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anticipating the locking of the other cribbs thread. Quote:
In addition to the Dolphins, the 49ers reportedly inquired about Josh Cribbs' availability prior to October's trade deadline.
Cribbs' trade market is already red hot with nearly three months left before the trading period. In terms of compensation, 49ers beat writer Matt Maiocco says "some believe" Eric Mangini's Browns requested a second-round pick.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3469
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Okay, This is for the other posts in the other thread.  I don't think anybody will argue that JC should get a raise. BUT.... Not the way he's going about it. He's acting just like KWII. OhhOhh look at me, I am the MAN, I saved everybody, I am bigger than the TEAM! NOBODY IS BIGGER THAN THE CLEVELAND BROWNS! HE signed a contract.....TO play the BEST HE CAN for that big extenstion that PS gave him. Now that he's playing like he is getting paid to do, he wants more $$$ because he's playing like we pay him to do.  Look he's got 3 yrs to go, What if JT say's Hey I am going to my 3rd pro bowl Show me the $$$. JH, hey I just rushed for the 3rd highest yds. in the entire NFL, Show me the $$$. Mack, Hey I'm turning out to better than I thought, Let's tear up that rookie contract & SHOW ME THE $$$. See where I am going with this? The man is being paid to do what he agreed to do, for the amount he agreed on. Yes it would be nice to show him some love for the effort. I hope they do. BUT....Not this way...Not with 3 freaking yrs to go.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
anticipating the locking of the other cribbs thread.
Quote:
In addition to the Dolphins, the 49ers reportedly inquired about Josh Cribbs' availability prior to October's trade deadline.
Cribbs' trade market is already red hot with nearly three months left before the trading period. In terms of compensation, 49ers beat writer Matt Maiocco says "some believe" Eric Mangini's Browns requested a second-round pick.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3469
Hey I know they was shopping Ted Ginn Jr, I would swap straight up for him....the kid is just as fast if not faster than cribbs....I really liked Cribbs and thinks he did play his butt off but if he wants to try and hold us up for boat load of cash then I say try to send him off and get what ever you can for him....Ginn at least has shown he can play WR, and is a deadly return man
#brownsgoodkarma
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Unlike most people, I would take the 2nd rounder for Cribbs and run.
Return men are easy enough to find. Hell, the best one of all time was an UDFA College QB, all it really takes is someone hungry enough to make the team.
If you can get a 2nd rounder for you kick returner, I think you have to do it. JMHO, though.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Ginn at least has shown he can play WR,
I wouldn't go that far.
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i don't think i'm big on trading cribbs just yet. i posted the section as it appears to have some opinion on cribbs' worth outside of our opinion. that said, i don't have a problem with trading for ginn but whether we trade for ginn or keep cribbs, you can rest assured knowing we hold the keys to the car regardless of the scenario.
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I can see what you're saying about getting something for him if he's just going to sit, but that's really the only time I'd consider trading a guy who is a true playmaker for us.
I don't to trade our good players just because they could net us some good draft picks.
The only way I'd trade him was if I truly believed he was going to sit out.
I feel confident that a deal will get worked out with him since we have, what, 8 months until the season starts?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Well it would, of course, be ideal to get a contract worked out.
If he really wants to sit out and makes no attempt to work with the Browns, I trade him and take the second pick.
you had a good run Hank.
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Might be an OK swap talent wise, at least for speed, but in the end, wouldn't it cost us twice what we're going to pay Cribbs,...?
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Give him 2.5 mil guaranteed 4 year deal with incentives. That gives the Browns an extra year and him some extra $
If he wants to be paid market value then he should wait till he is a free agent like everyone else.
I would rather have him sit for 3 years during the prime of his career than get just a 2nd rounder for him. A second rounder would not compensate for him. Does he think he will get a huge deal after being out of football for 3 years?
Take this deal and then shut up.
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For, as supposedly, as hot a commodity he is, second round is not good enough.
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Quote:
NOBODY IS BIGGER THAN THE CLEVELAND BROWNS!
bleedn...yep, the team comes first...
