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http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/video/testing-toyota-9914148Toyota has an absolute MESS on their hands. Glad I drive American products. In other news, GM is going to announce a 3rd shift at the Lordstown plant tomorrow for the car that is in my final 3 among cars I'm looking at, the Chevy Cruze!
Last edited by Ammo; 02/22/10 10:51 PM.
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I was reading an article a week or so ago (think it was in USA Today) and found an interesting piece of information. European manufacturers have been putting fail safes in for 15-20 years that will not allow the throttle to be opened while the brakes are engaged. Basically, if the throttle body is open and brakes are pressed simultaneously, the car will not allow it to happen. I tried in in my 2007 Audi A8 just for kicks and sure enough if I had the accelerator pressed and hit the brakes the engine RPM dropped significantly. No American or Japanese manufacturers have this failsafe mechanism according to the article. editThis isn't the article I was referring to, but it states that most German cars have the brake throttle override and it actually has a video showing it. http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com/2009/11/brake-override-feature-on-all-toyota.html
Last edited by ColumbusDawg; 02/22/10 11:07 PM.
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I'll bet they're REAL glad the memo got out about "....saving $100 million by " basically, not fixing the problem - convincing others there was no problem.
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I'll bet they're REAL glad the memo got out about "....saving $100 million by " basically, not fixing the problem - convincing others there was no problem.
True. Also...this kind of validates the seriousness of this matter and that Congress isn't merely blowing this out of proportion to promote "Government Motors." 
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Yup, Toyota has even launched a new PR Ad Campaign.... "to re-earn your trust".
As for the Chevy Cruze..... If I'm not mistaken, that is the model of vehicle that the Government placed a massive order for several months back as part of the "simulus/bailout". I'd bet that the 3rd shift is temporary to fill that order.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Things are getting worse it would appear.
They're not getting better.
Purp: I wouldn't be surprised if the government ordered a ton of Cruzes to replenish their fleet. But, the Cruze is going to be that damn good of a car. It already is in other countries and the U.S. is getting the best version of it. (If only we got the diesels...)
Last edited by Ammo; 02/23/10 08:19 AM.
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One of my friends sent that to me the other day, lol.
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Quote:
Quote:
Things are getting worse it would appear.
They're not getting better.
Purp: I wouldn't be surprised if the government ordered a ton of Cruzes to replenish their fleet. But, the Cruze is going to be that damn good of a car. It already is in other countries and the U.S. is getting the best version of it. (If only we got the diesels...)
TWO Cruze Diesels 
I <3 Jalopnik.
From the article:
What would you say if we told you GM's putting another, more miserly diesel in its Euro-spec Chevy Cruze? What if we told you it got 33 MPG city, 50 MPG highway? We expect no 'merican would even be interested.
The new diesel is a 2.0-liter four with 123 HP and 221 lb-ft of torque with a bit less grunt than the 147 HP diesel unit, but even more frugal, with UK pricing starting at only £13,745 on-the-road. Of course, we know if GM had the gumption to bring the diesel Cruze to the US, it would have to be fitted with crazy emissions equipment, but it would more than likely still be a fair bit less than the Prius, so you know, that's depressing.
From the press release:
The new 125PS VCDi powerplant complements the range-topping 150PS unit, and starts from only £13,745 on-the-road.
It delivers impressive performance, with 0-60mph attainable in 10.3 seconds and a top speed of 122mph, yet at the same time it offers excellent fuel economy, with a combined mpg figure of 51.4. This increases to 61.4mpg on the extra-urban cycle, with an urban economy figure of 40.4mpg. CO2 emissions are 145g/km, meaning an annual road tax bill at current rates of £125.
From me:
Twenty years ago, the hottest cop car from Chevrolet at the time was the Caprice. It was a bit bigger and had the same performance stats, but got EPA city/hwy 14/20 mpg. The Lumina of the time was more the Cruze's size, but it was even slower (~110mph) and only got 24 mpg overall.
