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I think the most likely scenario is this. Quinn gets another season, going into the season as the unquestioned starter. But we draft a "project" QB with one of our many mid-round picks (two 3's, one 4, and three 5's.) That QB might fit very nicely in a West Coast offense. After the season is through, a true evaluation will be made on Quinn (finally) and we will know if we need a QB for Mangini's system or for someone else.
I think this presents a problem. When you know a guy isn't any good, making him the starter then having him get shown up in practice everyday isn't good for the team.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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J/C
What does anyone think it would cost us for Kolb? A 2nd round pick? or a 3rd?
Start at the Schaub deal from Atlanta.....at the very least (2 2nd round picks)
#gmstrong
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If Brady Quinn is anything other than a backup going into next season I will strip at the gay parade. If Daboll is the Brown's OC next year I will .... oh wait. 
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look at the bright side, if quinn is the starting qb next season, we'll really be able to test out harrison's durability. 
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My dream...
Kolb for C. Williams and a 3rd... Williams wants out and would fit nicely into the Eagle's attacking 4-3 D. The 3rd is extra and would still give us picks in every round. Anderson released..
More likely...
Clausen or Bradford in the first with Quinn starting the season off... Anderson released...
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
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Williams actually started looking pretty good the last part of the season.
I think rather than trading away our talented players, we should use our surplus of draft picks as an advantage. Either use some of our draft picks to trade for a QB or draft a QB towards the middle of the draft.
Trading away talent from a somewhat depleted roster doesn't seem like a good idea.
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I'd see what it would cost to get Mike Vick.
Yeah, but you want him to keep the spot warm for Tebow. 
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I'd see what it would cost to get Mike Vick.
That seems to be at the back of a few minds out there..and the reality is Vick might be easier to obtain then either McNabb/Kolb..
But I doubt if the Browns would sniff in that direction.. While I'm not bidding for Vick people need to consider the Eagles side ..they said they want McNabb back if he struggles or goes down they want Kolb to be in there..not Vick...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/14/10 03:56 PM.
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Why is there all this talk of us going out a QB that fits Holmgren's system? He is not coaching the team. Marty Mornhinwheg is not coaching the team. Jon Gruden is not coaching the team. Last time I checked, Mangini is coaching the team. And his offensive coordinator is Brian Daboll.
Because everyone under the sun knows that while Mangini kept his job, he and his entire staff will be gone if the falter, while Holmgren has hired a WCO GM and may be acquiring another WCO guy from Seattle if they blow up the organization, which looks likely.
Why invest in a QB for a coach when it's the Czar who has the longterm contract?
Mangini and staff may have been given a stay of execution, but they aren't going to get their players. They'll be getting the players that Holmgren and Heckert want.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Interesting..I've been saying that myself but it appears the majority here seem to feel that Gini's going to have a large say as to what type of players are brought in..
I never felt for a second that is going to happen...just as I will maintain we aren't running a basic offense ..it'll resemble bits of the Hawks/Eagles/Packers offenses..
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Last time I checked, Mangini is coaching the team. And his offensive coordinator is Brian Daboll.
I can try and answer this for ya..
While I'm pretty sure that Mangini will remain as headcoach,, I'm not sure yet that daboll will remain as OC. As MH said in the presser the other day, it depends on who becomes available,, there could be changes in the coaching staff..
But let's say that daboll remains,, I think it's safe to say that MH will have his say on how the Offense will be run,,, JMO however.
Couple that with Holmgren wasn't gushing,, even a little, about either of our current QBs and add in that Anderson is a load of salary,,, sounds to me that one if not both are gone..
But all of that is just an opinion..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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'Gini was stripped of all power and was given a choice of finding a new job or handing his gift-wrapped nuts to Holmgren on a leash. He's on double-(not so)secret probation and could be the first coach to be fired next year. Maybe his OC was kept, but you can be sure that OC won't get to call any shots.
'Gini will have some input, but to have a strong say in the players? Forget about that on the offensive side of the ball.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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that doesn't sound like the way it went down Toad.. I mean, I suppose it could be, but it doesn't look like it..
I don't think mangini is on any kinda probation at all...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Here's how you'll know:
When the season starts and the first lists come out of which coaches start the season on the hot-seat, take special note of whether or not Mangini's name appears on that list. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Question. I have read all the posts regarding Philadelphia QB Kevin Kolb i.e trading Individually or in combination Shaun Rogers, Corey williams, draft pick etc. for him. Checking his stats I don't see where he is remotely worth that kind of asking price. I haven't seen him play much that, I can recall, so I am only going by his stats. Am I that far off base in thinking that any trade involving the players mentioned is ludicrous?
