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POTUS to sign executive order to form debt commission on Thursday February 16, 2010 6:08 PM A White House official tells ABC News that President Obama on Thursday will sign an executive order establishing the bipartisan National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, to make recommendations on how to reduce the skyrocketing national debt. In Nashua, NH, on February 2, the president said “it keeps me awake at night, looking at all that red ink. Most of it is structural and we inherited it. The only way that we are going to fix it is if both parties come together and start making some tough decisions about our long-term priorities.” The commission will be co-chaired by former President Bill Clinton’s former White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles and former Sen. Alan Simpson, R-Wyoming, the former Senate Republican Whip. Bowles is currently President of the University of North Carolina. As Clinton’s chief of staff from 1996 through 1998, he was credited with having brokered the last significant bipartisan budget agreement, the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. Simpson was a US Senator from Wyoming from 1979 to 1997. He currently practices law with his two sons in Cody, Wyoming, is a co-chair of Americans for Campaign Reform and served on the Iraq Study group. President Obama has expressed frustration with the fact that a congressional move to form a such a commission was defeated in the Senate with seven Republicans who had originally co-sponsored the legislation voting against it, expressing concern that it could lead to tax increases. (Although the whole point of the commission was to put everything on the table, tax increases and spending cuts, and to try to work out a palatable compromise and have everyone vote on it, as happened with the base closure commission.) “I'm open to honest differences of opinion” the president said to Senate Democrats earlier this month. “But what I'm not open to is changing positions solely because it's good short-term politics. And what I'm not open to is a decision to stay on the sidelines and then assign blame.” web page
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Quote:
And what I'm not open to is a decision to stay on the sidelines and then assign blame.”
That's all Obama has done is assign blame.
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Quote:
Most of it is structural and we inherited it.
And what I'm not open to is a decision to stay on the sidelines and then assign blame.”
There's the highlights for anyone that is interested. 
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
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And what I'm not open to is a decision to stay on the sidelines and then assign blame.”
That's all Obama has done is assign blame.
And here he assigns blame to both sides and says that we need to come together to improve the debt spending, something both sides are so quick and reckless to do.
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Good, hopefully they can come up with some sound advice... I wouldn't be as opposed to a little tax bump on me personally if DC is working hard to cut spending at the same time... but I'll be damned if I'm going to take one while the feds are printing and throwing money around like it's Monopoly money... It still does amaze me that we have 450+/- congressmen, 100 senators, and the legislative branch that we elected and pay very well to run this country but any time something serious needs to get done, they form a commission of other people... what the hell did we elect them for? 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
That's all Obama has done is assign blame.
As if republicans are without sin.. Geesh,, they do the same damn thing man....
In fact, (from the movie the american president, Micheal Douglas speech paraphrased of course)
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thats how you get elected in this country.. you tell people what to be afraid of and then tell them who's to blame..
Keeping in mind, you don't even have to be right about blame.. you just have to place it..
Both sides do it... so you can come down off that high horse already... 
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Quote:
A White House official tells ABC News that President Obama on Thursday will sign an executive order establishing the bipartisan National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, to make recommendations on how to reduce the skyrocketing national debt.
Here's a hint for the President that won't cost him a cent .......
STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE!!!!! Start spending LESS than the government collects in taxes.
It's have to "tax" your way our of the kind of deficits we have ben running, and to pay down the debt we've run up.
That's really the only way to reduce the deficit.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
That's all Obama has done is assign blame.
As if republicans are without sin.. Geesh,, they do the same damn thing man....
In fact, (from the movie the american president, Micheal Douglas speech paraphrased of course)
Quote:
thats how you get elected in this country.. you tell people what to be afraid of and then tell them who's to blame..
Keeping in mind, you don't even have to be right about blame.. you just have to place it..
Both sides do it... so you can come down off that high horse already...
This.
Honestly, I think Obama's starting to grow frustrated with the system on both sides...wouldn't surprise me if privately he thinks "I can't do anything because everyone in Congress on both sides are a bunch of morons."
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Quote:
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Most of it is structural and we inherited it.
And what I'm not open to is a decision to stay on the sidelines and then assign blame.”
There's the highlights for anyone that is interested.
I have to laugh because he does this quite a bit. I laugh at the "Republicans are the party of 'NO'" mantra he and Dems have been throwing around lately (which polls show has been working). The Repubs had ZERO power over everything. The Dems had the numbers to do ANYTHING they wanted, yet they didn't get anything done. They pass the blame onto a group of guys that had as much power to do anything about any vote as me.
And what is exactly wrong in saying "NO" to crap legislation when the majority of the people want you to say "NO" to the crap legislation?
"My signature line goes here."
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Honestly, I think Obama's starting to grow frustrated with the system on both sides...wouldn't surprise me if privately he thinks "I can't do anything because everyone in Congress on both sides are a bunch of morons."
Ha,, if you were in Obamas shoes, how would you feel about one side of the isle saying no and the other not being able to make up thier minds .....
