|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
Okung's not the one that can't play RT is he? I know there was one OT in the draft that some say he is not strong enough to play RT. I can't see reaching on a T in the first if he has to convert.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323 |
its just a bit of overkill, having #3, #7, and #21 picks tied up in the OL is one way to get a good OL, but i guess i see it as excessively unnecessary.
i love me some OL, so i wouldn't be upset with the pick (pending vetting). they're my favorite guys to watch during games...just love watching road graders pancake guys. it would offer security to a possible injury to joe, so its not a bad pick.
i mention the money because it would have a consequence on the cap, limiting our talent elsewhere. thats all im really getting at. our OL was pretty decent down the stretch, mainly due to hadnot and fraley rotating at RG. we ran over teams when they knew it was coming.....so i guess im not seeing the same degree of need as many others. there will be some good tackles in the 3rd, not sure we need to go with 3 first rounders on the line though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
I get what you are saying. It does have its merit as a viewpoint.
At the end of the year the line did do better. If the combo of Fraley, Womack and Hadnot can work on the right side I'm all for it.
IIRC, it was Peen that mentioned a tackle prospect from Tennessee that could be a good pick-up in the 3rd. But the problem with that is that other teams get to pick too.
Some mocks have us taking Haden in the first. It's not like we don't need DBs. Any combo of tackle, safety, corner back, linebacker or guard would suit me for our first 4 or 5 picks.
I'm hoping to get a vet for QB. Anyone that is average. RE: my sig
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Yes, he is.
I don't want Okung; I think that by draft time he won't even be the top ranked tackle.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550 |
Reply to those pimping Womack Porkchop played well down the stretch but lets be realistic, we were max protect 90% of the time. We were so afraid of the result of having Porkchop over there that we went 1 receiver 2 TE's and just pounded the hell out of the ball. Now Okung is more of a true LT type but Trent Williams hmm well he is a freaking beast and he is not a LT at the next level but that doesnt mean he cant be a pro bowl RT for the next 15 years either 
Last edited by Mourgrym; 01/17/10 12:43 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
just clicking but deepthreat I will probably be hitting on some evaluations you made regarding the LBs.
1. Mourgrym haven't studied the draft to the nth degree but I did suspect that this draft noted as possibly the last big contract draft class - would see any and every possible stud come out in and declare eligibility for this draft. Plus college football keeps getting better n better in their prospects for the NFL.
2. Ballpeen is correct in our #1 priority. It has to be QB.
a. Again with the Wolf book but believe it or not MH is sticking pretty close to it...you all should read it and get a heads up on what is to come from MH.
High very high on the list of to-do's in building a dynasty franchise is to get two things! A HC and in MH's Czar program that would be the combo of HC/GM...the second is A FRANCHISE QB!!! those are like #1 n #2 in making a great team.
b. In several interviews in getting MH's views on things he has strongly stated that QB was the key into winning. He also has stated how he is almost in disbelief that we won some of the games that we won as there was a total Lack OF AIR ATTACK from us. Basically in Holmgrenese that means - I CAN'T BELIEVE WE WON GAMES WITH QBS THAT SUCKED AS BAD AS THEY DID!
3. In evaluating our LBs...
a. Priority #1 n #2 would be to sign DQ and Roth as both become FA's March 1st.
b. Wimbley has improved greatly in both his run D and in pass rush...stats, stats, stats....what did Wimbley do in his last 4 games where our Defense finally showed up as a UNIT? Asking don't know what he did. What I did see was a lot of moving Wimbley around and I'm talking after the snap...a lot of stunts where Wimbley would be coming up the gut in a blitz forcing the QB to throw to soon.
