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What do you think the current market is for Rogers with his contract and age ?
His production value is obviously still there, but really I think that Rubin is a better player to plug in there at NT, and if we could get a first, or a second in a package for Shaun I don't see why not .
If we keep him, I'd love to see him at DE in 2010, nothing else .
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No. Why is it that we want to trade all of our decent players? For what, draft picks? I for one will never understand trading a known, proven commodity for a draft pick that may or may not produce. We know what Rogers provides us, and frankly, I like it. Put Rubin in at NT and put Rogers in at DE, rotating him with Rubin at NT as well. We need to learn when to unleash the beast and let him use his athleticism to be a playmaker. I feel we have tried to make him too much of a space eater at times. JMHO
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If we aren't going to play to his strengths, I say trade him ... his value is high right now. No more NT. If they expect him to continue to play NT, then get what we can for him.
And I am someone who loathes trading away talent for potential. However, in this case, I can see a very strong point for it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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No. Why is it that we want to trade all of our decent players? For what, draft picks? I for one will never understand trading a known, proven commodity for a draft pick that may or may not produce. We know what Rogers provides us, and frankly, I like it. Put Rubin in at NT and put Rogers in at DE, rotating him with Rubin at NT as well. We need to learn when to unleash the beast and let him use his athleticism to be a playmaker. I feel we have tried to make him too much of a space eater at times. JMHO
I agree, which is why I threw that last part in there ..
Only reason for this trade is if someone offered us something we absolutely couldn't refuse ... The rush D was way better without him in there, granted he is pass rush beast and would be beautiful at DE for us with some better LBs in support .
Still, I don't really think you could argue against a trade for, say, a 1st and 3rd or something like that, and we use a package of our picks to end up with three first rounders, and a second . Regardless of the drafting of "unproven" NFL players, we have a great front office in place, and Heckert doesn't tend to miss on his first and second rounders ...
Imagine (I know it isn't likely) having three first rounders in this draft ? We could get a DB, LB, and RT/RG all in the first
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We may have something special here next year. Let's keep our core together.
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My concern is not what his trade value is.. but rather can he play at the NFL level again? I have no idea of how severe the injury is.. I don't know if surgery was done and to what extent if there was. I assume again.. that the injury was to the ankle or the achilles tendon
Lets face it.. Rogers is a very large guy and he puts a lot of weight on that ankle. I've broken the tibula and the fibula at ther same time and my heel has plates and screws in it. I essentially had to teach myself to walk again. Now I'm not saying that he'll have to learn to walk again or that his was as severe as mine.. but the offset is that he is a load.. a 400 pound one.
The primary question is not his draft value.. but rather can he play at the highest level?
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My concern is not what his trade value is.. but rather can he play at the NFL level again? I have no idea of how severe the injury is.. I don't know if surgery was done and to what extent if there was. I assume again.. that the injury was to the ankle or the achilles tendon
Lets face it.. Rogers is a very large guy and he puts a lot of weight on that ankle. I've broken the tibula and the fibula at ther same time and my heel has plates and screws in it. I essentially had to teach myself to walk again. Now I'm not saying that he'll have to learn to walk again or that his was as severe as mine.. but the offset is that he is a load.. a 400 pound one.
The primary question is not his draft value.. but rather can he play at the highest level?
Great points, Saint 
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Any potential trade partner is going to have the same questions.
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My goodness. If we could get a 1st and 3rd for Rogers, treat him to a buffet and personally pay for his ticket out of town.
But on the flip-side, I don't think it's a good idea to discuss trades until we have a concrete defensive philosophy in place and what we want to accomplish with the defense. If, for some reason, Rob Ryan leaves, that means another DC who may no longer wish to run the 3-4, but switch back to the 4-3 and Rogers is suddenly an important piece again.
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His production value is obviously still there, but really I think that Rubin is a better player to plug in there at NT,
Really?
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If, for some reason, Rob Ryan leaves, that means another DC who may no longer wish to run the 3-4, but switch back to the 4-3 and Rogers is suddenly an important piece again.
You'd think Mangini would hire a guy with similar beliefs. Why hire a guy that doesn't agree with the way you want to run the team? Holmgren has said Mangini hires the coaches, Mangini has said he believes the 3-4 is the best defense. I think it's easy to see that Mangini would hire a 3-4 guy as a replacement.
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depends on what you get in return.
a QB?
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No. Why is it that we want to trade all of our decent players?
Yes, seriously, don't make us like the Indians.
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Quote:
What do you think the current market is for Rogers with his contract and age ?
His production value is obviously still there, but really I think that Rubin is a better player to plug in there at NT, and if we could get a first, or a second in a package for Shaun I don't see why not .
