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OK Toad:
What is "your" solution? If you were MH what would you do?
Let's get specific here.
Would you try to trade or cut Anderson if unable to trade?
Would you give Quinn another year and say Mr. Quinn you are my starting QB?
Would you bring in veteran like Chad Pennington? If not Pennington who?
Would you draft Bradford in the first round if available? Would you move up to get him? Likewise Clausen?
Half the fun is playing GM or in this case Pres.
You have stated that in your opinion Quinn may be as good as he will get although you hold out that he may need a little more time to evaluate.
Look we all know the importance of the QB position. MH and Heckert have made it clear that in order to build a winner you have to have a good QB.
So, is it time to punt on BQ and DA? If so then what?
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j/c
surprised neither josh johnson of the bucs or kellen clemens of the jets have been mentioned. both are low cost options.
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small correction, holmgren said he loved harrison as a player.
Then, in that case, I stand corrected.
Thank you. 
#gmstrong
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Quote:
OK Toad:
What is "your" solution?
I can answer that for Toad with two words:
Jason. Campbell.
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Quinn needs to start.. I see no reason why he can't be the guy.. Accuracy on the deep ball is the only issue, but other than that.. He's a fighter.
Skittishness in the face of pressure, accuracy on intermediate routes, and decision making are also issues.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
OK Toad:
What is "your" solution? If you were MH what would you do?
Let's get specific here.
Would you try to trade or cut Anderson if unable to trade?
Would you give Quinn another year and say Mr. Quinn you are my starting QB?
Would you bring in veteran like Chad Pennington? If not Pennington who?
Would you draft Bradford in the first round if available? Would you move up to get him? Likewise Clausen?
Half the fun is playing GM or in this case Pres.
You have stated that in your opinion Quinn may be as good as he will get although you hold out that he may need a little more time to evaluate.
Look we all know the importance of the QB position. MH and Heckert have made it clear that in order to build a winner you have to have a good QB.
So, is it time to punt on BQ and DA? If so then what?
Going on the assumption that I am making the call and have to choose, I'd do the following...........
Cut Anderson. Nobody is going to take on his contract. I wouldn't ask him to restructure because that'd be idiotic. He won't take a paycut so the Browns can choose where he's going to be traded to. He'll want to be released so he can choose his own path.
Yes, I take Bradford if he's there. Quinn gets one more year as the starter, but if he doesn't show great improvement he gets benched and his career here is over.
If Bradford isn't there I don't take Clausen. I like his tools. I hate his attitude and personality. That means I go the way of Pennington or Collins then try and find a drafted QB in next year's draft if Quinn doesn't pan out.
Now, would I trade up for Bradford? No. I'm not giving up next year's #1 for that right.
This team isn't one QB away from being great. If I don't get the guy I really want, I'm not going to mortgage the future or take a player I don't really like just because. If I'm sticking with the 3-4 I'm looking at someone like McClain or Bryant with my pick, not Clausen. I also wouldn't take someone like McCoy in the 2nd, as I believe his arm is going to be exposed at the combine, much like Tebow's has been exposed this past week. I draft to help the team and worry about the QB position next year in the draft.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Good plan. I'd have to agree.
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I agree with everything besides the taking Bradford part. I want nothing to do with any of these spread QB's.
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Many spread QB's look better because their tools aren't really there, like Tebow. I've seen enough of Bradford when he takes snaps from under center to be comfortable with him as a pro prospect.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I won't tell you that right now," Holmgren said Wednesday on the Dan Patrick Show. "They're both here right now. We'll see how it goes. I'm not a big believer in that competition stuff. We better make up our mind before we go to camp and then put our resources into one guy."
Ehhhh..this really isn't going to take that long..it won't be as drawn out as some think..and I suspect he will already have a plan in place right before the draft..
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I agree with that as well.
What I don't agree with is what some are saying that he already knows and has made determinations on either of our guys based on film evaluations. He is one bass ass if he can so dilligently work on the hirings and firings as he has done and still have enough time to have evaluated our quarterbacks to the point he's made any strong determinations.
I'm sure he does have plan B,C and D already in place depending on what he finds in his evaluations. I just don't think he's there yet. Just because the QB issue is the biggest issue on this board doesn't mean that as soon as he was hired he immediately jumped in fully focused on and determined to delve into the who his starting QB will be. He had bigger fish to fry. I do believe he immediately jumped in fully focused on and determined to delve into the prospects in forming his front office and took some time here and there to look at some film and will continue to do so.
