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No one twisted his arm to sign the contract he has now. It's what those same agents of his negotiated. If he has a complaint, he should focus it at them for getting him into this mess.
Actually he fired the agent that negotiated his current deal for him. That deal has him making less than what any veteran free agent off the street would make on a veteran minimum contract.
Cribbs still signed it. Now, to steal a golfing metaphor, he wants a mulligan. That's fine we all feel he deserves it but this is not the way to go about getting it.
#GMSTRONG
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This on NFL.COM Last straw? Cribbs intends to walk out on Browns after low offer
NFL.com Wire Reports
Josh Cribbs believes it's "unlikely" that he will play another game for the Cleveland Browns. Insulted by the Browns' latest contract offer, Cribbs intends to clean out his locker, and one of his agents said the Pro Bowler will demand a trade.
"I'm hurt because I don't want to play for nobody else," Cribbs said Wednesday night. "But the way they're talking, they're leaving me no choice."
Cribbs was the Browns' most valuable player this season. He played wide receiver and quarterback, and he also returned and covered kickoffs and punts. He even set the NFL career record for most kickoff returns for touchdowns.
But agent Peter Schaffer said Wednesday that the Browns failed to live up to previous promises they made to Cribbs and offered him $1.4 million annually for six years, well below market value. Schaffer said there's "no more middle ground" and he's "extremely shocked" that new team president Mike Holmgren wouldn't understand Cribbs' value to the Browns.
"We're going to formally put in a request for a trade," J.R. Rickert, Cribbs' other agent, told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora. "He will not set foot in that facility again. If they had offered even something like $2.5 million per season, we could have worked with them, but to me, this offer is indefensible."
Rickert said Browns vice president of football administration Dawn Aponte, who handles contract negotiations, told him the offer was final and that Holmgren was in agreement with her.
"Dawn said this was it, this was their offer," Rickert said. "She said it would be 1.4 today, 1.4 in March and 1.4 in August."
Cribbs said last month that the team had promised to give him a new contract by the end of the season. Even in the days leading up to the Browns' season finale against the Jacksonville Jaguars last Sunday, Cribbs remained optimistic that something would get done.
Not anymore.
"I did all the playing I'm going to play on this contract," Cribbs said. "I ain't doing nothing. I'm not showing my face until it's right."
Rickert said he asked the team if it needed or wanted more time to consider things, especially with Holmgren just coming on the job, and that he told Aponte if she didn't change the offer or request more time to negotiate by 5 p.m.
Wednesday, he would take the unusual tactic of making the offer public.
"I didn't feel like we had any other choice than to let the Browns fans know exactly what was going on," Rickert said, "and let them know why Josh was preparing to leave."
Said Schaffer: "I'm extremely shocked. I have tremendous respect for Mike Holmgren. I know he knows how to put a team together. I was optimistic that with him coming aboard that he would understand and that Josh would be rewarded. To see there is no change in their position is insulting."
Holmgren said Tuesday that he had contact with Cribbs' representatives when he was at home in Arizona. Holmgren intimated that he planned to take care of Cribbs but only after fair negotiations.
"I believe players should be rewarded for what they do," Holmgren said. "I have no problems with that at all. What happens, though, on occasion is our view of how much that should be and the agent's view of how much that should be differs. We have made an effort.
"We will continue to make an effort to handle Josh's situation. I want Josh here."
This is interesting . . .
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Legend
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Question: does anyone have the concrete numbers that Josh's side proposed or feels is fair? Everyone seems to say Hester numbers, or this number, or that number, but no one knows what Cribbs's side is saying.
I mean, what if they said something to the Browns like "$50 million a year"? (total exaggeration, I know, but I'm trying to make a point). So, the Browns come back with something equally ridiculous: $1.4 million/year.
I know that I've been involved in many negotiations in my line of work and I've used that tactic before. The claim is obviously worth something like $10,000. We know we're going to start lower than that. The other side initiates at something like $250,000. So, we counter with $150. That shows the other side how ridiculous they're being.
I'll reserve judgment on this until we get the final word. Too often we jump up and down screaming about how one side or the other is being so unfair, but we have no idea what the whole story is.
But I'll say that Josh deserves more money. I also think his agent is being just plain ridiculous with this. It endears him to no one and the fans will see through this pretty easily.
I mean, for God's sake, Holmgren has been on board, what, a couple days? And what the hell is the hurry, Josh? You got a gambling debt that needs paid now? It's a long offseason.
And with the labor talks ongoing, who knows how things will shape up.
I saw that Josh alluded a couple days ago to the fact that he's glad they didn't redo the contract at the beginning of the year because he played so well this year, he's worth more. I agree with that.
So did he expect to come in to Holmgren and say "Hi Sir, I deserve x amount, pay it or I'm walking?" C'mon. That's just bad business.
Contact the guy and say "when you're settled, we need to talk."
That's how I'd approach it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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You may be a great football player. As I said, you deserve the money. But if you want to talk about insulting, Josh. Just look in the mirror and think how you're sounding to your fans.
I continue to be amazed by how fans want to compare they're own lives to an NFL players life. Do the reverse and say to yourself what would you do if you were in his shoes?
It comes down to being paid fairly for what you do. And if any of you think that he can not get a better contract from anyone else then you need to check out how many teams would give up big bucks for a talent like Josh.
