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Even more good questions that Mac won't answer.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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This whole story erks me. I just dont understand how 1 senator can block an unanimous voted extention just because he has a burr in his saddle.
I would love to know where Bunning was when Bush was taking a surplus deficit up to a trillion dollar deficit spending.
And for all you naysayers... "Oh people need to get off there arses and work". This bill only gives an extension to unemployed benefits which adds less then 100 a week for compensation. And thats all you focus on. Not the public works projects or the 100,000 or so that lose their jobs because of this numbnut.
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This whole story erks me. I just dont understand how 1 senator can block an unanimous voted extention just because he has a burr in his saddle.
I would love to know where Bunning was when Bush was taking a surplus deficit up to a trillion dollar deficit spending.
And for all you naysayers... "Oh people need to get off there arses and work". This bill only gives an extension to unemployed benefits which adds less then 100 a week for compensation. And thats all you focus on. Not the public works projects or the 100,000 or so that lose their jobs because of this numbnut.
I looked it up at the beginning of this thread:
they were trying to get unanimous consent via a 'voice' vote. Bunning spoke up, which broke the consent and would force them to debate and vote on the issue.
it's for emergency measures that require expediting
http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/unanimous_consent.htm
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Now, this all could have been avoided, if they called to a vote that whole Jobs Bill that was created with a bipartisan committee and had followed the Pay-Go rules.
#gmstrong
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He asked them to do something they instituted just weeks before. To find the money before they spend it. Did he know they would just say no and blame him for blocking the extension?
They could have just as easily said, "Sure, lets take it from the 400 billion left from the stimulus package."
If your spouse says"Let's buy a new car." Do you just say yes, or do you make sure you have the finances to afford such an expense?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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If the government keeps handing out free money,what incentive is there for people to ever go back to work? You seem to think money grows on trees mac. What happens when we run out of tax payers when everyone stops working because the government will just give people free money?
This is a misrepresentation of the situation.
Unemployment ends up being roughly half of your earnings, up to a max that breaks down to roughly a 40 hour work week at minimum wage ($293 per week). The benefits also have time limits and are taxable. This means that most on these benefits are taking large "pay cuts." Not really an incentive to stay on the benefits if you can find work.
http://jobsearch.about.com/cs/unemployment/a/unemployment.htm
TANF and food stamps, the more traditional forms of welfare also pay out at relatively low rates ($165 dollars per month per recipient for TANF); well below the poverty line. These benefits also have time limits and work requirements.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2005/9g.html
In summary, welfare alone is not a sustainable way of life for able bodied workers. The incentive is to get a job, because no welfare lasts forever (or more than two years) and even if a person is able to take advantage of every program and not work at all, they will be "making" much less than minimum wage, well below the poverty line.
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If the government keeps handing out free money,what incentive is there for people to ever go back to work?
I'd much rather have my $50,000 a year job if I was given a choice. I have even gone as low as $40k a year for the same type of job...but nobody is hiring. I found out I was losing my job in October and immediately began getting my resume out. I have had one face to face interview, two phone interviews and been offered a Contingent contract for something that may open in April. I've cut costs and corners, refinanced and done everything I can think of to scrape by on my unemployment insurance. Although I cant afford health insurance for the family right now, we will eat and keep the house. I am pretty sure it isn't quite the relaxing hand-out life it's being painted as. Luckily for us we had savings to fall back on.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy seeing my kids and family, having made over $10k additional in overtime pay alone last year...but I want to work.
Last edited by LexDawg; 03/04/10 05:22 PM.
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Would you be one that said "instead of extended unemployment benefits, I'd rather gov't. enable companies to hire more employees?"
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If the government keeps handing out free money,what incentive is there for people to ever go back to work? You seem to think money grows on trees mac. What happens when we run out of tax payers when everyone stops working because the government will just give people free money?
squi...When Bush bailed out Wall St and they took the money and used it to give themselves bonuses, you didn't complain...but if Dems try to help blue collar Americans who are suffering due to the Great Bush Recession, by not holding up their unemployment benefits and you call it "handing out free money".
All those American jobs Bush helped his greedy corporate brothers send to China....we sure could use some of those jobs back so we could shrink America's unemployment roles.
