|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Kinda like reading letter that wasn't addressed to you. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Except that reading a letter not addressed to you is a gross invasion of privacy, while this is just a public forum. But I'm not one to quibble. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
Those are some crazy good reasons. Well done!
Do we really need to go over old ground again?
Face it.....you're hot for the guy and I'm not. By this time next year one of us will know that the other one was right.
So until then it's really a moot point. Except, of course, I'll be right...... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
That right there is the misunderstanding. I'm not hot for the guy, but I do want to see what he can do with another year.
You've got your mind made up, and you don't like it that people don't 100% agree with you.
Big difference.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Actually, you're the one that keeps coming back to this. I've tried to drop it several times. Mangini has his job, for now, and we move on. As far as me not liking it that people don't agree with me 100%......where the heck does that come from? The fact that I don't agree with you? As I said before, a year from now one us of will be right and one of us will be wrong. Frankly, it's a win/win for me. If you're right it means we'll have a winning team. If I'm right then....well....I'm right and we'll move on to a better coach.
Last edited by crazyotto55; 01/09/10 07:53 PM.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
Quote:
cal...if the Browns continue winning, fine...BUT...Mangini was 1-5 against teams in the AFC North.
If that doesn't improve, Mangini could be in trouble.
But Mangini is the last coach to beat the Steelers in the last dozen tries!
But Tim Couch is the last QB to beat the Steelers!
Now you see the futility and narrow-minded view of such statements....................
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But Tim Couch is the last QB to beat the Steelers!
Now you see the futility and narrow-minded view of such statements...
You're on a run. Wrong again. The last QB to beat the Steelers would be Quinn. And if you think Mangini's win over PukePit is insignificant, you've gone and lost your freaking mind. 
Actually, I wasn't, because that goes back to comments Mac made over the last several years talking about how Couch was a viable QB "because he was the only QB to beat Pitt."
Pointing out the inconsistencies in his comments. Ya dig?
toad...What the hell does my comment to cal have to do with Couch?
The point is, defeating the bottom feeders such as the Bills, Raiders and Chiefs is meaningless if the Browns go 1-5 against teams in our own division.
Toad...now you tell me what the hell this has to do with Tim friggin Couch? 
You looking to start some crap...just say the word...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,099
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,099 |
(response to your post #649755)
Well... I guess this shows us all what kind of treatment Mangini will receive for the forseeable future.
From Day One, they engaged in an obvious campaign of negativity and vitriol against this man. They had their minds made up about him before he even got into his office, and made no attempts at objectivity at all. Once he got here, they wasted no time in setting the fans against him. The bus ride, the mural, the supposed 'snub' against Rogers... and it never stopped. (For what it's worth, I read all this junk and thought to myself, "Why should we care about this stuff? Isn't there something more important to write about?")
Later, they sat back with satisfied smiles as the fans took up the crusade. During all the losing, they resorted to half-truth, innuendo, and slanted speculation as to Mangini's motivation and tactics. They hated the trades of K2 and BE, pointed fingers at all the new players from the Jets, and questioned EM's fitness to lead. They ginned up the fanbase after the 'opportunity sessions' injuries, and tried spinning the results of the NFLPA investigation.
At their worst, they've been openly hostile toward him. At their best, they've done little more than "damn him with faint praise."
From this media, I wouldn't expect a fair shake until:
the Browns make it to the playoffs
Mangini is fired and coaching well somewhere else.
They failed in their attempt to influence Randy Lerner through fan outrage, and now they're stuck with egg on their faces, as Holmgren makes up his own mind without their help.
Well... just because they've been trumped by a Prez who wasn't swayed by them, don't expect them to turn around immediately regarding the HC.. I predict they will tone it down only a little, while continuing to act like jilted lovers... and all the while waiting (with hair triggers) for the first opportunity to rev the hate back up. If things go poorly, they say "I told you so." If things go well, they'll credit Holmgren, the GM and the waterboy, while saying the Browns succeeded despite Mangini.
