DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Heckert Has A Good Track Record In The Draft - Grossi

Cleveland Browns general manager Tom Heckert has good track record in draft
By Tony Grossi
January 15, 2010, 8:11PM

Browns President Mike Holmgren said that Tom Heckert will have a lot of responsibility as the team's general manager.

But Heckert breaks down his mission this way: "My main job is to find players, and that's what I intend to do."

Finding players for the Philadelphia Eagles helped make them an elite team in the NFC. Heckert joined the Eagles as director of player personnel in May 2001. He was promoted to general manager in 2006.

Tom Heckert did a good job of finding talent throughout the draft during his time in Philadelphia.In the nine years Heckert assisted in building teams for coach Andy Reid, the Eagles went 11-5, 12-4, 12-4, 13-3, 6-10, 10-6, 8-8, 9-6-1 and 11-5.

The 6-10 record in 2005 marked Heckert's only losing season in his 19 years in the NFL, counting 10 with the Miami Dolphins. That losing record might have been the result of back-to-back sub-par drafts in 2003 and '04.

The Eagles' No. 1 pick in 2003 was bust defensive end Jerome McDougle. They traded up to get him, giving up an extra second-round pick. The one good pick of that draft was second-rounder L.J. Smith, a tight end who caught a lot of balls for Philadelphia over the next six seasons.

The team did great in signing undrafted players that year, however. The Eagles found future starting center Jamaal Jackson at Delaware State, and a serviceable receiver, Greg Lewis, at Illinois.

The Eagles traded up again the following year to take offensive tackle Shawn Andrews in the first round. He's a two-time Pro Bowler; the rest of that draft, however, produced little.

Except for those two seasons, just about every other Philadelphia draft in Heckert's time as player personnel director or general manager has been highly graded.

In 2002, the Eagles scored bull's-eyes on their first four picks -- cornerback Lito Sheppard, safety Michael Lewis, cornerback Sheldon Brown and running back Brian Westbrook.

In 2005, the Eagles hit well in the middle rounds, snatching starting guard Todd Herremans in the fourth round and pass rusher Trent Cole in the fifth.

The 2006 draft was the first with Heckert as general manager. He nabbed three starters among his first four picks -- defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley, offensive tackle Winston Justice and guard Max Jean-Gilles. In the third round, Heckert worked a trade with Eric Mangini's New York Jets to move up five spots. He ended up taking the player Mangini had targeted -- linebacker Chris Gocong.

"And there were a bunch of other players they took that we had very similar grades on, on the board," Mangini recalled. "They have a lot of the [same], not just types of players but types of people on their roster. I've always had an appreciation -- especially since that experience -- of how similar we are in that sense."

Philadelphia's starting tight end, Brent Celek, here catching a pass against Denver last month, was a fifth-round pick of the Eagles in 2007.[In 2007, the Eagles traded out of the first round and used their first pick in the second round on quarterback-of-the-future Kevin Kolb. They took backup defensive end Victor Abiamiri next. Then, Heckert hit again on two middle-rounders -- middle linebacker Stewart Bradley (who was hurt in 2009) in the third round and starting tight end Brent Celek in the fifth round.

In 2008, Philadelphia selected electrifying receiver and returner DeSean Jackson in the second round and found another late-round gem, safety Quintin Demps, a valuable backup. Their first pick after two trades was defensive tackle Trevor Laws in the second round.

And last season, the Eagles traded up two spots in the first round -- surrendering merely a sixth-round pick to the Browns -- for playmaking receiver Jeremy Maclin. They also nabbed running back LeSean McCoy in the second round and he finished the season as the starter after Westbrook was lost with a concussion.

In all, 15 of the Eagles' 22 starters were drafted or signed as free agents during Heckert's time. Ten of his draft picks have made the Pro Bowl.

In a statement provided by the Eagles, coach Reid said: "Tom is one of my favorite people and I think he's great at what he does. The things that he's helped us do here are phenomenal."

Heckert believes in shoring up the lines of scrimmage. The Eagles held 17 picks in the first and second rounds under Heckert and seven were used on offensive or defensive linemen.