Realisticly, when the Bush tax cuts expire and Obama and the Dems reallocate the priorities for receiving tax cuts for corporate America, we might see a dramatic increase in the jobs market here in the USA.
Obama and the Dems want to give tax cuts to American corporations and businesses (big and small) that create jobs here in the USA for American workers....that is great idea, don't you agree?
The Bush and the GOP gave tax cuts to corporations and businesses who then used taxpayer dollars to help fund the closing of factories in the USA and opening new factories in slave labor countries such as China and Mexico...Bush/Jim Bunning and the rest of the GOP loved it...but now the United States suffers from a lack of jobs...hmmmm.
....now, GOP Senator Jim Bunning and his GOP buddies, who loved sending American jobs to China and other slave labor countries while Bush was President, now have the nerve to block unemployment benefits and complain that middle class/blue collar workers are simply milking the system and not really looking for a job.
Those of you who want to pretend this is not and did not happen...you need to get a clue, face the truth and tell the truth...an estimated 2.6 - 4.0 million jobs left the USA for slave labor countries while Bush was President. The ripple effect from the closing of American factories has turned some locations into modern day ghost towns....some right here in Ohio.
I have a great idea for paying for the unemployment benefits...end the Bush tax cuts for corporations and businesses NOW...and begin the Obama/Dem tax plan of providing tax cuts to those businesses and companies, that create new jobs in the USA for American workers, TODAY.
If American corporations and businesses want their tax cuts back...bring the jobs back or create new jobs. That would be a win/win for everyone involved.
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Would you be one that said "instead of extended unemployment benefits, I'd rather gov't. enable companies to hire more employees?"
Years ago when my company first starting outsourcing I was certain what would happen. We were told that the jobs being sent to India would be done by someone who would make less in 1 month than the cost of 1 printer. The first thing that came to my mind was "Who is going to buy our product then?". If the American is out of a job and we pay the Indian so little he can't buy it... By cutting 1000 jobs that is 1000 people that would purchase our product, they will also not be able to buy items elsewhere. So those companies will have to cut jobs to try and make a profit. At this point wages will have to come down, I see no other results that will get US employees jobs with US companies.
I've often stated, as a layman, that if I ran the government I would announce a tax increase on US companies that starts in 5 years. The tax increase will be huge and will be used to help pay the unemployed. The higher the percentage amount of US employees the US company has on it's payroll the larger the percentage of the tax increase would be waived as they are supporting American workers already. At some point a company can meet a percentage goal and have the whole tax waived.
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squi...When Bush bailed out Wall St and they took the money and used it to give themselves bonuses, you didn't complain..
It only took me 20 seconds to find squires position on the bonues
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Squires
Re: AIG Debacle
#536731 - 03/18/09 09:29 AM
jc
The Stimulus Bill Explicitly Guarantees Contractual Bonuses Executed Before February 11
Senator Chris Dodd's challenger, Rob Simmons, was just given a golden, golden issue to run on.
Who in their right mind would codify in law that bonus payments to executives at bailed-out companies could not be prohibited?
Well, Chris Dodd.
From page H1412 of the Final Stimulus Bill, “SEC. 111. EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AND CORPORATE GOVERNANCE:
'(iii) The prohibition required under clause (i) shall not be construed to prohibit any bonus payment required to be paid pursuant to a written employment contract executed on or before February 11, 2009, as such valid employment contracts are determined by the Secretary or the designee of the Secretary.”
This amendment provides an exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009, which exempts the very AIG bonuses Obama is condemning every single chance he gets. The amendment is in the final version and is law.
That's the amendment that Dodd got placed in the Obama stimulus bill. You know, the one that passed with no House Republican votes, and only three Senate Republican votes.
Way to go, guys.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I've often stated, as a layman, that if I ran the government I would announce a tax increase on US companies that starts in 5 years. The tax increase will be huge and will be used to help pay the unemployed. The higher the percentage amount of US employees the US company has on it's payroll the larger the percentage of the tax increase would be waived as they are supporting American workers already. At some point a company can meet a percentage goal and have the whole tax waived.
Except for waving taxes completely for a % goal, this is a great idea.