As I have said, this is not a good time to fall in love with players on the roster. If Cribbs doesn't want to be here, Holmgren and Heckert will try to find a place they like better than Cleveland.
IMO, Cribbs and his agents may have gone a little too far with their public attacks on the Holmgren the day he gets to Cleveland and now they appear to be unreasonable and greedy.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Quote:
Might be an OK swap talent wise, at least for speed, but in the end, wouldn't it cost us twice what we're going to pay Cribbs,...?
well not really sure what Ginn makes but the guy was a WR in college, is a WR in the NFL, draft status dosnt matter but he wasnt someone who fell thru the cracks and had to switch positions, and lay it all out on the line to make the roster....Cribbs needs to wake up and realize he wouldnt even be in the NFL if it wasnt for us....none of us would ever know who Cribbs even was.
Its really hard to stick with him when he is mouthing off the way he is in the media. No body made him sign the deal he signed, he was happy as could be when it first went down.....but then Hester got that big payday and then it was like Cribbs said "hey thats not fair" and started crying about getting more money......He proved he deserves a raise, they offered him double of what he is making now and he throws a fit....I tell you this much if my company wanted to double my pay I would do cartwheels.....
He needs to sit down and ask himself, "if the browns didnt give me the chance what would I be making right now", he doubtfully would of made a NFL roster without us....it seems as soon as one thing gets settled some more drama bust out.....UGH 
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Mac, What irk's me is that these guys make the big bucks to play at a high level. So what happens when they do play at a high level? They all say they want more money. What are we paying 'em for to begin with? This is a cycle. How is the rest of the Team gonna look at this? Most of these guys go 110% when their out on the field. Whats gonna keep them from jumping up & down wanting more $$$ everytime one of them has a good year?
The Buck Stops at Homey's Desk!
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
well not really sure what Ginn makes
7/27/2007: Signed a five-year, $19.6 million contract. The deal includes $14 million guaranteed. 2009: $677,917, 2010: $1,035,833, 2011: $1,393,750, 2012: $1,801,667 (Voidable Year), 2013: Free Agent
link
Miami would have to deal with the salary cap ramifications (hit of 2/5ths of the 14million) to trade him. We'd just be on the hook for 2.4 million plus whatever escalators he might have in his deal.
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unless 2010 is an uncapped year, in which case there are zero ramifications to them for trading him. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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They offered $1.4 million?
Frankly, it's an insult... though I wish Josh hadn't shot off his mouth to the media, even if it is somewhat understandable.
Double that $1.4 million up to $2.8 mill per season and it's much closer to what Josh Cribb deserves.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Some of you are just missing the point. It's not just about JC anymore, It's about paying players major bucks to go out & play the best they can. What happens when they do? They want more $$$. It has to stop somewhere.
JC was happy as a clam when PS gave him the new contract. Somebody else comes along & starts to make more & all of a sudden he thinks he should be given more. I think I'll start calling him JR. After KWII.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Human nature: back then he was certainly glad to get a long-term deal. Two or three years later he views himself as highly underpaid, as do I.
Human nature.
Think of the guys on this team who are getting paid FAR more than he is, and yet he does FAR more for this team than many of them.
How quickly people forget... he was a man-man offense when we beat Pitt... he took 2 back vs. KC... if he isn't taking KO returns to the house, he's setting us up in good field position. This guy is a beast and deserves a 'beast-ian' contract.
Pay. The. Man.
gmstrong -----------------
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1.4 mil, an insult? Maybe but there is this thing called negotiation. It usually involves two parties, one starts really high, and one starts really low.
His agent is going about it the wrong way in my opinion, but what ever.
As far as any attitude Cribbs may have, I think we can blame some of it on Dion Sanders prime time monday night "pay the man" shout outs. Josh just might have got a big head from that.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Quote:
Quote:
NOBODY IS BIGGER THAN THE CLEVELAND BROWNS!
bleedn...yep, the team comes first...
As I have said, this is not a good time to fall in love with players on the roster. If Cribbs doesn't want to be here, Holmgren and Heckert will try to find a place they like better than Cleveland.
