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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,362
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,362 |
Quote:
Will be interesting to see what the long term effects end up being.
Probably will end up being a U.S. bailout of a Japanese company as someone in Washington decides that they employ too many US workers to go under 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
Quote:
Quote:
Will be interesting to see what the long term effects end up being.
Probably will end up being a U.S. bailout of a Japanese company as someone in Washington decides that they employ too many US workers to go under
I didn't think toyota plants were unionized. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
I don't agree with a full refund. However, I think if they don't want the car they should get at worst "trade" value, at best "retail" value for the car in its present condition...at a depreciation rate before the incidents started.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
I hope Toyota goes under.
Serves them right for trying to drive GM and Ford out of business.
America, hell yeah.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
I don't agree with a full refund. However, I think if they don't want the car they should get at worst "trade" value, at best "retail" value for the car in its present condition...at a depreciation rate before the incidents started.
I dunno...if they get retail or trade value it won't buy them a new car....which is what they thought they were getting with Toyota. (And they were, but it may not have been safe.)
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Why should they get a free car? They paid for a car that has served them without fault from the time they paid for it.....So in essence they would have owned the car for YEARS and they will have gotten that service for FREE????
Retail value would at least be far more than the trade value they would get anywhere else and would in many cases all but pay for a replacement...
It is like me asking for a full refund on my 2001 Olds Aurora that I have been driving for 7 years...It was used so I got mine for about...lets say 20K. If I trade it in today...I might get 3K. Retail is anywhere from 6K-8K. What right do I have to be asking for my full 20K back???? Especially after getting 7+ good years of driving from it????
Granted my example is more extreme...but it is so to make the point. I think 6K-8K is definitely appropriate because I could buy a car that would replace what I have. And that is the point....we want to replace what they "have"...not what they "had".
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,987 |
Quote:
I hope Toyota goes under.
Serves them right for trying to drive GM and Ford out of business.
America, hell yeah.
Toyota is trying to drive Ford and GM out of business, while Gm and Ford are trying to drive Toyota out of business, as well as all other car manufacturers. Don't try to act like GM and Ford are innocent victims of "big bad Toyota."
And I love your love for "American" companies who get a lot of their parts from other countries, and you also fail to realize that a lot of foreign car companies have plants in the United States and employee thousands of American workers.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
This is pretty much what I expected was going to happen when I heard about the "run-away" Toyota in San Diego:
Toyota dismisses Calif. man's runaway Prius
By ELLIOT SPAGAT and TOM KRISHER,
Associated Press Writers
SAN DIEGO – Toyota Motor Corp. was quiet last week when James Sikes told reporters how the gas pedal got stuck on his 2008 Prius, leading him on a wild ride on a Southern California freeway.
Now the Japanese automaker is talking at length about how its tests don't support Sikes' version of events, and the driver is quiet.
Toyota says its tests showed the car's gas pedal, backup safety system and electronics were working fine. It was unable to replicate the stuck gas pedal that Sikes reported.
The automaker said Monday that it found Sikes rapidly pressed the gas and brakes back and forth 250 times, the maximum amount of data that the car's self-diagnostic system can collect. That account appears to contradict Sikes' statements — backed by the California Highway Patrol — that he slammed the brakes, even lifting his buttocks off the seat.
Toyota officials said they believed Sikes hit the pedals lightly, which would have prevented a brake-override system from kicking in. Under the Prius design, engine power is cut if the brake pedal is pressed with moderate force.
Toyota stopped short of saying that Sikes fabricated his story.
"We have no opinion on his account, what he's been saying, other than the scenario is not consistent with the technical findings," spokesman Mike Michels said at a news conference.
The episode March 8 was among the highest-profile headaches Toyota has suffered in recent months. It recalled more than 8 million cars and trucks worldwide because gas pedals can become stuck in the down position or be snagged by floor mats. Dozens of Toyota drivers have reported problems even after their cars were supposedly fixed.
