DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pluto Talkin' Browns Secondary And OL .......

Rather disappointing to read about Francies. The guy appears to be talented .... but talent minus desire is worse than no talent at all.


http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2010/02/terry_plutos_talkin_about_shaq.html


About the Browns ...

1. Yes, Florida cornerback Joe Haden is very attractive to the Browns, who want to add at least three defensive backs between the draft and free agency. The coaches believe they have only two legitimate starters in the secondary -- Eric Wright and Abe Elam. They consider Elam the No. 2 safety, meaning they want a real playmaker at the position. They have no idea what will happen with Brodney Pool, who was making significant progress before suffering a season-ending concussion in Game 11. It was at least his fourth concussion since turning pro in 2005.

2. Clearly, Tennessee safety Eric Berry appears to be a rising star, but he is expected to be gone long before the Browns pick at No. 7. Haden could be available. The Browns had 10 interceptions last season -- four by Pool, whose future is in question. The average NFL team had 16. Only three teams -- St. Louis, Detroit and Oakland -- had fewer interceptions.

3. To demonstrate the utter softness of the secondary, the Browns ranked eighth in sacks, which means they were putting pressure on opposing passers. Yet, it didn't produce more interceptions. I confess to not understanding all the formulas used in the profootballfocus.com rating system, but they rated the Browns at No. 6 in pressuring quarterbacks. Yet they were No. 24 in pass coverage, which is exactly how the team sees the problem.

4. The Browns believe Wright can develop into a top-10 cornerback. They thought he did a solid job in coverage, but his casual approach to tackling was disturbing. They did see some improvement near the end of the season. They also were encouraged when Wright began to show some improvement in his willingness to go to the blackboard and diagram coverages in meetings with his position players and coaches -- because they want him to show some leadership.

5. The Browns believe being handed starting positions as rookies may have hurt Brandon McDonald and Wright, giving them both a sense of entitlement -- especially since the team didn't add players who could push the two cornerbacks. That's why in the middle of the season the Browns just benched McDonald and started backup safety Michael Adams at cornerback. They respected Adams' preparation and toughness, even though he lacks the physical attributes to be an above-average cornerback. At least he understands coverages and tries to hit receivers hard, whereas McDonald's tackling often was embarrassing.

6. So in the plans for next season are Wright, Elam and Adams. But they want Adams as a reserve, and would like to add at least two starters and a couple of backups. McDonald and Coye Francies (a sixth-rounder in 2009) will be in camp, but they are promised nothing for 2010. The Browns were disappointed in Francies, who just didn't improve -- unlike so many other young players and undrafted free agents who used those extra practice periods to earn playing time on Sunday.

7. Francies was one of three picks the Browns had in the sixth round, along with James Davis and Don Carey. Davis was injured early in the season. Carey was cut. Francies has some physical gifts, but he's a guy who attended two different junior colleges, along with Oregon and San Jose State. When a player moves around that much, it sometimes is a warning sign that something is wrong.

8. The Browns also want to add a legitimate right tackle. The coaches believe you build an offensive line with a top-flight center (Alex Mack) and two impact tackles. They have one in Joe Thomas on the left side. They want an upgrade over John St. Clair on the right side. This can happen via free agency or the draft. They then think you can work in some veterans at the guard spots. Right now, the Browns have Eric Steinbach, Pork Chop Womack, Hank Fraley and St. Clair as guard possibilities, assuming they can find that right tackle.

nothing that we have't been saying all along around here.

Wright and Elam can start.

McDonald should be a nickle and Adams a back-up too.
Which means we need a safety that can start, a CB that can start and a veteran dime back that isn't ready for the glue factory.
That's 2 starters needed and we haven't even gotten out of the defensive backfield.
Maybe hold tight with the present corps of LBs and DL.Not great,just not horrible.


and an impact RT? All in one draft?

And QB???

Sounds like they have thier work cut out finding all of that in one draft...

No doubt it's doable.

As for QB....while I and many see that as a top priority, it may not be this year...we did win 4 in a row with the qbs we currently have on the roster.....


And...I think we will look more towards guys who will be there in the 3rd-4th round range....Tebow


Sorry...had to throw that in, don't make it the topic of diacussion.....Lefever is a guy many have mentioned....maybe him or a Pike...or...well, nevermind.

One way or another we are going to address the roster and needs.

In one of his interviews Heckert said he doesn't like to draft for need if he can help it....so I would expect to see us make a pretty strong push in FA...or even trades to fill has many needs as possible before draft day.

Thanks for the post Y-town.
I'll leave the D-back discussion to the more informed than I,but i need to touch on the o-line.
Yes a RT could be had in FA,but it's unlikely,and top flight ones are rare and expensive.Look for one in the 2nd/3rd round.
Why was Hadnot not mentioned as a guard?
He played very well at the end of the season.Is there something going on with him that I'm unaware of?

Sure would like to see the FA period get started,...

?? 27 February ??

We could easily fix the backfield in the draft. Haden is a possible choice in the 1st. Safety is very deep this year. Perhaps we get one at the top of the 3rd - Will Myron Rolle fall this far? Perhaps trade a 6th to move up to make sure we get him late 2nd. Or maybe the Va Tech guy (Chancellor) or Jones from Georgia or Burnett from GT?

RT - Let's say we get one with that other 3rd round pick. Not unreasonable at all. Loadholt went 3rd round last year didn't he? Who fits the Loadholt mold in this years draft? A big strong guy who had a good college career who drops because people evaluate him as a LT and he drops because he really can't play NFL LT and he struggles at RT in the combine because he played LT in college and isn't used to playing on the right side. Humm, can you say Cirion Black?

And we still have our 2nd round pick. I can see us taking a pass rushing OLB - Does Graham fall this far? More likely somebody like Selvie or Hughes from TCU.