I really hate how fans want to bash any pro athlete about how much money they make because it comes down to supply and demand and if any of us were in the same position we would get what we could while we can! 
And if you say you wouldn't I say that you do not tell the truth! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I think he has had enough of this, and wants out of Cleveland. Too bad he is the only Big Play superstar on the team. Hope he doesn't get traded to a team we have to play. Maybe this is so the Fans might not point the Finger at Cribbs when he is a no show for 2010 preseason games. He will just say" I tried, and tried and tried, but they lied and lied and lied. Good Luck Cribbs...hope you get to the HOF, sorry it looks like it will not be with the Browns. 
Go Browns !!!!
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I agree with Toad that this is negotiating by Cribbs' agent. But purely hypothetical, what if this cat and mouse game goes on long enough that it is irreconcilable differences between the Browns and Cribbs.
What is Cribbs' trade value?
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Legend
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I agree with Toad that this is negotiating by Cribbs' agent. But purely hypothetical, what if this cat and mouse game goes on long enough that it is irreconcilable differences between the Browns and Cribbs.
What is Cribbs' trade value?
I'll play devil's advocate and say that it would be actually low.
If teams truly feel that he's going to sit out, they have to think we're not going to just let him sit out and get nothing for him. They'll come to us and say "hey, we'll throw you this year's third for him." The Browns either let a guy eat a roster spot and get nothing out of him or they take the pick.
Once again, devil's advocate.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Honestly, if I were Cribbs and that were the first offer ... I would vow to never play another down for the Browns...wouldn't even wait for a second offer. He shouldn't have to play any games here. This has gone way past the stage of these negotiating games ... way past. This is ridiculous. He might take a hit initially, but eventually the team will see him as an asset that isn't playing and trade him to the highest bidder, and he'll get his money.
I would never play another down for the Browns. I hope he doesn't for his sake. I hope he does for the fans' sake.
What a cluster. This team is so incompetent. Can't even manage to make it's best employees happy. What a freaking dysfunctional organization.
The latest CBA allows for $14,000 fine per day if he decides to hold out once training camp starts. That'd be $420,000 per 30 days. The season is about 5 months long (give or take) including camp - that adds up to about 2.1 million for the season. For a guy with a 6 year, 6.7ish million dollar contract, he won't last long.
As Toad earlier said, its called negotiations. Browns go low, Cribbs agent goes high, and they eventually meet somewhere in the middle.
Remember we're only hearing 1 side of the story, and likely only part of it. I'd be surprised if the offer including bonuses and incentives was only 1.4 million per year considering he's about 1.1 now if I recall (though it is about a 30% raise  ). The 1.4 was likely just base salary, with incentives and bonuses also. If the 1.4 was including all incentives and bonuses, he has a right to be ticked...but he doesn't have the luxury to hold out long...
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Guys remember Brandon Marshall said last year that he hated Denver and wanted out, Briggs in Chicago said same thing, so did Ochocinco, so did Roddy White, Sheldon Brown, the list goes on and on.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Quote:
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I agree with Toad that this is negotiating by Cribbs' agent. But purely hypothetical, what if this cat and mouse game goes on long enough that it is irreconcilable differences between the Browns and Cribbs.
What is Cribbs' trade value?
I'll play devil's advocate and say that it would be actually low.
If teams truly feel that he's going to sit out, they have to think we're not going to just let him sit out and get nothing for him. They'll come to us and say "hey, we'll throw you this year's third for him." The Browns either let a guy eat a roster spot and get nothing out of him or they take the pick.
Once again, devil's advocate.
If he doesn't get a contract he will sit, is my bet. someone else pointed out in the comments under the NFL story, that Emmitt Smith sat out till he got paid, after the superbowl. After the 2nd game they lost, Dallas gave in and paid him.
I hope we keep Cribbs, but he might not want to be here.
Go Browns !!!!
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Just a horrible, horrible move by Cribbs's agents. First of all, the Browns really aren't in a great position to dump a bunch of money on Cribbs. I'm guessing these last couple years haven't been the most profitable for the Browns franchise due to the on-field product. We're paying Crennel, Savage, and Kokinis not to work. Holmgren just got, in effect, $50million+ guaranteed. We'll bring in a GM soon, more money there. We may or may not also be paying Mangini not to work soon (and would have to pay another guy on top of that as well). A lot of big contracts were dolled out during the Savage era. We have 11 draft picks that we're going to have to pay and free agents as well, most notably that #7 pick that might be something like 5 years/$40 million.
There are other, integral players on this team that are simply more pressing-- guys like Harrison, Vickers, and DQ who are either going to be restricted free agents or UFA depending on the status of the CBA negotiations. Speaking of those, the entire landscape on player conpensation may turn out differently in a couple years so it doesn't make much sense to dish out huge contracts right now. When all else fails, look at what the Patriots are doing and it is exactly that.
"Taking care of" a guy with 3 years left on his contract just isn't very important. I agree that he is worth a lot more than his contract is paying him. I think his best hope was that the Browns would throw him a bone in good faith when the opportunity presented itself (certainly not before a GM was even hired!)