Now, you have a Cruze that can do 120 plus and get 40mpg, and almost be as big as a Lumina (W-body). It would make a neat urban patrol car, like in NYC. Beef up the frame rails and give it a heavy-duty oil- and trans-cooler.
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Cruze SS!!!!!!!!! With Hugger Orange stripes, a la '67 Camaro.
Beware, there are some negative comments on this site about GM. But it looks like a cool car.
Last edited by Referee2; 02/24/10 06:17 AM.
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Just clicking Quote:
GM bringing back 1,200 autoworkers at Lordstown plant
By Associated Press business staff
February 23, 2010, 1:00PM
View full size
John Kuntz, The Plain DealerChevrolet Cobalts were on the assembly line at GM's Lordstown plant in September. Soon the plant will switch to building the Cobalt's replacement, the Cruze. GM officials say they will have an announcement about their Lordstown production plans Tuesday.
Previous coverage
Feb. 22, 2010: GM may be ready to add third shift at Lordstown as Cruze rollout nears UPDATED: 1:08 p.m.
LORDSTOWN, Ohio -- General Motors Corp. said today it is bringing 1,200 autoworkers back to work this summer to start producing the Chevrolet Cruze compact car at a factory in northeast Ohio.
About 300 laid-off GM workers in the area will be brought back first, and the remaining jobs at the Lordstown factory will be open to GM employees across the U.S., said Diana Tremblay, GM's head of manufacturing.
The jobs will be added to a third assembly-line shift sometime in the third quarter.
The Cruze, due out later this year, is a key product for GM as it tries to compete in the growing market for small cars. Production was recently put on hold because GM wasn't happy with how it drove.
The Lordstown factory, about 50 miles southeast of Cleveland, also makes the Chevrolet Cobalt small car.
With the additional jobs, the plant's work force will grow from 3,300 to 4,500.
The sleeker, lighter car will be targeted at younger entry-level buyers as well as those seeking fuel economy. It's supposed to get around 40 mpg on the highway.
But GM postponed the Cruze's April build date because the company wasn't happy with its performance, especially with the six-speed automatic transmission.
Since July, GM has said it is restoring a total of 5,500 jobs at plants across the nation.
© 2010 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
Nice to hear some good news for a change
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/gm_adding_1200_autoworkers_at.html
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Cruze SS!!!!!!!!! With Hugger Orange stripes, a la '67 Camaro.
Beware, there are some negative comments on this site about GM. But it looks like a cool car.
I love my GTO to death after 4 years and can't think of any car I'd give it up for that wasn't rear mid engined. That speaks alot considering how long I've had it, the problems I've come across with, and the cars of this type that have come out since then. Of course throwing headers/exhaust/intake helps add 30 hp and a nice exhaust note :P
GM needs to have a nice low end portfolio. If they can make cars like the Cruze into cars people will pick over the japanese and low buck euro prospects, then in 5 years those buyers will remember their GM experiences when going for a notch above the entry level. Cadillac is nearing a renaissance with the CTS lineup, Chevy has some good mid and upper range lineups. But when first time buyers go for the japanese and euro models because they simply beat GM on bang for the buck, those buyers will prefer a Honda or Audi next go around due to their past experiences.
Ford is doing this right now. The Fusion looks AWESOME to a car guy like me, has the options and price you want. Then when someone goes up market into a Taurus you have the SHO waiting for you. People have multiple cars over their life just due to wear and tear so if you make good low buck cars, people will drift to your mid and upper cars, whether their buying new or used.
Last edited by Referee2; 02/24/10 06:18 AM.
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Thanks for mentioning us, gage. Signed, '86 Acura Legend '90 Lexus LS 400 '90 Infiniti Q45 I remember when the LS 400 came out. First grade. Beautiful car. Miles ahead of the DeVille, even with the 4.9 L V8 at the time. Toyota climbed the ladder and paid its dues from '73-89...by '90 the Camry and Cressida were great and they were able to make that next step. Same deal with Honda...buy a beat up Civic out of college, get a good job, get a nice-but-used Accord down the road, become president of a company and get an Acura NSX or something like that.