IMO, Cribbs and his agents may have gone a little too far with their public attacks on the Holmgren the day he gets to Cleveland and now they appear to be unreasonable and greedy.
Isn't it odd, then, that the biggest team player we've had over the last four years is being dicked around?
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Let me first preface this by saying I'm a big Cribbs fan, so I might be a little biased...
I can't believe some of the crap I've read in this thread questioning Cribbs' character. Some people think Cribbs was acting in his interviews to make himself look good? Really? You think he's greedy? You think he just wants attention?
How many of you remember the story of Cribbs walking with a former coach's son on parent night at a HS game because the boy's father had passed away? He purposely tried to hide it from the media. But yeah, it's all a front to make himself look good.../sarcasm
Remember when Josh got knocked out at the end of the Ravens game? He could have easily said, "Well, we're not going anywhere this season. Might as well shut it down and make sure I don't get hurt worse this year and ruin my contract negotiations." Instead, he's out there the next week, and ends the season with the best 4-game streak of his career. Sounds real greedy to me...
If anyone in the history of football has earned a raise, it's Cribbs. People don't realize that he could be one paralyzing hit away from losing everything...especially the way he plays. Just think if that Ravens hit left him unable to walk. Do you think the Browns would think twice about cutting him? How fair is that? I don't blame him for trying to get as much money as he can.
And for you people upset by Josh saying he saved the coaches jobs...good job at embellishing the quote. He never said anything about "single-handedly" saving jobs. Here's the actual quote: "I'd like to think that some of my play over those last four games helped those guys keep their jobs, including my two kickoff returns for touchdowns against Kansas City. I wonder how many jobs would've been lost if I hadn't laid it on the line for them every single week?'' I see nothing wrong with that. If he would have shut it down after his injury instead of "laying it on the line," the season could (and probably would) have turned out much differently.
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Quote:
Isn't it odd, then, that the biggest team player we've had over the last four years is being dicked around?
Is he really? I mean, the only way you can say that for sure is if you know both sides of the story.... and nothing is coming out of the Browns on the subject? So I don't know how you could know that for sure..
Just sayin... I think any judgement on the subject is premature..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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NRTU
One thing I haven't heard really mentioned is that the position Cribbs plays, Kick returner and gunner, is one of the more dangerous positions in football. he sets himself up every week for serious injury, particularly the way he runs. Any day he could get severely injured and his career over.
Knowing that, he still gives 100% every play. He's got one chance at a good contract, realistically speaking. Waiting three years, he won't ever be paid what he is worth now. It makes total business sense, even taking the emotion out of it. Coupled with his character over the last years and the promises made to him, it's a shame that the Browns have let it go this far. Really not right.
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Quote:
Quote:
Isn't it odd, then, that the biggest team player we've had over the last four years is being dicked around?
Is he really? I mean, the only way you can say that for sure is if you know both sides of the story.... and nothing is coming out of the Browns on the subject? So I don't know how you could know that for sure..
Just sayin... I think any judgement on the subject is premature..
Perhaps, but considering that Cribbs has demonstrated great character, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Agent speak aside, he's been dicked around not just now but for a year and a half.
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As premature as Cribbs and his agents running to the media a day or two after Holmgren took over.
There's a lot of time between now and the OTA's or the draft, go find a beach somewhere, sip a drink with an umbrella in it and relax. Things will work out.
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So I guess we should just tell all the other players that put it all on the line every game that they should just go home because JR got mad & is taking his ball & going home? He is NOT the only player that lays it all out all the time. Injurys happen all the time. He signed the contract. He is Accountable.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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 You say for a year & a half? Really??? That would put him in just the 2nd year of a new contract. I know, why don't we just rip up EVEYBODY's contract & give EVERYBODY A NEW DEAL???? Why should a mans word mean anything anymore? 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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The reason I say year and a half is because he's been promised a new contract for a year and a half. Has nothing to do with what year his contract was in.