They traded up three times and down two times in nine drafts. In Heckert's four years as general manager, the Eagles executed 23 trades overall. They used free agency cautiously.

"The best-case scenario is to get some of your needs done in free agency and then worry about the draft and then take the best available player," Heckert said. "Because that's the last thing you want to do is force a pick in there just because of a need.

"That's our goal, to hopefully build this team where you don't have to do that. You can draft the best player that's available and then you don't have to worry about reaching for somebody."

Correction: The Browns have not hired Mike Clark to replace Tom Myslinski as head strength coach. Clark was interviewed for the position on Thursday, but the club is continuing to interview candidates, a spokesman said.

Link

I hope we don't do any trading up.. we need all the picks we can get.

If ya'll want some more detail on his drafts (as GM), I posted some details on Wed in the Tom Heckert to meet with Browns thread - as of now its on the bottom of page 3.

I found what you researched on page 7 lol



34 picks 2006-2009

12 of these included some sort of trade (didn't look at specifics of trades, but 4 were 2006, 3 2007, 4 2008 and 1 2009)

1 pro bowler (DeSean Jackson)

11 no longer on team* (~33%)

1 still on PS*

4 on IR**

7 current starters** (~20%)

11 current backups** (~33%)


* - I didn't find the whole practice squad, just transactions here and there, so these 2 numbers may be off
**-due to injury the actual starters/backup numbers may be off

By Position:
LB 5 (15%)
WR 5 (15%)
OT 4 (12%)
CB 4 (12%)
OG 3 (9%)
DE 3 (9%)
RB 3 (9%)
DT 3 (9%)
TE 2 (6%)
QB 1 (3%)
S 1 (3%)

Players
year…..Round…..Player………..position
2006…..1…..Brodrick Bunkley…..DT
2006…..2…..Winston Justice.…..OT
2006…..3…..Chris Gocong…...…LB
2006…..4…..Max Jean-Gilles…...OG
2006…..4…..Jason Avant…..……WR
2006…..5…..Jeremy Bloom……..WR
2006…..5…..Omar Gaither…..….LB
2006…..6…..LaJuan Ramsey.…..DT
2007…..2…..Kevin Kolb….…..….QB
2007…..2…..Victor Abiamiri...…..DE
2007…..3…..Stewart Bradley.…..LB
2007…..3…..Tony Hunt…..…...…RB
2007…..5…..CJ Gaddis…..…...…CB
2007…..5…..Brent Celek………...TE
2007…..6…..Rashad Barksdale…..CB
2007…..7…..Nate Ilaoa…..…....…RB
2008…..2…..Trevor Laws………....DT
2008…..2…..DeSean Jackson…..WR
2008…..3…..Bryan Smith….….....DE
2008…..4…..Mike McGlynn…......OG
2008…..4…..Quintin Demps…......S
2008…..4…..Jack Ikegwuonu…....CB
2008…..6…..Mike Gibson…….....OT
2008…..6…..Joe Mays….…….…..LB
2008…..6…..Andrew Studebaker…..DE
2008…..7…..King Dunlap…..…..…OT
2009…..1…..Jeremy Maclin…..…..WR
2009…..2…..LeSean McCoy….…..RB
2009…..5…..Cornelius Ingram……..TE
2009…..5…..Victor Harris…..…...…CB
2009…..5…..Fenuki Tupou………...OT
2009…..6…..Brandon Gibson….….WR
2009…..7…..Paul Fanaika…..…….OG
2009…..7…..Moise Fokou………....LB

His first draft was his best in my opinion, hitting on 6 of 8 on the roster still.

If 2010 draft were to follow similar patterns...
a) 2 draftees will be starters
b) 4 draftees will be backups
c) 4 draftees will be cut/PS
d) 1 draftee will be on IR next season
e) chances are good that we'll take a LB, WR, OT, and CB
f) chances are that we'll take someone with a Hawaiian/Samoan sounding name (4 in the last 3 years, it was the only "trend" I could find - I'll guess Iowa TE Tony Moeaki)

In reality, this all means nothing, just info to share with ya'll.

to an extent... BPA is good.. but if BPA is Okung.. I pass.. we have Joe Thomas, and I'd be darn if we draft a RT that high.

