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i am sure that Holmgren likes Tebow as a person. if you've seen him in interviews and such, it is really hard not to root for the guy. then, ESPN makes it easier  seriously though, he's going to work his butt off no matter what and I would be shocked if he was any type of disruptiion to a team (other than the extra media coverage he has no control over). the problem is that I do not think he can step in and be a QB. many others do not either. and unless we have some type of super-wildcat system we are thinking about with a crazy amount of QB-running and trickery for a NFL system, it's going to be a bumpy ride with him; at least initially (with the old 2-HBack set w/ Cribbs as the single back and Tebow at QB and Hillis and Harrison as those H-Backs)
#gmstrong
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The Great Prophecy must come true...
As it is, the Browns are already better just for spending 5 or 20 minutes with him.
Last edited by Ammo; 03/18/10 10:52 AM.
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People were up in arms after taking a project LB in Veikune in the 2nd round last year but it's OK to take a project QB in the late 1st or 2nd round this year?
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Quote:
People were up in arms after taking a project LB in Veikune in the 2nd round last year but it's OK to take a project QB in the late 1st or 2nd round this year?
These are my thoughts as well.
I really hope the Browns pass on Tebus and go with someone who is more polished. Or go a different position in the higher rounds.
you had a good run Hank.
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Or, is this the creme-de-la creme of smokescreens ?
I don't know, but we'll find out in about 35 or so days 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
People were up in arms after taking a project LB in Veikune in the 2nd round last year but it's OK to take a project QB in the late 1st or 2nd round this year?
Every QB is a project.
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How true,... 
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the problem is that I do not think he can step in and be a QB. many others do not either.
Yeah, most of the talking heads and some of the GM's and HC's have said similar things.. That he's a project and will need some development time.
ESPN was saying yesterday that the worst place for him is Jacksonville because the fans will go nuts if he isn't played from day one and that that could hurt his development.. What ticks me off about Jacksonville fans is, they have a decent QB and a pretty decent team overall.. and I like thier coach also. Yet, they can't fill up the stadium.. HUGE mistake putting a franchise in that town.. they simply don't support nor deserve one.. JMO
But Dang it,, the kid is a winner.. people that say otherwise, simply haven't paid any attention.
Not that that guarantees success in the NFL.. But it's a damn fine start.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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But Dang it,, the kid is a winner.. people that say otherwise, simply haven't paid any attention.
So is every other College QB. Krenzel, Dorsey, Leak, Weinke, Grossman, Carr, Couch, Etc.. In fact I think its harder to find a QB that isn't a "winner".  
I understand what your saying/getting at though.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I am not against drafting Tim Tebow. And with all of our QB movement it seems like it is more likely we will draft him.
How does this affect Joe Thomas? Tebow being a lefty makes right tackle protect the QB's blindside. Does Thomas switch positions if Tebow ends up starting?
I'm still hoping for Dan LeFevour, but I won't be upset with Tebow.
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Quote:
I am not against drafting Tim Tebow. And with all of our QB movement it seems like it is more likely we will draft him.
How does this affect Joe Thomas? Tebow being a lefty makes right tackle protect the QB's blindside. Does Thomas switch positions if Tebow ends up starting?
I'm still hoping for Dan LeFevour, but I won't be upset with Tebow.
I don't think Thomas would move to the right side.
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j/c
i'm pretty happy about us taking a look at him. if they decided there's enough there, i have no problem with them using a 2nd or a 3rd on the guy. mangini/MH know what they're doing.
that said, it's crazy but if i compare tebow to quinn from all non-quarterback issues, it's interesting. both are very religious, both are supposed to be extremely hard workers, etc. but...i like tebow so much more. it has nothing to do with where they went to school (making that clear oorah), but listening to both talk, it's so obvious that quinn says what he does because he knows it's the smart thing to say (resulting in him sounding extremely fake) whereas, when you listen to tebow, he just sounds like a genuine guy with genuine morals. hell, you don't go tou built wells and junk during your free time for the publicity. just an interesting side note. like holmgren said, you can't not root for the guy.
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Quote:
I am not against drafting Tim Tebow. And with all of our QB movement it seems like it is more likely we will draft him.
