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Wondering if any of you had the chance to watch this entire session. If you haven't it's almost an hour and half long. It got testy for certain but I think it was pretty constructive. Thoughts? Link Please resist talking about it if you haven't actually watched it.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Anybody?
10YR...Looks like when Obama showed the guts to take on their beloved "do nothing"-"just say no" GOP...it left our DawgTalk RWers "speechless"....LOL... 
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Anybody?
10YR...Looks like when Obama showed the guts to take on their beloved "do nothing"-"just say no" GOP...it left our DawgTalk RWers "speechless"....LOL...
..
Surprise, surprise.
Here is how President Barack Hussein Obama's charges define bipartisanship.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/...lth-care-talks/
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Anybody?
10YR...Looks like when Obama showed the guts to take on their beloved "do nothing"-"just say no" GOP...it left our DawgTalk RWers "speechless"....LOL...
Hey, macie, maybe some of us don't have an hour and half to watch it. Ever think of that? Some of us have jobs. But I'm sure you've watched it in it's entirety.
I did manage to watch about the first 5 minutes......and lo and behold, the gist of it was "I'm happy to be here, why do you guys not vote for what I and the dems want? Shame shame on you".
I was pleased to hear that the GDP was up 6%. Hadn't heard that from any news sources, though. Maybe I missed it.
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Il chime in since its strangely quiet when it comes to this Q&A session. (This happened over two weeks ago and was huge news around all the news stations minus fox news and this message board!)
I watched the whole thing and completely understand why fox cut away halfway through the question and answer portion.
It really was a carefully iterated decapitation of republican talking points of the past 1.5 years
All things aside, this exchange of views and ideas is exactly what politics should be about.
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j/c I find it funny how some have hours to post here, yet can't seem to find the time to look at the GOP and the president discuss their differences. Or read pertinant articles posted that actually breakdown who did away with PAYGO and who re-instated it. Or facts like who actually proposed the 2009 budget. I guess it's all about priorities.  But at least it seems many are finaly recognising it's politics on both sides of the aisle that got us where we are today. Not just one or the other. And that's a nice change of pace. At least we have broken gridlock more than our federal government to that degree. jmho
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I find it interesting that this most recent "paygo" thing is attached to "raise the debt limit"......yet some people think this is a good thing.
I also find it interesting that someone can post an hour and a half video of the president appearing bipartisan.....and think that means he's bi partisan. I guess we need to forget all the closed door meetings on health care - the ones one side wasn't invited to.
I guess we should forget the mantra of "if you don't vote for what I want, you're partisan", and "if you vote for what I want, you're doing the peoples will", even though the vast majority of the people didn't want what was trying to be rammed up their patoots.
Yeah, O is bi partisan alright.
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If you watch the video he talks about that specifically. It's obvious you haven't actually watched it.
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Hey, macie, maybe some of us don't have an hour and half to watch it. Ever think of that? Some of us have jobs. But I'm sure you've watched it in it's entirety.
You have a 8400 posts on a sports message board :-)
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Thanks for posting... I haven't had a whole lot of time to follow politics how it really needs to be followed since the election. I have listened to the media and their talking points the past year... and after watching this I'm willing to give Obama a bit more time before I throw him under the bus like I have been. He did present many valid points in why things have unfolded the way they have in this Q&A with the GOP. Possibly I'm being duped again.. it's really hard to find the truth nowadays in politics if you have a day job, family, etc. If your not actually sitting in on the meetings and debates that take place in Washington your stuck trying to find an unbiased media source to present the cliff notes. Which seems impossible nowadays... for now after watching this I'm hopeful yet again. We'll see I guess...
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If you watch the video he talks about that specifically. It's obvious you haven't actually watched it.
Uh........I said I watched the first 5 minutes of it. It's obvious you don't read well. 
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To you, 10yr, mac, pit, and whoever else called me out for not watching the whole thing - I just got done watching the whole thing.
I stand by what I posted.