Alot Of good info.........But.............based on what, show us how those (his) numbers compare to all the other GM in the draft, Showing low numbers on this web-site is decieving, one looks at 33% and would think he stinks, 67% of his picks fail, but shown against others in the leauge 33% might be high becuase of the uncertainty of drafting players,

Give us somethig to compare his numbers too and those stats might actually mean something, not coming down on you, just saying...

What,, you don't have a search button on your computer

Just pulling your leg Clay....

I like how when the Eagles get a guy in the fifth round who is a backup, he's a "valuable backup", but people are constantly questioning why our late round picks aren't starting.

When you see Lewis bumbling and stumbling and you know jerome Harrison has excelled whenever given the opportunity, there is reason to question. When Poteat is giving up game breaking plays week after week, you wonder where is this talented kid called Coye Francies that impressed during camp and preseason.

You can question Mangini on why he didn't play Harrison, but you can't question him as to why he drafted Harrison.

And I think we can certainly question why the guys aren't playing.

The issue I have is that when a team like Philly gets a guy in the late rounds and he doesn't start, the article says he's a "valuable backup." When we draft a guy in a late round and he doesn't start, we question what's wrong with Mangini.

In other words, we expect every Browns pick, no matter what round, to be all-pro every single year, but we expect late round picks from other teams to just be backups and they're lucky if they really contribute.

Just a double standard, IMO.

and when you hear about a kid name Viekune is such a stud but never sees the field as even a back up.. you wonder,,,

Heckert seems to draft more in line to what many on this site would do. Bunkley, Mad Max, Bloom, McCoy, Justice, Jackson, that big RB from Hawaii forgetting his name off hand, have all been pimped pretty hard around here.

Hell Waterdawg should be real happy, he pimped most of the guys heckert has drafted lol.

you can see a little method to his madness, he doesnt try to out think himself. So where things stand now I could see him continuing the rather obvious mindset on drafting.

Folks this is the deepest and most talented draft that I have seen in forever and I am very glad Heckert is going to be there running this thing. Personally I hope we see another trade down and then some trade ups with some of our later picks.

1. Dez Bryant WR
2. Jason Fox OT
3. Trevard Lindley CB
3. Vladimir Ducasse OG

All I know is, we have plenty of needs and 11 picks to use to satisfy as many of them as we can.. Let's geter done Tom....

Why is so much emphasis being put on offense, We need defensive help very badly. My take defense 1&2 and best player available,

it's not like talent on defense isn't needed.

It sometimes takes a guy switching from DE to LB a year to get it all down too.

I'm not worried about Veikune yet.

This draft is shaping up to be super heavy on the offensive side of the ball unless you are looking at DTs and we are pretty good in that area atleast good enough so we dont have to invest a day one pick on one.

Day one expect offense. Rounds 3-5 I think we can gain some serious steals to add to defense but we have to get RT upgraded with starting caliber talent, that position destroyed any chance we had on O.

the way Bowens played, Veikune can take his time. I cant help but to feel pretty good about Kam, Bowens, DQ and Roth that should be a solid starting unit. Wimbley played on that bad ankle the last half of the season, healthy opposite Roth should be good.

I see two actual NFL starters in that group. Bowens and Wimbley need replaced.

I think Wimbley does a pretty good job.
Bowens > Barton

And he has a few good people behind him as well..

I think we have two studs in our LB group that are going unrecognized.. One shined in 2008, and another has shined in 2009..

Alex Hall
Marcus Bernard

I'm excited to see what they do in the future.

Wimbley is awful against the run. He has no containment ability and is only mediocre pass rushing. He is a bust, and not a starter.

Bowens is better than Barton, but that's like a corner being better than Hank Poteat. Okay, it's not quite that bad, but you get the point. Bowens is not good.