He said early the QB issue will be determined not by one man but by the group. It took several weeks to get the group in place. Heckert, who hasn't had to concern himself with all that is on Holmgren's plate has likely spent a lot more time looking at the QB's. But even he's been busy hiring and firing from his position.
I really believe these guys are focused on getting the organization set and solid so they can spend the time needed to prepare for free agency and the draft. As that comes together they'll spend more time looking at the players.
I'm saying Holmgren has not been evaluating players in the month he's been on the job. He's had much bigger fish to fry. That's not saying he hasn't taken a minute towards the players, just that except for a few obvious plus players and minus players he's been too busy to get in depth with all that to this point.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Skittishness in the face of pressure, accuracy on intermediate routes, and decision making are also issues.
You are right about Quinn but how could it be otherwise when his #1 WR is not predictable...he has no real time to become familar with the WRs or the Oline because of not enough time in pre season and he is stilll learning. Quinn is doing what new QBs always do... first he looks good then he gets sacked and the defense throws some new pass rush in and he is completely lost...throws ints or losses yards. It takes time and timing to become good.
Still we have to ask the management to help this with player evaluation and development something we have lacked. Quinn has advantages that Couch didn't have...a running game, an Oline and now a QB evaluator that can help him get better. Look at how Frye improved.
I think the best QB I saw in this years draft is Clausen for pure skills but like you said maybe too much of a personality...but isn't that part of being a QB talent? The confidence seems too much for most of us. I have not seen Bradford because of his injury. Pike reminds me of Anderson. Really not much there this year so why not stick with Quinn for awhile until something turns up?
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Cut Anderson. Nobody is going to take on his contract. I wouldn't ask him to restructure because that'd be idiotic. He won't take a paycut so the Browns can choose where he's going to be traded to. He'll want to be released so he can choose his own path.
I agree 100%.
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Yes, I take Bradford if he's there.
Personally I prefer Mccoy, I don't seem to get the love fest for Bradford with the shoulder injury. We know how long it will take for an NFL type hit to agrivate that injury don't we?
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Quinn gets one more year as the starter, but if he doesn't show great improvement he gets benched and his career here is over.
Again I agreee 100%. Damd Toad we are having a meeting of the minds. But of coarse my mind is one of a drunkard ( as you have stated) so what's your excuss?
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If Bradford isn't there I don't take Clausen.
Again we agree, are you drinking this evening? 
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Now, would I trade up for Bradford? No. I'm not giving up next year's #1 for that right.
Again we agree, epecially for a guy that did zilch this season and has an injured wing!
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This team isn't one QB away from being great.
Again we agree. Have a drink on me! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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To add to that ....
Holmgren has been eyeballing the situation from afar since at least the end of October.He has prolly watched some games and maybe even a little film. He has also prolly had some discussions with the coaches about the QB situation.
That being said I'll bet he will want to see alot of film and more importantly watch all three QBs drop back and throw in OTAs before the free agency period begins in March before making any decision.He has about a month to make an evaluation. A month is really not that much time....
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I don't know what all the mystery is... Look at Holmgren's past and you will know what HE wants to do..
He will keep Quinn and then develop a late round QB if Quinn does not work out.
ie Dan Levourz (sp?) would be my pick in about round 5-6.
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Toad:
I have seen very little of Bradford on film. Do you have any good links to film on him?
He is not going to be able to throw at the combine. His goal is to be able to throw at his pro day.
I am just not ready to give up on Quinn, but I do have concerns about him. I just want to see what he can do when he is named the starter before camp. Works in a familiar offense instead have having to learn a new one every year. Has time to develop the chemistry and timing with his receivers, and has a legit run game.
If the Browns truly incorporate a form of the WCO Quinn needs weapons who can catch and get YAC. A real TE receiver and runners like Harrison and Cribbs who can catch and run.
From what I have seen of Quinn he does seem to fit that kind of "use the pass as run offense". It features the type of throws that he seems most comfortable throwing.
If MH and Heckert believe Bradford is the man I don't have a problem drafting him if available at the seven pick. He does not seem worth the risk to trade up a couple picks. The guy I personally covet in this draft is McClain.
He just shows up on film of every game he plays. He has all the tools and leadership qualities we sorely lack in the middle of our defense. I like Berry and Haden. But it appears Berry will be gone. McClain just seems like one of those guys who will be ready to go and make plays from day one.
Of course the Browns need to find a solution at QB. No doubt Anderson will be gone. The Browns will have to make a move at the QB position. But you know for the first time in many moons I feel confident in the new organization. We finally have the right people and structure in place to make intelligent, informed, and collective decisions.