I heard a whole lot or "your side vs. my side"
I listened to him say he was in favor of insurance companies being able to sell nationwide - and at about min. 51 he changed his mind and said basically "we can't let insurance companies sell where ever they want".
at min. 33 he was questioned about his raising discretionary spending 84%, and THEN freezing it - and at min. 37 he said, when questioned again about it - "we'll have to talk about that later".
I heard him repeatedly say "this isn't my fault".
As I was making notes, I noted at min. 43 (just listen)....I don't recall exactly what it was - but for those of you that care to, go to minute 43 and listen.
At min. 54 he admits that "things got snuck in the health reform" bill.......and he had no idea how they got there. (my take: hey, we didn't think people would read the thing, so now I'm saying I don't know how those got in there)
"your side and my side"
I heard a lot of "hey, if you have ideas, we'll listen", and then when questioned why the administration constantly says the republicans haven't offered any ideas he says "I've read your ideas".............but why does your administration say republicans haven't offered any ideas......he says "we've read them, and we took what we thought were good ideas". Boy, that's bipartisanship.
Overall, he blames others for the problems of this country, he still thinks his stimulus bill was good even though the money isn't all spent yet, he speaks nothing of the continuing job losses, he says the economy is recovering despite continued job losses...........
He's not a good "orator"...........not as good as the media would have you believe. Let me be clear.
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I find it interesting that this most recent "paygo" thing is attached to "raise the debt limit"......yet some people think this is a good thing.
So you're suggesting "no paygo" at all would be better? I would think this is a "happy medium" that at least will do some good rather than nothing at all. Probably not what the liberals want nor what the conservatives want. But somwewherein the middle of both.
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I also find it interesting that someone can post an hour and a half video of the president appearing bipartisan.....and think that means he's bi partisan. I guess we need to forget all the closed door meetings on health care - the ones one side wasn't invited to.
Senators Close to Health Accord
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, July 29, 2009
An emerging consensus among a bipartisan group of senators is poised to shift the dynamic in the congressional debate over health-care reform and could lead to a final product that sheds many of the priorities that President Obama has emphasized and that have drawn GOP attacks.
Three Democrats and three Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee are expected to wrap up their arduous multi-week talks in the coming days, and Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) said he expects a panel vote before the Senate recess, which will begin Aug. 7.
Assuming the fragile committee coalition holds, the legislation it produces would scramble the reform landscape by introducing policy ideas that have their origins in the political center. The bill is bound to disappoint liberals. But with prominent GOP backing, it also could prove more difficult for Republicans to reject out of hand -- the approach they have taken to the House bill and a second Senate version, written by the health committee.
The finance panel's legislation is expected to include incentives for employers to provide health insurance for their workers, rather than a more punitive coverage mandate. The committee is also likely to endorse narrowly targeted tax increases, rejecting a controversial tax surcharge on wealthy households that the House adopted and limits on deductions for upper-income taxpayers that Obama is seeking.
GOP negotiators rejected from the outset the kind of government-run insurance plan that Obama and most Democrats are pushing for in an attempt to inject the health-insurance market with pricing competition. Instead, the committee would create coverage cooperatives modeled after rural electricity providers.
As House negotiators continued to work late Tuesday evening on breaking an impasse on their version of the bill, the bipartisan Finance Committee negotiators emerged from another meeting insisting that no final decisions had been made about the contents of the legislation. But as details trickled out, none of the components appeared ready-made for GOP opposition. Negotiators are scrubbing every provision for unintended consequences that could negatively affect small businesses or middle-class families, both of which Republicans say could be harmed by the other bills moving through Congress.
"What we do obviously would be important to our Republican conference," said Sen. Olympia J. Snowe (Maine), a member of the GOP team, along with Sens. Charles E. Grassley (Iowa), the ranking Republican on the finance panel, and Mike Enzi (Wyo.), the senior Republican on the health committee. Snowe said the primary goal of the negotiations is a bill that can draw Republican votes.