The've pissed me off all year, and this series of op-eds did NOTHING to take them out of my crosshairs.
Deplorable "journalism."
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
NRTU...
Real question: How much hand did Mangini have in the JETS last few drafts? Revis, Keller, Ferguson, Mangold ... 3 Pro Bowlers, one possibly on their way.
I didn't think the JETS had a chance today.
Sanchez is going to be a nice QB. I guess Mangini did screw that one up.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
NRTU...
Real question: How much hand did Mangini have in the JETS last few drafts? Revis, Keller, Ferguson, Mangold ... 3 Pro Bowlers, one possibly on their way.
I didn't think the JETS had a chance today.
Sanchez is going to be a nice QB. I guess Mangini did screw that one up.
He just didn't think at the time, we needed one. I'm glad we got Mack,...look at how the Jets ran the ball,...4 FIRST ROUND OLinemen,....we now have two. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Clem...it's going to be a brand new season and for sure, Mangini is going to feel the heat if the team does not win. Mangini was headed out the door until the team started winning and then and only then did some of the media let up and say he deserved another year.
You can expect Holmgren to take some heat too, if the team does not win...expectation will be high.
Me, I'm just hoping the Browns can go 3-3 within the AFC North and break even in the rest of the games. A .500 season would be what I feel, would be showing acceptable progress.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Agree,...I posted that same outlook a week ago. Would be a major improvement.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
He just didn't think at the time, we needed one.
Then he was just about the only one. Honestly, I don't fault him so much for trading out of # 5 to let them have Sanchez as I do for what (who) he passed on to get Mack. If he really thought we needed a Center that bad (and he was just about the only one that did) he could have gotten a good one later on in the Draft.
I also think Thomas, Steinbach and Mack were all 1st rounders although I could be wrong about Steinbach.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Steinbach was a second round pick - albeit the first pick in the 2nd round.
I'm not sure I subscribe to the theory that we could have gotten a center worth anything later. However, I do think we could have had a better combination of picks that could have had more bang for the buck ... Django has outlined several scenarios that would have been much better for us.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Well said Clem… I would add that the clueless press while being totally wrong about Mangini staying has now set out too say that Holmgren is only keeping the seat warm for himself or for someone else next season when JG or JF become available. Of course the counter to that is “IF” that where even remotely true then we hired the wrong guy to be our Czar. From this point forward MH and EM are in this thing totally together. I expect MH to do all he can to help EM and I expect that EM will do all he can to make this team into a winner. MH believes in EM or he shouldn’t have kept him period. Any other POV is total BS.  BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
I just thought that I'd add this here ... as it fits within the general theme of the thread .... http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2010/01/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_10.htmlJust a part of the article ..... Mangini sees himself as a defensive coach, who can call upon Holmgren for advice on the offense. Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll has been talking to Holmgren already. While the assumption is that there will be no major changes to the coaching staff, as various people are fired or become available, the Browns are open to adjusting the staff. My take from this ..... I find it interesting that Holmgren will almost be a senior coaching advisor in addition to being Team Prsident. It seems like he's already forming a relationship with Mangini and Daboll. I am definitely beginning to like the team attitude and tone of the new Holmgren administration.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Deplorable "journalism."
Been saying that for sometime now.. glad that others are speaking out about how the press in this town works.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212 |
The one surprise for me is that Daboll has not been replaced. Talking to Holmgren is a step in the right direction because he needs all the help he can get. Maybe with a few more weapons he can come up with something, but his play calling was a real head scratcher at times.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Talented players make for great plays. Great playcalling cannot do much to elevate poor talent beyond a very modest level.
Rookie WRs, no TE, an iffy QB (no matter which guy was out there), and uncertainty at RB make for a long day calling plays. Frankly, I thought that Daboll did a much better job once we actually found something that actually worked ...... The trick was finding something, anything, this team could do well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
The one surprise for me is that Daboll has not been replaced. Talking to Holmgren is a step in the right direction because he needs all the help he can get. Maybe with a few more weapons he can come up with something, but his play calling was a real head scratcher at times.....
