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Ohio's rail plans back on track
With $400 million in funding, trains could link Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati by 2012
Friday, January 29, 2010 3:11 AM
By James Nash

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH


Sometime in 2012, people should be able to board a train in Columbus and get to either Cincinnati or Cleveland in about three hours for $20, state officials said yesterday after the Obama administration announced that Ohio was getting $400 million to relaunch passenger rail service.

Gov. Ted Strickland and other state leaders were giddy over the announcement, even though the sum represents only about three-quarters of the money Amtrak estimated that Ohio needs to link Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati with passenger trains.

Columbus Mayor Michael B. Coleman said that by linking a rail station near the Convention Center to other cities, the 265-mile trans-Ohio route will reinvigorate his controversial plan for light rail in Columbus. Coleman's request last year for $200 million in federal stimulus dollars for a line connecting Polaris and Downtown was rejected.

Ohio's trains will max out at 79 mph, with an average speed of about 39 mph along the entire route when stops are counted. Four trains a day are planned, although a schedule has not been finalized.

The Midwest's priciest new rail project will connect Chicago to St. Louis with trains running as fast as 110 mph for $1.1 billion.

Both projects, and 27 others, will share $8 billion in stimulus money that the Obama administration earmarked for high-speed rail, the White House announced yesterday.

Strickland said he was elated with Ohio's portion, which would link the state's three largest cities (and Dayton) by passenger train for the first time since 1971.

"Today, we reclaim our passenger rail legacy in Ohio," Strickland said. "Today, we are letting our history serve our future."

The governor said restarting passenger rail in Ohio would create 8,000 to 11,000 jobs while stimulating the state's economy to the tune of $1.2 billion. He also said that by putting 500,000 people in trains rather than cars each year, the service would save 9 million gallons of gasoline.

Skeptics, however, said the trains are as likely to be a government boondoggle as a transportation miracle.

"What happens when the stimulus money runs out?" asked former U.S. Rep. John Kasich, the Republican candidate for governor this year. "Is this another train to nowhere, where we create a program using stimulus money and we don't have any money to run it?"

Kasich said that if the state is going to spend $400 million for transportation, he would prefer it be for road and bridge projects.

Ohio Senate President Bill M. Harris, R-Ashland, said he also is concerned about operating the system and is worried that states will have to invest more money than planned if ridership projections fall short.

Amtrak estimated that Ohio would need to spend $17 million a year to subsidize rail service.

State officials couldn't say yesterday where that money would come from, although Strickland repeatedly characterized it as a "modest" amount. Strickland and his transportation director, Jolene Molitoris, suggested that the state could defray at least part of that by selling advertising on the trains.

"We have a record of being very creative and frugal," Molitoris said. "We believe that we can do this."

Ohio's route ultimately will be linked to the overall Midwest corridor that also is receiving part of the $8 billion, allowing Ohioans to shoot off the 3-C corridor and travel west to Chicago or east to New York via rail, said Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.

Brown called the $400 million being handed to Ohio "perhaps the most important announcement" in terms of significance to the state that President Barack Obama has made since taking office. "This is an historic investment" that will "create jobs and economic opportunity," Brown said.

Columbus is the second-largest city in the country, after Phoenix, without passenger rail service. When the 3-C route launches, which officials said should come by the fall of 2012, people will be able to travel by train from Columbus to most of the rest of the country. Some of the routes will be circuitous, however: Chicago-bound passengers will have to get there via Cincinnati or Cleveland.

Coleman said Columbus' rail station likely will be near the Convention Center.

"(Passengers) will be within walking distance of all of the exciting things we have going on in our Downtown," the mayor said.

State officials and U.S. Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, who joined Strickland in announcing Ohio's share of the rail money, characterized the planned service as "high-speed rail." But critics have noted that the estimated 6 1/2-hour travel time from Cleveland to Cincinnati is equivalent to, if not longer than, the time it takes to cross the state by car.

Molitoris defended the "high-speed" label.

"It's high speed in the intercity," she said, referring to the stretches between cities. "This is the foundation for what we will connect and build on service already in Cleveland and Toledo. This is only the beginning."

Ohio rail advocates say the medium-speed rail is the first step toward faster service that would cost $1.53 billion. The faster trains, with speeds reaching 110 mph, would attract more than three times as many passengers, according to the Amtrak study.

Dispatch reporters Jonathan Riskind, Jim Siegel and Mark Niquette contributed to this story.

jnash@dispatch.com



Hmmph.. 3 hours?? My drive time from Columbus to my tailgating spot for game days is 2 hours and 20 minutes. I was quite interested in a way to ride up to games and back.. I have no problem with the 20 dollar part of it.. but there is no way I'd be able to bring all my tailgate stuff.. my grill, cooler etc..