If we keep him, I'd love to see him at DE in 2010, nothing else .
He's almost 31, coming off an injury, and due $6.9 million next year. I doubt he has much trade value.
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I doubt the injury is that serious that he can't be 100% at the start of the season. Also considering he is DL , he can play another 4 to 5 good seasons. And........
he is an elite player.
That being said ,any GM worth his salt would listen to offers. If it got out that Rogers was being shopped, he( Rogers) would have a hissy.A team that needed one piece at DL to get to or deeper into the playoffs would be a likely trade partner.
Know any potential trade partners?
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Can anyone tell me what Rogers work ethic was like this season?
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Can anyone tell me what Rogers work ethic was like this season?
Not sure because I wasn't there watching in practice,, but during the games, he seemed very engaged... Appeared to be a high motor guy with a good work ethic..
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I had heard reports that Rogers didn't run Mangini's penalty laps in practice...that he walked them..maybe someone who saw the Browns training camp can confirm this??
My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns.
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I would NOT trade Rogers!!! unless some team offered something ridiculous for him like 2 first round picks...
I see no point in trading one of the best defensive tackles in the game, and also one of the most POWERFUL tackles in the game.
Move him to DE, and watch him do his magic.
RE Rogers
NT Rubin/ Corey Williams
DE Coleman/ Smith
Dont think we should trade Corey Williams either.. in a long tough season, you can never have too many good defensive lineman.
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I had heard reports that Rogers didn't run Mangini's penalty laps in practice...that he walked them..maybe someone who saw the Browns training camp can confirm this??
My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns.
Hadn't heard that, but to be honest, does that sound like something Mangini would tolerate?
Everyone that "supposedly" didn't run penalty laps was talked about publically.. I don't remember hearing that from media or anyone who went to camp.. so I'm not sure you got good info.. dunno for sure..
#GMSTRONG
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I had heard reports that Rogers didn't run Mangini's penalty laps in practice...that he walked them..maybe someone who saw the Browns training camp can confirm this??
My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns.
He's a nose tackle, a very talented and high-motor one at that. Him dogging it in training camp is not my concern and if it wasn't enough to land him in Mangini's very large doghouse then I'm thinking there was a method to the madness. You don't let a D lineman like that go, or let him go cheaply. My opinion is that Rogers stays.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Quote:
I had heard reports that Rogers didn't run Mangini's penalty laps in practice...that he walked them..maybe someone who saw the Browns training camp can confirm this??
My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns.
Hadn't heard that, but to be honest, does that sound like something Mangini would tolerate?
Everyone that "supposedly" didn't run penalty laps was talked about publically.. I don't remember hearing that from media or anyone who went to camp.. so I'm not sure you got good info.. dunno for sure..
Mangini butted heads with defensive tackle Shaun Rogers(notes), who is buying in more now but is hardly completely on board.
With Rogers, the situation is almost amusing. Mangini has a rule that players must run a lap every time they make a mental error. Rookie Alex Mack(notes) has “run so much that he should be in great shape,” Mangini said with a light smile Sunday.
Rogers, who is part goof with his array of one-liners and this gigantic, jewel-encrusted Incredible Hulk medallion that hangs off a long chain around his neck, has taken to “running” laps in a mocking way. He actually walks the laps while pumping his arms hard to simulate running.
“You’re going to have to ask coach Mangini about them laps,” Rogers said.
web page
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Daman...this is one source...I can find more if you need them...
I believe I read it here, on DT from someone who saw practice and witnessed Rogers walking his laps. I just took it as fact..but the search I just did seems to confirm that Rogers walked his laps.
Last edited by Referee2; 01/20/10 02:14 PM.
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I'm not for trading Rodgers yet..what needs to be done is put him at DE..and let him do his damage..at NT he disrupts the LOS ,but sometimes his lack of gap integrity takes him out of the play..I like Rubin at NT ,he is hard to move..he is a natural NT..he stays in his gaps.now Corey is the guy who needs to be moved..and if he can't be,then he should be in the rotation at NT..he is more effective on the inside.
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I'm not for trading Rodgers yet..what needs to be done is put him at DE..and let him do his damage..at NT he disrupts the LOS ,but sometimes his lack of gap integrity takes him out of the play..I like Rubin at NT ,he is hard to move..he is a natural NT..he stays in his gaps.now Corey is the guy who needs to be moved..and if he can't be,then he should be in the rotation at NT..he is more effective on the inside.
I absolutely agree about Williams being more effective on the inside. Williams played much better toward the end of the season when he got to play at Nose. He even said that playing inside was his most comfortable position.