By taking the situation public and especially in the nasty manner in which it was done just simply kills all hope of that happening anytime soon. When was the last time a non-quarterback forced his way into a new contract by being a PITA, boycotting off-season activities, or holding out? It never happens. It sets a horrible precedent for the team to give in to those types of tactics. The only time I can ever remember it working was with Marc Bulger a few years ago, holding out of training camp and receiving a new contract. You can draw some parallels with the Jay Cutler situation as well. Quarterbacks are different though.
He tried this approach last year and it didn't work. It's going to come back and bite him again.
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I think Cribbs' agents are being quite selfish and trying to milk Cribbs for whatever they can.
Mangini made those promises to him, sure. But the problem is, Mangini at the point had power over player personnel. Then, at the end of the year he lost it to Holmgren. So, Mangini did not lie. He just did not know that he would no longer be in charge of player personnel.
Secondly, Cribbs' agents are ready to request a trade after Mangini has been on the job for just a few days.
Third, teams always start low and players agents always start high in contract negotiations. That is normal. What happens is through negotiations the two meet somewhere in the middle. These agents obviously aren't good negotiators since they want to cut and run from the get go.
Fourth, Cribbs is currently under contract. He signed this deal. So, for him and his agents to expect the "BIG MONEY" now is quite ridiculous. Sure, he should get a raise. Something that isn't the top but close to it. I'd say maybe 2.5 - 3 million a year for the remainder of his contract. Then, once/if he lives up to that contract then maybe add more. Right now the only person really being insulting is Cribbs' agents.
First, for refusing to live out the existing contract. Second, for walking out of contract extension talks. Then, finally, for deciding to use the media to try and undermine the team.
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My guess is the $1.4 million number comes from the total value of the deal including bonuses, incentives, etc, divided by the number of years the deal was for.
The initial article mentioned Roscoe Parrish. Kinda odd-sounding name, one that sticks in your head, so I thought I'd do a bit of research...
In December of 2007, he signed a three-year contract extension worth a total of $12.31 million, with around $7 million in signing bonuses as well as base salaries of around $1 million per year. [url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_contracts.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=BUF"]link[/url]
This season, Parrish was ranked 52nd in total kickoff return yardage, 50th, in average yards per kickoff return, 29th in total punt return yards, and 57th in average yards per punt return. He had 34 yards receiving (he is listed on the roster as a WR).
In 2007 (the year in which he received his extension), Parrish ranked 71st in total kickoff return yards, 78th in average kickoff return yards, third in total punt return yards, and fifth in average punt return yards. He ranked 116th in receiving yards, with 352 yards on 35 catches. He had three rushing attempts for 19 yards total. Parrish has never had a kickoff return for a touchdown, and has three TDs on punt returns in his career.
By comparison, this season Josh Cribbs ranked in those return categories as such: second in total kickoff yards, 11th in average yards per kickoff (eight of the ten ahead of him have 16 attempts or less; three have just one attempt), second in total punt return yards, eighth in average yards per punt return (three of the seven ahead of him have 3 or less attempts). Josh was the 52nd ranked rusher in the league this year in terms of total yardage (as an aside, he only had 8 fewer yards rushing than Willie Parker this season, on 43 less carries), and his 6.9 yards per carry was sixth highest of all players with at least 10 rushing attempts and the highest in the league of all players with at least 20 attempts. He had 135 yards receiving.
Just a comparison of two players whose primary roles on their teams are as kickoff and punt returner, and play minor roles in their respective teams' offensive gameplans. In the interest of full disclosure, Roscoe Parrish is the Bills primary punt returner but is not their primary kick off returner.
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Just a horrible, horrible move by Cribbs's agents. First of all, the Browns really aren't in a great position to dump a bunch of money on Cribbs. I'm guessing these last couple years haven't been the most profitable for the Browns franchise due to the on-field product. We're paying Crennel, Savage, and Kokinis not to work. Holmgren just got, in effect, $50million+ guaranteed. We'll bring in a GM soon, more money there. We may or may not also be paying Mangini not to work soon (and would have to pay another guy on top of that as well).
None of those numbers have any bearing on what the players make. There is a salary cap and a salary floor that the player payroll has to remain between.
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When was the last time a non-quarterback forced his way into a new contract by being a PITA, boycotting off-season activities, or holding out? It never happens. It sets a horrible precedent for the team to give in to those types of tactics.
Everyone's favorite comparison piece when talk of Cribbs' deal comes up: Deven Hester. Hester was a failed DB who they wanted to try at WR because he was setting the league on fire with his punt return abilities. He said he was going to hold out, and actually did for a couple of days in the offseason, and they gave him a top-15 WR contract.
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The agent sounds like some spaz kid. He is using the Veruca Salt approach to negotiating and it looks silly ("Daddy, I want a Pony... Now!"). Seriously, Everyone but these two guys can see the at this moment in time, A big change is going on. I think Cribbs deserves more money, but his giving the go on this reflects badly on him. It is a shoddy way of doing business, to go through the Media and to use a loyal fan base in negotiating.
I like Cribbs, would like him here and he deserves more money...but this was a bad move in my opinion. If I were him or Joe Thomas I would seriously give thought to looking into a new agent, to try and distance themselves from this image. I would go to the Browns new management and apologize and tell them you understand the situation going on right now, that it was silly to expect a guy who will be making all the calls to have to deal with this his first official day on the job, and ask if they think two weeks is sufficient time to set up a date for talks. Holmgren doesn't even have an office or a house yet for his family.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Earlier, I researched those three players.