I guess the one way I'd be interested would be for night games.. ride up, get a room at the Garden Inn across from the Jake, get dinner at Paninis, then walk down 9th to the game. Stay that night and catch the train back after breakfast.

Your thoughts?

Not sure I'd ever use it.. But I have to admit, it might be fun to try.. Not sure.. I mean if they have a dining car or a bar car or something like that, could be a good party run...LOL

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Ohio's trains will max out at 79 mph, with an average speed of about 39 mph along the entire route when stops are counted. Four trains a day are planned, although a schedule has not been finalized.

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Hope they aren't gonna call it a High Speed Rail Line....LOL

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"What happens when the stimulus money runs out?" asked former U.S. Rep. John Kasich, the Republican candidate for governor this year. "Is this another train to nowhere, where we create a program using stimulus money and we don't have any money to run it?"

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I have a thought, make the people that use it pay more than $20 if that's what it takes to run it. Why should the government subsidize passenger train travel? or air travel? while they tax the crap out of vehicle travel...

j/c

3 hours? So what's the point? May as well fill the gas tank and drive.

I agree Lyok, I think this is a stupid waste of money. Why are people going to spend money to make a a trip on a train that is going to take a hlaf hour longer than it takes to make the drive. I think this 400 mill is being poured down the drain to a failing plan.

Now if it was a bullet train like some of the things they have in the Orient then it would be cool and I think useful.

KING

I absolutely hate driving so if I had to sacrifice a half an hour then I'd do it in a heartbeat ( heck it is another half hour of nap time ) . I used to love riding the trains in Europe when I was stationed there . That being said we Americans have a love affair with the automobile that people from other countries just don't share .

Just to add...when you drive you also have to pay parking, deal with rush hour traffic, don't have the ability to have a drink(legally)....I can see some positives. I would use it to go visit my brother in CBus. I would prefer a high speed. There are definitely certain situations I can see where it can have its advantages. But the issue I see is....are there enough people going be able to use it enough to keep it viable. I certainly won't be using it enough to do so...

That's my problem with it as well.

I could see rail service to a city like NYC that has an established public transit system ..... but rolling into Cleveland .... then taking a cab or renting a car ..... it wuld woind up being cheaper to drive, even with the government sponsored rate of $20.

Not to mention that 1 must first get to the rail hub ..... potentially adding on additional costs .......

I'll just drive, thank you very much.

Actually, I was curious to see what you'd say.. no YTown service?

I agree to a point. I believe the whole point is to have these junctions in a somewhat central area so many things should be either in walking distance or have cab or bus transportation available in order to get to. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Is it ideal....well it is to the city planners and the officials approving this....but I say no it isn't but it isn't exactly hell either.

I can see the high speed...while far costlier...being far more successful....But I think that one would have to skip a lot of stops to do so...so in a way you still need that one that has a lot of stops along the way...But with the high speed you get down to about an hour and that can be considered a reasonable commute for some people.

As far as the money is concerned....I don't exactly think it is really going to spur allot of jobs. Most of them it does bring about will most likely be temporary construction. And I agree that the money probably could be going to better use...

It's a start, but that 39mph average is going to have to be upgraded.


39MHP from Cleveland to Cincy isn't going to attract many riders.

I know around here there is serious talk of a maglev to run from Atl to Chattanooga...to connect the airports to relieve congestion at Hartsfield and utilize our under utilized airport....a nice airport by the way.

They say the maglev could make express runs, airport to airport in about 35-40 minutes...about a 110 mile run....I know they have already received grants in the millions for the feasibility study to determine route, cost, etc..

As someone else alluded to - I can see having a high speed system from, say, Columbus to Chicago, or Columbus to NYC - or even DC - with minimal stops on the way. Something that would save the users time AND money.

What this system would be/do is, assuming the numbers are correct - it is expecting an average of 1370 riders per day. Good luck with that.

People that live in Cleveland don't work in Columbus (not many anyway) Same can be said of any 2 city combo on the list. And even for the very few that do - they need a train at 7 in the morning, and 5:30 in the evening - and God hope they don't have to work late.

But, most of those people probably wouldn't be working within walking distance of the train station - so they get a cab for $20. Then they need a cab from work to the station for another $20. Add in the train ticket, and it's $80 a day for transportation to and from work.

Okay, they aren't doing it for the workers - we all know that. The work week riders would be next to nothing. Weekends, with the casinos coming - I can see friday evenings and saturday, probably sunday - being decent. But not enough to support the system, let alone pay for employees.


Just another waste of money.

