DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Source: Mangini to return in 2010

I said if Mangini were retained by Holmgren it might signal that Holmgren has not closed the door on himself returning to coaching after next season.

I'm not saying Holmgren is returning to coaching...just that this decision to keep Mangini fits what Holmgren himself has said, that he will not coach in the 2010 season but has not ruled out returning to coaching.

With the lack of a clear statement from Holmgren indicating he is not going to return to coaching, it would have been nearly impossible to hire someone to take over for Mangini for just one season, until Holmgren can make up his mind about returning to coaching.

Until Holmgren closes the door on returning to coaching, it will remain an option that could figure into the equation of whom will be coaching the Browns in 2011...jhmo...mac

Holmgren returning to coaching here in 2011 would be horrific, IMO.
He is not here to coach, he is here to run the entire organization, and he cannot do that effectively if he is bogged down in coaching.

clwb...If Holmgren should decide he is not going to coach any longer, Gruden would definitely fit the time frame and situation to return to coaching for Holmgren and the Browns in 2011.

I'm content with Gini staying for 2010. Let's keep the wins rolling.

Now how do we get rid of Daboll?

Does someone want to start a firedaboll.com website? lmao?

I'll sign it!!

Looking back at your post, you said "wtf did we dish out Holmgren 50mil for?"

I'm just saying, apparently Holmgren sees something in him that you don't. It doesn't make him 100% right or you 100% wrong, but how about we wait and see how Mangini performs next year before we start claiming that Holmgren is a bust? Especially since Mangini improved a team in the midst of the 1st year of rebuilding.

Then again, that wouldn't fit your anti Mangini agenda...

JMHO.

The only reasonable decision Holgrem could have made. I'm glad to see he is a reasonable man.
NOW>>> Let' get on to Hiring Steve Mariucci and reworking Cribbs contract.

Mangini, you silver tongued devil. I don't know what you said or how you said it, but congrats, it worked!

I think we should start referring to you as Ricky Roma.

(I'm sure someone will get that)

J/C

It is funny that the same posters who say......

1. We dont have a Qb.
2. We dont have a legit threat at Rb.
3. We have only #2 or worse receivers (no #1 guy)
4. Our right side of the OL BLOWS!!!!!

They are the same ones that says fire Daboll!

If at the least some of these are true......who could succeed?

Maybe that is exactly what MH sees!!!!

I agree. After all ... no less than Marty Schottenheimer stated that "playcalling is overrated". Players make plays succeed. Plays rarely make players succeed.

Anyway .... back on the main topic .....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12756...owns-turnaround

Hooray for Mike Holmgren and the Cleveland Browns.

The team's new president got it right when he told Eric Mangini he wanted him back as head coach. Mangini earned the opportunity to prove he's the right man for this job, and Holmgren has given it to him.


I don't care if the two aren't a perfect fit, as some people contend. I don't care if Holmgren was hired with the understanding that he had to keep Mangini at least one season, as one GM told me two weeks ago. What I do care about is that a head coach who deserves to stay will and that continuity is given a chance.

Go ahead and snicker. A lot of people did when Mangini -- at midseason -- promised to get results, saying that all he needed was time to get his message through. So he had eight games, and the Browns went 4-4 -- winning their last four, the franchise's longest winning streak since 1994.

His critics yawned and said, "Big deal," complaining that Cleveland didn't beat anyone of consequence. I'm sorry, but a win is a win is a win, and the Browns produced more victories the second half of the season than the defending Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers.

I mention Pittsburgh because Mangini's defeat of the Steelers marked the first time Cleveland prevailed since 2003, and if you don't think that was significant you weren't listening to Steelers' linebacker LaMarr Woodley. When he complained about others not wanting the Steelers in the playoffs he missed the point. If Pittsburgh had just beaten Cleveland -- heck, if it had beaten Kansas City or Oakland -- it would have been there.

So, yeah, beating Pittsburgh was a big deal.

Of course, nobody beat Cleveland the last month, and that's a testament to Mangini, his confidence in what he was doing and his message. This was the guy's first season in Cleveland, and, just as he predicted, there was so much work to be done (translation: garbage to be taken out) it might require a year or two to produce results.

As it turns out it took the last four games.

Now Eric Mangini is working on a five-game tear, and good for him, the Browns and Mike Holmgren. It made no sense to ignore what happened down the stretch and start all over, guaranteeing another year of disruption, losing and angry fans. The Browns showed us something the last month that hadn't been seen in Cleveland for a couple of seasons, and that was a pulse.

When they finished by beating Jacksonville in the season finale, players didn't beat a retreat to the locker room. They doused Mangini with Gatorade, the surest signal that they appreciated what he had done for and with them.

It was a marked departure from the middle of the season when Mangini absorbed body blows from writers, broadcasters and even a few of his own players. Throughout he maintained his poise, referring critics to what happened when he was with Bill Belichick in his first season with the New England Patriots and imploring them not to give up on him or the team.

Those Patriots finished with the same record (5-11) as Cleveland this season, and they did it after finishing 8-8 the year before. Yet they kept Belichick on the job, and I think you know what happened.

