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Joined: Mar 2009
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Rookie
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Wait, Mac is that you? I didn't see any part of your post that blames the GOP for all of the middle class problems...did someone stole your password? 
"Every time that I score, I'm going to get the ball and sign it "To Holmgren" and give it to him just so he has the proof that I'm worth every penny"- JC
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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I agree that the majority of people on unemployment aren't milking the system...but I would bet that it's not as few as some people around here seem to think.
I honestly don't have the slightest clue as to what the breakdown would be ... I don't think any of us do ... there are many things that I don't think we really have a grasp on ... just an idea ... that could be completely wrong.
Working in television, you come to understand very quickly that ratings -- on which every single decision is made -- are a completely wild guess. The Neilsen system isn't a whole lot different than asking all of DawgTalk what they watch and forming opinions from there. DVD sales kind of changed that a bit, as you began to see untalked about shows that networks hardly pushed who destroyed projected sales by three figure percentages.
Same goes for polls, the census, etc., etc.
When I think of welfare, I don't think of Reagan's Cadillac queens and a core of lazy freeloaders ... but at the same time, I'm more than well aware that the stereotype is also true -- when you go into section 8 housing, you will always find big screens and game systems and extensive DVD collections.
I don't know the number, but like I said ... I'd rather have freeloaders than honest suffering. I can understand entirely why others may not view it that way.
And, once again -- when discussing welfare I really don't think people examine the whole picture -- it's a placating device. If the 'uneducated, lazy freeloaders end up hungry and starving ... things can get ugly quickly. I do believe that welfare - in part, a small part, but a part - exists to placate. And, as I said earlier, it's really no sweat because the money inevitably works it's way back into the system. Now, I'm not saying I agree with that course of action ... but what else are you going to do?
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Generally, people are lazy IMO. Just look at welfare as an example.
I don't know if it's being lazy ... I just think people take what they can get.
I do agree that long-term welfare sufficiency breeds negative character traits ... but again, I think those folks will always get checks just to keep 'em from disturbing the peace.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Joined: Oct 2006
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I think people were getting confused on your choice of words. When you say "plenty" and "many," I think of a number like 40-50% and not a number like 10-15%. Though, I do think 10-15% is a tad high. I personally know of only one person who "abuses" the system, and that is a friend of my parents who works construction. He gets laid off every winter and gets unemployment. Has been for as long as I've been alive. All the employees at his company do as there just isn't work in the winter months. I don't know what he does to satisfy the unemployment requirements of having to try to find work at at least 2 places per week...maybe he applies at all the other construction companies who lay off in the winter also? I really don't know. I don't really even know if that qualifies as abusing the system, but if it does he's the only person I know who chooses to get unemployment. Everyone else I know had their job taken away for various reasons but they'd still have it if it were up to them and they'd have a new job if it were up to them.
Also, I have a theory on why you see so many people trying to use you to skirt the rules of unemployment. I am basing my theory on the assumption that your stores are relatively small and are the traditional family operated business and not a franchise of a big name company. When I see a place like that hiring, what comes to mind is "can't pay me enough to take care of my 2 kids and their mother." I wouldn't apply for a job if I knew I couldn't take it, and I assume that other people are the same. You may be getting all the lazy abusers because they know you aren't going to hire them and you aren't getting the serious applicants because they know you won't hire them and even if you do you can't pay them $15 an hour or so that they need to provide for a family that they can get from a big business.
Of course you could very well be able to pay people a good wage and I may be completely wrong. I'm just saying when I think of small business, I think "can't make ends meet working there." I'm working at a smallish privately owned lab right now after having worked at a big corporation previously and they're paying me $5 an hour less for more responsibility. This might not always be how it works, but in my experience it is.
If I had to guess at what % of people abused unemployment, I would say 5-8% seems like a reasonable amount to me. But I also don't know anyone making minimum wage or near it, so maybe those people aren't too eager to get back to low paying jobs and are more likely to be abusers? Definitely a possibility but I really have no firsthand knowledge.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,828
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,828 |
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And, ftr, I haven't made a "broad sweeping statement". I said MANY people on unemployment are abusing the system...and they are. That's a fact, not a guess.