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Glad I drive American products.
Based on content or home office?
Toyota does indeed have a mess and they had better learn from what appears to be many mistakes. It's really a damn shame since they have provided quality products to consumers for so long. Heck the Toyota Production System has been appreciated by academics as well as manufacturering (thank you Dr. Deming).
Any malfeasance revealed by investigation should be effectively condemned, but I sincerely hope it doesn't destroy them.
When it is all said and done I tend to think that many manufacturers would be advised to study what went wrong. The are a host of elements in the design, implementation and corrective action (or lack thereof) of this that can offer opportunities to avoid future catastrophe. As an ISO auditor in the auto industry I can assure you that no company is immune to the production of serious quality problems.
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Quote:
Quote:
Glad I drive American products.
Based on content or home office?
No idea what that means.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Glad I drive American products.
Based on content or home office?
No idea what that means.
It was for the most part a direct question, but in an attempt to clarify....
American products = vehicles whose parts and assembly is for the most part built in America?
or
production from American owned companies?
or both?
As I said that question was direct for the most part, but I will admit it was a bit veiled. Such wholesale commitment to a product is certainly your choice, but I would offer that you are limiting yourself in choice of quality, price, design, etc etc
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Quote:
Ford is doing this right now. The Fusion looks AWESOME to a car guy like me, has the options and price you want. Then when someone goes up market into a Taurus you have the SHO waiting for you. People have multiple cars over their life just due to wear and tear so if you make good low buck cars, people will drift to your mid and upper cars, whether their buying new or used.
Being a life long Ford fanatic I agree. I did however just purchase my first foreign car ever - a 2007 Audi A8. My other vehicles are a 2000 Excursion Diesel and a 1993 Mustang Cobra along with my 65 Cobra kit car - love the Fords and always will.
I went and drove a Taurus SHO and it is a very nice car, but 45k for a Taurus? Too many other cars in that price range and I rarely buy new (in fact never have) anyhow. Since I was teetering on spending that kind of money on a car, I decided to go and test drive a BMW 7-series; my dream car since I was about 10 years old. I cannot afford a new one, but the 07 models were in the same range as the Taurus. Needless to say, it is a very nice car but I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Since the dealership also sells Audi's I went and drove an '07 A8 - what an amazing car. I ended up buying it that day - only 20k miles and an extended warranty of 3 more years or until I hit 100k miles.
Anyhow, I promise I am going to relate this back to Ford....
There were some things that needed to be fixed (new tires, alignment, iPod adapter added) and they gave me an A4 loaner. The Ford Fusion blows the A4 away, especially when you get to price. If the choice was between the A4 and Fusion, the Fusion wins hands down.
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best fords in my opinion: 89-91 SHO with 5-speed. After that, they got fatter and slower. 6.6 seconds vs. 6.8-7.2 for the newer ones. 80-96 Ford F-100/F-150 with 4.9 liter I-6. More torque than the 302. Need I say more? 95-98 Windstar. Everything else after that? Garbage, including the Freestar rebadge deal. 1st Gen Windstars were built with quality...we had a 98 with a bigger driver side door. 95-00 Contour. 0.82g on the skidpad and 70-0 braking, per C/D. It could handle almost as well as a Stang even with a I-4 Zetec 5speed...Better than a Taurus. Put an SVT engine in there and you have something that can hang with a '93 Cobra. (not the newer ones) European Focii, esp. the Dunton ones...even your base ones could do 125-130 with the Zetec.
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Asian....
The Cruze....while bigger than the Cavalier/Cobalt it replaces...is hardly the size of the Monte Carlo/Lumina W bodies. I know becuase I drove both and have also sat in the Cruze. The Cruze however does compare more to the earlier Corsica/ Malibu in interior space while only growing ever so slightly from the Cavelier size...The same could be said of the new Malibu....while it replaces my Corsica...It has almost as much space inside as my Aurora.....almost.