That's not to say it happens here. It's to say it could. But Mangini first had to be given a chance to stay. Holmgren just delivered, and it's proof that maybe, just maybe, he can become as good an executive as he was a head coach.

Holmgren knows how difficult it can be to turn around a program in one season and he knows the value of continuity. Look at the Philadelphia Eagles. They were 5-11 in Andy Reid's first season. The next year they were in the playoffs, and they've been to the conference championship game five of the past eight seasons.

The Eagles didn't think about canning Reid after one season, just as New England didn't contemplate jettisoning Belichick, because they know what Holmgren knows: Winning doesn't happen overnight, especially when you inherit a bottom feeder.

Mangini did the improbable when he took the 2006 New York Jets to the playoffs after a 4-12 finish the year before. He produced two winning years in three seasons with the Jets, as well as one playoff appearance, but it wasn't good enough for Gang Green because he lost down the stretch last season. So he was canned. He won down the stretch this year, and he will return.

He should.

"He came in here and turned things around," said Josh Cribbs, the Browns' best player.

That's good enough for me. It was good enough for Mike Holmgren, too, and hallelujah. Patience and common sense prevailed.

Was this the only writer who liked him? Heck, I don't think I read a positive story on the guy anywhere the whole season!

It'll be interesting to hear the "supposed experts" give their takes on the move.

j/k

I am surprised, and was wrong as well. This would also mean that we aren't running the WCO here it would seem.

As long as Mangini doesn't have control over the roster I honestly do not see a problem giving him another year.............I just don't want him having much say in personnel issues, and I doubt that he will.

It may not be called a WCO but I bet we changes things a LOT on that side of the ball..

Now Toad... we better start laying some ground rules on what EXACTLY is a WCO in your eyes so we can properly analyze your prediction and promise

YES!!!



Meanwhile Lombardi and all you other Bozo's with your...Holmgren and Mangini don't have the same agent!
Heckert is coming so Mangini is gone!
Holmgren and Mangini have different philosophy so no Way Mangini Stays...

Yeah, yeah, yeah...proof the Bozo's know DIDDLY!!!

I'm so happy...great news. Best of all Worlds.

Continuity...good program...Great Football Intelligent president...Heckert probably on the way no GM learning on the fly!

Finally a HC who can HC and won't be given EMPEROR Room.
Finally a GM who can GM and won't be given EMPEROR Room.
Fianlly a Football Man who can be the Emperor without crushing others...Lead from Respect.

And probably one of the smartest QB evaluators to boot! The one thing we need most to have this franchise take off!!!

Man I'm so giddy...later
Go Bama...just like them better should be a good game will be looking at some studs of course...wonder how Accurate McCoy can be against the Bama D???

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I take it as there may be other coaches available at that time that have been linked to Cleveland/Holmgren already - Gruden and Fox mainly...

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I gotta ask this,, WHY FOX.. he has no connection to Holmgren other than they share an agent..

I think keeping Mangini is directly related, not to his coaching ability or the last 4 games but to the games that won't be played in 2011.

Most people that report on football for a living are convinced that there is a high likelihood that there will be a lockout in 2011. The owners have a strike fund in excess of $1 billion. That's billion with a "B".

So why not keep Mangini and take a chance that he might be able to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse? If he doesn't, you dump him while the team doesn't play in 2011and you're not really out anything. Probably hire Gruden or another Holmgren disciple for 2012.

If he does then you're set for when the players are let back in to play.

I still think he's a crappy coach but I can see the logic. Guess we'll see......

Most people that report on football for a living were convinced Mangini was toast too.

"So why not keep Mangini and take a chance that he might be able to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse? If he doesn't, you dump him while the team doesn't play in 2011and you're not really out anything. Probably hire Gruden or another Holmgren disciple for 2012."

I said that a while ago...and yes if Mangini doesn't give a good showing next season...which probably must include a Playoff birth - I see Gruden as the guy maybe down the road in that scenario.

Actually it was said that Fox would not get fired cause of that (of course the same bozo's said he'll be hired here cause of the same agent as MH )

Cable too...rumor had it Al Davis was seeing if Mangini would be fired and would have hired him in a NANO Second??? Rumors???

But yes after the finish we had - surely if we were 2-12 or 1-15...Mangini was gone, no question.

And the fact probably Gruden being MH's #1 hand pick HC with him being locked up...it made more sense not to just hire anyone.

I was surprised it did state entire staff...but after some thought the O still might be tweaked whether Daboll will be living with MH or possibly gone...I'm sure we will see a MH touch in there somewhere...especially in QB evaluation and transition.

JMHO

As were most people around the country and on this board. Because they're wrong once doesn't mean they're always wrong.

I can easily see the owners locking out the players in 2011. Don't kid yourself. It's a very real possibility.

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Wow, I was equally prepared for either scenario, but all the talking heads had me convinced he'd be gone

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So many base their opinions on just that,...at least you admit it.