How does this affect Joe Thomas? Tebow being a lefty makes right tackle protect the QB's blindside. Does Thomas switch positions if Tebow ends up starting?
I'm still hoping for Dan LeFevour, but I won't be upset with Tebow.
I respect your opinion on these boards but I can't ever see this scenario ever playing out that. IMO, I can only see Tebow landing with the Browns if he becomes a value pick and it won't be to compete for QB.
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Analyst: Tim Tebow shows 'ridiculous' improvement at pro day workout
Tim Tebow showed marked improvement in his pro day workout on Wednesday, analysts said, far out-performing his lackluster Senior Bowl.
"From the Senior Bowl to now, the improvement is ridiculous," NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock told the Sporting News. "I was blown away."
The Sporting News reported that Tebow has an individual workout scheduled with at least five teams -- the Bills, Seahawks, Patriots, Browns and Redskins.
Tebow was knocked for bad mechanics at January's Senior Bowl. Since then, he's been working with NFL-veteran coaches to improve his throwing motion and his skills under center. The result, coaches and scouts said, was a quarterback who might be able to thrive as a pro.
"He didn't revert to any of his old habits today; he really had a nice day," Zeke Bratkowski, who's been working with Tebow, told the Sporting News. "People are talking about other positions with him. He's a quarterback. He's where he should be right now." -- Sean Leahy
web page
I can't believe I posted that...
Ammo, ballpeen, Damanshot, that was for you. Have at it.
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I'm no QB passing mechanics guru.......but I've heard from a few people within the NFL that say his changed mechanics won't mean much if he reverts back to his old ways when 4-to-6 NFL bodies are rushing at him at full speed while trying read a defense and make a throw. It's all warm and fuzzy to see him make some nice tosses at a Pro Day but who knows what happens in a real game situation.
Of course, the same goes with most players that will be drafted next month (does their college game translate to the NFL, can their negatives be corrected and really be forgotton, are they game-fast or track-fast).
I don't envy GM's right now.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I read on ESPN Insider that deep into his workout, when he was trying to throw some harder balls, he reverted back to his old delivery four times.
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I read on ESPN Insider that deep into his workout, when he was trying to throw some harder balls, he reverted back to his old delivery four times.
Well that should drop him to round 6 or 7.
As Holmgren was quoted....he may not even need to change.
say he splits the difference and finds something half way....it's still more than good enough.
Steve Young dropped his arm....Tebow will go no later than early 2nd round....and probably in round 1.
At least we are smart enough to get a 1 on 1 look.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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If Tebow is on the board when we pick in the second round, we will take him.
Tim Tebow has the same ( I mean SAME) pre draft hype that Randy Moss had.
Randy Moss was selected somewhere between tenth and 25th in the first round, don't remember, but went to a team with 3 WR's already (Minn) and IN HIS ROOKIE YEAR was in the top 3 players of touchdowns by a receiver.
Tebow is going to be better than Alex Smith, better than David Carr, better than Aaron Rodgers, better than almost anybody to come along since Eli Manning.
There is NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WAY HE IS THERE IN ROUND 2
Jason Campbell did not last past late into round 1
Matt Jones, who wasn't going to play QB, did not last into round 2
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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So is every other College QB. Krenzel, Dorsey, Leak, Weinke, Grossman, Carr, Couch, Etc.. In fact I think its harder to find a QB that isn't a "winner".
True,, but not on the scale or level of Tebow..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm on board the Tebow express or id be happy with Le Flavor flav.
Tebow will not start this year if he is drafted by us. That will give him plenty of time to make his release trasition complete.
I think MH will go for Tebow early in this draft. He might even trade up to the end of the first depending on what other teams are going for him- to make sure he gets him. I think that is why he is also hoarding more picks.He wants to get his QB of the future this year and let him sit and learn for a year.
MH has made waaaayyy too many comments indirectly related to Tebow.
I don't have time to post them all at the moment however everything from him not working out at the combine to what has already been posted.
JMHO.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Tim Tebow has the same ( I mean SAME) pre draft hype that Randy Moss had.
Randy Moss was selected somewhere between tenth and 25th in the first round, don't remember, but went to a team with 3 WR's already (Minn) and IN HIS ROOKIE YEAR was in the top 3 players of touchdowns by a receiver.
