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Figured the other thread went 9 pages is due for a lock might as well continue the discussion.
Truthfully the only way i see Mangini getting another year is Holmgren is dead set on waiting for Gruden. Things I hope and chance I think they happen:
1) We get a new QB (95%)
2) We get a new OC and the WCO (100%)
3) We keep the 3-4 defense and Ryan (50%)
I will say beating Pittsburg and winning 4 games in a row for the first time since 1994 was/is impressive.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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Congrats for opening the new thread  I will play along tho I vote keep Mangini and Ryan and the 3-4 and the ST coach Add a good OC and the WCO
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He needs to stay. Why blow something up that isn't broke?? All we need is a Qb, and a better offensive coordinator. Plus a few players on defense. We're not that far away.
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Quote:
Congrats for opening the new thread
I will play along tho
I vote keep Mangini and Ryan and the 3-4 and the ST coach
Add a good OC and the WCO
1) Somebody has to do it and traditionally after 9 pages a new thread is opened
2) I forgot about our ST Seely is it? Yeah our ST played really well so he should stay too.
I figure Zorn will be our QB coach but will he be our OC? If he is, does his play/bingo calling sidekick come too cause I think their offense got better with those 2 calling plays. Other than Zorn who would be OC candidates?
I still think Reggie McKenzie is my dark horse for the GM position.
Go Browns!!
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I'll post this here too then:
I think considering all the injuries and the fact that our QB play has been horrid that Eric Mangini did a very good job in coaching these guys during this 4 game winning streak. With a good QB we may have won 4-5 more games this season. Granted I believe that Mangini drop the ball on the QB competition and he should have utilized Harrison more earlier in the season. Then again in all fairness the QB competition makes much more sense after seeing them both play bad all season.
In the end we have to look at it this way: We got rid of some talented players (Edwards and Winslow) and lost more to injury this season but still finished with a better record than last year. That in itself is surprising. Considering that I would say Mangini deserves at least one more year with these guys. He said after the first few games that it was a process and it requires patience. He proved true on that and did it by winning the last 4 games of the season. What more can you ask for considering the team he took over?
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No  If the schedule was mixed up better, we'd still be 5-11with 3 wins courtesy of Cribbs That's like starting 1-3, then from there win 1 - lose 2..that's bad winning or losing streaks are overrated anyway...look at the games one by one...DEN started off 6-0..so what? They'll end up 9-7 but will most probably miss the POs
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
1) We get a new QB (95%)
We're in no rush to get a new QB. We just won four games in a row with inconsistent QB play. Quinn had big numbers in some of those losses, which could have been wins had the defense stepped it up sooner.
Our goals will be to fill the immediate holes we have, then work on patching the ones that will become holes.
More or less, our biggest priority will be to implement a system, and the system starts with the personnel and coaching. In order:
A. choose an identity on both offense, and defense.
B. evaluate our coaching (and personnel) to decide if we can run said systems.
C. If we choose systems that simply don't match our skill, we pick a system based on the skills that we do have, then repeat step B.
It all starts with Mike Holmgren's vision, though. He may implement a certain system regardless of our personnel, then build from there.
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We need a QB and some WR improvement before we need a new coach.
I believe Mangini deserves another chance, I think it would be counter-productive to just blow it all up. He seems to have the backing of his players now (and yeah, there's some "covering my own backside" with that), the team has more discipline than any RAC-coached team.
They're tougher, the D especially had shown growth, gelling as a unit: new personnel in 2009, & a new DC as well,
TAKES TIME, a factor that has been overlooked here too often. We need some upgrades on D this coming off-season, but we knew that already.
I also don't believe Mangini's the ogre he's been made out to be.
All that said, I'd understand if Holmgren brought in his own people.