Obviously, Hester's contract no longer equates because he's a legitimate receiver.
That left Davis and Parrish.
Both of those contracts are BADLY out of line with their production. In short, they are horrid contracts. 'Dre Davis's.............well, read them for yourselves:
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DAvis: 2/28/2008: Signed a four-year, $16 million contract. The deal includes $8 million guaranteed. 2009: $2.1 million, 2010: $2.55 million, 2011: $4.7 million, 2012: Free Agent
So what production are they getting for that money?
He signed that contract after catching 33 balls for 583 yards and averaging a whopping 30 yards per return on kickoffs.
This year? He has 6 catches and is averaging a pedestrian 23 yards per return.
Parrish's numbers are even further out of whack. Quote:
12/14/2007: Signed a three-year, $12.31 million contract extension through 2011. The deal included a $1.1 million signing bonus and another $3.25 million "signing bonus" in the second year. 2009: $1 million (+ $1.5 million "signing" bonus + $500,000 roster bonus), 2010-2011: $1.025 million (+ $500,000 roster bonuses), 2012: Free Agent
He signed that contract after catching 35 passes in 2007, and averaging a big 16 yards per return.
His production now?
3 catches, 23 yards per kickoff return, and a pathetic 5.5 yards per punt return.
There are plenty of lessons for people to learn by examing the numbers for these special teamers.
As for Cribbs, as the team gets better, he's going to be phased out of the offense. That's going to leave him as just a special-teamer, and as such, asking for $3-$5 million per season is at the very max, and may be out of line when all the factors are taken into consideration. The trends of Davis and Parrish show that players tend to be only as good as the special-teams units.
The Browns open with $1.4 million per season. He's earning about $600k per year now, with another $400k available in bonuses.
People need to remember he just got $2 million when he signed this last contract  That money was free and clear. The Parrish deal was horrible. Now that I look at it, I can't believe the Bills agreed to it. That's why there was so much talk that they'd try to trade him. 
So the Browns offered $1.4 million plus some incentives. To believe it was a "take it or leave it" deal is ridiculous. When push comes to shove, it will probably be around $2-$3 million per season plus incentives.
Frankly, the Cribbs camp should be thankful the Browns are even offering to rework the deal. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to accept the last deal he signed. I fully agree he deserves a raise. I don't see any special-teamer being worth $5 million per season when signing and other bonuses are involved.
The last two "special" special teamers have fallen flat on their faces and aren't performing to their deals. Cribbs has had a career year. It's highly improbable he'd be able to repeat it. That means he's going to go down in production, so a raise is due, but not the huge money people think he should get.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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j/c
Bush league, Josh, so bush league....
Trying to get fans to force the Browns hand is about as low as you can go as an agent/player.
I hope this blows up in his face.
you had a good run Hank.
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You may be a great football player. As I said, you deserve the money. But if you want to talk about insulting, Josh. Just look in the mirror and think how you're sounding to your fans.
I continue to be amazed by how fans want to compare they're own lives to an NFL players life. Do the reverse and say to yourself what would you do if you were in his shoes?
It comes down to being paid fairly for what you do. And if any of you think that he can not get a better contract from anyone else then you need to check out how many teams would give up big bucks for a talent like Josh.
I really hate how fans want to bash any pro athlete about how much money they make because it comes down to supply and demand and if any of us were in the same position we would get what we could while we can!
And if you say you wouldn't I say that you do not tell the truth!
Please note that I stated in the first line of my original post that I felt that Cribbs deserved a contract in the neighborhood of $20 million over 5 years with $8-10 million guaranteed. What bothers me about this situation is how Cribbs and his agents are handling the negotiations, not the money due the player. You either handle things like a pro or a jerk. JMHO
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
---Leonardo daVinci
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None of those numbers have any bearing on what the players make. There is a salary cap and a salary floor that the player payroll has to remain between.
Those numbers absolutely have a bearing. The salary cap has become much less important in the modern NFL due to the exponential increase in player wages. Simply, the salary cap is so high and there are so many ways around it that it's practically meaningless. A common maneuver goes something like this-- a player with a high base salary (which would count entirely on the current year's cap) has that converted to a signing bonus with phony years tacked on at the end (which, for cap purposes, is prorated for the life of the deal regardless of whether the player is still on the team). The salary FLOOR probably has more practical effect, with some teams struggling or not wanting to meet that because there are so many dollars chasing so few players. Actual, real money paid out is more important than the cap due to how easily the cap is managed.
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Everyone's favorite comparison piece when talk of Cribbs' deal comes up: Deven Hester. Hester was a failed DB who they wanted to try at WR because he was setting the league on fire with his punt return abilities. He said he was going to hold out, and actually did for a couple of days in the offseason, and they gave him a top-15 WR contract.
Good point, an oversight by me, but my point still stands. Especially with how egregiously overpaid Hester is. Most teams will NOT give a better contract to a player holding out, nor should they.
Last edited by hasugopher; 01/07/10 02:00 AM.
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The fact remains that having former staff still under contract on the payroll would never affect the team's ability to sign free agents or draft picks as it stands currently.
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Question: does anyone have the concrete numbers that Josh's side proposed or feels is fair?