To be honest, I know it's a great honor to be elected President of the USA.. but I don't think you could ever get me to run... not in a Bizillion years.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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Damanshot
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just clicking...
Six Republicans Vote Against Deficit Bill They Sponsored
Thursday, January 28, 2010
Congress often is loath to make tough fiscal decisions that may spur anger from constituents, which is why a plan was devised to create a special bipartisan commission that would craft a solution to reduce the nation’s ballooning deficit. But when the legislation creating the commission came up for a vote on Tuesday in the Senate, it fell six votes short of avoiding a Republican filibuster—the same exact number of Republican co-sponsors who changed their minds and voted “no.”
The turnabouts were Republicans Sam Brownback of Kansas, Mike Crapo of Idaho, John Ensign of Nevada, Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, James Inhofe of Oklahoma and John McCain of Arizona. Almost all of them said they changed their minds because of concerns that the commission might result in tax increases, although many believed the vote-switching was more political than fiscal.
As conceived, the commission was expected to produce a package of tax increases and spending cuts designed to bring down what is now a nearly $2 trillion hole in the budget. Members of Congress would have had to approve the recommendations without making amendments.
In his State of the Union address Wednesday night, President Barack Obama announced that he would create his own commission via executive order, but that body will not force any decisions until after the November elections.
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Senate rejects deficit commission
Despite grim new deficit estimates, the Senate rejected efforts Tuesday to create a bipartisan commission empowered to force up-and-down votes in Congress on long-term steps to relieve the mounting debt facing the nation.
A majority of senators backed the measure on the 53-46 roll call, but it still failed after falling seven votes short of the 60 required under prior agreement for passage.
President Barack Obama is now expected to step in and by executive order create his own commission, also designed to force action after the November elections. But the landscape ahead is clearly difficult given the economic outlook and raw politics seen in the Senate debate.
Not only Obama but also Scott Brown, the newly elected Massachusetts senator and Republican hero, had supported the commission idea, sponsored by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) and his ranking Republican, New Hampshire Sen. Judd Gregg. But old-guard elements in both parties resisted, and it was ultimately doomed because top Republicans feared it would help Democrats extricate themselves from a difficult debt-ceiling bill.
It’s now estimated that Treasury will need an additional $1.9 trillion in borrowing authority to carry the government past the November elections into the spring of 2011. Republicans would prefer more of an “installment plan” forcing multiple votes in the same period to bleed the Democrats politically.
Both parties were ultimately divided in Tuesday’s vote, and Republicans could yet pay a price for their tactics.
Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander, chairman of the Senate Republican Conference, stood with Gregg in the fight despite the opposition of others in his leadership. In an interview with POLITICO, he anticipated that more would have to be done by Obama than belatedly endorsing the commission only days before the vote.
“For it to win, the president will have to more,” Alexander said. “I think he’ll have to produce a Democratic majority in favor of it, and if he does, I think there will be a significant number of Republican votes to go with it.”
“The president’s the agenda setter. The debt’s the issue. And if this is his proposal he needs to produce the votes to pass it.”
In fact, a majority of Democrats did back the measure including most of the party’s top leaders. But there was a fatal undercurrent of opposition from top chairmen of tax writing and appropriations committees, and Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) made little effort to temper this campaign led by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.).
Tuesday’s maneuvering came as the Congressional Budget Office released new spending and revenue estimates showing a $1.35 trillion deficit for the current fiscal year ending Sept. 30.
This is only modestly less than the $1.4 trillion wave of red ink that the government experienced in 2009, as revenues continue to lag with the slow economic recovery. Even in 2011, CBO shows a nearly $1 trillion shortfall, and that picture could well be worse depending on the costs of the war in Afghanistan and what Congress decides on long-term tax policy.
CBO is projecting that unemployment will average slightly above 10 percent in the first half of 2010 and then turn downward in the second half. But the building debt carries with an added burden since once the economy improves, CBO says that higher interest rates will come back and bite the Treasury trying to finance these deficits.
“Interest payments on the debt are poised to skyrocket,” CBO says. From 2010 through 2020, CBO projects the annual costs will triple in nominal terms from $207 billion to $723 billion and more than double as a share of gross domestic product.
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Quote:
Honestly, I think Obama's starting to grow frustrated with the system on both sides...wouldn't surprise me if privately he thinks "I can't do anything because everyone in Congress on both sides are a bunch of morons."
If Obama is growing frustrated, it's probably because he thought that the charm and charisma that got him into the oval office was going to be enough to help him get all of his initiatives through.. and he's finding out that running the United States of America isn't the same as community organizing.
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just clicking ...
Obama finally syncs with Ohio Sen. Voinovich on need, structure of deficit reduction task force
January 24, 10:22 PMColumbus Government ExaminerJohn Michael Spinelli
COLUMBUS, Ohio - Ohio Sen. George Voinovich, whose reputation as a budget and deficit hawk was bronzed during his two consecutive terms as Ohio governor in the 1990s when his aptly named operational motto was "doing more with less," only has until the end of the year until he retires.