Can Wimbley be upgraded on? sure everyone can. If we can I hope we do but what I'm trying to say is that most of you don't realize that would not be as easy a task as you think.
c. Bowens...sure hope we keep him at SILB and get rid of Barton or have Barton as a backup and vet leader. But he too can be upgraded on especially due to his age...but he gets this DEFENSE and can read film well and make very good calls! That is tough to replace...McClain btw I would love to be a Brown and would see him at that SILB position.
d. Hall??? he's a special teamer - still too raw to make our team of play - I don't see him as a prospect waiting to happen...unless he gains like 15-20 lbs.
e. Bernard...now this is the guy the coaches are high on. He gets it and his natural moves are there plus he seems to be very coachable.
But when you are talking Defense...Front 7, you should never stop bringing in prospects to get into the flow and possibly upgrade.
DBs...we can use help here
OL...we can use help here RG n RT prospects this might be a good year for some 3rd round help...college LTs not good enough for LT but good enough for RT...JoeT's replacement at Wisconsin might be one we can get in the 3rd...I'm sure JoeT will help him a lot 
Just thinking out loud...I hope we do something like this.
Trade Rogers straight up to the Eagles for Kolb (don't really know Kolb but have heard nothing but good things about him and Heckert would know best and have a relationship with Reid to work out a win win deal!
Trade BQ to Denver for their 2nd round pick or with our 3rd rounder get their worst 1st rounder...in other words get another draft pick...Impact.
Release DA...sorry the guy is going to cost us 9 mil...bag him
Sign David Carr much, much cheaper than DA and much, much better than DA for our Backup!
Well enough thinking out loud for now...time to get ready for guest for playoffs...damn Jets fans are superstitious and since they won they want to keep coming to my house  I've tried to prepare them for being blown out today 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
The Eagles just aren't going to trade Kolb......unless it's our 1st and then some.......sorry I would just rather trade up and get Bradford. I do think however your trade would probably get us McNabb, and I think that's a real possibility.
I agree QB is a high priority. As a matter of fact imo 4 of the top 5 needs we have are on offense.......
QB
RT
RG
CB/S
RB........a big guy to compliment JH (no way do I trust him to tote the rock 25 X a game all season long).
I don't think either unit is good enough to make a playoff run so we should probably just go BPA this year and the next. At that point I guess we could start pin pointing areas that need immediate improvement............right now going after players based on need is like trying plug a hole on the sinking Titanic.
I am of the opinion we are going to have to do something about the QB play even if it means having to trade up in the draft or trading resources to aquire one. Whether they think BQ can still develop or they decide to bring in someone new all together I do not know. What I do know is that as MH alluded to you can not have that poor of QB play and expect to build a winner. It will stunt the growth of everyone around them..........better QB play is a must.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175 |
Beyond having a competent QB at the helm we have to address the defense early and often.
Having a stout defense is the quickest way to turn a team around. If they can’t score it makes winning that much easier, it takes pressure off of the offense allowing them to play loose.
Along with having a good defense we need to continue to build the offensive line. Why stop acquiring talented linemen? Who wants another year with a guy like John St Clair at right tackle? Not me. Give the QB a little time to throw please; smarter QBs need less time to throw so any extra time you can buy them raises the chance for a positive play. Plus better O-line = better running game.
Now I like Harrison and the potential of Davis but we should continue to look for other options. Running backs get hurt. You have to have good backs. I really wanted Shonn Greene in last years draft (3rd rounder) but you can find guys just like him every year. Saying that even though you can find guys like that you have to pick them and not take receivers in the second round. How many receivers have we taken in the second round? Pretty much one every year and we doubled up last year. You don’t have to blow an early pick on a receiver every year; I feel that is the most overrated position in the NFL these days. You need 3 guys that run good routes that can catch and block. You don’t need 6’5” 220 lbs guys that run 4.3 40-yard dashes. Having one is a luxury but in not necessary to win. That said, we need another target other than just Massaquoi.
Figure out the QB thing then DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
The issue I have is that when a team like Philly gets a guy in the late rounds and he doesn't start, the article says he's a "valuable backup." When we draft a guy in a late round and he doesn't start, we question what's wrong with Mangini.