If it is a fact please back up the claim with data. THEN it is a fact. Currently it is opinion because it is a vague statement that you are trying to cement as reality without any concrete data.
If 100 people are abusing unemployment but 100,000,000 are on unemployment the fact is it is a small percentage. If 100 people are abusing unemployment but 150 people are on unemployment, MANY of them are abusing it.
That is not even bothering to point out that if the people 'abusing' unemployment are doing the minimum needed to remain eligible it is still just opinion that they are abusing it...by definition they are doing what the are supposed to do.
Lex...while it is true that some unemployed do not want to work, I believe a vast majority of Americans on unemployment "do want to work".
As I said above......"Most unemployed Americans would rather be working a good paying job with benefits to support their families."...
Part of the problem is the wage scale of some small businesses is too low to support a family...or the job is not full time...or does not include benefits.
If a worker loses a manufacturing job that pays $15.00 p/hr and has benefits...and they are looking for a similar job...those jobs are getting harder and harder to find, as I'm sure you know.
One of the side effects of the overseas outsourcing of good paying American jobs during the GW Bush years has been to drive down the wages of all working class workers in the USA.
Those doing the hiring know they have an advantage in the present jobs market and can be very selective, hiring the best qualified workers who are willing to work for the lowest possible wage.
Lex...As you can see, not many want to address the WHY?...WHY doesn't the USA have full time jobs that pay $15 p/hr with benefits?. The reason most are silent on the issue is the current lack of good paying American jobs can be traced back to the policies of the GOP/Conservatives/GW Bush.
No one on this message board wants to take ownership of problem their (GOP) party created...so they pretend it did not happen.
For every action, there is a reaction...Republicans (Senator Bunning included) loved it when G.W. Bush exported American workers jobs...now those same Republicans are complaining about paying unemployment benefits after they, the Republicans went too far in the exporting of America's middle class...GO FIGURE...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,138
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,138 |
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Lex...As you can see, not many want to address the WHY?...WHY doesn't the USA have full time jobs that pay $15 p/hr with benefits?. The reason most are silent on the issue is the current lack of good paying American jobs can be traced back to the policies of the GOP/Conservatives/GW Bush.
No one on this message board wants to take ownership of problem their (GOP) party created...so they pretend it did not happen.
For every action, there is a reaction...Republicans (Senator Bunning included) loved it when G.W. Bush exported American workers jobs...now those same Republicans are complaining about paying unemployment benefits after they, the Republicans went too far in the exporting of America's middle class...GO FIGURE...
He's baaaaaaaack! 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480
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Yeah, outsourcing started in the 2000's.  This has been in the making for a very, very long time. My ex-father-in-law was in China for a year in the early 90's when TRW was looking to move a lot of their manufacturing operations over there to save money. The problem is the economy has become global and we are competing with what equate to 3rd world countries for people who will work for nothing. It is ALL of Washingtons fault for not seeing this - at least if that is who you are going to blame. NAFTA was also a big part of this. The only way I see this problem getting fixed is when China and India are not so poverty stricken and wages increase accordingly - not going to happen in our lifetimes I doubt. We could isolate ourselves from the rest of the world as well, but I doubt that is a very good idea either.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Also, I have a theory on why you see so many people trying to use you to skirt the rules of unemployment. I am basing my theory on the assumption that your stores are relatively small and are the traditional family operated business and not a franchise of a big name company. When I see a place like that hiring, what comes to mind is "can't pay me enough to take care of my 2 kids and their mother." I wouldn't apply for a job if I knew I couldn't take it, and I assume that other people are the same. You may be getting all the lazy abusers because they know you aren't going to hire them and you aren't getting the serious applicants because they know you won't hire them and even if you do you can't pay them $15 an hour or so that they need to provide for a family that they can get from a big business.
Yes, you could be on to something here. I don't pay $15 an hour -- I can't, like you said. One of the resumes I got in the mail required $13 an hour...I was like  . I just happen to get the scum at the bottom of the pond. Lucky me.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum GOP Sen. Bunning blocks
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