"I think it might resonate, frankly, with our colleagues," Snowe said of the emerging compromise measure. "We want the basis for a bipartisan agreement, and I think that could be the launching pad for that resolution."
Reid told reporters Tuesday that he might be willing to compromise on points of policy if it meant getting the 60 votes needed to turn back GOP procedural objections. The Senate Democratic caucus now stands at 60 members, but two members -- Robert C. Byrd (W.Va.) and Edward M. Kennedy (Mass.) -- have battled serious illness, requiring Reid to win support from at least two Republicans to make up for their absence.
"I have a responsibility to get a bill on the Senate floor that will get 60 votes," Reid said. "That's my number one responsibility, and there are times when I have to set aside my personal preferences for the good of the Senate and I think the country."
But the Finance Committee has taken weeks longer than expected to hash out its deal, and in the House, reform legislation has stalled as Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) struggles to quell an uprising by conservative Democrats.
Obama has encouraged the finance panel's effort, praising it as the potential foundation for the bipartisan outcome he is seeking. But he flashed his discontent with the process during a question-and-answer session sponsored by AARP. "Sometimes I get a little frustrated, because this is one of those situations where it's so obvious that the system we have isn't working well for too many people, and that we could be doing better," Obama said Tuesday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/28/AR2009072803173.html
Guess you were mistaken Arch. See, Obama DID try to accept and support a bi=partisan proposal that did away with many "more liberal" proposals that many wanted including doing away with the "public option". However the liberals wouldn't go for it. But yes, he showed good faith and was willing to sign it.
Who wasn't invited again? 
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I guess we should forget the mantra of "if you don't vote for what I want, you're partisan", and "if you vote for what I want, you're doing the peoples will", even though the vast majority of the people didn't want what was trying to be rammed up their patoots.
As I just pointed out to you, three GOP and three Dems worked out the senate version and Obama was willing to sign it. It included far less than he really wanted. In case you missed it, the three GOP in this panel helped form it.
Now if you want to blame the liberal wing of Congress of not being willing to work in a bi-partisan fashion and/or the right wing of the GOP party, I would be happy to agree with you.
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Yeah, O is bi partisan alright.
He's trying to be.
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First - no, I am not suggesting 'no paygo' is better - although when "paygo" includes raising the debt limit to unprecedented levels........well, stop and think about it.
Second - the article you posted was from July of 2009. What happened AFTER that? Is that when all the pork got added? Is that when the closed door meetings where no republicans were invinted happened? Is that when all the "things got snuck in" (O's own words)?
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See, Obama DID try to accept and support a bi=partisan proposal that did away with many "more liberal" proposals that many wanted including doing away with the "public option".
Wait a minute.. I thought the republicans had NO ideas... that's what I've been told on this board and by the mainstream media... the republicans are the ones throwing up roadblock after roadblock without ever providing any ideas or proposals or solutions... so how could Obama possibly try to accept or incorporate them if they didn't exist? Unless of course... they did exist.... 
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So...here is how President Barack Hussein Obama defines bipartisanship: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/19/obama-keeps-democratic-health-option-open/Three weeks ago today he campaigned at the GOP house party talking about negotiations and bipartisanship...he was a condescending, arrogant, dimissive turd during that campaign speech and "Q & A". He was masterful at the spin of basically saying "do as I say or you are wrong". Three weeks later and he is preparing to jam something down the throats of Americans that the CLEAR MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT WANT!!! And do so under a "provision" that was not intended for any President or Congress to use to force something that the PEOPLE DO NOT WANT. What kind of "leader" does not listen to the voice of the people who chose him to lead? What kind of leader does whatever he wants and uses any means necessary to force HIS will - even when the people clearly do not want it? And some Barack-supporters wonder why I named him the King. 
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It would be really interesting to see how future cultures view our political landscape.
Bush and Obama and pretty much the same president ... their differences are inconsequential in the grand scheme -- mostly in their hollow rhetoric.