A lot of us sucked in our jobs when we first started, a willingness to learn and grow is what you want to see in any employee, no matter how much experience they have.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 269
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 269 |
Quote:
I find it interesting that Holmgren will almost be a senior coaching advisor in addition to being Team Prsident. It seems like he's already forming a relationship with Mangini and Daboll. I am definitely beginning to like the team attitude and tone of the new Holmgren administration.
I agree, and frankly, this is what I hoped he'd do. I would like him to personally oversee the QB situation since he's clearly the most qualified person in management to judge what we have and where we need to go. I would be disappointed if he just sat in his office and didn't lend his considerable knowledge.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 |
Quote:
Django has outlined several scenarios that would have been much better for us.
I or any other yahoo could take every other NFL team and come up with a draft scenario that would look and seem better than what they did. 
What is so great about that? 
Are you a Django jangler?
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
i think you have to cut mangini some slack over not selecting sanchez... he walks into a team with anderson as the player favorite... he's got an untested rookie 1st round pick in quinn, that all the girls love...  and holes in tons of roster spots...taking a qb would have been stupid as all heck...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 913
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 913 |
Mangini will be back next year.... UUUGGGHHHH!!! NOOOOO!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
I don't think that taking a franchise quarterback is ever a bad decision. Not in the NFL.
Ever.
My opinion is that you do whatever it takes (once you have a line to protect him of course).
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
Quote:
I don't think that taking a franchise quarterback is ever a bad decision. Not in the NFL.
Ever.
My opinion is that you do whatever it takes (once you have a line to protect him of course).
Which we didn't. Think back to 2008 and our QBs were getting blasted up the middle. Sometimes people have a short memory. That is why we started i think 4 or 5 QBs by the end last year. So yeah I'd say not taking Sanchez and drafting Mack to protect the middle and getting a starting FS & DE plus Backup QB was a good pick.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
P.M. Cleveland Browns links: Keeping Eric Mangini surprised many, even in the organization
By Starting Blocks
January 10, 2010, 8:52PM
The decision by new Cleveland Browns team president Mike Holmgren to retain coach Eric Mangini and his staff surprised many observers.
In fact, writes Les Levine for the News Herald and Lorain Morning Journal, the way he saw it, it surprised almost all observers.
Levine writes:
From the time Mike Holmgren signed on with the Browns, in a totally unscientific survey, I questioned just about everybody I saw in the press box during the final win over Jacksonville, and in the media room in Berea during Coach Eric Mangini's last two news conferences.
If anybody I talked to tells you they saw Mangini's return coming, they wouldn't be telling the truth.
According to one member of the Browns' organization, many of his fellow workers were also surprised by Holmgren's decision.
Those questioned had a variety of scenarios, but none of them included retaining Mangini, and, at least for now, most members of his staff.
Everything seemed to point toward Holmgren giving Mangini a token meeting before delivering the bad news. Mangini never worked with "The Big Show" before.
Check it: Plain Dealer Browns coverage includes beat writer Tony Grossi's rankings of the Browns players, from No. 1 to 49; his NFL Insider; his "Hey, Tony;" a Bud Shaw column; Shaw's "Sunday Sports Spin;" and "Terry Pluto's Talkin.' "
Report card: Mike McLain of the Warren Tribune Chronicle graded every aspect of the Browns' performance in the 2009 season, and looked ahead, too.
For instance, McLain comments:
LINEBACKERS (C): This was the strangest group on the roster. How is that the run defense improved after inside starters D'Qwell Jackson and Eric Barton suffered season-ending injuries? David Bowens, who's best suited for the outside, moved inside and stepped up his game. Jason Trusnik, acquired in the trade that sent Edwards to the Jets, also played well. Kamerion Wimbley showed signs of being the pass-rush force he was in his rookie season of 2006. He had 6.5 of the defense's 40 sacks. Matt Roth added spark to the pass rush after being claimed off waivers midway through the season. Why the Miami Dolphins let him go is a mystery.