Yeah, I mean we can compare a QB to a WR and really justify what will transpire.. 
What length will U guys go to to prove a point????
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No way in hell is Tebow a better QB than Aaron Rogers, but I get your point. Somebody will go all in with TT, and it could certainly happen in the first round. However, one encouraging workout isn't going to erase all the question marks overnight and it would not surprise me at all if he lasts until the second round.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Peen, I really hope for your sake this turns out better for you than it did for Diam when he told everyone what he thought of Quinn. My take on Tebow is that he is a huge risk to any coaching staff. Now a days in the NFL coaches don't even get 3 years to turn things around. It's a league of what have you done for me lately. I see Tim as a big work in progress. Not only is he changing his mechanics but he has to also go through the big learning curve of adjusting to the NFL game. Then the fact he didn't play in a pro style offense at Florida he has to familiarize himself with that part of the game. He has a lot more to work on than a kid with good mechanics who just has to learn the offense and get used to the speed of the game. I'm not saying he can't do it but by the time he is ready his rookie contract will be up and teams will have to make another decision on him without ever really getting the chance to see what he can do. By that time he will probably have a different HC than the guy who drafted him. I would take a shot on Tim in the 5th or 6th round but he won't last that long. Someone who has more faith in him than I do will take the shot much sooner than that. I would bet he is valued differently on so many more boards than any other prospect. Some think he is great. Others see a huge project. Not many other guys are viewed so differently. It will be very interesting to not only see where he gets drafted but how that team uses him and grooms him as far as being the QB of the future.
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Quote:
Quote:
So is every other College QB. Krenzel, Dorsey, Leak, Weinke, Grossman, Carr, Couch, Etc.. In fact I think its harder to find a QB that isn't a "winner".
True,, but not on the scale or level of Tebow..
how can you say Ken Dorsey was less of a winner than Tebow in college?
#gmstrong
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Peen, I really hope for your sake this turns out better for you than it did for Diam when he told everyone what he thought of Quinn.
I am not worried about that and am very convinced it will work out better.....and really, Quinn hasn't played out, so Diam shouldn't get the hook just yet.
People talk about a practice not being able to erase all the questions....well, the questions can't erase what he has done.
He is going to be a good Pro QB....real good.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
What length will U guys go to to prove a point????
Hmm,, that depends,, what lengths will you go to to disprove one?
I'm in a chain yanking mood today I guess 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Look at it this way....look at what he has done by being a suck ass qb who can't throw. Think how much better he can get with just a little work.....really...
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't see the thinking of trading down to later in the first to take the player.
He has 5 workouts scheduled, if you plan to take him you need to get him at 7 or higher or there is a likely chance he won't be there.
If you don't mind that he won't be there then you don't plane to take him in the first place.
The advantage to trade down, ( AS I know I have aruged in the past ) is to get more picks. The Browns have 12 picks now and don't need that many because the selections won't make the roster. Unless there are injuries.
Someone has said they had a nightmare, that they drafted Tebow with SuH and ? and ? still on the board.
Defensive players can take the ball away but whoever you have at quarterback touches the ball on every offensive play. Even if Suh turns into a Lawrence Taylor, you can live without that.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Oddly it took that post for me to understand that the idea of Tebow falling even into the second (much less the third) is absolutely absurd.
Josh Freeman was taken at 17 by Tampa last year.
Pat White was taken at 44 by Miami.
Is Tim Tebow better than Pat White? Probably.
Is Tim Tebow better than Josh Freeman? I have no idea.
Somewhere between 17 and 44 makes sense to me.
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Hmm,, that depends,, what lengths will you go to to disprove one? Fortunately for me ,I'm logical and won't be sucked into a over-the-top- trying- to- level -the- playing field comparison as what I just saw..U however probably already yanked and grabbed hold of that weak link..didn't U? Long Throw: " I don't see the thinking of trading down to later in the first to take the player.Someone has said they had a nightmare, that they drafted Tebow with SuH and ? and ? still on the board.
Defensive players can take the ball away but whoever you have at quarterback touches the ball on every offensive play. Even if Suh turns into a Lawrence Taylor, you can live without that."
U must be on some powerful stuff to have posted that..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/18/10 02:05 PM.