In the article at the top of the page, one of his agents said that 2.5/year would have been a reasonable starting point. The article went on to say that Dawn Aponte discussed the issue with Mike Holmgren and told Cribbs' agent that the offer is 1.4 million now, and it will be the same next month and the month after.
I hope this gets resolved within the week. - Give him a fair contract or trade him to somebody who wants him, or give him his release. I'd like to have a distraction free offseason for a change. - Last year it was all about Shaun Rogers being mad at Mangini for not introducing himself, and Donte Stallworth, and Braylon talking about how he's not appreciated.
Just one good offseason please.
Last edited by RememberMuni; 01/07/10 02:40 AM.
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The fact remains that having former staff still under contract on the payroll would never affect the team's ability to sign free agents or draft picks as it stands currently.
Right, because the obligation to the former staff really isn't all that significant. By recollection I think we still owe Savage and Crennel $6million each and Kokinis about $5million, depending on how that situation turns out. You're taking that small part of my post completely out of context.
The Browns have more pressing needs than taking care of Cribbs. We need to lock up Vickers, Harrison, D'Qwell, and others. Josh has 3 years left on his deal and I agree that he is underpaid but it just doesn't make much football sense to give him a big money deal, all factors considered.
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I'm not taking anything out of context. What I'm saying is that the funds for paying players and coaches come from two different places that don't, at this point, mix with each other.
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Send the agent out to arrange a trade for a draft pick. Then use that as a salary benchmark. I love Cribbs as a player but but I don't have a lot of sympathy for his plight. He signed a contract. Will David Veikune be sending his signing bonus back to Randy Lerner? Will Couch, Edwards, Warren, Brown,Green be writing checks payable to the Browns? If they tear up his contract what about everybody else that plays well.Do we have contracts for players that suck and guys that actually perform? What if a guy sucks but he doesn't suck as bad as a higher paid player on another team, should he get a raise? Perhaps the Browns could draft a clause that says the player intends to excel or stink out CBS for X compensation.  Maybe Cribbs won't get what he deserves in crazy money pro sport world, cry me a river. Is it unfair ? Yep, the world ain't fair.This isn't the injustice of the century. No mention of signing bonus but worst case senerio he makes 1.4 million a year. In my world thats tall cotton. Dawn should look his agent in the eye and say,do you feel lucky punk? Go ahead and make my day. 
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Josh tweeted that the Browns didn't have him on his to-do list. They put through some negotiations, so obviously that is bull. Holmgren was on the job for about 24 hours and they are already "done?" Give me a break, there's plenty of time for a new deal. There's a LOT of stuff that needs to be taken care of this week. Important stuff. Not that Josh isn't important to us, but a new contract isn't a priority when it doesn't need to be done by March at the very earliest. What does need done is figuring out who our GM is, if Mangini is being retained, and if not, line up candidates. And if he is, which assistants are staying? Then there's the draft, scouts, free agents to look at, player assessments, guys who AREN'T under contract come March who we need to sign. I'm all for Josh getting his, but GMAFB. Our new President just had a full day on the job, and the next day they are upset about a new deal not getting done. 
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Legend
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Quote:
I hope this blows up in his face.
I'm still a fan of Josh's, so I'm hoping for something a little different (and hopefully, a little more temperate) than a total "blow up facial"...
I'm hoping that Josh wakes up a morning or two from now, re-reads his tweets, the Browns message board(s) comments, and the mediamess that's now out there publicly... and realizes that his agents talked him into a negotiating strategy that is both unwise and counterproductive. I further hope that he reigns in this poorly-conceived campaign, puts a choke collar on his rabid agent(s), and sits down at the table with an adult, common-sense mentality for the next step in negotiations. At present, it looks something like this, to me:
"Hi, Boss. Welcome to Berea. Nice flight into Hopkins? Good. Here's the way to your new office. Pay me, or I'm walking.... NOW."
Not the smartest way to make a first impression on the guy who now controls your immediate financial and professional future, ya think?
It's undeniably true that Josh has outplayed his contract's value by any current NFL standard... but by how much? THAT is the thing to be negotiated here. Not sentiment. Not fan loyalty. Not past contracts or promises made by previous Cleveland power brokers.... but his overall value to the team as an individual commodity plugged into The Whole. THAT is Josh Cribbs' reality... no matter what pep talks he's heard from his agents.
Production + potential = contract value.
To toss about terms like "insult," and "done" this early in the negotiations shows me just how amateur this campaign is. Josh should really look very closely at the caliber of folks handling his affairs. The fact that he didn't just leave all this to his handlers, but seems to be taking an active role in the execution of the stratagem makes me wonder a bit about his relative savvy in areas such as this. He is after all, still a young man... and can't be expected to exercise the day-to-day wisdom of a guy who's been in the game for (oh, let's use Mike Holmgren for a convenient example) as long as he's been on the planet.
All the more reason to surround oneself with competent, professional, level-headed representation, until you can gain the knowledge yourself. You gotta trust someone, and I'm starting to worry that young Mr. Cribbs has placed his trust in guys who simply shouldn't play at the Big Vegas Table. Wouldn't be the first time in NFL history.