Columbus...I am in the same boat that you are in...I looked at the Taurus. It was a nice car. I did not get to drive the SHO...but at it's price range(with the options I will be looking for...lol) I am looking elsewhere. I decided to go a little more sporty. Also in the used market.....Instead of the 7 series I looked at the BMW 550i The Audi A5 and A6, the Mercedes E Class....All fantasic and fine vehicles....but believe it or not, I am pushing for the Cadillac STS. I found the ride to be just short of the BMW with all the amenities I could want. And since it is the forgotten Cadillac, I can get a great price on a car that may have cost as much as 70K new. It is well made and being GM, it will cost less to maintain than the others...And for the most part I am find them a year or so newer as well, which means a longer certified warranty...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
Asian....
The Cruze....while bigger than the Cavalier/Cobalt it replaces...is hardly the size of the Monte Carlo/Lumina W bodies. I know becuase I drove both and have also sat in the Cruze. The Cruze however does compare more to the earlier Corsica/ Malibu in interior space while only growing ever so slightly from the Cavelier size...The same could be said of the new Malibu....while it replaces my Corsica...It has almost as much space inside as my Aurora.....almost.
Columbus...I am in the same boat that you are in...I looked at the Taurus. It was a nice car. I did not get to drive the SHO...but at it's price range(with the options I will be looking for...lol) I am looking elsewhere. I decided to go a little more sporty. Also in the used market.....Instead of the 7 series I looked at the BMW 550i The Audi A5 and A6, the Mercedes E Class....All fantasic and fine vehicles....but believe it or not, I am pushing for the Cadillac STS. I found the ride to be just short of the BMW with all the amenities I could want. And since it is the forgotten Cadillac, I can get a great price on a car that may have cost as much as 70K new. It is well made and being GM, it will cost less to maintain than the others...And for the most part I am find them a year or so newer as well, which means a longer certified warranty...
\
check out a jaguar s type... I own one and picked up up dirt cheap and it is a heck of a good car! Price tag on a new one was 54 I got it for 12,100 with only 36k on it.
I average about 18mpg it has the 4.2L V-8, 300hp with 310 lb-ft of torque. 0-60 mph in 6.5 seconds. it handles very well in the corners especially with traction control and it has all the amenities you could ever want.
Meh.
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Don't care for the s type...LOL...just me...but I would love to check out the new XJ and the XF!!!!!!  
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Don't care for the s type...LOL...just me...but I would love to check out the new XJ and the XF!!!!!!
I drove those too prior to purchasing my Audi as well - loved them both. Great styling and great interior. I drive a lot (about 20k a year) and the major sticking point, as was with the 7-series BMW, is that it is only rear wheel drive. I believe Jaguar is coming out with an AWD model but I wouldn't be able to afford a new one, nor would I buy one new anyhow.
My 7 year old son of course liked the XK that I test drove, as did I. It just isn't as practical as a 4 door sedan and I'm already maxed out at unpractical vehicles even though my son seems to think otherwise.