But a ticking clock signaling the end of 12 years in the world's Most Deliberative Body has not distracted him from curbing the nation's enthusiasm for spiraling deficits.
After eight years as Ohio governor, Voinovich, whose early rise to power and prominence came when he pulled Cleveland, as its mayor, from the ruble left by the then-boy mayor, Dennis Kucinich, has tried in vain since coming to the U.S.Senate in 1999 to gain passage of reforms to America's long-term debt situation, exacerbated by the tax and entitlement systems he labels "the biggest challenge facing our nation today."
Obama, Voinovich sync up on deficit reduction task force
It appears from news reports Saturday that Voinovich has finally won the support of President Barack Obama, who this weekend announced he would endorse a bipartisan plan to name a special task force charged with coming up with a plan to curb the spiraling budget deficit.
According to published reports, the bipartisan 18-member panel would study the issue for much of the year and report a deficit reduction blueprint after the November elections that would be voted on before the new Congress convenes next year, if at least half of the GOP panel members agree.
Voinovich, with help last week from from Judd Gregg (R-NH), Ranking Member of the Senate Budget Committee, diverted Obama from naming a commission, with no teeth, to backing a congressional task force with plenty of incisors that could force lawmakers to vote.
The idea is similar to the Military Base Reduction Task Force that is given a list of proposed base closings and then asked to vote up or down on all of them, thereby holding political hands as they all jump out of their airplane to prevent the kind of back-room deals witnessed recently as Senate Democrats bought caucus votes with lucrative deals the American public found distasteful in spite of the strategy being a generally accepted practice over the years.
Voinovich trades commitments with Reid
Last month, Voinovich told Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) he would vote for a short-term increase of $925 billion to the debt limit if the deficit reduction task force act, known as the Bipartisan Task Force for Responsible Fiscal Action Act of 2009, is considered for debate by the Senate when it convened after Christmas.
Sen. Conrad (D-ND), Senate Budget Committee Chairman, complimented Voinovich, saying he "has been as committed as any member to the need to deal with our long-term debt," adding that the 73-year old senator "has not only talked the talk, he has walked the walk..."
Conrad said Voinovich, who started his political career in 1967 as a member of the Ohio House of Representatives, "demonstrated his commitment to doing something serious and significant to get our long-term debt under control.”
Early reports on Obama's address to the country on the State of the Union next Wednesday say reducing the deficit will be a major focus of his talk.
Now $1.4 trillion, deficit expected to go higher
The deficit spiked to an eye-popping $1.4 trillion in 2009. This figure, experts say, will rise as an economy in recession doesn't deliver on tax revenues. What gives Voinovich nightmares is knowing that experts say the medium-term deficit picture for the foreseeable future is to experience deficits of about $1 trillion a year.
Despite Voinovich's approval of the task force, members of his own party may balk because some now say it will be a recipe for tax increases. Democrats may also pull up short as they worry it will lead to cuts in Medicare and Social Security benefits. Members of both parties may also see it as encroaching on their authority as lawmakers to make decisions.
To listen to Voinovich speak on the issue of deficit reduction, follow this link:
http://www.youtube.com/v/aUhiphT3Bm4
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Voinovich blasts McConnell, GOP foes of deficit commission
By Michael O'Brien - 01/26/10 04:50 PM ET
Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio) excoriated Republican colleagues, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), Tuesday for having voted against a law to set up a commission to address the nation's long-term fiscal health.
Voinovich, a longtime deficit hawk, teed off against 23 fellow Senate Republicans who jointed with some Democrats to defeat a proposed bipartisan commission to address deficits and the national debt.
"The issue that I'm raising with Republicans is if you are not for this commission, then what are you for?" Voinovich said during a conference call with reporters. "And if the president is forced into creating an executive order and you criticize that executive order, then how are you going to explain what you want to do to deal with this problem?"
Fifty-three senators voted to create the commission, offered in an amendment by Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), short of the 60 votes needed to end a filibuster.
Voinovich, who will retire next year at the end of his term, loudly criticized his party's leader for having opposed the commission, suggesting McConnell's vote against the amendment was politically motivated.
Voinovich said:
I was disappointed in Sen. [Sherrod] Brown [D] from Ohio for opposing it. I'd like to know why he opposed it. If he's opposing it, what is he for? Same question to Mitch McConnell: Mitch, if you don't like it — he came out for this last year, as The Washington Post pointed out, six times on the floor last year — and he's backed off. And this issue is, Why is he backing off?
I think that for the Republican Party, one of the important things — first of all, from a substantive view, we have to get on with this. I think that if the public perceives that the Republican Party is playing political games and putting covering people's hides and whose main goal in life is to see how many more Republicans we can get in the Senate and the House, and the public interest be damned because this is the theory that we're going to create an environment that's going to be better — I think it's going to backfire. I think the American people move to the independents. They're looking for forthrightness, they're looking for transparency here. They're looking for us to deal with problems, and they've made it pretty darn clear they want us to do it on a bipartisan basis.