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Most of his playing time came a few years ago when McNabb and like every other QB on their roster was hurt.... and I agree that he would not be worth trading those sorts of players.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Question. I have read all the posts regarding Philadelphia QB Kevin Kolb i.e trading Individually or in combination Shaun Rogers, Corey williams, draft pick etc. for him. Checking his stats I don't see where he is remotely worth that kind of asking price. I haven't seen him play much that, I can recall, so I am only going by his stats. Am I that far off base in thinking that any trade involving the players mentioned is ludicrous?
The guy only had a couple of starts, so his stats won't tell the story. Heckert knows far more about him than anyone in the entire city of Cleveland, so if he's worth getting, outside of Andy Reid, Heckert would know.
As a side note, I'm not at all convinced the Eagles will simply pick one QB and trade the other. Reid thinks they are a Super Bowl contender, and while people can bag on McNabb if they wish, he gives them the best chance to win. Considering Kolb costs them nothing in terms of salary, I think it'd be foolish to trade him.
It's kind of a no-win with Kolb. If the Eagles are willing to part with him, considering how old and expensive McNabb is, then they don't think he's the future so we're getting a longshot. If they aren't willing to move him, well, we have no shot. I don't think he's in play as a long-term answer because of this quandary.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't expect a pick like Bradford to be given the keys from day one, I think MH would make it a personal hands on thing that nobody would feel imposed upon if he does.
This is where I think everyone's wrong...
Holmgren won't have the time to do this...He's the P...He's not gonna spend his time on the field and mentor anyone...This is what he has left to the COACHES...
Everyone thinks Mikey's gonna come down and start doing things COACHES do...I disagree to the fullest extent...Holmgren has a NEW position on an NFL team...One he has NEVER owned before...
This is a NEW GAME for Mikey...As of now he's counting on his Coaches...
Go Browns!!!
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I live in Eagles country and hear more about them and see more Eagles games than I would like.
Forget Kolb. I won't say he's untouchable, but he's very, VERY likely their starting QB next year. It would take a 1st plus. He was groomed to be McNabb's sucsessor and the smart money says it's happening next season.
Vick doesn't look like a QB, if he ever did. Still, that said, he was hitting passes better than McNabb did at points.
We're not winning the Superbowl next year, anyway; I'm fine with BQ or DA and addressing all those other pressing needs that, when addressed, will allow a mid-level QB to bring us success the year after.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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"This is where I think everyone's wrong...
Holmgren won't have the time to do this...He's the P...He's not gonna spend his time on the field and mentor anyone...This is what he has left to the COACHES."
If a president does his job right - you'd be surprised at the time he will have on his hands.
Lets see he just brought in his Bean counter
He just brought in his GM
He just got his HC with confidence.
Just exactly what is his job description when on all counts these three hires are running their ends smoothly?
Even by MH account on his individual presser 1/12...he states now that those 3 are in place he can take a breather. He now can "ROLL UP HIS SLEEVES" and get to work...watching film, etc...football stuff.
He also noted how he knows QBs that he was one and looks at the game with that mentality. He also noted how QB in his eyes is the most important position in all sports (All of Sports was worded by the Journalist).
He's not going to get hands on too much...but come Training camp - I doubt if he has a whistle on....and he might be doing some smoozing with Randy a lot.
But he will spend some time on that field and it would be with our QBs and with Daboll...mentoring both!
JMHO We'll find out in 6 months, of course I'm guessing...but when that warm whether hits and everything is running smoothly he's going to have some time on his hand and football fever will hit. Mangini in his individual presser mentioned how great its going to be to have MH around mentoring the Offense. Guessing yes but educated guessing???
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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And, what would Hasslebeck cost?
What would we pay?
A few thoughts before my opinion
1) His 2010 salary is 5.75M and his 2010 cap hit is 10 million. So, Seattle would have to eat 4.25M cap-wise (if an uncapped year, it may not matter) if they trade him. This may require an increased offer.
2) Carroll is on record stating he'll be starter next year. This could mean nothing, or it could be to drive up his value.
3) Seneca Wallace is a fine spot starter and backup, but is not a long term starter and Mike Teel is emergency QB, not anywhere near being ready for the field in any capacity. Seattle has nothing if they trade Hasselbeck. This may require an increased offer.