As long as they build it to suit faster trains in the future, and this isn't just a stop-gap measure, then it could be money well spent. But that is highly dependent on the infrastructure being put in place for future plans, not just building it because Amtrak did a study, and said people want this.

Same thing happens in Manhattan when I was working there. People didn't want to miss that last train! I was staying in the city so I didn't have to worry about it.

Well I was looking at it in the light of todays job market.

If say you live in Cleveland. And your once high paying job is gone. Your spouse still has a good job and doing well with it. The high speed line definitely gives some options...Heck even the "medium speed" line gives you some options for a job in Columbus or Cincinnati. I know someone who is currently commuting from Cleveland to DC. He stays the week or longer in DC and comes home on the weekend.

Now if you can't find that job you need in Cleveland....you can still take that job in CBus...your spouse can keep that good job...Your family doesn't have to uproot itself. And you don't have to put all that mileage onto your car which completely destroys its value.

Is it a perfect and wonderful situation???? No...infact it sort of sucks...but you do what you have to do for your family. Mothers and fathers in the military are stationed abroad all the time for long periods of time...so it is nothing new. And when things start to get better you can make better and well informed decisions on whether to move the family or not.

I am not saying this is what everyone can or should do. But when thinking about the train as a commuter vehicle...I thought of my friend and I can see its use and how valuable it could be.

But I do agree that I really do not know if this is fiscally viable and I figure there are better things to spend the money on...

I would bet that the only way to make it really fiscally viable is if it is high speed and also carries freight..... much like the Chunnel Train. It relies on freight to make it profitable.

Absolutely

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Gov. Ted Strickland and other state leaders were giddy over the announcement,

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*sigh*

Almost daily I ask myself how I got fooled by this clown and voted for him.

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I would bet that the only way to make it really fiscally viable is if it is high speed and also carries freight..... much like the Chunnel Train. It relies on freight to make it profitable.

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Did I miss something. I thought all along that it was supposed to be a HI SPEED train (maglev) and now it doesn't look like that's anywhere near what it's going to be.

Upon further review, I don't know why we'd spend this money on something that is more like a toy than something that is actually needed..

This past summer I took the family up to Canada for vacation, and to avoid a 20 hour drive we took a 22 hour train ride. While that may sound like a bad trade off it depends on if you are the only one driving LOL We played games, slept, took pictures and admired the scenery along the way. We would definitely do it again, with a few minor changes.

The downside for our trip was that we caught our train at 1am or so in Cincy, and our final destination was 4am in Fargo N.D. Not exactly times I would choose, but it was doable. We ate on the train with the exception of lunch in Chicago during our layover. I did not book far enough in advance to get a bedroom for the family, next time I will do that to make it even more comfortable and private.

Now I would use the Ohio line on trips to visit my mom back in Cleveland. Traffic in Cincy or Cbus is horrible if you are unlucky enough not to miss it, plus the added time with the kids would be nice.

I see your point Lex... and for a family vacation type thing like you described,, that sounds like a hoot.. My brother won't get on an airplane.. won't do it... He lives in Myrtle Beach and when he comes up to Ohio to visit,, He takes the train to Connelsville, PA and his daughter drives him to my place...

When he goes to Vegas, you guessed it,, Train.. He just sits in the bar car and dining car most of the trip and gets hammered...LOL

So for something like that.. makes perfect sense,, I'd actually like to try that someday..

But this thing between Cinci, Col and Cleveland,, Sorry,, to me it's $400 million dollars that if you are going to spend it, There has to be a better way..

I see where it may create jobs in Ohio for a couple of years while it's being built,, that's great.. Except I don't think the Trains themselves, or the cars, or the rail or any product associated with it is made in OHio.. That tells me that more jobs will be created elsewhere.. We need them right here in Ohio..

So if we are going to spend that money (and I question if we should) then I'd rather find a way to help small business in Ohio.. they will hire if they can get funding to grow... And those jobs aren't likely to go away in a couple of years

Ok, I actually just skimmed the article now - this thing IS RTA's Blue Line.

Top Speed of 79mph, with an average speed of 39mpg.

Furthermore: "Amtrak estimated that Ohio would need to spend $17 million a year to subsidize rail service."

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State officials couldn't say yesterday where that money would come from, although Strickland repeatedly characterized it as a "modest" amount. Strickland and his transportation director, Jolene Molitoris, suggested that the state could defray at least part of that by selling advertising on the trains.

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So, we are being handed $400 Million so that we can lose an additional $20Million per year.... in a state where we already cannot afford all of our spending!?!!


THIS IS A COMPLETLY DISGUSTING WASTE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS!!

But by giving the money the Feds can claim they saved or created 30,000 jobs.