The Ohio Republican left out hope that the commission could be revisited by the Senate, if President Barack Obama and congressional leaders weigh in heavily enough to flip votes. Voinovich said that the one senator to not vote, Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), would support the measure, meaning six more votes were necessary.
Voinovich asserted:
I think that if the president does what I hope he does tomorrow night and really makes an issue out of it, and looks across the audience and looks to McConnell and says to him, 'Look, you were for this before and the question I have to ask is, If you're not for this, what are you for? And thanks [Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.] for supporting this, and, Harry, are you sure there aren't a few more Democrats you can bring on board? I really want to do this on a bipartisan basis. I really think this is in the best interest of the nation,' I think it can get done.
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Personnally, it's about time our Senator Voinovich stopped walking in lockstep with his GOP party. This is more like the Voinovich I used to support...too bad he waited until he's walking out the door before finding the courage to do the right thing for Ohio voters...taking the deficit seriously and not playing politics with the issue like many in his party and some of the dems.
Last edited by mac; 02/17/10 12:49 PM.
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taking the deficit seriously and not playing politics with the issue like many in his party and some of the dems.
Got to love your choice of words. Tell me one thing the dems have really done in the last year that points they are "serious" about our debt????
Both sides have talked the talk but never walk the walk. But as usual to mac it's all the republicans fault.
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If Obama is growing frustrated, it's probably because he thought that the charm and charisma that got him into the oval office was going to be enough to help him get all of his initiatives through..
Or he's guilty of thinking that honest and open discussion between all parties involved would have resulted in answers.. instead, he got a bunch of screaming mimis' that are too busy bolstering thier own images and skipping the duties they were elected to perform....
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This is a good move, but the unfortunate thing is that the commission will have no teeth whatsoever. Only the commission created by Congress, that was voted down, would have had any ability to actually enforce things.
I do have to agree (mildly) with those 6 that voted No, however, SOMETHING has to be done... but then against, doing something just for the sake of not doing nothing is bad as well.
In the end, while this commission won't have any enforcement ability, perhaps they can at least assert influence - provided they actually come to reasonable conclusions.
If they come back with more tax increases than spending cuts, then we've got an obvious problem -- but if they can produce some truly good and usable recommendations, then it shouldn't be too hard to win approval for them.
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Just curious - I don't know, and I don't know if you know - but when these senators were supporting something, then decided to not support it - was there a bunch of pork stuff thrown in when the final vote came?
If so, I can absolutely understand why they would change their mind.
Just a question.
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That's all Obama has done is assign blame.
As if republicans are without sin.. Geesh,, they do the same damn thing man....
In fact, (from the movie the american president, Micheal Douglas speech paraphrased of course)
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thats how you get elected in this country.. you tell people what to be afraid of and then tell them who's to blame..
Keeping in mind, you don't even have to be right about blame.. you just have to place it..
Both sides do it... so you can come down off that high horse already...
1. Where did I say republicans didn't do it? Oh, that's right, I didn't say that.
2. Is that the best comeback liberals have? "Well the other side does it too!" Just because the other side does it, doesn't justify what Obama is currently doing. This is the man that promised hope and change, no more politics as usual. Remember that? No, I don't think you do. It's time for him to man up and take accountability for his failed policies and stop playing the same dumb games Washington has been playing for decades.
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I only hope that the commission has as much success in shutting down federal programs as the military base closure commission had in closing down military bases. It has potential, they need something more than a spending freeze full of loopholes. And they need to quit lowering taxes and signing the names of the unborn to the I.O.U's they're putting out. If they want money being spent to spur the economy than reduce the amount of dough people can shelter from taxes instead of shifting the burden to future generations.
Last edited by Reckon; 02/18/10 09:29 AM.
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Quote:
Just curious - I don't know, and I don't know if you know - but when these senators were supporting something, then decided to not support it - was there a bunch of pork stuff thrown in when the final vote came?
If so, I can absolutely understand why they would change their mind.
Just a question.
arch...what is the subject of this thread?
Some of our elected officials supported the idea of a debt commission...then they changed their mind when it came time to vote on it.
Hard to believe that some of our elected officials would not be serious about forming a debt commission...but it's true.
Arch...what did you think about our Ohio Senator Voinovich, "publicly" taking on some of those elected officials who voted against the formation of a debt commission?
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1. Where did I say republicans didn't do it? Oh, that's right, I didn't say that.
Is that the best you got.. Deny that your comment wasn't a slam yet say nothing about both sides being guilty of the same actions?
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2. Is that the best comeback liberals have? "Well the other side does it too!"
I'm not a liberal,, never have been, don't see me ever becoming one.. More of a guy who lives in the center and leans either right or left depending on subject matter.