Pick up a big bruising RB in the 4th or 5th - Hardesty, Tate or Dixon.

I think this would be an awesome draft for us. Sure the stars would have to align for us but a very possible draft scnario. Add in a veteran FA Wr (not sure who is available) and we really look much improved. We still have the nasty Qb situation but I don't have any good ideas on how the Browns fix this this year. Hasssalbeck as a temporary fix? For Wimbley and a 5th rounder?

I'm no draft guru by any stretch of the imagination ...... but with all of the underclassmen trying to make this draft before a rookie salary cap is put in place, it sure seems like a good draft to have extra picks in.

I could see the value of rounds 3-5 moving up almost 1 full round compared to a "normal" year given the extra quality players who seem sure to declare.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is an extremely deep class for Safeties, right?

I think that Texas safety, Clark? He would be a great fit if they want a playmaker.

You mean Earl Thomas?

This is a great draft to have a need at safety. Guys who would have been taken in the 1st last year won't go until the mid 2nd, or possibly early 3rd. I definitely want us to draft a safety, preferably two, considering I firmly believe that Abe Elam needs replaced.

Cornerback has some decent depth, but after Haden there aren't any surefire 1st rounders. It's just an average position this year. However, there are some good CB's available in free agency. Some good UFA pickups for us would be Dunta Robinson, Terrence McGee, Deshea Townsend, Lito Sheppard or Leigh Bodden.

Going by the draft rankings on another site, Bruce Campbell( OT. Maryland) is rated right about where we would pick in the second round. Joe Haden in the first and a safety with one of our third round picks would seem to be a good start.

Ytown - I don't think that many more underclassmen came out this year compared to normal. Anybody know where to check this out and compare to recent drafts? Regardless this is a deep draft, still I can't see having 11 rookies.

BigBad - This is a very deep draft for safety. There are probably 8-10 safeties that could come in and start for us if not this year then by the end of their 2nd season.

Deep - agree with you on the corners. As much as I would love Berry, not getting him may result in a better overall draft. If Berry were to fall to us no way we could pass on him but we don't get a starting CB later in the draft. If Berry is gone and we draft Haden, we can still get a safety to start for us in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Brandon McGee is a good corner out of Wake Forest... I'm pretty sure he will be there at the top half of the 2nd if we go Eric Berry or McClain in the 1st.

You know, it may work better that way, and it's something I've thought about myself. But if Berry is there, I still take him for two reasons.

One, he is without a doubt the best player. I don't even take into account the fact that safety is a bigger need. It is no secret that I am a strict proponent of BPA, especially in the top 10.

Secondly, I am confident that Berry could be a great corner. In fact, I think that he is a better corner prospect than Haden. He has played there in the past, and would have played there throughout college, if not for Tennessee moving him to safety so he could make more plays.

To be honest, I expect Berry to player corner in the NFL. Most teams place a much higher value on a corner than a safety.

If we want a Cb and don't get Haden in round 1 then we would have to go Cb in round 2. There will probably be a couple to choose from - Ghee, Warren, Kareem Jackson etc. I think Safety is deeper and we could wait until round 3 which I don't believe we could do for Cb and get an equivalent level of talent.

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Ytown - I don't think that many more underclassmen came out this year compared to normal.

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I don't know if that's accurate or even where to find that info, but this being an uncapped year and with the looming possibility of a work stoppage next season, and maybe a rookie cap down the road, seems to me that this would be the year to come out early.. Just thinking outloud....

I missed that comment. More underclassmen than ever declared for the draft, making it extremely deep.

Per http://profootball.scout.com/2/928286.html

There are 49 underclassmen in this year's draft.


Per http://profootball.scout.com/2/829665.html

There were 46 underclassmen in last year's draft.


I used the above links because they are both from the same website. But to be fair, I found another website with 54 underclassmen in this year's draft. I couldn't find their archive to know how many underclassmen they had for the 2009 draft.

Per http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Underclassmen.php


Even with the 2nd link that is only 8 additional underclassmen. But only 3 additional when comparing data from the same website.

If you have some data to support that I would love to see it.

Not arguing that this draft isn't deep because it is. And the underclassmen coming out may be more talented than in past year's - hard to say. But I just don't see that many more underclassmen coming out. I know it was speculated that many more would come out, but the numbers I found don't bear that out.

It actually tied the record. http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/19666758

From your article:

The NFL announced that 53 underclassmen have petitioned and been accepted into the player pool for the 2010 NFL Draft. The total matches 2008 as the highest number of underclassmen allowed in the draft in league history. It continues a growing trend of young players forgoing their eligibility early. There were "only" 35 players who made themselves eligible in 2001 and just last year the number was 46.

This 53 is 7 more than last year and exactly the same as 2008. Maybe we disagree with what we consider a significant increase.

Wow,,I'm really surprised more didn't come out... Given those things I mentioned before.. This would seem to be the year... I would think.....

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That would "alleviate" some of those money problems, etc.

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What money problems? Did I miss something about the browns having money problems?

We need to DESPERATELY replace "Lockdown" McDonald.

The guy is everything a Mangini guy is not. The type who doesn't try to improve on his weaknesses and blows stuff off.

I really don't like his character, at all.

I love hearing that. I'd love to see CB/S/RT/RG in any order drafted with our first four picks, all top 100 selections.

Say it out loud and ask yourself this question.
Can an offensive line complete 32 of 39 passes?

It is either QB or RB or WR or bust, if you only have one pick in the next 12 months it has to be a QB.


And I was wrong about Vilma .........

U talkin' to me??
I'm not drafting any of these QB's top ten..not this draft..in a strong QB class ,all of them would be either late first round-4th round picks.