
and here´s another stat that some of you forget: 3 years, 48 starts, 43 fumbles...yes 43 !! ...got lucky that only 15 got lost....so if you think Frye fumbles too much, think again
He does. They both do. That isn't news.
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at least Charlie is only a 20 starts tease...and much more cap friendly
A bum is a bum. If we're only paying him $500k per year, does that make him any less of a bum than the guy we're paying $4 million?
Cap friendly doesn't mean jack if the QB can't play. I'd gladly give any QB $10 million per year right now for an 85 passer rating.
I'm not telling you Frye is crap compared to Carr (even though he's not as good). I'm telling you that painting one side of the picture doesn't jive.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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just wondering if a player has ever been traded for swapping slots in multiple rounds...
i'd give a 4th, and consider a 3rd, depending on what the board looked like when we were on the clock...but if i were the GM, i'd start by offering a swap of picks in rounds 2, 3, and 4...technically, the chart says it's worth having a mid-4th, which is, of course, nonsense, b/c there's no extra pick involved...however, that takes care of any possible chart-based media/fan backlash...
the way i would sell the idea to them is that we both need OL and 3-4 DL...as it stands, we're likely to take some playeers they'd like to have in those early rounds...so this multi-swap trade gives them the 'upper hand' on those choices...meanwhile, i trust that there'll still be a starting G at #8 in round 2, no matter who they take, either a decent DL or CB prospect in round 3, and a 1st-day-leftover in 4...they get their pick, but we're not left with junk, either...
Browns fans are born with it...
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That's a creative way to do a deal. I can't recall a team swapping a player for a straight exchange of position in multiple-rounds, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and it certainly doesn't mean it couldn't. That chart is the bible of draft-day selection trading, and everything that goes on that chart will equate to the amount of compensation that a team wants or the deal won't happen.
Carr's gone. The question is to whom and for how much. I'm sure he'll have to refashion his deal, as it'd be tough to swallow that kind of money on a reclamation project.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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OK, there's no doubt that he'd have to re-work a contract in order for someone to take him in a trade. I'm sure he knows it, too.
Now, how would that get done while someone is on the clock? Let's say we're on the clock in round 2 and Houston calls and offers Carr as compensation for swapping places in rounds 2, 3 and 4 (I agree that's creative, and no reason why it can't be done). How much time does a team have in the 2nd round, 10 minutes? Call Carr's agent and try to work out parameters for a new deal in enough time to either make the trade or run a name up to the podium? Even though nothing gets signed?
I'd imagine we'd have to have that conversation ahead of time, so that something could get done while we're on the clock.
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The problem in this deal is that he can't be traded on draft day. There simply isn't time to work out all the contract crap. Carr will get done before the draft or after, but not during.
Then again, the Raiders are the laughingstock of the league. I wouldn't put it past them to simply take Carr and his contract
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Like I said a week ago - I'd take Carr over Frye, darn quick.
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I'd probably sit Carr over Frye...let the kid heal - look outside the glass house a year...forget all his bad habits and start over in the learning process.
Of course if Frye was struggling Carr would have to come in.
Ideally that is what I would do. The guy is damaged goods right now. Throwing him into the fire especially with an OL that is going to be thrown together...once again for us. Will only continue that regression. Because of who we got on the OL and similar bad things that Carr had in Houston. It would be best to sit him give him a chance to forget the insanity and focus on the correct way to play the position. From the outside of the glass house looking in. Would probably prove best.
And what if Frye proves to "GET IT" his 3rd year. Even if we feel Carr is the better QB and he now gets it. Thats a great position to be in. Worst case scenario we get a real high pick for Frye???
JMHO
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Go Browns!
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David Carr?
No thanks.
No interest on my part.
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Quote:
Poster: Charlie
Subject: Re: Car likely done in Houston
David Carr?
No thanks.
No interest on my part.
no kidding?
Browns fans are born with it...
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Car likely done in Houston
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