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Toyota Dealer: The Media Is Causing Toyota’s ProblemsThe owner of four Toyota dealerships in the Washington, D.C. area, she takes the overnight shift, manning a 24-hour hotline she set up for customers who have questions about the Japanese auto maker’s recall of thousands of vehicles. At night, the calls are forwarded to her cellphone. She has extended hours in her repair shop to 5 a.m. (it normally closes at 11 p.m.) to accommodate the added repairs. Deal Journal spoke with Darvish as she was counting replacement parts that were arriving en masses at her stores to deal with the problems at the heart of the recalls. She says roughly 69,000 Toyotas on the U.S. roads today came from one of her dealerships. So far, her dealerships have made 1,070 repairs of sticky petals or floor mats believed to accidentally press on the accelerator. She has ordered about 4,000 replacement parts for additional repairs. As you might expect, Darvish, who has sold Toyotas for more than 20 years, is optimistic that the Japanese auto maker will be able to overcome the recall issue and regain its reputation. Deal Journal: How are sales? Tammy Darvish: (Laughing) It’s pretty limited. I’d love to blame it on the snowstorm down here in Washington, D.C., but I know there is probably another reason for it. DJ: Are you afraid of losing longstanding Toyota customers? Darvish: As long as we fix it right the first time and do whatever we can to make the inconvenience as minimal as possible, we can manage our customers. I sell GM cars also, and those customers would jump for 10 bucks. But Toyota customers are loyal. DJ: Toyota has been criticized for not being forth coming enough about the safety issues. Do you think that is true? Darvish: My experience is just the opposite. Toyota has communicated with me more about this recall than any other company has done for previous recalls. There have been thousands of recalls over the years from other companies. DJ: Why has there been so much criticism for the way Toyota has handled the recall issue? Darvish: I don’t want to minimize importance of any safety matter. But I think the media has made a sport out of sensationalizing something that is very common: a recall. I sell Chryslers, and they had 18 recalls last year. Did you read about any of those? DJ: Do you think the criticism is politically motivated? Darvish: I don’t know. I am a car salesman, not a politician. DJ: You met with a member of Congress on Tuesday. What did you talk about? Darvish: I met with Chris Van Hollen (D., Md.). His No. 1 concern was that customers are getting accurate information. That is why I post on my Web site everything that Toyota sends me. We are trying to provide objective information. It was only a few days ago that we finally were able to explain to people that sticky petal and floor mats are two different problems Link ----------------- Quote:
Darvish: I don’t want to minimize importance of any safety matter. But I think the media has made a sport out of sensationalizing something that is very common: a recall. I sell Chryslers, and they had 18 recalls last year. Did you read about any of those?
LOL! Were any of Chrysler's vehicles accelerating out of control? Talk about trying to downplay a very serious matter. Recalls are normal, but ones of this magnitude for such a serious safety issue are not.
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sticky petals
Damn, I hate when flowers get under my feet while I'm driving. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Uggh...I can't believe some people honestly think the Toyota scandal is politically motivated as a way to prop up "Government Motors" (I HATE THAT NAME).
Do we not see the evidence right in front of us???? Unreal...
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While Toyota did create their mess. I have no doubts that the government would take advantage of the situation to prop up government motors.
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While Toyota did create their mess. I have no doubts that the government would take advantage of the situation to prop up government motors.
General Motors
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I agree with Ammo, while I don't agree with what the government did it's still blue collar americans that are the lifeblood of the domestic auto industry. That said expect alot of soap box charades as reps defend their home constituents like Rep. Souder did, and alot of misinformation going about.
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Quote:
I agree with Ammo, while I don't agree with what the government did it's still blue collar americans that are the lifeblood of the domestic auto industry. That said expect alot of soap box charades as reps defend their home constituents like Rep. Souder did, and alot of misinformation going about.
Well that and the fact that GM has every intention of paying back the bailout with interest by the end of this year and I see the significant progress GM has made compared to their competition. Sit in any recent model GM car and tell me the quality is inferior as it has been in the past, you're wrong.
Plus, I get really annoyed when people say "Obama owns GM." Yes folks, President Obama himself owns GM all by himself...
It's an investment than you and I are both invested in...why wouldn't we want to see it do well?
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Quote:
It's an investment than you and I are both invested in...why wouldn't we want to see it do well?
I don't think anyone doesn't want it to see do well ... I think it's more of a gripe with being led into this 'investment' in the first place.
Now, I'm really not a fan of the whole 'I'm paying for this' line of thought, as it's rather shortsighted. It's a very subjective issue ... your tax dollars probably go to pay for office pens.
However ... where do I, or you, benefit from this 'investment'?
I understand and can appreciate the importance of GM as a viable company, and the positive effects that this can have on the economy, etc. I do see the selfishness in the question.
But what is my return on this investment? If this thing goes off without a hitch, and GM completely turns it around, am I getting a check in the mail? A free car? A discounted car? Stock options? No, I'm not. At best, I'd catch a one time 'tax break' that would be ripped from me in a few years after we blow all our money again.