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Is this Josh? Josh, I don't think people question your character or ability - I personally think this latest demand is out of character for you. Holmgren said you would get a raise which I believe means you have to sit down and negotiate - without going public with demands. The timing of your tantrum is bad. The Browns are still working on getting a general manager here and he might have some input as to your contract situation. I know you have been patient so far  since you have been asking for a raise since the 2nd year of a six year deal. Just try to wait for Heckert to get here before you use the media again to threaten your employer.
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Quote:
You say for a year & a half?
Really??? That would put him in just the 2nd year of a new contract.
I know, why don't we just rip up EVEYBODY's contract & give EVERYBODY
A NEW DEAL???? Why should a mans word mean anything anymore?
1. Only one side of the agreement is to be honored? Teams can disregard them at their convenience.
2. I would have no problem, none, with ripping up everyone's contract and negotiating based on their performance on the field.
3. Teams don't seem to have a problem asking players underperforming their contracts to redo them.
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You are either a troll or have no idea how an NFL contract works. And I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
The Browns also signed the contract. However, they can cancel that at any time. Shouldn't they also be Accountable?
If Cribbs get hurts and can't play again, do you think the Browns would pay him another cent? Cribbs play one of the most dangerous positions in all of sports.
And I like the JR. Comparing him to KW2 is about as ridiculous as it gets.
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And no, I'm not Josh, sorry. Hahaha...
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Quoting a post by ttimothygman, just clicking on you Quote:
Nobody is saying that special teams aren't important.
There are quite a few people saying that actually. Its been one of the main arguments against Cribbs in this entire discussion.
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1. taking this thing public and threatening to hold out or force a trade. If he continued what he was doing previously he had all the public backing. Coming out like this really only caused some to second guess their opinion.
Can't disagree with you there. Pretty amateur stuff by his agents. Though that doesn't mean that because his agents are slimebags (big shocker there, right?) that Cribbs wasn't slighted, that he doesn't deserve to be the one exception to the rule that you don't redo contracts that early into them, and that he's all of a sudden a bad person and doesn't deserve our support. I've seen more than a few people say things like screw Cribbs, we don't need him, etc, over this.
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2. The timing of the whole thing. The president has only been on the job for a couple of days. At this point there are several things that are more important than renegotiating a players contract who still has 3 years left on his current deal. There is a whole off season for this to be taken care of.
Hard to argue with you there too, except for the fact that from Cribbs point of view he probably sees this as deja vu. He was promised the exact same thing 2 years in a row and 2 years in a row those promises didn't come to fruition. He also knows that his career is most likely not going to extend into his 30's and that he doesn't have a lot of time left, he wants to make sure he gets this taken care of now before the clock ticks more than it already has.
Some people will disagree with me but I think that even though he probably does only have a few years left you should acknowledge that he has been a top notch player and person for this organization his entire career and we have been paying him pennies on the dollar compared to his actual worth based on his contributions. I would argue in favor of throwing him money based on what he has already done and not been compensated for instead on basing it all on what he is going to do for the rest of his contract. Cribbs is a special case, and in this case I would prefer if we did what I consider to be the right thing, even if it isn't the optimal decision from a business standpoint.
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3. Over valuing his importance to the team. He actually came out and said that he personally saved these coaches jobs. Like he was the only guy on the field. Again he is a special teams player. That doesn't make him unimportant. However it does limit how much he gets paid. If he would have made more of an impact as a WR in the passing we would be having a whole different conversation. To say that 1.4 million is a slap in the face is silly. It a fine starting point for what he does for this team. From there he can negotiate it up and get somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 million plus incentives. Us saying he is only a ST player is really just putting it into perspective. Not saying "don't pay the man" just saying "pay the man accordingly"
First off, he did not come out and say that he personally saved the coaches jobs. He said this:
"I'd like to think that some of my play over those last four games helped those guys keep their jobs..."