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I've often stated, as a layman, that if I ran the government I would announce a tax increase on US companies that starts in 5 years. The tax increase will be huge and will be used to help pay the unemployed. The higher the percentage amount of US employees the US company has on it's payroll the larger the percentage of the tax increase would be waived as they are supporting American workers already. At some point a company can meet a percentage goal and have the whole tax waived.
Except for waving taxes completely for a % goal, this is a great idea.
I meant waving the new 'unemployment tax'...normal taxes would still apply which would be more incentive. My company has offshored probably 75% of their jobs...
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Thank you Florida, mac is yet to acknowledge that we do think for ourselves.. and until he does, debating with him is pretty much pointless.
yebat' Putin
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i am still waiting for Mac to answer my questions from earlier in this thread as well.
Glad I didn't hold my breath waiting .......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c Wonder what kind of spin old macie will put on this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1220How dare a person refuse to vote for O's health crap????????? Oh, this person is a democrat. Golly - so much for the dems "looking out for the middle class" I guess. 
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Heck of a turnout today! Lazy people on unemployment Name and Phone Number only. They announced the first 500 would get an application, I arrived onsite 4 hours before the start time and they already had given out the 500 applications and were putting everyone on the list. Sadly this is nothing close to what I do and there were plenty of skilled folks there so I doubt I will get a serious call.
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See, you have it wrong...those people aren't the "lazy" ones. They are the ones that actually deserve help. Not sure why you chose that wording for your link.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Probably because some people would try to have you believe that the "lazy" people on unemployment make up more than just a tiny fraction of the total number of people who are on unemployment. The way some people talk the people on unemployment are only there because they want free money and are just living it up on their weekly checks.
Also people tend to forget, to even qualify for unemployment in the first place you have to have lost your job through no fault of your own. You don't get unemployment if you quit your job or get fired from it. I don't understand why people who are using this insurance have such a low approval rating from the public in general. Like they're on unemployment because they want to be or something.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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See, you have it wrong...those people aren't the "lazy" ones. They are the ones that actually deserve help. Not sure why you chose that wording for your link.
Probably because if you read the thread you will see many comments about Bunning's stand and how the people affected are living high on the hog on unemployment enjoying their vacation at the tax payers expense.
If you would read my post you would see I was 1 of those 'lazy' people.
Hopefully that helps the broadbrush bearers realize that just spouting something doesn't make it true.
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Like they're on unemployment because they want to be or something.
Plenty of people on unemployment have no desire to work. They are getting paid to sit on their asses. I have heard, firsthand, people say just that.
I think some people deserve the benefit and some don't. Why do some of you seem to defend EVERYONE getting it?
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Why do some of you seem to defend EVERYONE getting it?
Because everyone that gets it has qualified for it? Because people that collect it paid into it? Because the self righteous fools that argue against it don't realize that blocking it affects those that are looking hard for jobs as well as those that do not. But they continue to wield that broad brush anyways...
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Plenty of people on unemployment have no desire to work. They are getting paid to sit on their asses. I have heard, firsthand, people say just that.
I think some people deserve the benefit and some don't. Why do some of you seem to defend EVERYONE getting it?
I don't know how you define "plenty" but the way I define it that statement is completely false. There are "some" (as I would define it) people who abuse the system, but the overwhelming majority of people who are on unemployment want to get a job and get off unemployment as soon as humanly possible. If for no other reason than unemployment is not something you can live on. There are plenty of other, better reasons not to be on it, but you've said you've been on it so you know how little it is. These people who are "living it up" on unemployment... well, I wanna know where they're shopping.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I think some people deserve the benefit and some don't. Why do some of you seem to defend EVERYONE getting it?
Not 'defending' it, but honest answer --
a) I don't trust the government. So I'd rather have them be lax and have a few loafers, then have them be stringent and balk at some needy folks.
b) I think the highest levels of government realize that if you don't placate the poor with a pittance, they could be trouble. Send them a few hundred every month ... they'll put it right back into the economy.
When you think about it, welfare is a giant government subsidy to several entities, many of them small businesses -- grocery stores, convenience stores, bodegas, fast food, gas stations, drug dealers, etc. That money is spent fast.
Mind you, that's a realist evaluation of a broken system ... not my advocation of such ideas.