When you break it down, Obama took 'our' money and gave it out as a loan to GM ... if that happens to work out, who benefits? The government, the folks at the top of GM, and, of course, a lot of hard working people who get to keep or obtain jobs.
But had the whole thing tanked, those hard working folks would have been screwed. The government would keep stomping along, the folks at the top would get taxpayer funded severance/buyout, and the rest of us would get stuck in the rubble with the bill.
It's called 'lemon socialism', and while it may have been 'necessary' to save us in the short-term, we're essentially just repeating the mistakes.
Our country is currently like a compulsive gambler on a bad losing streak. We're borrowing, and borrowing to pay back what we've borrowed, and borrowing more to pay off that loan ... with our eyes on eventually hitting the right cards. Our 'solution', as far as I can tell, is to attempt to win a big pot. The odds are against us.
And you say GM's product has improved ... I agree with you. But that doesn't mean I want to invest in them.
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I can't wait for their IPO...I see GM as being a profitable company for the forseeable future.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,070
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,070 |
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However ... where do I, or you, benefit from this 'investment'?
I understand and can appreciate the importance of GM as a viable company, and the positive effects that this can have on the economy, etc. I do see the selfishness in the question.
phil....You answered your own question...you realize that?
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But what is my return on this investment? If this thing goes off without a hitch, and GM completely turns it around, am I getting a check in the mail? A free car? A discounted car? Stock options? No, I'm not. At best, I'd catch a one time 'tax break' that would be ripped from me in a few years after we blow all our money again.
phil...do you recognize your own selfishness?
What do you get out of this deal?...Maybe the satisfaction that your tax dollars helped a major "American" company survive during the worst economic times since the great depression.
Maybe the satisfaction that your tax dollars helped thousands of GM workers and management keep their jobs and potentially, helping to save millions of American jobs that would have been affected had our Gov turned it's back on GM.
Phil...did you ever worry about the investment our Gov made in Iraq?...What was "your" return on that investment?
Maybe it's just me...but I'm happy to see that our Gov is helping "Americans" for a change.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Hall of Famer
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GM's product portfolio is definitely improving, no doubt about it. I own exclusively GM right now, even though one is australian and the other swedish ;P The hopeful return on investment is that we wont have 290,000 americans entering the unemployment hunt. And thats just for GM itself, not including auxiliary corporations that supply parts. I'm hoping GM will be good on that front. I dont think Phil was being selfish at all, the money our government utilizes we have a duty and reponsibility as citizens to ensure the money is being used wisely. However if GM failed and sent 290,000 people to the job market, this fragile economy would have gotten worse. Much worse considering how many thousands are employed at parts makers and dealerships for GM products that would no longer have products to sell. Sadly Chrysler employs about 200k and I haven't seen ANY good coming from them lately save spend way too much money on an imasculating super bowl ad. I fear they're a zombie corporation and will be renamed Fiatsler soon 
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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OP
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GM's product portfolio is definitely improving, no doubt about it. I own exclusively GM right now, even though one is australian and the other swedish ;P
The hopeful return on investment is that we wont have 290,000 americans entering the unemployment hunt. And thats just for GM itself, not including auxiliary corporations that supply parts. I'm hoping GM will be good on that front. I dont think Phil was being selfish at all, the money our government utilizes we have a duty and reponsibility as citizens to ensure the money is being used wisely. However if GM failed and sent 290,000 people to the job market, this fragile economy would have gotten worse. Much worse considering how many thousands are employed at parts makers and dealerships for GM products that would no longer have products to sell.
Sadly Chrysler employs about 200k and I haven't seen ANY good coming from them lately save spend way too much money on an imasculating super bowl ad. I fear they're a zombie corporation and will be renamed Fiatsler soon
Chrysler needs to make it until the end of the year when their refreshed products come out.