And yet the divide between the supporters and detractors is a canyon.
Obama is a very bad president -- if he gets eight years, he's got a very realistic chance to surpass Bush for the title of 'worst' .... but it's hard for me to take criticism of him seriously from folks who spent eight years arguing in favor of Bush's actions.
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Your own rhetoric is worse than that of either Bush or Barack Hussein Obama.
You never miss a chance to babble on about how similar they are...but you are so incredibly WRONG within your own point that it isn't even funny...you would be better served to say that they each have their own agendas and leave it at that. But you never do that.
These two men could not be more opposite as to what they think is best for this country.
Equally not what we need? Arguably.
"...pretty much the same President..." ??? Only in your mind.
And...by the way...Bush is no longer our President.
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So...here is how President Barack Hussein Obama defines bipartisanship:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/19/obama-keeps-democratic-health-option-open/
Three weeks ago today he campaigned at the GOP house party talking about negotiations and bipartisanship...he was a condescending, arrogant, dimissive turd during that campaign speech and "Q & A".
He was masterful at the spin of basically saying "do as I say or you are wrong".
Three weeks later and he is preparing to jam something down the throats of Americans that the CLEAR MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT WANT!!!
And do so under a "provision" that was not intended for any President or Congress to use to force something that the PEOPLE DO NOT WANT.
What kind of "leader" does not listen to the voice of the people who chose him to lead? What kind of leader does whatever he wants and uses any means necessary to force HIS will - even when the people clearly do not want it?
And some Barack-supporters wonder why I named him the King.
The silence from mac & Co in this regard is deafening.
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These two men could not be more opposite as to what they think is best for this country.
If you listen to what they say, I can see where one could come to that conclusion. But as far as actions?
Pretty much the same across the board. The only difference is reaction.
Look no further than health care...
Bush pushed through a bloated and expensive health care bill that was little more than a gift to pharm and insurance companies.
Obama is trying to do the same.
And yet there is a vast difference in the reaction.
Both men gave eye-popping amounts of foreign aid ... only difference is in reaction.
Both are/were big fans of corporate welfare.
We're still running our two ill-fated wars in pretty much the exact same fashion ... yet if you ask around, you'll get different answers. Detractors will say Obama is limp-wristed and wavering on the issue ... supporters will say he's simply taking on the burden of another Bush mistake.
The actual difference? Rhetoric.
If you want to say that the rhetoric of these two men, the soundbytes they toss out for the dolts, then yes, I agree, they're completely opposite.
But the actions? Near the same.
If fact, if you stripped policy and actions of any distinguishing names or party affiliations, and didn't provide the rhetoric given about them ... it would be very difficult to tell Bush and Obama apart.
That's why I laugh so hard when idiots talk about Obama being 'Marxist' or 'socialist' ... if that's the case, where were they with these cries when Bush was in office? Their administrations operated on the same level when it came to shoveling out welfare money.
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The silence from mac & Co in this regard is deafening.
Good lord man,, why would anyone comment on that article by Fox...
that would be like a conservative responding to something on MSNBC..
worthless at best..,.
#GMSTRONG
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where were they with these cries when Bush was in office?
The opposing view where out there, and you read them here. mostly from conservatives and libertarians. Not neccesarily republicans.
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Their administrations operated on the same level when it came to shoveling out welfare money.
Agreed, It is not the federal governments job to hand out money, that is socialism, and it must stop now.
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The silence from mac & Co in this regard is deafening.
Good lord man,, why would anyone comment on that article by Fox...
that would be like a conservative responding to something on MSNBC..
worthless at best..,.
Here you go then:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35462187/ns/politics-health_care_reform/
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Agreed, It is not the federal governments job to hand out money, that is socialism, and it must stop now.
While there are certainly elements of socialism inherent in the policies of Bush and Obama, for the most part it's fascism.
Handing out money to the masses is socialism ... handing out money to companies is fascism.