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For me this is how I view Mangini:
The Good
Beating Pittsburgh
Winning the final 4 games in row including 2 against teams with playoff chances
Claiming Matt Roth
Finding Matt Moore
Instilling disciple
Effectively making us one of the least penalized teams
Defense started to look better at the end of season (weather helped)
Trading two problem children in Winslow and Edwards
Trading out of the top 5
The Bad
QB situation was a mess....again
Kokinis situation
That other front office person who was fired...I forget her name
Team looked pathetic in the first 5-6 games
Defense still ranked dead last at beginning of game today
Still up for debate
Whether we were adequately compensated for trading Winslow and Edwards
Right now the way I see it is that Mangini did both good and bad things. He did enough good things to earn another year but he also screwed up enough not to earn another year. Unfortunately I think Mangini and Holmgren have completely different backgrounds and the only way Holmgren keeps Mangini around is to wait on Gruden.
Go Browns!!
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It could very well come down to Mangini just not wanting to be a part of this new venture.
He'd certainly get some satisfaction as he exited and left fan loyalty split yet again.
Of course that's gonna happen regardless the terms he leaves on. Holmgren will have either fired him or ran him off.
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Quote:
Right now the way I see it is that Mangini did both good and bad things. He did enough good things to earn another year but he also screwed up enough not to earn another year. Unfortunately I think Mangini and Holmgren have completely different backgrounds and the only way Holmgren keeps Mangini around is to wait on Gruden.
There it is, game, set, match.
This entire football operation belonged to Mangini. His schemes. His personnel. His coaches. His GM. His FO people. His EVERYTHING.
Lerner took a crap on his "everything" and brought in Holmgren to the tune of $50 million.
You people do the math................
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I've been a Mangini hater from day 1 but I have to admit the penalties are down, the tackling is better and the team is playing hard for him. My main beef with him was his poor draft and overall ridiculously bad offseason decisions with the roster. Although he has made some good moves during the season (Roth,Jennings and Benard). I thought the Edwards trade was bad at first but now it looks like a great move (I can admit when I'm wrong) Trusnik has been a pleasant surprise and Stuckey played ok at the end of the year, he probably ended up in the same neighborhood receptions wise as Edwards since the trade. With that being said I still hope and think Mangini will get fired but I wont be too upset if he is retained. 
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Holmgren said he wouldn't coach next year...while making it sound that he is indeed interested in doing it again.
If this is true, then why blow it up now, install new staff and then blow out yet another HC if he does want to coach?. Its interesting because it seems at first to defy logic that he keeps a guy he didn't hire in a scheme that isn'this. But then it defies it just as much to blow it up if he is going to want to coach again in 2011.
I say EM and staff stays (less one offensive coordinator) with Holmgren "suggesting" who that OC will be. Holmgren, a GM and EM draft and its EM's show for one more season. If EM blows it, then Holmgren coaches in 2011 with his offense already in place.
It might be more of a case of Manginni's accepting the ego check,the new structure and relationship than Holmgren just kicking him out the door.
I would really like to see this defense scheme with some talent on it.
Just my $0.02
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Quote:
The Bad
QB situation was a mess....again
Kokinis situation
That other front office person who was fired...I forget her name
Team looked pathetic in the first 5-6 games
Defense still ranked dead last at beginning of game today
again the Qb situation??? do you really think Quinn would have done better if he started from the begining? It is a matter of opinion but I don't.
Kok_ I am still not sold on the whole situation there
The girl who got fired- who cares no one even remembers her name
team did look bad at first but, I will give them time to gel just like I would any other specific unit
Def- I realize they were close to last but I like the scheme, give them some players and see what happens. Or we could go with the Dave Campo bend but don't break 
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I say keep him.
He came here thinking he had a QB. He did not realize until halfway thru the season he had none. He used all his picks and FA in other areas. Probably thinking one of the 2 QBs would take the starting spot.
That was his main mistake and an understandable one.
So I say give him another year.