Maybe you need to reword it..when a player is a valuable backup,it means he's contributed and actually played ...
When our late round players don't play and it was said they impressed in practice/TC yeah you have to question whats wrong..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 31
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 31 |
Quote:
The issue I have is that when a team like Philly gets a guy in the late rounds and he doesn't start, the article says he's a "valuable backup." When we draft a guy in a late round and he doesn't start, we question what's wrong with Mangini.
That is because We suck & Philly doesn't suck!
If we can't find guys to even play from our 3rd round - 7th round picks and we suck thats not a good sign on our drafting.
Here or there we will hit on a 4th or 5th but over all man oh man has our drafting sucked for 30 years! Bruce Drennin did our whole drafting since the late 1970's and i'd say 95% of the picks were busts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Let me guess, your a bengals fan 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Quote:
The issue I have is that when a team like Philly gets a guy in the late rounds and he doesn't start, the article says he's a "valuable backup." When we draft a guy in a late round and he doesn't start, we question what's wrong with Mangini.
Maybe you need to reword it..when a player is a valuable backup,it means he's contributed and actually played ...
When our late round players don't play and it was said they impressed in practice/TC yeah you have to question whats wrong..
Good point. And maybe that's where the article is coming from, that we hear about these guys as having potential and playing well in practice, and then they're not even on the active roster for gameday.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
i dont see how we could say no to haden if he's there....he and wright would be a good tandem, need to get that safety as well. pool unfortunately has the noggin issue....
I absolutely agree Choco. My biggest issues this season with the team was the bad corner play and terrible play by St. Clair.
Haden, who seems like a great prospect, would be an awesome fit with our team. He would start right away alongside Wright and it would make a huge difference.
I remember an old poster from this board (I think Diam?) saying that corners are the guys who get you off the field on 3rd down. And it's true. It's a premium position that's hard to fill, and if Haden looks like a guy who can be a number 1 corner (not a "shutdown corner" or whatever, but a number 1 corner) we will be a lot better.
This is a position that I really think we need to upgrade if we expect to compete with the best. And rarely is a good corner available in FA. I'm telling you, one of the biggest reasons for the Jets success this year was Lito Sheppard's improvement/emergence on the team.
Well if we got a guy who could take over Wright's number one spot it will make worlds of difference. Especially with Ryan's dialed up blitzes.
I agree about the importance of a new safety as well, but i'm thinking we might be able to put Mike Adams back to his old position to hold us over next year (if need be)
I do believe that Haden is the guy I want the Browns to draft at 7
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
my only issue with getting Haden is that 5 years from now, if he does well, he will want RECORD breaking money, and thats what I'm not wanting. to lose another 1st round pick.
I'm thinking more long term as far as the Haden pick. If he excels.. he would want it all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Turk, that is some messed up logic right there... You don't want to draft a guy because he MIGHT be really good and then he'd want paid like he's really good?  if he is that good, then he deserves to be paid like he's that good..
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Turk, that is some messed up logic right there... You don't want to draft a guy because he MIGHT be really good and then he'd want paid like he's really good? if he is that good, then he deserves to be paid like he's that good..
I think Turk has figured it out....that has been the Browns business plan at QB....QBs make the most $$$, so we have assured we would never draft a top flight QB who might want record breaking money in 5 years. It all makes sense now.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
If Haden is all that, and if Berry is not available, then he has got to be the pick.
A player that is capable of moving Wright to the #2, and thus McDonald to the Slot, would be a HUGE addition to this defense.
We'd still be hurting desperately at Safety, but we could address that in the 2nd round. Heck, both Pool & Sean Jones were 2nd rounders and both were well enough for quite a while... we could take Haden in 1 and a Safety in 2. That should leave some good RT's or Guards for us in Rnd3, then a couple of developmental LBers and we're on our way.