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Just because the other side does it, doesn't justify what Obama is currently doing.
Not to me it doesn't.. But to NOT admit that both sides do it is like saying only one side does.. Be fair.. not like the US Media...Tell both sides,, not one,,, not just yours..
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No, I don't think you do. It's time for him to man up and take accountability for his failed policies and stop playing the same dumb games Washington has been playing for decades.
I remember what he said and I have also watched while some Democrats and seemingly all republicans have done everthing in thier power to block any attempts he's made...
Instead of getting together (both sides) and working on solutions, both sides have been doing NOTHING but blowing thier own horns..
This country has serious issues and our politicians can do nothing but complain about the other side..
it's time we held them ALL accountable...
Your comment that led to my comments were clearly one sided.. that's what I hate more than anything.. say what you will, but be fair about it..
#GMSTRONG
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You know why I don't support a "Debt Commission"? There are 2 main reasons: #1. What real power will the "Debt Commission" have? I can tell them right now what the problem is ...... Spending exceeds revenues. It's not that hard an equation. What will they do about it? #2. Just how deep into the budget will this "Debt Commission" go? I bet there are about $500 billion worth of questionable or flat out pork allocations contained in the budget ..... but all too often in Waskington it's: "If you turn a blind eye to mine, I promise not to see yours" ........ What the President ought to do is appoint a commission of accountants, business leaders, and members of the general public to go over the budget with a hacksaw. Thisthing is so far out of control that it's ridiculous. A toothless "Debt Commission" will do little to change matters .... except, most likely, costing us more money to administer the damn thing. Congress is supposed to be the "Debt Commission". This is merely an admission that Congress is not, or will not, do its job ..... so let's have some members of Congress work on the problem ..... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Congress is supposed to be the "Debt Commission". This is merely an admission that Congress is not, or will not, do its job .....
Which was my point earlier.. we have 55-+/- congressmen and senators who job it is to do this with the budget but every time we have a serious problem, we go outside of them to appoint a commission.. you are correct, it is an admission that they cannot satisfactorily do their job.
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What the President ought to do is appoint a commission of accountants, business leaders, and members of the general public to go over the budget with a hacksaw.
He could appoint my wife to chair the committee... these congressmen would have to beg for $20 to go have a few beers by the time she was done with them. 
yebat' Putin
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You know why I don't support a "Debt Commission"?
There are 2 main reasons:
#1. What real power will the "Debt Commission" have? I can tell them right now what the problem is ...... Spending exceeds revenues. It's not that hard an equation. What will they do about it?
#2. Just how deep into the budget will this "Debt Commission" go? I bet there are about $500 billion worth of questionable or flat out pork allocations contained in the budget ..... but all too often in Waskington it's: "If you turn a blind eye to mine, I promise not to see yours" ........
What the President ought to do is appoint a commission of accountants, business leaders, and members of the general public to go over the budget with a hacksaw. Thisthing is so far out of control that it's ridiculous. A toothless "Debt Commission" will do little to change matters .... except, most likely, costing us more money to administer the damn thing.
Congress is supposed to be the "Debt Commission". This is merely an admission that Congress is not, or will not, do its job ..... so let's have some members of Congress work on the problem .....
YTown...I have a good idea why you do not support a debt commission...because the GOP is making political hay, doing nothing...blocking anything Obama tries to do.
As for your comment that "Congress" is supposed to be our debt commission...tell us how that has been working out for the American people?
Tell us what a good job America's real debt commission (congress) did from 2001 to 2009?
The GOP's debt commission told Americans we could cut taxes that benefitted wealthy Americans the most and it would "trickle down" to the middle and working class Americans and our country would prosper.
For some reason, Bush's "fuzzy math" never added up to anything but lost jobs for America's middle and working class and a debt like our country has never seen before in it's history.
No, America doesn't need a debt commission...everything is fine...just ask any republican.
IMO, it's time to get every senator and congressman on record concerning the subject of America's debt...the voters deserve to know if their elected official is serious about fixing our country's debt issues...or, are our elected simply attempting to get re-elected by doing nothing?
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As for your comment that "Congress" is supposed to be our debt commission...tell us how that has been working out for the American people?
So we are in agreement that Newt's congress under Clinton did a fine job then? right?...
yebat' Putin
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As for your comment that "Congress" is supposed to be our debt commission...tell us how that has been working out for the American people?
So we are in agreement that Newt's congress under Clinton did a fine job then? right?...
DC...did Newt support Clinton's budget?
You seem to be having a problem facing "reality"...the GOP has not been conservative for a very long time...and trickle down economics does not work!
Last edited by mac; 02/18/10 12:30 PM.