If they are not going to do it right, don't do it at all.

39mhp average with station time is a joke.

You might as well take a rickshaw to Cincy.

A coalition of federal and state government workers (and politicians) using billions of taxpayer dollars to run a nationwide network of commuter railways ... what could possibly go wrong?

I don't think we need to build a train that no one will ride. I would however, consider it from Columbus to Cleveland if it dropped me off at CBS within a hour of gametime.

This sounds more like a lobbyist got to someone somehow,....

From what I've heard about this thing on the radio, I'd have to say it's a pretty lame idea.

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From what I've heard about this thing on the radio, I'd have to say it's a pretty lame idea.

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Lame is too nice a term for what this is.. It's just a flat out waste of money..

I can see this as worthwhile. $20 is cheaper than paying for gas from here to Cbus. And if they make a move to high-speed in the future---then all the better.

I hope this plan works out.

edit: Looking at the map---a high-speed rail between CBus/Cleveland and Chicago would be a great investment.

It will be a waste of money. It will not be self sufficent therefore we will sibsidize every year with our tax dollars. It sounds good remember how unprofitable Amtrak is.

web page

Joe Hallett commentary: This train is bound for an inglorious fate, and that's too bad
Sunday, February 7, 2010 3:31 AM
By Joe Hallett

The horn, barely audible in the distance, was a soothing, omnipresent companion.

In my small northwestern Ohio farm town, trains brought downtown traffic to a stop about 120 times a day as the gates came down on both sides of the New York Central line. Townsfolk regarded the trains as part of the community, even though the quaint station in Railroad Park had closed not long after World War II and you had to drive to Toledo to board a train bound for New York or Chicago.

Every year, there was at least one foolhardy motorist who would dare a train at one of the town's four crossings and lose. For parents, crossing the tracks was an integral part of their children's driver's training.

What I remember as a kid is standing at the downtown crossing waving to the engineer, counting the freight cars, usually 120 or more, and then waving to the man in the caboose. What I remember more is falling asleep to the horn fading into the night.

I grew up loving trains and came to appreciate them more as an adult after riding the bullet train from Tokyo to Kyoto, the comfortable Acela Express from New York to Washington, subways in Paris and Rome, and the charming commuter train in Salt Lake City.

Every trip ended with the same sentiment: I wish we had this in Ohio.

And now, apparently, we will -- or at least some form of it. The federal government is bestowing upon Ohio $400 million in stimulus funding for passenger-rail service linking Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Dayton.

At a Jan. 28 Statehouse news conference, Gov. Ted Strickland was practically giddy over the news. And state transportation director Jolene Molitoris all but donned a cheerleading outfit and did back flips.

It would have been easy -- indeed desirable -- to get caught up in the euphoria but for one detail: This is not going to work.

Never mind, if you can, the money. The federal government doesn't have the $400 million. More than likely, our children and theirs will end up paying back the Chinese for the loan. And Ohio, with an impending $7 billion hole in the next two-year budget, can hardly afford the $17 million annual subsidy to operate the rail system.

From the start, the details have been squishy. Last March, the Ohio Department of Transportation said the project would cost $250 million. Several months later, the estimate was revised to $400 million. And after applying for $564 million in stimulus funding, ODOT now says $400 million will do the job.

Amtrak's self-serving estimate that 478,000 passengers a year will ride the Ohio trains, and Strickland's projection that restarting passenger-rail service will create at least 8,000 jobs and pour $1.2 billion into the state's economy are not grounded in exhaustive studies. More important than the boast that 6 million people live within 15 miles of the so-called 3C Corridor is how many live within 15 miles of those three train stations.

That's the rub. People will take the train if it is convenient and economical. As currently planned, this system is neither.

The four trains traveling the 3C corridor will average 39 mph, topping out at 79. Promoters tantalizing the prospect of 120-mph bullet trains eventually speeding along the corridor rarely mention that to accommodate those trains the tracks would have to be replaced.

The estimated $36 to $50 roundtrip ticket between Columbus and Cleveland or Cincinnati seems reasonable until you factor in the inevitable $120 hotel bill. The way the train schedules are structured, you could not travel to a Reds, Bengals, Indians or Browns game and return the same day. Ditto for Clevelanders and Cincinnatians taking the train to a Buckeyes football game.

The schedule also is not conducive for business travelers. Under a typical scenario, someone boarding the train in Cleveland would spend roughly 13 hours and 45 minutes away from home, with a maximum of about four hours and 45 minutes of meeting time in Columbus.

For those of us who romanticize about taking the train, reality has us stranded at the station.

Joe Hallett is senior editor at The Dispatch.

jhallett@dispatch.com