Fiat immediately gave just about all their cars emergency facelifts that'll be released later this year...but for now Chrysler is in awful, awful shape. There are signs of hope for Chrysler though, with Fiat's 1.4L Turbo and the Pentastar V6 that Chrysler got to keep from Daimler.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Very true Ammo, but I don't know if I like the pairing with Lancia....the recent lineup at the Geneva show is not promising. Even the restyled Delta that was at the Detroit show....while not necesarily a bad car.....well the best things about it were the 2 models they had presenting it.....superb....I mean they were best in show....  ...LOL..... Chrysler has to survive for at least a year...and it is going to be tough. I am disappointed that they continue to stall the bringing of Alfa Romeo over to the States...The Fiat 500 should do well but I don't think it will do as well as they hope. It is a Mini fighter ...and it will definitely score points with young and single women. Over in Europe it is a staple small car....but it just won't hit that status here. Hopefully it will hold them over long enough for the restyled 300 and Charger (closer to the original concept ) to debut along with their Sebring replacement....I think that Sebring replacement will be their most important car. Because the 300 and Charger will be niche cars...I understand the 300 will be shooting for the Caddy's, Lexus, MB S Class, etc... and frankly that is not going to carry your entire company. So the Sebring replacement is going to be the one to try to take the LaCrosse, Lexus ES and possibly higher end Malibu, Accord, and Camry customers....and that is a large customer set. So the car better be a good one....And if they are pairing with Lancia....I don't see that happening...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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phil....You answered your own question...you realize that?
Yes, I do ... I also answered the counterpoint.
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Phil...did you ever worry about the investment our Gov made in Iraq?...What was "your" return on that investment?
Have you read any of my posts on the subject in the last six or seven years?
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Very true Ammo, but I don't know if I like the pairing with Lancia....the recent lineup at the Geneva show is not promising. Even the restyled Delta that was at the Detroit show....while not necesarily a bad car.....well the best things about it were the 2 models they had presenting it.....superb....I mean they were best in show.... ...LOL.....
Chrysler has to survive for at least a year...and it is going to be tough. I am disappointed that they continue to stall the bringing of Alfa Romeo over to the States...The Fiat 500 should do well but I don't think it will do as well as they hope. It is a Mini fighter ...and it will definitely score points with young and single women. Over in Europe it is a staple small car....but it just won't hit that status here. Hopefully it will hold them over long enough for the restyled 300 and Charger (closer to the original concept ) to debut along with their Sebring replacement....I think that Sebring replacement will be their most important car. Because the 300 and Charger will be niche cars...I understand the 300 will be shooting for the Caddy's, Lexus, MB S Class, etc... and frankly that is not going to carry your entire company. So the Sebring replacement is going to be the one to try to take the LaCrosse, Lexus ES and possibly higher end Malibu, Accord, and Camry customers....and that is a large customer set. So the car better be a good one....And if they are pairing with Lancia....I don't see that happening...
It amazes me how bad of shape Daimler left Chrysler in, and makes you wonder how Mercedes' can be so nice compared to the junk they made Chrysler. They literally bought Chrysler, took their technology and ran them into the ground.
I heard they're refreshing the Jeep Patriot and Compass this year...if they put the 1.4L turbo in it, I'd seriously consider the AWD model...especially after this morning's commute....but only if they put that engine in it. The current MPG numbers are junk for those two cars, which is a big reason why Chrysler's in the mess they're in.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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last I checked the Dodge Caliber econobox couldn't even hit 30MPG highway which is just terrible with today's technology. I also heard when Daimler took over they used their own architects to build chrysler products and got rid of the detroit architects. So when daimler left, Chrysler had *no one* to design cars for them.
I don't think the 300 and Charger are niche cars if their entry point is in the low 20s, sure the top range is touching 40 but you can get a base model at a decent price. They hold the same purpose as the Impala and Taurus competition. But your big money is in the mid size segment with the Malibus and Fusions domestically. I see a ton of those on the road and Chrysler needs to make an appealing product in that segment.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,346
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,346 |
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Do we not see the evidence right in front of us???? Unreal...
Evidence of what? What has caused the acceleration problem? I last read that Toyota is saying that it is not an electronic design flaw.