Couple that with an interesting free agency period and we just might be ablt to sniff at a .500 record next year, which I would be quite happy with.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
If Haden is all that, and if Berry is not available, then he has got to be the pick.
A player that is capable of moving Wright to the #2, and thus McDonald to the Slot, would be a HUGE addition to this defense.
You have seen the light Purp! I don't really know much about Eric Berry, and if he's the determined pick, then that's fine.
But Haden would have a big impact on our defense. Our coverage improves, we get off the field on third downs. Cut down on those 3rd and long conversions, and get our offense back on the field.
For me, I see three positions I really want to upgrade. I want a corner, I want a starting safety (although as i said, that is Mike Adams true position, he's not great but he's much better than Nick Sorensen), and I want a RT/RG.
Obviously the other positions are important, and if there's a real QB who can do it, that's the most important position on the field, but those three positions are on the top of my list to upgrade with real young talent.
But as I've said Kerry Rhodes might be a FA next year, and he's been very hot and cold with the Jets this year. May be he'll want to come play for Rob Ryan and Mangenius. I just don't want to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick for him. I'd definitely be willing to give up a 4th or higher, and I'd consider a 3rd.
Then we could use our 2nd on a RG or RT, whoever will make a bigger impact on our team.
We'd look a lot better next year with that, and there will be no pain in Pool retiring (and I sure hope he does. I hate seeing guys get their brains scrambled, guys like Wayne Cherbet and Welker are my favorite players because they play with no fear, but it just sucks watching a guy keep playing with concussion after concussion. Pool has treated us well, it's time for him to worry about himself)
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9 |
It's only taken 11 years to find someone who knows how to get things done. Build through the draft and use free agency sparingly. Good teams do this. It's about time the Browns followed suit
flight of fantasy
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Quote:
If Haden is all that, and if Berry is not available, then he has got to be the pick.
A player that is capable of moving Wright to the #2, and thus McDonald to the Slot, would be a HUGE addition to this defense.
Exactly why I would love to get Haden, too. It improves 3 spots. He takes over the #1 spot, moves Wright to #2 and McD to nickel. Wright would dominate #2 WRs and McD would excel at covering the slot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
not to mention we would play even more man coverage, and send more blitzes to the QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
If Haden is all that, and if Berry is not available, then he has got to be the pick.
A player that is capable of moving Wright to the #2, and thus McDonald to the Slot, would be a HUGE addition to this defense.
We'd still be hurting desperately at Safety, but we could address that in the 2nd round. Heck, both Pool & Sean Jones were 2nd rounders and both were well enough for quite a while... we could take Haden in 1 and a Safety in 2. That should leave some good RT's or Guards for us in Rnd3, then a couple of developmental LBers and we're on our way.
Couple that with an interesting free agency period and we just might be ablt to sniff at a .500 record next year, which I would be quite happy with.
I agree. Haden is climbing up my mental draft board (though if Berry is gone, he's still even with McClain and Spiller) in terms of what he can do for us.
If you draft Haden, he immediately starts opposite Wright then McDonald can play nickel (where he excelled as a rookie) or Adams can play the Nickel.
I know it's a stretch to automatically ASSume a rookie can play, but if he can, you can man up Wright and Haden then leave the safeties freedom to blitz and disguise coverages, maybe gamble a bit more than we do currently.
We blitzed the hell out of teams last year and paid for it in our poor pass D...if we can improve the pass D and keep bringing the heat, our total D will be much better. Our run D can be average for all I care if our pass D is in the top 5 in the league, cuz that's how you get off the field on 3rd down. (think about how many times in our recent history we had 3rd and medium or 3rd and long and couldn't get off the field)
Last edited by Ammo; 01/20/10 11:47 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
my top3 hasn't changed since late October... 1. Suh 2. Berry 3. Haden Glad to see that others are coming around 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Heckert Has A Good Track Record In
The Draft - Grossi
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