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Perhaps you didn't read my post. Perhaps you need to beef up on reading comprehension. Further, perhaps you haven't read anything I have written lately about politics. I'm not a fan of EITHER party at this point. I agree more with the supposed conservative values of the Republican Party ...... but they've hardly held to anything remotely resembling conservatism lately. CONGRESS is supposed to be the body that examines and assembles the budget. In fact, they are the body with that responsibility. They debate aspects of the budget where they can make political hay ...... they exchanges allocations of funds for votes ...... they include paybacks for political favors ...... This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue ..... it's a broken political system issue. BOTH parties are responsible, liable, and guilty. I fail to see how appointing Senators and Congressmen .... who are responsible for the federal budget deficit/debt debacle to start with, is going to solve anything. It's like appointing a crooked cop to root out police corruption.  Now ... go back to your "Everything Democrats do is good and everything Republicans do is bad" babbling.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DC...did Newt support Clinton's budget?
I would recommend you look up the Contract With America that Gingrich and the republicans proposed.. which called for Welfare reform, Balanced budgets, greater restrictions on our soldiers to fight for the UN and our funding of such missions, term limits for congress and senate, an independent auditing firm to audit the books of congress looking for waste, limits on punitive damages in civil cases, tax breaks for middle americans, tax cuts on small business to create an incentive to start a business and/or grow a business and hire more people at a reasonable wage, child tax credits and elimination of the marriage penalty tax, a strong anti-crime package, not allowing congressional committee members to vote by proxy, a measure that would require a 3/5 vote in congress to raise taxes... see anything you disagree with yet? Clinton called this the Contract ON America... passage of such things was going to kill us......
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You seem to be having a problem facing "reality"...the GOP has not been conservative for a very long time...
I don't have a problem facing that.. which is why I get so frustrated when you act like I'm a lock-step republican. I don't even really consider myself a republican any more... I consider myself a conservative. That doesn't mean there aren't some republicans that I admire and respect... typically more than I admire most democrats.
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and trickle down economics does not work!
Neither does growing the welfare state and government control of business and our lives... now that thats out of the way, what does work?
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This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue ..... it's a broken political system issue. BOTH parties are responsible, liable, and guilty. I fail to see how appointing Senators and Congressmen .... who are responsible for the federal budget deficit/debt debacle to start with, is going to solve anything. It's like appointing a crooked cop to root out police corruption.
Which is exactly why a commission of bipartisan outsiders would be a better choice, imho. Yet earlier, you stated that you were against the formation of this commission, citing "lack of teeth" and "potential waste of money" as your reasons for doing so. Since Washington clearly will not enact the course of action you suggested later in your post, imo this independant commission is the next best thing. It's certainly better than maintaining the status quo... and if there's even an outside chance that this group can devise a fair, practical and effective solution, I can't see why anyone would not want such a thing.
In effect, the President's decision to form this commission by executive order signals to me, John Q Public, that he's not willing to accept stalemate and gridlock as an option for us. Any president who takes the initiative to at least try for a solution gets the benefit of my doubt.
You said it yourself, in the paragraph I just quoted- Congress cannot be trusted to do this thing correctly. It would seem that the POTUS agrees with you... even though you disagree with his appointing a committee.
Still tryin to wrap my brain around that one....
YTown: as I see it, this commission has the the potential of offering up some real solutions to these pressing problems. If they present a credible package of ideas and solutions that make sense, it then becomes the responsibilty of the public itself to bring pressure upon congress to do the right thing. In essence, WE are the teeth in this commission. It will be as strong or as weak as our support will allow. If a congressman sees support for the initiatives from the grassroots, he'll be faced with a choice: do the right thing or start looking for a new job.
If this bunch can make some decisions based on common sense, then I'll make sure my representatives know I support it. If they fail, we're no worse off than if we didn't try at all.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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You said it yourself, in the paragraph I just quoted- Congress cannot be trusted to do this thing correctly. It would seem that the POTUS agrees with you... even though you disagree with his appointing a committee.
Maybe I'm just cynical... but then why form a committee and chair it with people who have been in politics for 20+ years just because they are now both retired from it? Both of their fathers were in politics too if I remember correctly.... Just because one is a D and the other an R, does that mean we are going to get anything other than a "political outcome" to this? Asking former politicians to provide recommendations to current politicians seems a bit disingenuous to me... go get business leaders, get academics, get Joe the plumber and a housewife.... get anybody BUT former politicians....
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My take on the whole thing? There is no desire by congress to cut the deficit, let alone the debt. However, there is a HUGE desire to make it look like they are trying (their jobs is the desire - gotta look good in the sound bites and what not).
As ytown alluded to - there is but one way, and ONLY one way to reduce the deficit, and then work on the debt. Ready for it? Drastically cut spending, and raise taxes. But don't raise taxes in order to spend more - I would have no problem paying a bit more IF it was going to the debt - not the deficit - the DEBT.
My guess is most others would go along with that.
The problem though, is reducing spending. Everyone wants spending cut as long as it doesn't affect them - you and me included. Does, or will, congress have the nads to make the tough choice? No - they don't, and they won't.
How can you cut what your voters expect?