4) Hasselbeck has played poorly and has been injured quite a bit the last 2 seasons. As well, his OL (both seasons) and WR corps (2008) have been hit hard by injuries. In my opinion, the latter has a lot to do with the former. What does this all do to his value?
That being said, I'd think at his age and knowing it is his last season on the current contract, I'd think our 2nd rounder would get the job done - maybe our second 3rd rounder and Quinn. I suspect that DA would not be accepted as part of the trade due mainly to a combination of #1 above and DA's salary. Seattle is in need of 4-3 DE and DTs, so maybe a combo pick/player works too.
EDIT: I'd be personally content with the second 3rd rounder plus Quinn (making the deal contingent on a 3 year deal with Hasselbeck), and cutting DA (hard to have 9.5m on the bench) then signing a journeyman backup and picking LeFevour or Ponder later in the draft. If we do a deal with Hasselbeck, I think it'd be vital to shore up the right side of the line, and pick up a great route runner (LaFell or Damian Williams in round 2) to set up Hasselbeck for success. So, maybe something like Haden in 1, Williams in 2, Carimi in 3, then focus on defense the rest of the way...(with exception of maybe LeFevour or Ponder as previously mentioned)
Last edited by clwb419; 01/14/10 06:35 PM.
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Here's how you'll know:
When the season starts and the first lists come out of which coaches start the season on the hot-seat, take special note of whether or not Mangini's name appears on that list.
Well geez.. if he's winning he won't be on the hot seat.. if he's losing, he will be on the hot seat..
the problem is, the Media is the one that comes up with whos on the hot seat.. do you trust them?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If a president does his job right - you'd be surprised at the time he will have on his hands.
And you know this from your vast experience as President? Your guessing is rather uneducated, imho. If he's doing his job right, he'll be busy as hell.
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And you know this from your vast experience as President? Your guessing is rather uneducated, imho. If he's doing his job right, he'll be busy as hell.
Woooo there big fella... not exactly accurate. if the president of the browns or any other business entity does his job right, meaning hire the right folks, delegate tasks, set up strong follow up techniques... he'll actually have MORE free time. I can't answer for Eo, but I bet you that's what he's thinking....
Oh, I'm the President of my company and it's not my first time in that chair.. so I know from what I speak........
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/14/10 07:40 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh, I'm the President of my company and it's not my first time in that chair.. so I know from what I speak........
Geez, around here guys that run paper-routes don't need Presidents. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Someones gotta get those little boys and girls moving each morning... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I would gladly offer a first round pick for 2003-2005 Matt Hasselbeck.
Now? No way would I even offer a third, he is on a sharp decline and can't even stay healthy.
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As I said, he's had a very injured OL and WR corps over the last 2 years.
Hard to stay upright when you have midseason UDFAs protecting you and its hard to have decent stats with midseason UDFAs running routes for you.
When he has had time (meaning not having a DE or LB in his face when he receives the snap), he's been no different than the Hasselbeck of 03-05.
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I'll grant the protection point because we have enough experience with that.
I don't agree with the UDFA point because their WR corps were Koren Robinson as #1, Darrell Jackson as #2, and Bobby Engram as #3 (the first two are no longer in the NFL). They lead the league in drops, and he still put up good numbers.
It doesn't hurt that he had Shaun Alexander putting up 1600+ yards and 15+ TDs, either.
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Not for the two years I mentioned. DJack was on the 49ers and Engram was out a part of last year. None were on the team this year.
In 2008:
Deion Branch, Logan Payne, Nate Burleson, Bobby Engram, and Ben Obamanu were all out injured most or all of the season. The WR corps were pieces parts of Jordan Kent, Courtney Taylor, Mike Haas, Michael Bumpus, Billy McMullen Koren Robinson. Nobody on that list scares anyone.
2009 is obviously a different story - Branch, Burleson, and Housh were 1-3 with Deon Butler being the Engram replacement.
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i'm a little upset in regards that Anderson is making all that money, and does nothing for us (except 07), and Cribbs still cannot get his deal, and he does it ALL for us.
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Quote:
If Brady Quinn is anything other than a backup going into next season I will strip at the gay parade.
If Daboll is the Brown's OC next year I will ....
oh wait.
hey, I think I got a new sig
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Oh. I want nothing to do with Matt Hasselbeck after 2005 which is why I personally approved of 2003-2005 Matt Hasselbeck.