Now if Rogers can be effective on at DE and we can rotate Williams at DE and NT (esp NT in passing situations) we'd get much better use out of him. He isn't stout against the run the way that Rubin is, but Williams is much better at getting after the QB.
Now I hope the same issue that happened to Williams (where he simply isn't a 3-4DE fit) wouldn't happen to Rogers because I do believe that Williams is better at Nose than DE.
If Rogers can't do it, we got two D-Lineman who are pass rushing Nose Tackles. And that's just not quite what we're looking for. Of course with Bowens and my main man Trusnik on the inside, we are better against the run, and it could help hide the undisciplinedness of Shaun Rogers, and what probably would be Williams too.
But if Rogers was successful at DE and we could use Williams as our Pass Rushing NT on like a 3rd and long, we'd definitely be chasing the QB around. Just gotta hope he doesn't scramble for a 1st down because all the D-Lineman are out of position.............
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well geez mac, if you knew the answer, why did you bother asking  Keep in mind, there was some either real or perceived tension between Mangini and Rogers in the very beginning due to a perceived snub by Mangini at some dinner in Cleveland.. That seems to have worked itself out.. well, appears to have anyway.. So, for what it's worth, I think it's safe to say that Rogers performed well in games... As for trading him... hey, he's in his 30's.. and he has value.. and we have a lot of holes to fill and we have what appears to be a guy that can take his place in Rubin.. I wouldn't be hurt or surprised to see him traded..
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Quote:
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I had heard reports that Rogers didn't run Mangini's penalty laps in practice...that he walked them..maybe someone who saw the Browns training camp can confirm this??
My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns.
Hadn't heard that, but to be honest, does that sound like something Mangini would tolerate?
Everyone that "supposedly" didn't run penalty laps was talked about publically.. I don't remember hearing that from media or anyone who went to camp.. so I'm not sure you got good info.. dunno for sure..
He did on both days I was there. It was widely covered in the papers. Every time he did it, he got a good laugh from the gallery.
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well geez mac, if you knew the answer, why did you bother asking
Well geez Daman...you were the one who questioned what I wrote...what I said I had heard about Rogers walking his laps. I simply asked if anyone else heard about it..
I posted this...""I had heard reports that Rogers didn't run Mangini's penalty laps in practice...that he walked them..maybe someone who saw the Browns training camp can confirm this?? My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns.""
...Daman..and you questioned what I wrote with this...""Hadn't heard that, but to be honest, does that sound like something Mangini would tolerate? Everyone that "supposedly" didn't run penalty laps was talked about publically.. I don't remember hearing that from media or anyone who went to camp.. so I'm not sure you got good info.. dunno for sure..""
..Daman..so I it looked up and posted what I found and you say, ""well geez mac, if you knew the answer,why did you bother asking ""
Daman...I was looking for confirmation on what I heard since I did not see training camp this year...so now you have heard it from others as well...again, ""My concern about Rogers is his motivation and commitment to the Browns""
IMO, Rogers doesn't want to work hard...doesn't like it in Cleveland...and it appears he did everything he could to provoke a trade last season. I remember something about him saying he wanted to go back to Lions.
Mr Rogers is #1 on list of TRADE BAIT...
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Well geez Daman...you were the one who questioned what I wrote
Well Geez Mac,, I wasn't questioning you,, I was trying to answer your question..
And, to the best of my knowledge, there wasn't much of a story to it.. Certainly since that time, fences have been mended and there isn't any real need to question anything about Rogers....
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Okay.. I'll do my best to settle it. I WAS at camp on several occasions, Rogers was NOT the only one to take laps.. he DID jog them and he did not run them.. he did make a joke of it.. and I mean everyone on the sidelines laughed. What was EM gonna do?
Quite frankly, I'd like to have Rogers back and healthier than before.
DC's need to game plan for him.
He's that good.
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I thought Williams sucked at nose. He chose gaps and big offensive plays happened because of it.
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Williams played well at Nose. Not sure who you were watching. Rogers?
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I know exactly who I was watching. He chose gaps. He made some plays, but he also got burned way too many times. A 2 gap 3-4 nose cannot choose gaps. It's the same problem Rogers has; he's just better at it than Williams.
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I thought Williams sucked at nose. He chose gaps and big offensive plays happened because of it.
I noticed that he chose gaps too, but so does Shaun Rogers. What I'm thinking is that on 3rd downs he can play nose, and on 1st and 2nd he can be subbed in the rotation.
And remember, Rogers has played the position for mulitple years, and practiced it in camp. Williams had to just step in. If he learns how to play the position, and then is allowed to pass rush from that position on 3rd passing downs, he'll be very effective.