He is saying that him playing as hard and as well as he did HELPED (its right there in the quote) the team win those games and that 4 game winning streak is what saved the coaches jobs. Do we know if the 4 game winning streak is why the coaches kept their jobs? No, we don't, but we can all feel pretty safe in our guesses that they would have fired Mangini if that streak hadn't happened. We do know that Cribbs put this team on his back during those games and willed us to victory in the Kansas City game and he significantly contributed to the other wins with field position, creating plays with his talent when we had an opponent stacking 9-10 in the box, and STILL had success. He doesn't deserve all the credit for those runs, Vickers was a beast of a man in those games too as well as decent play from the line, but he broke quite a few tackles himself and made something out of nothing quite often.
I don't think anyone here is advocating that we give the guy a Peyton Manning type contract. He clearly does not have the same impact on this team that Manning has on his, but Cribbs does have a significant impact on this team and how many wins we've had since he's played for us. Cribbs agents said that they thought 2.5 million would have been a good starting point, and I pretty much agree with that. Ideally, personally, I'd give Cribbs about 3 million a year and throw some incentives in there. Bonus for making the Pro Bowl, bonus for having x amount of yards, x amount of returns for TD's, etc. Doesn't sound that unreasonable does it? The fact is, the Browns took a hard line stance and said 1.4 a year was the FINAL offer, as this is how it was quoted in the paper coming from Dawn Aponte, who was handling the negotiations:
"She said it would be 1.4 today, 1.4 in March and 1.4 in August."
Sounds like a final offer to me.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Quote:
You say for a year & a half?
Really??? That would put him in just the 2nd year of a new contract.
I know, why don't we just rip up EVEYBODY's contract & give EVERYBODY
A NEW DEAL???? Why should a mans word mean anything anymore?
Here's what they could do to solve that problem:
Redo Cribbs deal...Next guy comes in wanting a new deal, you say "Come back when you do what Josh Cribbs does and I will GLADLY tear up your contract and give you a better one. If you want the same special treatment as Josh, do the same special things that Josh does for us and you will have it."
Problem solved.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I, Sir, have been a Die-Hard Fan since '67. Sure it works both ways. That's the whole point of this. That's one of the reasons why these guy's get paid like they do. Short life span so to speak. If JR does not want to take the chance of getting hurt & losing out, then he can just quit now. Look man, He works for the Browns, Not the other way around. He can be like the rest of us, If were not happy with our employers we just quit & go on to something else. The Browns don't owe Josh nothing, They gave him his shot & also gave him a extended contract, which he signed. That's the point.
Just ask Clay Matthews what he did in the off season to make ends meet.
He sold used cars. Which if I'm right he now owns the place.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
I have another idea, left just give him some of Derek Anderson's money, he hasn't earned it anyway. 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
I have another idea, left just give him some of Derek Anderson's money, he hasn't earned it anyway.
The only problem with that is we'll be trading DA for a chili dog and some tater tots and I'm really a tots fan!
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Quote:
I, Sir, have been a Die-Hard Fan since '67. Sure it works both ways. That's the whole point of this. That's one of the reasons why these guy's get paid like they do. Short life span so to speak. If JR does not want to take the chance of getting hurt & losing out, then he can just quit now. Look man, He works for the Browns, Not the other way around. He can be like the rest of us, If were not happy with our employers we just quit & go on to something else. The Browns don't owe Josh nothing, They gave him his shot & also gave him a extended contract, which he signed. That's the point.
Just ask Clay Matthews what he did in the off season to make ends meet.
He sold used cars. Which if I'm right he now owns the place.
No, the point is that you don't understand "contract" in terms of NFL contracts. If I have a contract with my employer, and he fires me because I break my leg or I suck at my job, I can sue him and recoup the entire amount.
NFL contracts do not work that way.
What Clay Matthews did in the offseason is irrelevant to this discussion because, again, it has nothing to do with the contract situation in the NFL today.
Your ethics are great and all, but you are trying to apply them to a world that doesn't go by the same rules as yours. Sorry.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Quote:
I have another idea, left just give him some of Derek Anderson's money, he hasn't earned it anyway.
How about we just give Cribbs the percentage of the total cap that matches the percentage of his production on the field. Should be around 20 million for this year, I imagine.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cribbs contract/trade talks
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