I hope that Josh figures out that this approach can't possibly earn him what I think he really wants... respectability on a national scale. He's earned that in terms of what he's done on the field, but he's cheapening its impact by the way this whole affair is being handled. It's low-class, Barnum & Bailey-type stuff... and the last thing Cleveland Browns Football needs is yet another circus rolling into town. Kid's gotta shot at the record books and a spot in Canton. Does he really want this kind of stuff attached to his legacy?
I want to see some class here, on both sides of the table... and I want Josh to be compensated- fairly.
At this point, we ain't nowhwere near either. But then.... that's what negotiations are all about... right?
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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j/c
Personally I think 1.4mil is not only an insult but an insult and a slap in the face. Starting point or not, they should at least show Josh SOME respect!
As for Josh making a threat... I believe him. I think he will sit rather than play under his current contract and I don't think his agents will let him settle for anything near 1.4 freaking mil.
So you can call this bush league, spastic tactics or anything else you want but you better start thinking he's gone too.
He can't play for another team without a trade or being released... at least not in the NFL...
BUT he does have options.
He could sit and do nothing. Take the fines and make the fight ugly , like Cuttler did. Then 3-4 games into the season when we're getting are butts handed to us and starting drives from inside the 10, he could have some leverage.
He could just not perform. Show up but put zero effeort into his game... kinda like a guy who watches the clock at work more than he works.
He could get a Trade.
He could retire like Favre.
He might even just suck it up LIKE HE DID THIS YEAR and play.
BUT as a fan, can you imagine the Browns letting Josh Cribbs get away over 1-2 mill a year? I can't and if that happens, you can bet I'll be upset at the very least.
So my 2 cents for what it's worht is PAY THE MAN.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
He could sit and do nothing. Take the fines and make the fight ugly , like Cuttler did. Then 3-4 games into the season when we're getting are butts handed to us and starting drives from inside the 10, he could have some leverage.
There's the rub of the problem as it pertains to his lack of leverage.
Josh Cribbs is a special-teams player.
He is not a QB.
He is not a RB.
He is not a WR.
In short, he is not a critical position. Important because he's the best at what he does? Yes. Irreplaceable? Not even close.
If Cribbs sits and we've lost four in a row, are we supposed to believe that throwing up the white flag and giving in to a special-teamer is going to suddenly make us a winner? That isn't reality because Cribbs isn't the fix.
Bottom line: Cribbs isn't as important as many think he is. He certainly isn't as important as he and his agents believe him to be.
We'd be a worse team without him, but he has ZERO leverage here. He has THREE years left on a deal he signed. He ISN'T a vital position on this team. He's EASILY replacable. If he sits, he'll be fined until he gets nothing. He can't force a trade. He can only harm his pocketbook and his legacy.
It's pure bad luck that he's been on a team that has changed regimes twice in the last two years. He was close to new deals with each before they were removed from power. Is that fair? That's LIFE. Life isn't fair. When it takes a rough turn, you suck it up and do the best you can. Crying at the start of the season was NOT in his best interests. Crying NOW is not in his best interests.
After thinking about this tonight while watching the very entertaining GMAC bowl, I came to the realization that Holmgren's regime is sending a CLEAR message to Cribbs' agents: You aren't as important as you think you are, and you will NOT dictate to the Cleveland Browns. In short: Know your role, sit down, and shut up. We'll get to you on OUR time, not when YOU see fit.
And I applaud them for it.
Clem made the right comment: No one man is bigger than the organization. If Brett Favre wasn't bigger than the Packers, Joshua Cribbs most certainly is not bigger than the Cleveland Browns.
Playing his cards right gets him the money he wants. Playing them wrong earns him nothing but ridicule, which is what he and his agents are getting two hand-fulls of right now.
You can bet your ass all the players read these boards. This is how they feel the pulse of the fans. They know what the media is. Their agents have told them what that's all about. When they want to know how people feel, they read boards like this across the NFL.
So...........Josh...........YOU control your agents, not the other way around. Be a man and call off the dogs. It's bad luck that you've tried to get a new deal from deposed regimes. So what? Suck it up and stay patient. If you treat the Browns right, which is most certainly NOT what your agents are doing now, they'll return the favor.
Think about it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Practice Squad
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2-3 million sounds about right. Any more than 3 is just crazy.
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2nd String
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2nd String
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6 Years - 17 Million would be a very good contract for Cribbs. About 5-7 Million Guaranteed.
But I agree, anything more then a 3 Mill per year average is too much.
Cribbs is only hurting himself with the way his agents are handling his contract. He can't hold out, he just can't support himself by holding out an entire season.
He'd crack right out of Training Camp on his current salary.
He's still got 3 Years left on his Deal, so that is some Trade Value, but that gives Cribbs no leverage at all to demand a new deal.
But, this is just the beginning of negotiations, and each side is letting each other have their offers. However, Cribbs' agents need to stay out of the press.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
NRTU
But when he hears guys like Deion Sanders say " pay the man" how would you feel! 
!
that's easy for big -mouthed Sanders to say,it's not his money he is referring to now is it?
If Sanders felt that strongly about it he should open up HIS wallet.
I despise Sanders BTW 
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Has everyone forgot that this agent is NEW to the Cribbs camp and he wasn't involved in his 06 contract, therefore he hasn't really been paid yet? I understand he needs paid but this guys cry baby attitude it disgusting. As mentioned above I wish they would have waited a little bit before throwing this around. Cribbs is a classy dude that let's his actions on the field speak and that's what makes him an attractive player, to me at least. Just give it a couple of weeks while MH sorts out this Manpoleon thing.