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It's MSNBC,,, they are not exactly the pinnacle of honest reporting either.. just like Fox..
I really don't pay attention to either of those networks.. I'd almost rather get no news than take thier reporting to heart..
#GMSTRONG
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So....whether it is Fox or msnbc...can you - or any other Barack-supporter - deny this point that was NOT in either article nor quotes either article:
Three weeks ago today he campaigned at the GOP house party talking about negotiations and bipartisanship...he was a condescending, arrogant, dimissive turd during that campaign speech and "Q & A".
He was masterful at the spin of basically saying "do as I say or you are wrong".
Three weeks later and he is preparing to jam something down the throats of Americans that the CLEAR MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT WANT!!!
And do so under a "provision" that was not intended for any President or Congress to use to force something that the PEOPLE DO NOT WANT.
What kind of "leader" does not listen to the voice of the people who chose him to lead? What kind of leader does whatever he wants and uses any means necessary to force HIS will - even when the people clearly do not want it?
And some Barack-supporters wonder why I named him the King.
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he was a condescending, arrogant, dimissive turd during that campaign speech and "Q & A".
WSU...says who?....YOU?
That is your opinion and it's likely you heard one of your Radical RW talkingheads say it, so you just repeat.
I think everyone has a good idea why you call Obama names...it shows.
BTW...did you hear what Glenn Beck said about the GOP at cpac last night?
It's rather historical in that it's the first honest comment Beck has made for over a year.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Willie, if you want to believe what you just wrote, it's fine with me. be my guest.
But by now you have got to know, I don't buy what the press is selling.. you can if you wish..
#GMSTRONG
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he was a condescending, arrogant, dimissive turd during that campaign speech and "Q & A".
[QUOTE] WSU...says who?....YOU?[/QUOTE]
Uhhh...yes...I DID make that post. 
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That is your opinion and it's likely you heard one of your Radical RW talkingheads say it, so you just repeat.
Yeah...that's me alright.
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I think everyone has a good idea why you call Obama names...it shows.
Name...not nameS...name. He acts like a King...that's not my fault. I give you VERY, VERY specific examples of how his behavior is incredibly king-like...and you won't or can't counter those examples.
So...I agree...that's why "everyone has a good idea why (I) call Obama (King)".
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BTW...did you hear what Glenn Beck said about the GOP at cpac last night?
It's rather historical in that it's the first honest comment Beck has made for over a year.
I did not hear it...I read it...and agreed with what he said...and have said so in that thread on this board.
What is historical AND hysterical is your weak attempt to paint yourself as some sort of all-knowing moderate who thinks of himself as being blind to Rs and Ds...yet you can't stop bringing up the R vs D argument.
You continually and consistently overlook the POINT to focus on something other than the point itself.
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You continually and consistently overlook the POINT to focus on something other than the point itself.
That right there is perfect - wish I would've said it. That describes mac to a T. 
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But by now you have got to know, I don't buy what the press is selling.. you can if you wish..
I did not quote nor suuport/refute "the press"...that stuff was all me. The links were provided as the backdrop for what is going on and for my opinion on what is going on.
If you don't want to engage in the debate...that's ok...I understand. But you shouldn't try and paint it as me agreeing with either article.
What the guy is "up to" is the debate...sorry...scratch "guy" and insert President Barack Hussein Obama. 
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I won't engage in debate with you either,, and here is the reason Quote:
What the guy is "up to" is the debate...sorry...scratch "guy" and insert President Barack Hussein Obama
Your inability to see anything other than the hatred you have for the man... and that's fine.. it's your opinion and I respect it and you... but I won't engage in debate with one who is so clearly closed minded.. it wouldn't prove fruitful... so what purpose would it serve.. I can't think of one.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I won't engage in debate with you either,, and here is the reason
Quote:
What the guy is "up to" is the debate...sorry...scratch "guy" and insert President Barack Hussein Obama
Your inability to see anything other than the hatred you have for the man... and that's fine.. it's your opinion and I respect it and you... but I won't engage in debate with one who is so clearly closed minded.. it wouldn't prove fruitful... so what purpose would it serve.. I can't think of one.