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Because everyone that gets it has qualified for it? Because people that collect it paid into it?
Unemployment is INSURANCE that is paid for by the employer.. You as a worker aren't contributing to the premiums I as an employer pay. employers pay into FUI (federal unemployment insurance) and SUI (state unemployment insurance)
My state unemployment premium went up by a bunch this year due to the usage in Ohio..
But that doesn't change things.. It's insurance paid for. It's there as a safety net should someone get laid off....
I can tell you that my former employees weren't lazy when they worked for me. They aren't interested in sitting on thier butts collecting unemployment. they would all much rather be working because they make a helluva lot more working then on unemployment.
Are thier folks out thier that are collecting unemployment and are happy about it? Sure, I suppose thier are.
But I'd venture a guess that they make up a very small portion..
#GMSTRONG
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In a way you are correct, and incorrect about Unemployment Insurance.
In Ohio, employers can be "self insured", which means that they do not pay the high unemployment insurance premiums. I do believe (but could be wrong) that they pay some portion of Unemployment Tax ... and am unsure of how extension of benefits impacts the businesses who choose not to fully participate in the government system.
Further, states participate in Unemployment Insurance payments ...... so every time an extension is put in place, the state has to come up with more money to pay for benefits. Now, that doesn't mean that they have to some up with 100% of the money ..... but there have been numerous news stories about states running short because of higher unemployment rates, lowered employer participation, and extension of benefits. Given this, I would assume that private employers who paid unemployment claims which receive an extension would also then have to make up the difference out of pocket. This hardly creates an environment where hiring takes place, as capital is drained further to pay for claims that "should have" run out according to the rules in place at the time of the initial claim.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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a) I don't trust the government. So I'd rather have them be lax and have a few loafers, then have them be stringent and balk at some needy folks.
I agree that the majority of people on unemployment aren't milking the system...but I would bet that it's not as few as some people around here seem to think. Generally, people are lazy IMO. Just look at welfare as an example.
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Some estimates have numbers between 5,000 and 7,000 people turning out to fill 100 temporary positions. Apparently the 'few' who aren't lazy Apparently many people left before we arrived at 7am and while I was there you could see people giving up and heading out as well. I was there for 6 hours and never got near the tent in the video, people were walking around with clipboards to put your phone number on.
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If you are just going to keep repeating the same things, we can't discuss this. I didn't say everyone on unemployment shouldn't be. I am saying that MANY are abusing the system. Not sure why spitting out numbers at me makes you think that fact will change.
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In a way you are correct, and incorrect about Unemployment Insurance.
I am an employer in Ohio and I know I'm correct.
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In Ohio, employers can be "self insured", which means that they do not pay the high unemployment insurance premiums.
You are confusing Unemployment with Workers Compensation...
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Further, states participate in Unemployment Insurance payments ...... so every time an extension is put in place, the state has to come up with more money to pay for benefits.
Yes, then they increase the premiums I pay for unemployment insurance.. which is how they fund that program to begin with.
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This hardly creates an environment where hiring takes place, as capital is drained further to pay for claims that "should have" run out according to the rules in place at the time of the initial claim.
No offense intended, but you don't seem to have a firm grasp of what you are talking about..
#GMSTRONG
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If you are just going to keep repeating the same things, we can't discuss this. I didn't say everyone on unemployment shouldn't be. I am saying that MANY are abusing the system. Not sure why spitting out numbers at me makes you think that fact will change.
I don't think it will change, as it is just YOUR opinion. You are calling people out based on your own opinion, I am simply posting news articles because the local news from the area that Bunning represents is from is saying they are relevant. An act was done that affected everyone, you seem to justify it because you think 'many' don't deserve it. I know 'many' people that do not deserve the jobs they have but wouldn't think it intelligent to paint all employed folk with the same brush.
You piped in and we disagree, you seem to feel it is okay to make broad sweeping statements based on limited knowledge. I certainly do disagree.
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Okay, let me try different wording...then maybe you'll get it:
I didn't say everyone on unemployment is abusing the system.
Better? And, ftr, I haven't made a "broad sweeping statement". I said MANY people on unemployment are abusing the system...and they are. That's a fact, not a guess.