UP NEXT: The Browns were 28th in the NFL in allowing 144.6 rushing yards a game. Someone capable of stuffing the run has to be added on the inside.
Goings on: Many issues and stories remain regarding the Browns, and the Akron Beacon Journal's Patrick McManamon addresses a few, including:
• For the second year in a row, the Browns have ''hired'' the coach before the GM.
This season's a little different set of circumstances, because there is a football guy as president, but the coach now has been hired and the GM has not.
This does not seem to happen a lot in other cities.
• The thuds heard in NFL offices nationwide were jaws dropping when Holmgren's decision broke.
Most simply assumed that Holmgren would bring in his own guy, start fresh. But he didn't.
Said one league insider: ''There's nobody more surprised than the Browns' assistant coaches.''
Which kind of sums things up.
Agrees: The Wooster Daily Record's Aaron Dorksen believes Mike Holmgren was right to keep Mangini as coach. Dorksen writes:
It was anyone's guess what new Browns president Mike Holmgren would do, but I think he made the right decision this week to bring Mangini back.
Mangini appears to be stubborn -- to a fault sometimes -- and didn't juggle the quarterback situation well, but he never seemed to get flustered even when the season was at its lowest valleys.
When many were already penciling in Jon Gruden as the new head coach, Mangini still kept his composure.
That kind of self-confidence and belief in oneself is a great quality for a leader. And if a man with Holmgren's credentials believes in Mangini, Cleveland fans should, too.
Figure it out: For the News Herald and Lorain Morning Journal, Jeff Schudel writes about some of the player personnel decisions ahead for Browns' bosses, including:
Jerome Harrison, a free agent on March 4 unless the Browns sign him to an extension before then, got hot at the right time with three straight 100-yard games.
Holmgren has to find another running back despite Harrison's success at the end of the season because Harrison can't carry the ball 30 times a game 16 games a year. No back could, let alone a 205-pounder.
But Harrison's surge could mean the next running back could complement Harrison rather than the other way around.
web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
i won't argue that, but it was possible that we had our franchise qb on the roster in quinn....nobody knew...
also would had other holes....and one qb coming off a probowl year....and another 1st rounder...
quinn needed a chance....and the other point is obvious....nobody knew how sanchez was going to turn out....sanchez on our team, might have been labeled a bust
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
LINEBACKERS (C): This was the strangest group on the roster. How is that the run defense improved after inside starters D'Qwell Jackson and Eric Barton suffered season-ending injuries? David Bowens, who's best suited for the outside, moved inside and stepped up his game. Jason Trusnik, acquired in the trade that sent Edwards to the Jets, also played well. Kamerion Wimbley showed signs of being the pass-rush force he was in his rookie season of 2006.
Instead of saying "Evaluation"..I'll say "Mis-evaluation "..
There's what gets me..there's just too many things of that nature..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
.. " That kind of self-confidence and belief in oneself is a great quality for a leader. And if a man with Holmgren's credentials believes in Mangini, Cleveland fans should, too.. " I find those type of statements to SO FALSE ! ! ... The hiring of MH. seems to be a move in the right direction ( for a change ).. But I would remind the writer that this Organization has not given the Cleveland Fan Base a whole lot of on field performance over the last 10 YEARS ... The Organization ( itself ) has dug a very deep , deep hole with the fans 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
j/c from holmgren's call today: Quote:
On his talks with Mangini: "The meetings went very well. The decision I had to make, it would have been easy for me, given the responsbility I have, to come in and just kind of change everyting, particularly on the coaching level. That was on one side of the coin. The other side, I wanted to make sure I didn't make a mistake. Getting to know Eric allowed me to at least feel as though we have the guy in place already."
"As we continued to talk, two or three things were important. I think having a coach in place for one year and telling him he no longer has a job is one thing. Two, the team got better as the season went along. It was rough in the beginning, kind of tough in the middle and strong at the end. That says something. Three, I liked him. I think he was very candid, honest. He also listened. Lastly, he's a defensive coach and in this particular division you need to play really good defense when the weather gets bad. He showed the willingness to work as a team player. I think he was thrust in a position where he had to assume a lot more responsibility than was fair."