The company had no explanation for discrepancies with Sikes' account but confirmed the brakes were overheated and the pads worn. Bob Waltz, vice president of product, quality and service support at Toyota Motor Sales USA, said the front brakes were "metal to metal."
Toyota said it believes a CHP officer's account that he smelled burning brakes while guiding Sikes on the freeway. Officials said repeatedly pressing the pedal could have overheated the brakes but were unclear why the car didn't stop sooner than it did.
"That is the puzzling aspect of this," Michels said in an interview. "All we know are the engineering facts. We looked at all the components, they all work."
Toyota said its tests showed the car's electronics were working fine.
"If there were some kind of electronic problem, you would think it might actually stay permanent," Michels said. "When your TV goes on the fritz, when electronic stuff goes on the fritz, it doesn't just do it once and never do it again."
Sikes, 61, has said his car raced to 94 mph on Interstate 8 east of San Diego. He said he reached down with one hand to try to pull the pedal back, while keeping the other hand on the wheel. He called 911 but did not respond to repeated instructions from the dispatcher to throw the car into neutral.
The CHP officer eventually helped bring the car safely to a stop by telling him over a loudspeaker to hit the emergency brake and foot brake simultaneously.
Sikes spoke to reporters shortly after the incident but has since kept a low profile. He did not respond to phone messages Monday.
John Gomez, Sikes' attorney, said Monday that he would not comment on the episode until a government investigation was complete. Gomez has noted previously that Toyota has never been able to replicate stuck accelerator.
"This problem is sort of a ghost in the machine that is the Toyota system," he said Sunday. "It doesn't leave a fault code, it doesn't leave a footprint, and you can't make it happen upon demand."
The 2008 Prius is subject to a recall for floor mats but not sticky accelerators.
Now, I understand that the company has every reason to "lie" and cover it's own butt regarding this incident ... but I also full expected every attention-whore/cheapskate in this country to come out of the woodwork with some crazy claims either trying to get fame, or hoping to get Toyota to cough up some dough to avoid a lawsuit. Remember years back when someone found a syringe in a Diet Pepsi can ... and then suddenly 10 other people found them too. Well turns out all those other people were hoax cases (I think Pepsi even sued them, and won)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
agree'd.
We have a case around here where a local bar is being accused of putting something in their drinks, at first 1 lady stepped forward saying she blacked out after having 2 martini's. At last count I think they are up to like 2 dozen reported cases. Sounds like a lot of folks trying to take advantage of a situation.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
ok, let's start with that I have no clue who is telling the truth and who is lying. If they have technical data contradicting his report, there is a decent chance he was lying. However, Toyota should be more careful with what it says. This is wrong: Quote:
Toyota said its tests showed the car's electronics were working fine.
"If there were some kind of electronic problem, you would think it might actually stay permanent," Michels said. "When your TV goes on the fritz, when electronic stuff goes on the fritz, it doesn't just do it once and never do it again."
The permanent problem is the issue.
If there is a HW problem, then there is a chance that there is a setup violation that only occurs when the HW is heated up to an extreme temperature. Running the engine for a long time on a hot day perhaps is what set it off in the first place.
If there is a SW problem, then there is a chance that there is a corner case violation somewhere that was fixed by turning off the car (which "reset" the issue). It could be a case that is nearly impossible to get back into and just happened "by chance"
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Taking what has been reported, along with the "runaway prius" story, and Toyotas and the NHTSB findings, I think the problem may not at all be in the pedal or any mechanical part, but may be in the programming.
Assuming the "runaway" story is true (which I'm not sure it is) and 2 groups have studied the vehicle and can find nothing wrong with it, and that the Prius has a fail-safe that if the brakes are pressed then the accelerator is put into idle and no longer functional, then It very well may be a computer programming issue, which may or may not be able to be re-enacted in a controlled environment.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Expert: Electronic Design Flaw
Linked to Runaway Toyotas
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