Joe Thomas #73
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The "QB situation" is more than about which guy started. Remember, he didn't give either guy enough reps to start the year, then he had that entire BS plan of keeping it under wraps when we all knew it wouldn't work............and it didn't.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
The "QB situation" is more than about which guy started. Remember, he didn't give either guy enough reps to start the year, then he had that entire BS plan of keeping it under wraps when we all knew it wouldn't work............and it didn't.
I thought that funny then and even more so now!
Like either guy being sprung on the Vikings would have made them shiver with fear!
I'd ask about that for sure were I Holmgren.
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Quote:
Congrats for opening the new thread
I will play along tho
I vote keep Mangini and Ryan and the 3-4 and the ST coach
Add a good OC and the WCO
Completely agree 100% This team is a couple of puzzle pieces away from being very successful.
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IF he is "waiting" on Gruden, what are we waiting for ? Buy out his ESPN contract and get him in here (he, no doubt, has a walkout clause anyway and can be had). If not, or Holmgren is looking at something/someone else, then Mangini stays and the Browns are 10-6 next year, playoff bound. Fire him then ?? 
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Posted by Mike Florio on January 3, 2010 5:32 PM ET
The good news is that, unlikely a year ago, Eric Mangini won't be fired the day after the regular season ends.
The bad news is that it could happen on Tuesday.
Jay Glazer of FOX reports that the first-year Browns coach will meet with first-week Browns president Mike Holmgren on Tuesday. If Mangini is unable to sway Holmgren, Mangini will be relieved of his duties.
If that's what happens, it'll be the first time a guy has been fired as an NFL head coach in consecutive years since 1998-99, when Ray Rhodes was fired by the Eagles and then dumped by the Packers.
At this point, Mangini's only hope might be to fire his agent and hire Bob LaMonte.
The season ends on Sunday, and on Tuesday you're calling the HC in to have a meeting? That quickly?
I think that's the end of Mangini.....................
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
IF he is "waiting" on Gruden, what are we waiting for ? Buy out his ESPN contract and get him in here (he, no doubt, has a walkout clause anyway and can be had).
If not, or Holmgren is looking at something/someone else, then Mangini stays and the Browns are 10-6 next year, playoff bound.
Fire him then ??
Because ESPN probably doesn't want to lose him, which would explain why his contract so strongly locked him into place.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Bah... you really think giving Quinn or Anderson reps from TC would have mattered?? I am no QB scouter but c'mon admit it. ADMIT IT. 
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You almost have to believe that the Kokenis and front office debacle goes much deeper than we know else Lerner may have not made the Holmgren move or would have moved to find a comatible soul for Mangini to work with.
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Quote:
Bah...
you really think giving Quinn or Anderson reps from TC would have mattered?? I am no QB scouter but c'mon admit it.
ADMIT IT.
Heheeh...........It's not about whether it would have helped. It's about whether or not it was the right thing to do.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I am soo sick of hearing about this qb situation.If either one of those two were worth a danm,the reps would not have been split equally.They both got a fair shot,and they both blew it.
I know,it's Mangini's fault that they both suck.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
I am soo sick of hearing about this qb situation.If either one of those two were worth a danm,the reps would not have been split equally.They both got a fair shot,and they both blew it.
I know,it's Mangini's fault that they both suck.
Not only is it Mangini's fault they both suck, it's also his fault that Koko couldn't cut it as a GM.
It sounds like all the anti-Mangini guys are going to get their wish ... hope you guys like Marty Mornig .. .whatever the hell his name is ... I for one am ecstatic about that possible hire ...
This franchise is and continues to be a joke ...
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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my point exactly, evidentaly RAC sucked also, so that is 2 NFL regimes against Dawgtalk.net C'mon everyone say it with me DA and BQ both suck. (cheap keep Mangini blurb)
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You gotta be fair, Rish.
Koko was Mangini's hand-picked guy. Whose fault is it if the guy you chose to do a job failed?
The only excuse is that Mangini lied to him by saying he'd have final say over decisions, but the problem there is that ...........well...........that's still Mangini *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
I am soo sick of hearing about this qb situation.If either one of those two were worth a danm,the reps would not have been split equally.They both got a fair shot,and they both blew it.