• On whether Mangini is on a one-year trial: "I was just referencing the date. He's not on a one-year trial. My expectations for the football team are at a certain level. They know that. This business can be harsh. I expect us to improve, as do they. Please don't infer I was saying this is a one-year shot. Everyone's accountable for what they do, and we'll see what happenes."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/01/cleveland_browns_president_mik.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Passan: Mangini Decision Makes No Sense
By Rich Passan
OBR Columnist
Posted Jan 8, 2010
You may agree with Rich Passan's opinions. Or you may very well not. Regardless, Rich Passan sticks to his guns, and today declares Mike Holmgren's decision to retain Mangini to be a bad move.
There must be something in the Cleveland air that does strange things to people’s minds.
What other reason can there be for Mike Holmgren planting his stamp of approval on Eric Mangini to continue as the Browns coach Thursday?
It makes very little sense.
It is at once very surprising and disappointing.
The new Browns president arrived in Cleveland with the reputation of being a clear thinker who knows exactly what he wants and has definite ideas on how to achieve success.
When the news broke that Holmgren had accepted Randy Lerner’s invitation to run the club’s entire football operation, the natural reaction was that Mangini would never survive.
Finally, the Browns’ fortunes were going to be placed in the hands of someone whose credentials screamed success. Finally, the relative torture Browns fans had suffered through was about to end.
There was no way could Holmgren and Mangini coexist. Holmgren’s football philosophies on both sides of the ball flew in the face of Mangini’s.
Mangini favors the 3-4 scheme on defense. He’s wedded to it. Holmgren, while mainly an offensive coach, employed the 4-3 in Green Bay and Seattle.
Mangini believes in stretching the field offensively. Holmgren is a West Coast guy with more of a horizontal, ball-control bent.
Mangini is from the Bill Belichick School of Football. Holmgren is from the Bill Walsh School of Football. They are polar opposites.
So how did Mangini, dangling without the aid of a safety net, manage to convince Holmgren he was the man?
We’ll never know for sure. Holmgren will let his team statement stand as his reasoning. In part, it read: “In my opinion, Eric has gained the respect and admiration of players, coaches and others in the organization and with him continuing to lead the team, I feel we are headed in the right direction. Working together, our goal is to build on the strong tradition of this franchise and help get the Browns back to the playoffs.”
Respect and admiration of the players? What players? Those ex-Jets who had followed him to Cleveland from New York and steadfastly supported him? Or the ones who claimed throughout the season-ending four-game winning streak that they were playing for themselves and for their pride because they were fed up after losing 11 of the first 12 games?
Does that mean in game 13 a switch was flipped and the Browns all of a sudden began understanding Mangini’s program? Does it really happen that quickly? Flip a switch and Shazam! A four-game winning streak. Like it’ll carry over as momentum into next season? It doesn’t work that way.
It’s amazing what a small winning streak can do for Browns fans. They are so hungry for anything positive, they’ll fall in line in sycophantic fashion tout de suite after applying their blinders. It was as though the first 12 games did not exist.
Where did the many Mangini critics after those 12 games go? They became so fickle and so mesmerized by the results of the final four games, they put on those blinders and became believers.
And to what strong tradition is Holmgren referring? He’s been around long enough to know the Browns’ strong tradition has been weakened considerably over the last generation.
He did, however, allow that he “was able to gain some tremendous insight into (Mangini’s) thought process and philosophies and came away from our meetings very impressed.”
That’s understandable. Mangini is a very smart guy. He is a very persuasive individual who has the ability to tell you what you want to hear. He fooled Lerner and has now added Holmgren to his list of victims. Give him credit. He’s a survivor.
With his retention of Mangini and most of his coaching staff (presumably including the mediocre Brian Daboll), Holmgren took the easy way out and basically said he didn’t want to start over.