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Legend
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I think some of you are missing the point with Cribbs. I think if roles were reversed, you all would be fine with your agent doing the same for you.
Cribbs deal SHOULD have been done last year. He SHOULD of held out LAST year, but he did not. He wanted his play to speak for him instead. IT DID!!
PAY THE MAN!!! He's EASILY worth 3 mil. a year. EASILY!!!
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/cle/rosterRoster Quarterbacks No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 3 Anderson, Derek QB 6-6 230 26 5 Oregon State $8,000,000 5 Ratliff, Brett QB 6-4 224 24 1 Utah $301,000 Running Backs No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 29 Brown, Thomas RB 5-8 200 23 1 Georgia $403,500 35 Harrison, Jerome RB/KR/PR 5-9 205 26 4 Washington State $449,920 34 Jennings, Chris RB 5-10 218 24 R Arizona N/A 47 Vickers, Lawrence FB 6-0 250 26 4 Colorado $447,520 Wide Receivers/Tight Ends No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 85 Allen, Jake WR 6-4 196 24 1 Mississippi College N/A 44 Collins, Jed TE 6-1 255 23 1 Washington State N/A 16 Cribbs, Joshua WR/KR/PR 6-1 215 26 5 Kent State $645,000 83 Estandia, Greg TE 6-8 265 27 3 UNLV $376,240 87 Furrey, Mike WR 6-0 195 32 7 Northern Iowa $1,806,240 86 Gaines, Michael TE 6-4 277 29 6 UCF $3,805,280 11 Massaquoi, Mohamed WR 6-2 207 23 R Georgia N/A 89 Moore, Evan TE 6-6 247 25 2 Stanford N/A 80 Robiskie, Brian WR 6-3 209 22 R Ohio State N/A 84 Royal, Robert TE 6-4 257 31 8 LSU $1,827,160 88 Stuckey, Chansi WR 6-0 196 26 3 Clemson $311,725 Offensive Line No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 79 Capizzi, Jason T 6-9 315 24 3 Indiana (PA) N/A 66 Fraley, Hank C 6-3 310 32 10 Robert Morris $1,650,000 70 Hadnot, Rex RG 6-2 320 27 6 Houston $3,950,000 74 Kooistra, Scott T 6-6 335 29 7 North Carolina State $1,215,000 55 Mack, Alex C 6-4 311 24 R California N/A 75 Murray, Pat G 6-3 310 25 1 Truman State N/A 78 St. Clair, John RT 6-6 320 32 10 Virginia $1,375,000 65 Steinbach, Eric LG 6-6 295 29 7 Iowa $7,600,000 73 Thomas, Joe LT 6-6 312 25 3 Wisconsin $8,800,000 77 Womack, Floyd RG 6-4 328 31 9 Mississippi State $772,400 68 Yates, Billy LG 6-2 305 29 6 Texas A&M $1,186,720 Defensive Line No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 62 Adams, Titus NT 6-4 305 26 1 Nebraska N/A 90 Coleman, Kenyon DLE 6-5 295 30 8 UCLA $2,157,353 96 Grennan, Keith DE 6-4 298 25 2 Eastern Washington N/A 61 Lewis, Jonathan DT 6-1 312 25 2 Virginia Tech $370,000 67 Robinson, Derreck DLE 6-4 295 27 4 Iowa N/A 71 Rubin, Ahtyba NT 6-2 330 23 2 Iowa State $387,465 91 Schaefering, Brian NT 6-5 280 26 1 Illinois N/A 98 Smith, Robaire DRE 6-4 310 32 10 Michigan State $2,000,000 99 Williams, Corey DRE 6-4 320 29 6 Arkansas State $8,700,000 Linebackers No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 58 Benard, Marcus LOLB 6-2 256 24 R Jackson State N/A 96 Bowens, David LILB 6-3 265 32 11 Western Illinois $2,000,000 59 Brown, Titus ROLB 6-3 250 23 1 Mississippi State N/A 51 Hall, Alex ROLB 6-5 250 24 2 St. Augustine $341,865 56 Maiava, Kaluka RILB 6-0 229 22 R USC N/A 53 Roth, Matt ROLB 6-4 275 27 5 Iowa $605,000 93 Trusnik, Jason RILB 6-4 250 25 3 Ohio Northern $376,240 95 Wimbley, Kamerion LOLB 6-3 255 26 4 Florida State $1,345,000 Secondary No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 20 Adams, Mike FS 5-11 200 28 6 Delaware $608,600 26 Elam, Abram SS 6-0 207 28 4 Kent State $450,880 25 Francies, Coye RCB 6-0 185 23 R San Jose State N/A 30 Lawson, Gerard LCB/PR/KR 5-10 195 24 2 Oregon State $300,000 22 McDonald, Brandon RCB 5-10 195 24 3 Memphis $375,640 23 Poteat, Hank FS 5-10 195 32 8 Pittsburgh $730,000 33 Richardson, Matterral CB 6-0 197 24 1 Arkansas N/A 38 Robinson, Ramzee LCB 5-10 186 25 3 Alabama $376,720 41 Ventrone, Ray FS/MISC 5-10 200 27 4 Villanova $376,000 24 Wright, Eric LCB 5-10 190 24 3 UNLV $853,240 Special Teams No Player Pos Ht Wt Age Exp College 2009 Salary 54 Costanzo, Blake MISC/LILB 6-2 235 25 3 Lafayette $370,000 4 Dawson, Phil K 5-11 200 34 11 Texas $1,252,400 2 Hodges, Reggie P/H 6-0 220 25 3 Ball State $370,000 64 Pontbriand, Ryan LS 6-2 255 30 7 Rice $4,755,000 27 Sorensen, Nick MISC/SS 6-3 210 31 9 Virginia Tech $1,009,320
Last edited by Kingcob; 01/07/10 08:11 AM.