And Hall is far from a superstar. He is decent against the run, but he has no pass rush moves. We don't know enough about Benard at this point, but he looks like he can rush the passer. However, we have never seen him against the run and have no idea of his abilities there.

We need two starting linebackers.

I agree we need two linebackers we also need a QB, WR, TE, RT, RG, DE and 3 DBs and another RB.

Very true. That's when it comes to the point of prioritizing, and the excess of needs is the reason that I believe Wimbley will still be starting next year.

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" ...and the excess of needs is the reason that I believe Wimbley will still be starting next year.

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And I'm not sure how I feel about that prospect, Deep.

Based on all we've seen, Wimbley looks as though he might excel as a pass-rush specialist, only. That makes him either a liability or non-factor on 2 of 3 downs.

If the problem's in his intellectual capacity to master the position, then we've got a real hole to fill. If it's an isssue of coaches knowing when and how to use him, our situation isn't as dire... but it also means that our coaches have to be smart enough to use him well, and/or find someone who can man the post better than he can..

How do you see us using him to best effect?
Does he simply need to go?
Can he be used to help the team? Regularly and significantly? Right now? With the team we already have in place?
Is he truly a 4-3 peg, being (unsuccessfully) rammed into a 3-4 hole?
Should we dump him for whatever picks we can get for him?
Is he usable... given who we are, and where we are as a team?


Now you see my problem regarding Kam... don't you?


Who (or what) is Kamerion Wimbly in today's NFL?


Dawg... I can't wait to hear what you've got to tell me. This player has kept me scratchin' my head since the start of his second year in the NFL.




p.s. Any other Dawgs wanna chime in... you're welcome, too. This wasn't a PM to Deep alone....

Simply put, outside of Safety and a corner, Wimbley is the biggest hole on our defense. I cannot stress exactly how bad of a player he really is. He cannot contain the run, he isn't particularly good at coverage. He is an average pass rusher and is a freak physically. I question exactly how smart or his passion for the game as he has not shown any improvement since his rookie year.

I know Barton is bad, but I'd be much happier with a Barton-Bowens combo/fill-in if it meant getting someone to replace Wimbley. I know the lip service that Ryan gave about how he thought Wimbley was improving but I do not see it at all. He is still making the same mistakes that he did his rookie year.

I will say, however, that Benard has me intrigued and he may be able to fill in one of the spots at OLB depending on how he can improve. He has certainly shown more promise this year than Wimbley has shown his whole career, outside of his rookie year.

this reply may be a bit convoluted, but will get to Wimbley eventually.

If a team is what its record says it is, then the Browns are below average.
8 and 8 = average for this exercise.

Breaking down each position, we have some players that we know are "above average". And there are some that would get "average" grades.Keeping in mind our record, logic dictates that we must have "below average" somewhere on the starting roster, right?

Heckert's task should be to replace all the below average starters with at least an average starter and keep the below average starters as quality back-ups. This , hopefully, would position the Browns as a contender for at least a playoff spot.

Using my "sniff " test, Wimbley appears to be below average but not horrible.Horrible is what we saw at the QB position this past season.

I would agree that Wimbley may indeed be a starter for a while longer out of necessity. Necessity = dire needs elsewhere.

But, IMO, Wimbley would make a decent back-up and should be thought about in those terms. Injuries happen all the time.

Barton: what is the extent of his neck injury? Will he return?

Getting "average" play from the QB position would make this team a whole lot better.

Okung opposite Thomas would solidify the line for years.

The more lineman the better.

great thought on the field.....but then consider the $$$$ tied up in 2 OL....


a QB could relax on a lawnchair in the pocket, but it not feasible to pay those 2 salaries at effectively one position....

womack was a MH draft in seattle, and filled in quite well at RT. speed rushers give him a bit of a problem....but this could be mitigated with good RG and TE play....

i dont see how we could say no to haden if he's there....he and wright would be a good tandem, need to get that safety as well. pool unfortunately has the noggin issue....

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great thought on the field.....but then consider the $$$$ tied up in 2 OL....

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For years,we've been listening to folks talk about "if we only had a line" if we have a chance to get "a line" should be miss that chance over bucks?