Why not? That’s precisely what he did when he arrived in Seattle in 1999. Changed everything there and wound up in a Super Bowl several years later.
And that’s exactly what he’s going to do with the Browns eventually when he discovers what most fans knew after the first 12 games of Mangini’s Cleveland career. This club needs a philosophical overhaul. From top to bottom.
It seems as though Holmgren, like most of Mangini’s earlier critics who jumped back onto the bandwagon with the late-season flurry, has bought into all the winning. What, the first dozen games didn’t count?
Did the Browns play better down the stretch? Comparatively speaking, of course they did. They played so terribly in the first 12 games, the final four seemed almost like a dream sequence.
The Browns won those four games with significant contributions from players who were either on the practice squad, in Mangini’s doghouse or grabbing bench time because the coaches deemed someone better at their position during the first 75% of the season.
If Jamal Lewis hadn’t gotten injured, Jerome Harrison would never have received the opportunity to rush for 561 yards in the last three games. It was a rare case of the running back making the offensive line look better than it was.
Without Harrison, the Cleveland offense staggers to the finish line because the quarterbacking, quite frankly, was awful. Why was he tethered to the bench or inactive on game days for most of the first 12 games? Ask Mangini.
And if inside linebackers D’Qwell Jackson and Eric Barton hadn’t gone down, Jason Trusnik, Kaluka Maiava and David Bowens (who moved inside from outside linebacker) never get an opportunity and are either out of position (Bowens) or stuck on the bench.
Same with Ahtyba Rubin and Corey Williams, who played every bit as well as the injured Shaun Rogers at nose tackle. To Mangini’s credit, outside linebacker Matt Roth was a nice pickup off the waiver wire.
Instead of talking to just Mangini, maybe Holmgren should have discussed him with New York Jets General Manager Mike Tannenbaum and found out why the Jets let him go a year ago.
Or talk to former Browns GM George Kokinis and find out how and why Mangini torpedoed him.
Or call Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz to find out how it felt to be ludicrously – and embarrassingly – accused by Mangini of cheating (by faking injuries) when the two teams met this past season.
Or speak with those players who were fed up with the way things were going and decided to play for themselves and the good of the team.
Holmgren had to decide whether the four-game skein was legitimate or an aberration. Unfortunately, he chose the former. Unfortunately, he chose unwisely. This is clearly a mistake.
So Mangini now becomes a toothless tiger. He held all the cards prior to Holmgren’s arrival. He was the face of the franchise. Everything ran through him. That’s all gone now.
The only good thing out of all this is that he will coach next season with a much shorter leash than the one with which he finished. Pressure to succeed immediately will be brought to bear.
If Holmgren tugs enough on that leash – and somehow, I think Mangini will give him numerous opportunities – it wouldn’t surprise anyone if the new president places himself back onto the coaching landscape.
Now that would be a good move.
web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
The new Browns president arrived in Cleveland with the reputation of being a clear thinker who knows exactly what he wants and has definite ideas on how to achieve success.
Until he makes a decision that Passan doesn't agree with
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
I must admit that Passan expresses my opinion almost to a " T " ... I keep telling myself this is Mike H were talking about ; there has to be a reason for this ! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
From the transcript of Holmgren's conference call on 1/11
(On if the assistant coaches will be back in their current roles next season)- "That'll be Eric's call. Of course we've talked about it. He's going through that right now. My feeling is, in our initially conversations, is that he was pleased with how the guys did this year. That's not to say that if someone became available that a change might take place. All in all, I think that we're still a little bit away from that. As of right now things are pretty much as they were last year. There could be a couple changes though down the road, but not yet."
web page
I can't help but get the feeling that there is more to come from Holmgren in the way he wants the coaching staff setup.
Obviously, from Holmgren's response above, he is leaving the door open to changes or additions to Mangini's coaching staff. He tempers his comments with words like...
..."if someone became available"...just who Holmgren might have in mind here is a guess, but clearly, he has thought about additions (or changes) to Mangini's coaching staff.