Here's where we are: we are "borrowing" money from ourselves (our country is "borrowing" from itself - the country that doesn't have enough money to pay for itself right now) There absolutely WILL be pain involved if this country is to ever turn itself around. Pain today, or even greater pain tomorrow. Our gov't. is saying "better to have alot of pain tomorrow than to face today's reality".
And for the macs of the board - notice I didn't use republican, democrat, conservative or liberal. I placed no blame on any individual, any party, any presidency, etc. (course, mac will still blame everything on Bush......but he's wired that way).
Look at it like this: you have cancer in your finger - it's a cancer that will kill you in time. You can cut off your finger today and deal with the pain, or you can wait. If you wait - next month you'll need to cut off your arm to survive. If you don't do that, within a year it will be your finger, your arm, AND your shoulder. The pain is much worse the longer you wait.
Will congress finally step up? No, they won't.
Not sure who's idea it was, but in this thread someone mentioned having cpa's and business people go through the budget - I'd love that. My guess is they would find hundreds of billions of dollars that could be cut - but some people would lose jobs, and some people would find their monthly gov't. check missing - and consequently, congress wouldn't have the nads to act.
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Our gov't. is saying "better to have alot of pain tomorrow than to face today's reality".
Actually, it's the EXACT same thing that the executives of General Motors did for decades.
They've known since the 70's that the path they were on was unsustainable and would eventually bite the company in the ass.
But they ALL looked at the painful process of taking the proper steps and viewed it as "they can worry about that after my time here.... I'll keep things rolling as-is and collect the fat check and not risk my job".
There is absolutely ZERO difference between them... and ironically, they even got to whine about each of them taking jets to a function. Karma's a bitch.
The point is: The fate of GM - a crash of epic proportions under unwieldy debt and expenditures - is what awaits the U.S.; the only question is "When?" and pretty much every elected official in Washington is betting that it won't be during a time when they'll need to be the one to worry about it.
The worst part is that every single one of them IS the ones that need to face it so that what everyone in the world can see coming never gets here.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The point is: The fate of GM - a crash of epic proportions under unwieldy debt and expenditures - is what awaits the U.S.; the only question is "When?"
And who will be there to bail US out?
yebat' Putin
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The kind souls of the EU & China?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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1. Where did I say republicans didn't do it? Oh, that's right, I didn't say that.
Is that the best you got.. Deny that your comment wasn't a slam yet say nothing about both sides being guilty of the same actions?
I never said the other side wasn't guilty. I've said it many times and don't feel the need to preface every post it.
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2. Is that the best comeback liberals have? "Well the other side does it too!"
I'm not a liberal,, never have been, don't see me ever becoming one.. More of a guy who lives in the center and leans either right or left depending on subject matter.
I bet you didn't vote for Obama either, huh?
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Just because the other side does it, doesn't justify what Obama is currently doing.
Not to me it doesn't.. But to NOT admit that both sides do it is like saying only one side does.. Be fair.. not like the US Media...Tell both sides,, not one,,, not just yours..
I commented on an Obama quote in the article. Simple facts are that every time Obama opens his mouth, he blames Bush for something. You seem to have an issue with me picking on your precious messiah. You complain that I am not being fair, yet you completely ignore all of mac's one sided arguments. While you are preaching about being "fair", why don't you do the same?
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Perhaps you didn't read my post. Perhaps you need to beef up on reading comprehension.
Further, perhaps you haven't read anything I have written lately about politics. I'm not a fan of EITHER party at this point. I agree more with the supposed conservative values of the Republican Party ...... but they've hardly held to anything remotely resembling conservatism lately.
ytown...Not a thing wrong with my reading comprehension...
If ever someone was trying to sit the GOP fence...you are!
It's a hard pill for some to swallow when someone points out the truth..that the GOP party has not been "conservative" for nearly a decade or longer..thatgoes for values and economics.
You try to slide by, saying the GOP has not been conservative "lately"?....define "lately" for us.
You say you are not a fan of either party...then say you agree with the conservative GOP....trying to paint yourself as a middle of the road type, but admit, you are a conservative...(even though the GOP is not conservative...lol)
CONGRESS is supposed to be the body that examines and assembles the budget. In fact, they are the body with that responsibility. They debate aspects of the budget where they can make political hay ...... they exchanges allocations of funds for votes ...... they include paybacks for political favors ......
Like I said, concerning your claim that CONGRESS is supposed to be the debt commission...tell everyone how that has been working out for the American people, for the last decade or so...
The fact is, CONGRESS can't, won't and have no intention of performing as a debt commission...because most our elected officials are OWNED by special interests...bought and paid for by special interests who donate to our politicians campaigns to help them get re-elected.
BTW, the Supreme Court, just insured a continuation of the corruption that is rampant in American politics by claiming money is speech and corporations and unions are entitled to speak louder than "any voter" in America. The vote was 5-4 with the "conservative" majority all voting to allow the further the corruption of American elections.
Do corporations vote?