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Toad,, sorry man, but I think you aren't completely correct in your assessment. To this team, as it sits, Cribbs is EXTEMELY important.. he's the one constant that has a history of proving his worth over and over again.. All the denial in the world won't change that. It is what it is... BUT.. NO Special Teamer should be that. Because of the overall lack of talent on the team as it is today, he's become larger than life.. Sort of the big fish in a pond kinda thing.. You put a Josh Cribbs on a Philly or NO or Indy and suddenly, he would find himself surrounded by lots of talent and would not have to be the only "go to' guy. Also, making him worth less in pure dollars. He'd still be exciting, he'd still get some great yardage. But think about it, we've been repeatedly scored on..., over and over again, thus increasing his number of attempts, so sooner or later, a talented guy like him is going to break all kinda records.. Having said all that, both sides are blowing it here.. 1.4 million is indeed an insult.. and the way his agents are handling it is an insult to the fans.. And for cryin out loud Josh,, get some real agents that know how to handle things and write a proper letter.. One other thing I gotta get off my chest.. how many of you have read letters from lawyers? I bet we all have at some point.. I've never read a more poorly written letter from a lawyer in my life.. If the writer of that letter is really a lawyer, he got his degree from one of those matchbook cover law schools... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Empty threats from a position of little power.
I might agree with you under normal circumstances, but this isn't.
In a neutral town like mine, I hear comments all the time how Cribbs is a beast.
Sure, we can just say play or sit...so yes, we do hold the cards, except the cards of public opinion. And when those are your only cards, those are the cards you play. Cribbs and his agents are doing exactly what they need to do.
If we want to continue to look like this bumbling, mismanaged franchise, then we need to keep playing the cards just as we have.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Good grief! C'mon Josh... Really. Muzzle your agents before you lose any more of what little leverage you have. You KNOW there are a ton of changes happening in Berea right now. Surely you realize that Mangini may not be around much longer and that promises HE made to you are meaningless with a new sheriff in town. Holmgren has been in the building only two days. He hasn't even had the chance to get his staff in place just yet. Did you really think he was going to renegotiate your contract without having a GM in place?? Get real. Now, if what his agents are saying is true, the Browns' mistake was to reply with any kind of figure at all (ballpark or not). They should have told Cribbs' camp that his contract is on the "Big To-Do" list and that we'll talk when the dust has settled in Berea. I don't think anybody disagrees that Cribbs deserves more money. Up until now, I think Josh has handled his situation like a champ. Everyone was behind him. However, he can only lose support (publically and behind the scenes) by publically posturing in this fashion. Now, if it was getting close to OTA time and there was still no serious negotiation, THEN I could see trying to light a fire under Berea's arse. We're not even close to that just yet. Stupid move by Josh AND his representatives.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Legend
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Quote:
Having said all that, both sides are blowing it here.. 1.4 million is indeed an insult.. and the way his agents are handling it is an insult to the fans..
Insulting to the fans? I'm perfectly fine with what has taken place. I'm not insulted. Speak for yourself. The man EARNED his money unlike a lot of other high dollar NFL players. If anything, for me, it shows that this organization will always be a step behind and a tier-2 team with decisions like this.
I don't know who this Dawn person is, but she's an arse. He is by far one of the best players we have on this team, and should be so.
Can you imagine what Winslow's agent, or Braylon's agent would have done if they came with this offer to them? You can't, and that is why they were traded. They would have went public THEMSELVES and brushed this organization off and laugh at them in there face. (Again.. See trade)
PAY CRIBBS!! PAY CRIBBS!!!
Some of you forget what happened last year when RAC and Savage were terminated.. The "new" coach and gm wanted to wait and see what he had for themselves, and cast their own opinion of Cribbs and see his worth. Well if Gini is fired, the same will happen again!! Its bound to happen. Another reason why Cribbs' agent wants to get this done now.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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Quote:
Insulting to the fans? I'm perfectly fine with what has taken place. I'm not insulted. Speak for yourself.
If you don't find Cribbs team using the fans as leverage that's ok with me. I find it insulting.. But maybe your right, it might just be me.. dunno.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Chances are they'll agree on something in between, probably favoring the organization more than Cribbs considering the circumstances. But note to Josh: $1.4 million/year is much more than the current money you're making, and since you chose the "stable" contract the first time, you'll have to play within the system, so to speak. Take what you can, but realize you can't demand the moon and the stars here.
My personal thought? Both sides should agree on $2 million/year even and have a bonus that reflects that compared to the current contract, so if he got a $2 million bonus last time, he should get a $6-8 million bonus IN ADDITION to the yearly salary.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cribbs' agent: "we're done"
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