I just have a very hard time believing that Holmgren would not have some better qualified coaches in mind as additions or replacements for some areas of the coaching staff, especially on the offensive side.
..."I think that we're still a little bit away from that."...just what Holmgren means by this comment?.. I'm not sure. Is "a little bit" equal to weeks, months or years?...or does Holmgren mean the assistant coaches performances has not reached a level where he would consider a change?
..."right now things are pretty much as they were last year. There could be a couple changes though down the road, but not yet." ... With Holmgren using words like "pretty much" and "down the road", I would "assume" he's talking about a time frame from one season to the next...OR...again, is does Holmgren have his eye on someone who is coaching as an assistant or OC with a team that is still playing in the playoffs?
I know, I'm really mincing Holmgren's words here. But again, I find it hard to believe that Holmgren would not have coaches in mind that are better qualified in some areas of need.
With Holmgren being brand new to Browns fans, learning his language is going to take some time. He does have a different way about how he conducts himself and speaks...different than what we are used to here in Cleveland.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Water, I gotta tell you, a few weeks ago,, early December time frame, I was right with you on Mangini.. Then the Browns started to win.. I held on to the belief that it was because we were playing inferior opponents... and I suppose that's true..
But a win is a win.. and they played tough done the stretch..
Still didn't convince me.. I was sure that Mangini was gone..
Then I listened to his presser after the last game.. I came away with a completely different opinion on Mangini...
So much so that I was secretly hoping that Holmgren was serious when he said that Mangini had a real chance of remaining..
So while I understand the criticism of this retention, I also feel that Mangini wasn't the bad guy I thought he was..
As we go along, more and more is coming out about him that makes me continue to think he did indeed deserve more time..
So I know what your saying, but I do now believe that this may turn out to be for the best all the way around..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Mac, that's a pretty fair take on it.. I read it the same way..
I agree, he's got his eyes on someone or a few someones.. should they become available, we might see changes..
And I also agree with your take that changes, if they come, will most likely take place on the Offensive side of the ball..
All in all, I am hopeful about Holmgrens moves thus far.. But honestly, I can't wait to hear the presser at 2pm this afternoon introducing the two new hires.. I wanna hear from them..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
.. " So while I understand the criticism of this retention, I also feel that Mangini wasn't the bad guy I thought he was.. As we go along, more and more is coming out about him that makes me continue to think he did indeed deserve more time.." Either I have been totally wrong about the guy or he is one slick talking willy ... Long way before the first game .. Coaching staff looked at , FA , Draft , Camps , Pre season ..... To be continued
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
(On if Heckert will have control of the 53-man roster)- "Yes, he's going to set up the 53-man roster, but I would temper that just a little bit. He and I are going to be in close communication on that. That will be his responsibility."
Not Mangini's.....they'll have to work together..no more Jets..no compliment players in the top part of the draft..impact players..no trades without the GM knowing it..that still baffles me... GM will be handling stuff like that..
My feeling is, in our initially conversations, is that he was pleased with how the guys did this year. That's not to say that if someone became available that a change might take place. All in all, I think that we're still a little bit away from that. As of right now things are pretty much as they were last there. There could be a couple changes though down the road, but not yet."
Mac has trouble reading between the lines..I don't..just because Gini was pleased with his assistants,doesn't mean MH is overwhelmed with them..fact is he has targets but he can't get them right now..so wait to see if they come free or will be let out of their duties to join another team..
As you approach the draft you, of course, you funnel down those meetings from assistant coaches, scouts and everybody down to the decision makers and I think that's what happened in Philadelphia and that's what will happen here. Tom had a lot to do with the success they had in Philadelphia in personnel.
U guys better read that carefully..no one person is going to make all the decisions..there will be a lot of minds in play...lots of minds..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
...,...but I do now believe that this may turn out to be for the best all the way around..
If for no other reason than some continuity during "The Reboot."
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Source: Mangini to return in 2010
|
|