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Use Youtube for Bradford vids.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quinn needs to start.. I see no reason why he can't be the guy.. Accuracy on the deep ball is the only issue, but other than that.. He's a fighter.
I was thinking "a ball" was the issue.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, I take Bradford if he's there.
Personally I prefer Mccoy, I don't seem to get the love fest for Bradford with the shoulder injury. We know how long it will take for an NFL type hit to agrivate that injury don't we?
Didn't McCoy get knocked out of the title game with a shoulder injury? How long would it take for an NFL hit to aggravate his? Longer?
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I don't even care about the soldier. I hate McCoy as a prospect.
I've been watching a lot of Bradford from '08 lately. I'm starting to come around on him.
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Toad:
Just spent the last 45 minutes watching what I could find on Bradford. As with most highlights films you can only see so much.
Most of the throws are from the shotgun. Most show very little pressure and the receivers are wide open.
Of course he makes the connections. What is apparent is terrific footwork and good accuracy. Meaning the receivers although very open are hit in stride. On a few of the plays he does face pressure and handles it very well. Either by sliding around in the pocket or rolling and still delivering the ball accurately and on time.
He does have a quick delivery. Reminds me a little of Jake Plummer and some of Marino.
He is impressive from the little that can be seen. I would love to get coaches tape on him and just watch a ton of film under all kinds of conditions.
From what is available to see on Youtube you have to put him into the mix. I'm sure the Browns will look at him closely. It will be interesting to see if they bring him in for a private workouts.
We have plenty of areas to address. And although I really like McClain alot I would understand if MH and the management team decide to pick Bradford. I still would like to see what Quinn could do with some weapons around him and the reps to develop the necessary chemistry. My reasons are the investment in Quinn and the poor manner in which he has been handled. Most QB's need at least three years to really get a fair evaluation. With that being stated if MH and company decide to go the Bradford route I would trust their judgement that they have seen what they need to see of Quinn.
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j/c
I don't see a valid QB option in this draft really. Not unless we trade down and even at that, I don't really see a viable option.
What would appear most logical to me is as follows.........
DA certainly isn't a WCO QB. So DA is gone. You bring in a veteran as a band-aid and keep Quinn. Beef up your secondary and WR corp and see how the QB situation works out this year and address it next year.
I hate coming to that conclusion because we have so many draft picks with which to barter with to move around. But I really don't see anybody better than Quinn in this draft class and see it as a wasted effort to try to address it via the draft this year.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Glad to read you acknowledge and understand highlights are just that. Many on this board see highlights and form opinions that certain players are better than they really are. Quinn was a product of that. So having cleared that out of the way, you can see he has good footwork, that he has a lightning-quick release, that he throws a very tight spiral, and that he's extremely accurate. It should be noted that while more than half of his snaps were out of the gun, he did take snaps from center during his true freshman year, so he has experience with it, not just as much as we would like.
What you can't see on film is his personality. He's a coaches dream in that regard, and very much the antithesis of Clausen.
My biggest concern is going to be the shoulder, but to this point, James Andrews has given thumbs up on the surgery and his progress.
PITT, Bradford and Clausen are both better than Quinn, who came when we bought into the bill-of-goods. Savage was no QB evaluator, as he favored three non-winners in Frye, Russell, and then Quinn.
Lucky us. 
I'd take either of those QB's over Quinn in a heartbeat. However, with the highest pick I'd take Bradford over Clausen and might not consider Clausen at all.
The thing that's got my sarcastic side going is the possibility of Bradford, who is Cherokee, going to the Redskins. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My concerns with Bradford are, in order, shoulder, spread offense, and arm strength. I'm really not concerned about his arm, but it isn't a strong point for him.
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Nope, arm strength isn't. If you don't have a strong arm, you better have elite accuracy, which is why I don't worry about Bradford's arm. The other component is being able to get the ball where it needs to go in bad weather if the QB plays outdoors. Because he throws a very tight spiral, his lack of elite arm strength won't cause him to be less effective outdoors.
Payton Manning is always the perfect example I use when discussing this topic. As great as he is, he does throw a wobbly ball by NFL standards. That isn't a problem in his dome, but when he's asked to go outdoors in December he's often struggled.
I happen to believe Bradford would be perfect for what we're going to be running here. Some can make a strong case for Clausen, but it's really only a difference in personality as far as I'm concerned.
If Andrews puts the stamp of approval on Bradford I won't worry about his shoulder. It was still hurt when he got hurt again, as they didn't give him enough time to heal. The original injury wasn't a devastating separation so this isn't the same situation as Pennington has found himself in.