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I get really annoyed when people say "Obama owns GM." Yes folks, President Obama himself owns GM all by himself
He doesn't and fortunately for GM they do have solid engineers.....and so doesn't Toyota. I'm certain that all of Toyotas competitors realize that.
Toyotas troubles are compelling for me. Certainly the injury and loss of life is horribly tragic, but the process of realizing industry leading quality standards to where they now are is one that I am interested in. Along those lines this articel hit home for me:
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Toyota's troubles reflect the price of technology
Charles Krauthammer
Amazingly, the congressional hearings on Toyota were relatively civilized. Apart from some inevitable theatrical hectoring, the questioning was respectful, the emotions controlled. This was all the more remarkable given the drama of some of the testimony, such as a tearful Rhonda Smith, who recounted how, in her runaway Lexus, she had called her husband because "I wanted to hear his voice one more time."
Such wrenching and compelling stories might impel you to want to string up the first Toyota executive you find. But the issue is larger and highly complex.
Industrial society produces an astonishing array of mass-produced products -- cars, drugs, medical devices -- that are at once wondrous and potentially lethal.
The wondrousness sometimes eludes us. Even the lowliest wage earner has an automobile that conveys him with more luxury, more freedom, more comfort than any traveling king ever experienced in all the centuries before the 20th. And modern medicines -- why, vaccines alone -- have prevented more suffering, debility and death than anything ever conceived by man.
But these wonders can be lethal. And sorting out the endless complaints about these products is maddeningly difficult -- though sort you must, otherwise every complaint would require shutting down the factories, and we'd have no industrial society.
The question is: How do you distinguish the idiosyncratic failure from the systemic -- for example, the single lemon that came off the auto assembly line versus a problem inherent in that model's engineering? How do you separate one patient's physiology producing a drug side effect versus an intrinsic problem with a drug that makes it unacceptably dangerous?
Consider the oddity of those drug commercials on television. Fifteen seconds of the purported therapeutic effort, followed by about 45 seconds of a rapidly muttered list of horrific possible side effects. When the ad is over, I can't remember a thing about what the pill is supposed to do, except perhaps cause nausea, liver damage, projectile vomiting, a nasty rash, a four-hour erection and sudden death. Sudden death is my favorite because there is something comical about it being a side effect. What exactly is the main effect in that case? Relief from abdominal bloating?
And how many sudden deaths does it take until we say: "Enough," and pull the drug off the market?
It's not an easy calculation. Six years ago, Vioxx, a powerful anti-inflammatory, was withdrawn by the manufacturer because it was found to increase the risk of heart attack and stroke from 0.75 percent per year to 1.5 percent. The company was pilloried for not having owned up to this earlier, but some rheumatologists were furious that the drug was forced off the market. They had patients with crippling arthritis who had achieved a functioning life with Vioxx, for which they were quite willing to risk a long-shot cardiac complication. The public furor denied them the choice.
And don't imagine we do not coldly calculate the price of a human life. In 1974, the speed limit was lowered to 55 miles per hour to conserve oil. That also led to a dramatic drop in traffic fatalities -- about 3,000 lives every year. This didn't stop us, after the oil crisis, from raising the speed limit back to 65 and beyond.
We were prepared to trade away possibly a finite number of human lives for speed, and for the efficiency and convenience that come with it.
This is not to let Toyota off the hook simply because all products carry risk. Toyota executives have already admitted that they had underplayed the reports of sticking accelerators. They seem finally to have made a very serious, almost frantic, effort to correct what can be corrected -- the floor mat and sticky accelerator problem -- while continuing to investigate the more elusive possibility (never proved, perhaps never provable) of some additional electronic glitch.
But it is no disrespect to the memory of those killed, and the sorrow of those left behind, to admit that even the highest technology produced by the world's finest companies can be fallible and fatal, and that the intelligent response is not rage and retribution but sober remediation and recognition of the high price we pay -- willingly pay -- for modernity with all its wondrous, dangerous bounty.
Source: Detroit News
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