I know,it's Mangini's fault that they both suck.
Not only is it Mangini's fault they both suck, it's also his fault that Koko couldn't cut it as a GM.
It sounds like all the anti-Mangini guys are going to get their wish ... hope you guys like Marty Mornig .. .whatever the hell his name is ... I for one am ecstatic about that possible hire ...
This franchise is and continues to be a joke ...
I love Marty Morninhweg, personally. Paring him with a DC like Ryan would make him a great coach. He could have a Harbaugh/McDaniels like success here.
you had a good run Hank.
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we won 4 games in a row.. we need to get stronger at other spots FIRST before we invest HIGH on a QB.
Once the other spots get stronger, we can just insert "NAME HERE", and they will have a much better chance of succeeding.
I'm down with Quinn for 10'. haaha.. new motto.
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Quote:
Quote:
IF he is "waiting" on Gruden, what are we waiting for ? Buy out his ESPN contract and get him in here (he, no doubt, has a walkout clause anyway and can be had).
If not, or Holmgren is looking at something/someone else, then Mangini stays and the Browns are 10-6 next year, playoff bound.
Fire him then ??
Because ESPN probably doesn't want to lose him, which would explain why his contract so strongly locked him into place.
Then they either paid him more than any coach in the NFL, or, he doesn't want to coach anymore ? I think if Gruden was asked by Holmgren, he'd have his bags packed. (But I don't KNOW that,....  )
And, if I'm ESPN, I want the best coaches out there on the sidelines, not in the booth. I don't watch ESPN, or football, "because" Gruden is in the booth,...I watch it whoever is up there.
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They are FAR more interested in who is in their booth, as opposed to 1 of 32 head coaches, coaches who people don't tune it to watch. They tune it to watch the players.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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we won 4 games in a row.. we need to get stronger at other spots FIRST before we invest HIGH on a QB.
Once the other spots get stronger, we can just insert "NAME HERE", and they will have a much better chance of succeeding.
I'm down with Quinn for 10'. haaha.. new motto.
I am in favor of a vet, fill in QB. I am not in favor of either of our QB's.
Before anyone asks, starting Anderson or Quinn will significantly hinder the progress of any position players. Get someone who can, at the very least, run a respectable offense.
you had a good run Hank.
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Although I like him doing games Gruden isn't the be all end all brodcaster by any means. Jaworski can make nearly anyone look good....I did say nearly.
I don't buy for one second some iron clad contract stuff. If you doubt other stuff ESPN reports why would anyone buy into that steaming pile so quickly?
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As I do too,...I'm just saying they have a co-existing interest in having a better product on the field. The NFL doesn't need ESPN, but the converse is not true. Gruden is worth more to the overall picture of both as a coach,..just my opinion. And if he does have a walkout clause, he'll move whenever he wants. ESPN is lucky he's a decent broadcaster (and so is he,... ).
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I may be in the minority here I love Chuckie in the booth ( I think he does a good job) but I am not sold on him as a coach, I don't have any facts to back this up, just call it a gut feeling. 
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That's a fair shot,...did win a Super Bowl though,...I'm just thinking of who else is out there that might want to take this on under Holmgren,...I'm not sure he's "gone." And if he isn't, what happens when he wins the Super Bowl next year ?
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I may be in the minority here I love Chuckie in the booth ( I think he does a good job) but I am not sold on him as a coach, I don't have any facts to back this up, just call it a gut feeling.
I'll jump on this bandwagon myself.
I really want nothing to do with Gruden as our HC, he's fine doing what he's doing and has added a bit of animated oratory to the booth for MNF. Which is probably why ESPN locked him up contractually. He's added entertainment to the booth without the bad comedy and horrible speaking voice of Kornheiser.
#GMSTRONG
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He's probably realized it's a helluva lot less headaches too,....
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini Won 4 in a Row..Now what?
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