I just held on to my faith that MH would make the right decision. At least we can put this behind us and build on what was established this season. We are in the best shape moving foreward right now than we've been going back even before 1995. I'm excited as hell and KNOW we will not come out next year and lay an egg. We still have talent issues (especially QB) but at least I know we'll be getting the absolute best in what we have. MH hit his first home run as a Brown,.....NOW,..make Cribbs happy and let's see what he can do with our draft and FA period.

Good job Mike Keep up the good work.

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I WAS WRONG!!

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I give you props, takes a man to admit as much . . . to be fair, I thought Mangini was a goner too. . . .

Perhaps filling the GM spot is enough work for one season . . .

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I WAS WRONG!!

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Well.... you weren't the only one, my friend. I seem to recall being one of a (very) few lonely voices in the wilderness just a few short weeks ago. Not one talking head in all of TVland thought Mangini had a chance. Not one writer of rags did either. Posters explained how my thinking was flawed. I kept shaking my head in wonder... "what is t that I'm missing here? What exactly am I seeing that others are missing?" I posted words like 'herd mentality,' 'lynchmob'... and until the end of the season, with the 4 game win streak, folk just wasn't tryin' to hear it, yo.

I just took a nostalgic li'l trip back through my recent posts, and found on more than one occasion a sentence or two about a Holmgren/Mangini marriage not being so far-fetched. It certainly bucked the "conventional wisdom" of the day, but that's okay... The Prophet is always ignored in his own lifetime. (hehehe)

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#644457 - Tue Dec 29 2009 01:57 AM I don't know if Mangini will be here next year or not. All I hope is that Holmgren gives this decision a lot of critical thought. Unless he comes in and finds rampant dysfunction in the way things are being run, working with a co-operative Mangini and intact coaching staff might be the best thing for him AND the organization in the transition year. I mean really- if Mangini, Ryan, Daboll all buy into his view, why start from less than the scratch you already have? https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post644457

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#644834 - Wed Dec 30 2009 02:45 AM I guess what I'm really saying is this: Holmgren seems to be a serious, thoughtful man. That in itself is reason enough to consider the possibility that Mangini might be here next year... for reasons that we fans haven't seen and can't possibly know. For us fans, it's all speculation (until it's official).
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post644834

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#645374 - Thu Dec 31 2009 02:37 PM Look, Dawg... you can read anything into these circumstances you like, but the objective truth is that nobody knows for sure what Holmgren will do. He may surprise you...

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Rather than gloat, use the word "beyotches," or pop my own jersey, I'll take a more subtle approach:

Clemmie won't dance and shout and gloat
'Cause gloatin' just ain't my style...
Instead, I'll just watch all the haytaz 'dance'....
...With a smug, self-satisfied smile.


just a gentle nudge in the ribs, is all....

[/tongue in cheek]












[Edited to remove links to another messageboard]

j/k

Have not read through all the posts, but I am completely on board with this. I would have never imagined saying it 1-2 months ago, but I think it makes sense for several reasons:

(1) Team played hard, the "process" was starting to take shape
(2) Mangini is a pretty good coach, just not coach/GM/President/Czar all at once
(3) Looming lockout
(4) Team discipline is 10x better (penalties, selfishness, etc)
(5) Actual "team" (don't understate this)

What Holmgren/GM need to help with:
(1) Daboll - The offense was a lot better the last 6 weeks of the year...was that Mangini taking the leash off Daboll, Daboll learning, luck, all of the above? I think hiring an experienced "offensive assistant" or some other term could be beneficial
(2) QB - Is it coaching, playcalling or is Quinn really that inaccurate or maybe a better thing is hot/cold? Could having the same offense two years in a row help? Can Holmgren or others help him in the offseason to grow into a serviceable QB?
(3) Draft - needs to hit on first four picks and go 50/50 the rest of the way. Need one pro-bowl and 3-4 future starters

I could not see a way in hell how Mangini would be here another season so I was wrong.

Still, I am OK with this decision.

Now that Mangini's sitting in the catbirds seat he gets a clean slate with me and we'll see what he can do next year.

GO BROWNS!

I am extremely happy with Mike Holmgrens first decision...People can say whatever they want about Mangini, but for the first time since 99 I feel we have a real football coach. He is a guy that can front any storm and keep his eyes on the ball. He has a plan and an idea and a direction and he has not detered from that path. Adding Holmgren and a genuine GM will just take us up a few notches and allow him to focus completely on the task at hand.

I also don't think he has gotten the credit he deserves on his drafts. It looks like he missed on Golston, but he got Revis, Mangold, Ferguson, Mack, ...Those are all hits...Mack was almost dominant towards the end of the year. Even the rest of his draft doesn't look bad at this point. He made huge pickups in Roth, Jennings looks good. Bowens...should have been starting from day 1, Bernard, Evan Moore.

He got rid of some headaches. I don't think he is all that bad at talent evaluating, and you would have to think guys appreciate that he doesn't cater to anyone and everyone has an opportunity. I am just glad we have some stability and a plan and good quality football people in all positions. JMHO

Just curious who you would want to coach here next year and what your expectations were this past season?