I don't think we're going to get much for Corey Williams in a trade, but the fact is that he's a good pass rusher when he is able to line up closer to the QB (and he simply isn't good against the run no matter where he is). He knows that's what he's the best at, so if he's on our team that's where I think he'd be the most effective. I'm not sure if that's a real football position, but that's what he wants to do. Rush the passer from the NT position where he lines up against center/guard instead of going against guards/tackle.
He can be useful on third and long, and he is good enough to rotate in for us on the D-line as depth/backup
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U mean Williams plays better at Nose than Rogers is what you are saying correct?
I did not see Williams choose a gap to attack. I saw him go str8 on with the offensive lineman, and I saw him get good push for the most part.
I remember last season I was arguing with someone how I thought Rogers should be playing DE anyway, comparing him to how the Ravens use Ngata. Someone argued me up and down that Ngata plays NT, yet last week Ngata was at DE. Both men are very athletic for their size, and it should be used on the outside edge.
I hope Gini' and Ryan see this.
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I have no problem with him at nose on passing situations. And the only reason Rogers is better at it than him is his ridiculous ability. Very few players can hang with Shaun Rogers when it comes to talent, and if he were more disciplined, he would dominate every play.
I like Williams as a depth player, but he isn't a starter and he isn't a nose tackle. Rogers should be at end too.
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http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2010/01/not_to_rush_the_cleveland_brow.htmlNot to rush the Cleveland Browns, but answers are needed on Shaun Rogers By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer January 17, 2010, 5:03AM This week, President Mike Holmgren will lead meetings with the coaches and new General Manager Tom Heckert in a detailed examination of the roster. Most fans know that quarterback will be a major part of the discussions. Heckert and Holmgren both said they were amazed that the Browns won five games where they completed just two, six, seven, eight and 10 passes. But another talking point will be Shaun Rogers. A question will be, "Why did the run defense improve after Rogers was injured and replaced by Ahtyba Rubin?" Here are the raw numbers: In the first 11 games with Rogers at nose tackle, the Browns allowed 155 yards per game rushing. That was near the bottom of the league. In the last five with Rubin, it was 111 yards. With Rogers, they allowed 13 rushing touchdowns in 11 games; with Rubin, it was two in five games. Maybe part of the reason for the improvement was David Bowens' move from outside to inside linebacker to replace the injured Eric Barton. But it also is clear that Rubin made an impact on the run defense. So where does that leave the Browns with Rogers? He is an impressive physical talent. He can block extra points and field goals. He can rush the quarterback. He made the Pro Bowl in 2004, 2005 and 2008. But the current coaching staff believes Rogers has a tendency to "free-lance," not sticking with the scheme and covering the middle of the line. This season, he did not make many big plays -- only 27 tackles and 2.0 sacks in those 11 games. In 2008, it was 73 tackles and 4.5 sacks in 16 games. The Browns finished with 40 sacks, the most since 2001. They had 16 different players with sacks, five with at least 4.0. That fit into the coaches' plan to have a team that brings pressure on the passer from different angles and from different people. It also means they don't have to rely on Rogers to rush the passer -- stopping the run is a higher priority. That didn't work well with Rogers, though, compared with Rubin's impact. I don't know what conclusion the Browns will reach, but I'd bet they consider trading Rogers, who will be 31 in March and still has some value. No doubt, this regime wants to add more draft picks, and also veteran help in the secondary, at receiver and, yes, maybe at quarterback. Rogers could be the one guy who would bring back something of value in a trade. The Browns believe they do have some depth on the defensive line with Rubin at nose tackle, and Robaire Smith and Corey Williams at the ends. They were pleased with the progress of Brian Schaefering. They also have veterans C.J. Mosley and Kenyon Coleman, who were hurt at the end of the season. Finally, defensive coordinator Rob Ryan was using lots of strange sets with five or more linebackers and only one lineman near the end of the season -- and had success with it.
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Didnt you love Williams at the beginning of the season and tell us all how good he was going to be here now that he was healthy ?
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Yes, I did. I was wrong. The problem with Williams is his mindset. He doesn't want to play 3-4 end.
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The Eagles are in dire need of a big body in the middle of their 4-3 Defense. Now that Heckert is here with the priority phoneline straight to Andy Reid I wonder what they might give us for him.
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mcnabb, avant, and a 4th.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Maybe part of the reason for the improvement was David Bowens' move from outside to inside linebacker to replace the injured Eric Barton.
I didn't need a article to point out something I saw..Bowens showed even at his age what a ILB is supposed to do..
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum On Trading Rogers
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