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I said MANY people on unemployment are abusing the system...and they are. That's a fact, not a guess.
What does "many" mean to you.. 10%, 20%.. 50%?
Personally, I don't think there is a huge portion of those collecting unemployment that are abusing the system..
#GMSTRONG
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Maybe it would be best to start with a common sense statement..."Most unemployed Americans would rather be working a good paying job with benefits to support their families."....everyone agree?
Why can't we do that in America?
Why aren't there enough good paying jobs in the USA to support Americans who want to work?
Let's identify the "why" the United States is in this mess instead of focusing on some who may not want to work.
The goal is to find jobs for those people who want to work so they can support their families.
America's working/middle class voters do deserve some answers from our government though.
What happened to our American jobs? How did this country fall into this mess?
What can America's working/middle class voters do to address the problems that created the "jobs mess" facing this country today?
The American working/middle class is the most powerful voting block in the USA. Approx. 86% of all Americans fall into the working/middle class.
The lack of enough jobs for the working/middle class is a growing problem in the USA and those in the working/middle class are either worrying about their jobs or wondering what happened to days when they could get a raise in wages. Add to the jobs/wage issue the fact that working/middle class workers/voters are being asked to either pay more for the healthcare or buy their own healthcare, and it becomes obvious that the working/middle class has been ignored by our government.
America's government is not working in/for the best interest of the working/middle class workers/voters...WHY NOT?
The working/middle class workers have the power to dictate policy to our elected officials if they refuse/fail to address the basic problem of creating a work environment in the United States that allows working/middle class workers the opportunity to earn a living that can support the basic needs of the average American families.
Last edited by mac; 03/07/10 03:43 PM.
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Maybe 15%, give or take a few points. I'm going off what those that come to my stores to put in applications talk about. Probably half of those that stop in only want proof to show they are trying...yet they say they aren't really ready to work until their benefits expire. Honestly, it's getting pretty easy to spot the ones I think are truly sincere in their pursuits. They at least try to dress nicely and comb their hair.
Even if the number is really 10%, that's MANY in my opinion. Look at the unemployment numbers...10% is a lot of people, no?
I know one business owner that accepts applications, talks with the folks about employment, then calls the unemployment office to turn them in when he finds out they are just milking the system. I just turn them away because I'm not currently hiring and I already have a list of long-time customers that would actually LOVE to work in my stores.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
Yes, I did confuse workman's compensation with unemployment. My first mistake ever. Damn, I must be getting old.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,890
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,890 |
I'd say that 15% with a + or - 3% is probably about right for fraud.. And that's basically what we are talking about here.. Fraud. If you aren't looking for a job,, if you are sitting around collecting the money,,, then you are doing so fraudulently IMO...
But I do understand that after a number of doors get slammed in your face, it might be hard to get up and try again.. I get that. Very discouraging. the feeling of pure hopelessness has to be overwhelming...
I really feel for those that try and are just getting beat down..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895 |
Quote:
And, ftr, I haven't made a "broad sweeping statement". I said MANY people on unemployment are abusing the system...and they are. That's a fact, not a guess.
If it is a fact please back up the claim with data. THEN it is a fact. Currently it is opinion because it is a vague statement that you are trying to cement as reality without any concrete data.
If 100 people are abusing unemployment but 100,000,000 are on unemployment the fact is it is a small percentage. If 100 people are abusing unemployment but 150 people are on unemployment, MANY of them are abusing it.
That is not even bothering to point out that if the people 'abusing' unemployment are doing the minimum needed to remain eligible it is still just opinion that they are abusing it...by definition they are doing what the are supposed to do.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
I don't need to look for data, thanks. MANY people that come in my store to "fake apply" for jobs are indeed abusing the system. That's all I need. That is my reality. It's what I experience firsthand.
I don't get the issue you are having with this...are you saying you don't believe anyone is doing this?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
I get the following call(s) every day ..... "Hi. May I help you?" "Are you hiring?" "We are always accepting aplications and hire from the pool of applicants when we have an opening." "OK. What's your name and the address there?". 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Yep. I have started getting resumes through the mail even. I REALLY hope those don't count for unemployment purposes. I toss them. Maybe I should start wasting their time by at least making them come in for an interview if they are going to use me.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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