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Peen, I think you know that I've not shut the door on Tebow at all.. That's not to say that I believe he's the second coming either.
To me it comes down to this.
He's competitive.. maybe the most of any QB coming out this year.
He's A good Guy.. That's not to say that others aren't...
He's got great Character,.,, Not that that guarantees anything on the field
He's got Arm Strength... Some have more, others have less, but he's got enough
He's smart....
He appears to be very very coachable
He seems willing to do anything he's asked to do
He's worked hard and in 6 weeks, if you believe what GMs and Coachs say, he's made great strides with his drop backs and how and where he holds the ball. If he made that much progress in 6 weeks, what could happen with a year of tutoring under his belt?
He seems willing to work hard to make the required adjustments to his game.
Anyone can list a bunch of things they don't like about him,, but in reality, the difference is, some folks think, that with time and hard work, he can fix any flaws... others still, don't believe he can...
That's what it comes down to in my eyes.. you either believe he can or can't change to be better in the NFL...
I'm fairly convinced that he's capable of making it in the NFL.. as a QB.. Just my Opinion...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All this stuff about his throwing motion is getting a little overblown, imo.
The truth about Tebow's draftability will come out when he comes to Cleveland. Just based on interviews and past reports, I have no doubt the Browns will be putting him through his paces, especially mentally. They'll determine whether he has the mental faculties to excel in the pro game at quarterback or not as they watch film with him and get a sense of his ability to dissect a defense and learn an offense.
It's kind of funny watching all the 'experts' on here make such definitive opinions on him without having even the slightest idea on how well he'll be able to process that kind of information.
Personally, I love his attitude and work ethic. Whether its football, or business, he seems like the kind of person that will work as hard as it takes to succeed in whatever he's trying to do. Sometimes I think people still don't weight a players' character as much as they should.
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Quote:
Tebow is going to be better than Alex Smith, better than David Carr, better than Aaron Rodgers, better than almost anybody to come along since Eli Manning.
Have you seen Aaron Rodgers play?
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All this QB talk is astounding to me. I know we will draft one somewhere this year, because we need one for the future, but all the positive talk about Tebow from Berea is disconcerting. IF we draft a QB in the 1st round, or trade up and draft Bradford #1 I will be dissappointed considering that this will likely be the last time the top ten picks in the draft will be able to retire off of the guaranteed money in their first contract. Your probably talking 65Million, 45 guaranteed, for the first pick in this year draft. I will be shocked if we spend this kind of money this year. And to think some are talking about taking Tebow at #7 If the new regime executes something as mind boggling as this I think I will pretty much just give up all hope that this team will turn around sometime in the near future. I sincerely hope this is all smoke and mirrors!
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Well, I never said we should take him in the first,, in fact, I don't remember saying we should take him at all...
I was just pointing out a few things that made sense to me..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yes I have seen Aaron Rodgers play.
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Peen.........I honestly do think MH really likes him. If he's there in the 2nd we might take him, and if he's there at the top of the 3rd (which is a possibility) I all but guarantee we take him.
You know my opinion and I know yours, but all that really matters is the FO.........and they seem to really like him. The good news with Timmah is your getting a kid who is a great leader, and if he doesn't pan out as a QB he's got the skills to be productive elsewhere.
I guess I'm saying this to say although we disagree on his prospects as a QB, I would have ZERO problems getting him over any of the other 2nd tier QB projects. Mainly because he has more upside imo, and because if he doesn't pan out he can play somewhere else. I just don't want to spend a 1st rounder on a project when we have holes everywhere.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
Quote:
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So is every other College QB. Krenzel, Dorsey, Leak, Weinke, Grossman, Carr, Couch, Etc.. In fact I think its harder to find a QB that isn't a "winner".
True,, but not on the scale or level of Tebow..
how can you say Ken Dorsey was less of a winner than Tebow in college?
He must have missed this so I'll requote it
I hear he's a winner, hard worker, humble, great college player and a smart guy. He's just another Tyler freakin hansbrough. The only difference between the 2 is the sports they play. Oh yeah Hanbrough should be in the D-league right now for the garbage stats he's puting up with a crappy team. Tebow will share the same fate as him of being nothing more then a great college player.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Timmy Tebow to unveil new delivery
at Pro Day
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