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j/c Based on what I saw of the Eagles playoff game I don't think McNabb is long for their starting job. So I doubt Kolb is in play and McNabb might be worth a lot more to them than us. He's a QB safety net there . Here he's and aging stop gap vet. How much would we give up for McNabb? I'd be surprised to see Hasselbeck leave for peanuts which is what I'd pay. I don't think Campbell is going anywhere this year either I see MS rebuilding their line first. So if we don't roll the dice and draft somebody high,maybe we pick up a Vick or ugh Trent Edwards stop gap? Maybe MH can perform a QB miracle with Edwards. Fry sure looked better than he did here. ( I don't want him back) Otherwise its ......60 yds passing per game. 
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Just a suggestion, Moe........... 
Before anyone passes judgment on the Eagles based on their season or performances in critical games leading up to, and including, the playoffs, keep in mind this one simple fact: They lost their starting right tackle to a back injury during week one, then lost their starting center late in the year, while simultaneously benching and ultimately deactivating the other Andrews brother who was supposed to be their right guard. It's been suggested he hasn't fully recovered from an 08 injury.
So late in the year, the Eagles weren't just missing one or two guys to injuries, but were missing three projected starters from their line. They shuffled a guard to center, and brought the badly out-of-shape Jean-Gilles (360 pounds) off the bench to start. He admitted his conditioning was lacking.
So, in essence, that team was playing with a patch-work offensive line for most of the year, and it went south very quickly during the last month. As we all saw, McNabb and the Eagles had no answer for a fully healthy Cowboys defensive front.
McNabb has been an up-and-down QB during his time in the NFL, but he's been the reason the Eagles have been Super Bowl contenders over the years. He isn't the scrambling threat he used to be, but despite losing Westbrook to a series of concussions while breaking in youngsters at receiver, McNabb did post a 93 rating, the 3rd highest of his career.
The only reason they'd let him go is money because his play was exemplary this past season. A quick examination of his contract shows he's guaranteed a $6.2 million bonus this upcoming season no matter if he's on the roster or not. Besides that, his salary is a very cheap $5 million.
So to be honest, I see no reason why the Eagles would let him go. In fact, I think it'd be ridiculous. It just seems that he's an old broken down war-horse who has been in the league for 20 years. The truth is that he just turned 33 in November. Kolb is costing them nothing, and Reid knows he has a championship contender. I can't see him shipping McNabb off just to save $4 million bucks in exchange while handing the reigns over to Kolb.
Remember two years ago Sal Palantonio couldn't have been more adamant that the McNabb era was over. He was dead wrong, and McNabb responded with a whopping 7500 yards, 45 TD's to only 21 INT's over the last two seasons.
He isn't going anywhere.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I will say that out of all of our options, I like this one depending on the price. I don't care what he costs us in terms of salary or bonuses, but what we'd have to give up to get him.
A change of scenery would help him greatly and McNabb on a bad day is better than anything we have and better than anyone who is expected to be available.
I agree with you that it seems every year they are sending the guy off but sooner or later that will happen and I can't see why this year isn't the perfect year considering what he's scheduled to make - cap hit of over 11M this year for them!
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What cap hit? No CBA.............no cap.
So it'd be about money.
They must pay him $6.2 million no matter if he's on the roster, with the Browns, or humping penguins in Antarctica. He still gets that money. Beyond that, $5 million in salary for a guy like McNabb is a STEAL.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Quote:
If we don't draft a QB, I think we should go after Kolb, McNabb, Vick ... in that order.
All would be a HUGE upgrade over what we got ... HUGE.
If we want any chance of having a .500 to better season next year, we cannot go into the season without an upgrade at QB.
The reason I mention Vick of the 3 is he is the one who would be available, and at a cost we could afford.
Cheap price, immediate upgrade over what we have.
I think Vick can be a pretty good qb who also brings a wildcat element on every play.
I do it yesterday if I was in charge.
That doesn't mean we don't address QB in the way of a prospect to groom. Vick is just the bridge for a year or two.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Fry sure looked better than he did here. ( I don't want him back)
LOL,, Oh man would that cause a firestorm or what.. Might even see the rebirth of CoachB...
Charile looked better this year than at anytime prior,, Don't know if it means anything. According to this: http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
He's not a free agent...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267 |
We reached the same conclusion for entirely different reasons. Admittedly yours has a more foundation than mine. I'm not and Eagle fan I'm a Cowboy hater. I turned the game on hoping to see The Boys get a woopin but the Eagles looked so turrible there was no need to watch the whole thing.
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