In many ways, Bradford IS Bernie Kosar. I believe he's taken enough snaps from under center to make a rather simple transition.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I know his shoulder got banged up pretty good at one point.. Having made a horrible judgement call on Drew Brees, I'm really hesitant to say he can't work out because of that injury..
So I'm wondering, do you think his shoulder is a real concern? I mean so much so that you pass on him if he's there when we pick...
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Nobody made a "horrible judgment call" on Brees. Unlike where most guys with rebuilt shoulders needed a couple of pins to hold the socket together as it heals, Brees required pins in the ENTIRE shoulder. It had never been done before, so nobody knew what would happen. The Saints made the big gamble and it paid off.
As for Bradford, if I was worried about his shoulder I probably wouldn't have said I'm not worried about his shoulder. 
Now granted, I'm going on faith because James Andrews is the Yoda of his world, and he's given the A-OK on Bradford to this point. If he hits a couple of snags in his rehab then I may start to get concerned.
It's important to remember that his shoulder wasn't healed when he got hurt again. That's a vital consideration.
Frankly, I'm hoping that the Redskins elect to go in another direction because of his shoulder, so that we can land him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Nobody made a "horrible judgment call" on Brees.
LOL Yeah, I guess I should have said,, in hindsight, I made a horrible judgement call,,,,,, 
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As for Bradford, if I was worried about his shoulder I probably wouldn't have said I'm not worried about his shoulder.
I just wanted to hear it again...LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh, in case you were interested, I'm not worried about Bradford's shoulder
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Whew,, Good to know
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Toad:
Glad that you mentioned something about Bradford's mental make up.
Looking at this year Super Bowl Manning and Brees are perfect examples of the importance of character.
You have to have skill but work ethic, leadership, and decision making are prime factors in the evaluation of QB's.
It is no accident that Manning, Brees, Brady and other great players succeed. They have skill but they simply out work everyone and lead by example.
We don't get the opportunity to talk to these young men and are dependent on the word of others.
I have heard Todd McShay say that he has a real problem with the "personality" of Clausen.
I have only heard great things about the worth ethic of Brady Quinn. That is part of the reason why I want to give him the benefit of a full and fair evaluation.
I have a problem with Quinn's consistency with accuracy. But, I do not lay all the blame on him. He has had to learn a new offense every year. His receivers have changed. Most are very young and he has had little opportunity to develop the necessary timing so critical for success. Basically he has had to deal with his own inexperience, the inexperience of others and the lack of play makers around him. That is tough sledding for a QB.
That is why it so important to have the right management team in place. Head Coaches are often forced into having short term views. Having MH, Heckert, and Mangini to make collaborative decisions will help this process of evaluation.
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I don't see a valid QB option in this draft really. Not unless we trade down and even at that, I don't really see a viable option.
I said two months ago none of these QB's are top ten material to me..and I stand by that ..and I'm not even touting Bradford because of his arm and lack of mobility..and he may not be durable ..if I had to draft a QB,I take one in the later rounds..
I hate coming to that conclusion because we have so many draft picks with which to barter with to move around. But I really don't see anybody better than Quinn in this draft class and see it as a wasted effort to try to address it via the draft this year.
I could debate that..there are several with better accuracy.. but I still have not seen one that intrigues me on another level.. the reality is the Browns still need a FA to come in and do his thing for a year..I'd rather fix the holes and concentrate on a QB next year..we don't have a #1 WR to go to..a big back or a right side of the line..those are things a QB needs to succeed..
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Quote:
and I'm not even touting Bradford because of his arm and lack of mobility..
What lack of mobility? Bradford isn't a stiff in the pocket. He can move around pretty well. By NFL standards, it's at least adequate and he can throw well on the run. He's also shown he can pull the ball down and run for a first down.
There isn't a lack of mobility with Bradford.
There are 3 questions with Bradford:
1) That shoulder injury (not an injury history)
2) Offensive scheme
3) Average arm strength
For a WCO scheme, his arm becomes much less of an issue. It's not as though he has a weak arm by NFL standards. It's no stronger or weaker than Quinn's, and Quinn has enough arm, he just doesn't know where it's going, unlike Bradford who has elite accuracy.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think there is a good chance we select Bradford assuming he is there and his shoulder is sound.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'm going to rephrase my comment about his mobility...he stays planted too long ..while he doesn't have to dance around like a skittish Garcia  ..he doesn't move enough for me..perhaps his Oline made him feel secure but that won't be the case in the pros..he's got to move around to avoid taking big hits..
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren doesn't expect both
Anderson and Quinn to be in camp
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