This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue ..... it's a broken political system issue. BOTH parties are responsible, liable, and guilty. I fail to see how appointing Senators and Congressmen .... who are responsible for the federal budget deficit/debt debacle to start with, is going to solve anything. It's like appointing a crooked cop to root out police corruption.
YTOWN...I'm not sure you understand...the debt commission that would have been composed of Repugs and Dims was voted down by Repugs and Dims.
The debt commission Obama is establishing will be headed by former
White House chief of staff Erskine Bowles and former Republican Senate Whip Alan Simpson...
Obama appointing a debt commission is a step in the right direction. If Congress will not perform their oversight duties, then the next best thing is appointing a commission made up of serious Americans who are not bought and paid for.
Now you can go back to pretending you are not a hardcore supporter of the GOP...
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As ytown alluded to - there is but one way, and ONLY one way to reduce the deficit, and then work on the debt. Ready for it? Drastically cut spending, and raise taxes. But don't raise taxes in order to spend more - I would have no problem paying a bit more IF it was going to the debt - not the deficit - the DEBT.
arch...So "finally" you admit, allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire, is needed if we are serious about digging this country out of the mess that has been created over the past decade.
I have no problem with spending cuts...it's all on the table...if we Americans are serious about getting this country back to a sound foundation, economically.
I do believe this country needs to take a look at a flat tax as part of the solution.
And for the macs of the board - notice I didn't use republican, democrat, conservative or liberal. I placed no blame on any individual, any party, any presidency, etc. (course, mac will still blame everything on Bush......but he's wired that way).
arch...you can call me a democrat or a liberal...I have no problem with it.
You say you place "no blame" on any individual or party...I just went back and read some of your posts...this is going to be a big time challenge for "you", especially if you allow yourself to be lead by your radical rw talking heads...taking control of your thinking process and not allowing someone else to think for you and tell you what to say and do might be a difficult for you.
You say you place "no blame" on any individual or party...but, will hold your party responsible for what they have done?...for their actions in the past, present and future?
As for me continuing to blame Bush because I'm wired that way...I WILL CONTINUE TO TELL THE TRUTH.
ARCH...BTW...I had been a registered GOPer almost as long as you have been alive before I switched parties 2 yrs ago...it is time for Americans to reconsider what and who they support, IMO.
Last edited by mac; 02/19/10 10:59 AM.
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before I switched parties 2 yrs ago
I have known you a lot longer than 2 years, so the BS flag gets tossed on that one.
Richard Nixon might have been the last republican you voted for.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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arch...So "finally" you admit, allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire, is needed if we are serious about digging this country out of the mess that has been created over the past decade.
Hold on, hold on, hold on - YOU were the one saying letting the tax cuts expire was NOT raising taxes - but now you think it is? Make up your mind mac.
Also - I said I wouldn't mind paying more IF.......IF IF our gov't. did 2 things: CUT gov't. spending to a level where there would be no annual deficit, AND use the increased taxes to reduce our debt. Got it? Until then, I want my money in my pocket - no more "tax and spend even more" scenarios.
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I have no problem with spending cuts...it's all on the table...if we Americans are serious about getting this country back to a sound foundation, economically.
Agreed.
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I do believe this country needs to take a look at a flat tax as part of the solution.
As long as it's for everyone, I'm all for it.
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You say you place "no blame" on any individual or party...I just went back and read some of your posts...this is going to be a big time challenge for "you", especially if you allow yourself to be lead by your radical rw talking heads...taking control of your thinking process and not allowing someone else to think for you and tell you what to say and do might be a difficult for you.
I'm not lead by anyone. You seem to have difficulty grasping that concept. See, I can think and reason all by myself.......my ideas are MY ideas - I can't help it if some others agree with me, OR disagree. Perhaps the ones that agree with me are following me.
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You say you place "no blame" on any individual or party...but, will hold your party responsible for what they have done?...for their actions in the past, present and future?
You just don't get it, do you? Here's a novel thought - READ and comprehend what I have written. It should be simple to figure out. For most.
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ARCH...BTW...I had been a registered GOPer almost as long as you have been alive before I switched parties 2 yrs ago...it is time for Americans to reconsider what and who they support, IMO.
Fantastic. Here's another little point you obviously don't get - I couldn't care less what you are registered as. Honestly. "registering" as something means absolutely diddly squat to me. Nothing. I don't care what you WERE registered as, what you currently are registered as, or what you may some day be registered as - honestly, all that does is ...........oh, yeah - nothing.
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this is going to be a big time challenge for "you", especially if you allow yourself to be lead by your radical rw talking heads...taking control of your thinking process and not allowing someone else to think for you and tell you what to say and do might be a difficult for you.
mac you post article after article on a variety of political topics.. oddly enough, all of them make points that you espouse as your own. So are you being "led" by these, primarily main stream to left wing, publications that you cite? Aren't they really doing the thinking and you are doing the nodding and shouting of the occassional "Amen brother"? ..... Sure seems like it.
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