I don't hate the man...I have never said a word about the man...I do not know the man. I don't attack HIM...I attack his lies and policies.
I hate his policies and deceitful ways...his arrogance and insistance that Americans are too stupid to know what they want and don't want.
I hate that he is trying to cram something in that the people do not want.
I hate that he is so incredibly partisan in actions and words and yet has the stones to stand in front of the camera and complain about partisan politics.
The upcoming health care summit has already been staged by President Barack Hussein Obama with one party having written and passed both versions of a bill...and one party creating a "reconciliation" of those bills...
All while claiming the need for bipartisan negotiations. Unreal.
If you think I so hate President Barack Hussein Obama the man...without seeing that it's what he does that I DO "hate", then such is why I said I understand why you don't want to engage in the debate.
It's hard to debate what I am saying because he is trying to do exactly what it is that I am complaining about.
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Legend
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Legend
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Ah......all valid points. BUT: You used his middle name, so according to the people that can't debate on points, you hate him, you are bigoted, and your actual points hold no validity.
At least that's what anyone that disagrees with him gets labeled as.
At least you're just a bigot - someone on this board - - - - who shall remain nameless - - - - has strongly insinuated many times that, because I disagree with some things, that I am a racist.
I have found solace in the fact that, when people cannot debate a point without throwing out "bigot" or "racist".............well, they really can't defend their stance and consequently attempt to turn the discussion away from the actual point (disagreeing with someone) and turn it into a "you're biased" kind of thing. It's rather juvenile in my opinion - but, they can do what they want I guess.
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Legend
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Legend
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Why hide behind a vail Arch,, come right out and say who it is..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
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Why hide behind a vail Arch,, come right out and say who it is..
(veil)
Okay.
Since you asked: You.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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It's hard to debate what I am saying because he is trying to do exactly what it is that I am complaining about.
No, it's hard to debate because of your incessant "king" characterizations. You call him deceitful, arrogant, and a dismissive turd. You state that he thinks all Americans are stupid as if you can read his mind. These are not debate points. These are just personal attacks.
If you spent time providing evidence for points rather than the tired "king" characterizations, maybe more people would listen to your points.
You say he is pushing through something the people don't want; polling shows it was neck and neck up until the Brown victory in Mass. Then people started backing away from the bill, after that election. More suggestive of people wanting to avoid a logjam than being fundamentally opposed to the bill.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124715/Majority-Americans-Not-Backing-Healthcare-Bill.aspx
You say the health care summit is staged. Republicans claim that no one is listening to them. That may be true in the House, but if you look at the Senate version of the bill, it is much closer to the Republican plan, including no public option.
As far as reconciliation, it would be very hard to make it work without dropping anything that can't be tied directly to the budget. That is why there is a summit. It will not only be easier to pass a new, bipartisan bill, but reconciliation would result in half-measures that, IMO, would be ineffective. I think that reconciliation is a bluff. A threat, like the filibuster is a threat, to force the sides to work it out.
IMO, they shouldn't start from scratch, but work within the framework of the Senate bill, which was more bipartisan to start with.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/how-reconciliation-would-work
Last edited by tjs7; 02/22/10 02:25 AM.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
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I think everyone has a good idea why you call Obama names...it shows.
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Name...not nameS...name. He acts like a King...that's not my fault. I give you VERY, VERY specific examples of how his behavior is incredibly king-like...and you won't or can't counter those examples.
So...I agree...that's why "everyone has a good idea why (I) call Obama (King)".
Willie...from your post above...your words...
"he was a condescending, arrogant, dimissive turd"
I'm sure if I do a search of your posts, I can find more of the colorful language you use when addressing Obama...the "names" you call him....I believe it says a lot about you and your opinion.
jmho...mac
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