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Worth a 5th round pick? I'd say yes.****************** Troy Smith is very availablePosted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 4, 2010 8:25 PM ET Ravens quarterback Troy Smith has made no secret that he wants out of Baltimore. He's got his chance. Smith's agent Ralph Cindrich tweeted that Smith was tendered at the original round level; the Ravens will only get a fifth-round pick if he signs an offer sheet and goes elsewhere.Quarterback John Beck was also tendered, so the Ravens have a backup in place if Smith leaves. The decision by Baltimore appears to be inviting a possible trade. The question now becomes whether there is any market for Smith. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/04/troy-smith-is-very-available/
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Here's the question:
Where would Smith fit in here?
If Quinn isn't the answer, are we going to risk wasting time on a guy the Rats aren't very interested in keeping?
To me, this would be akin to the wasted time and effort we put into Frye. It's not just the investment (picks and money) but more importantly we cannot afford to waste more time on QB's who aren't good bets.
And I don't believe Smith is a good bet.
He looks like a backup to me, so spending a pick and the money it would cost to get him doesn't seem wise. I know some special few can overcome disadvantages, but he's freakin' 6'. In an offense predicated on short drops, his lack of height is going to be even more pronounced because of the difficulty in finding passing lanes over and through the line.
Now watch us go get him 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i'll take Smith for a 5th in a heartbeat...
he's AT LEAST a better back up than what we have...
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It's not only about a 5th round pick. It's about the kind of contract it would take for the Rats to let him leave. It's about money. Ask Fraley about that.
If anyone believes signing him to a veteran-minimum contract is going to land him they aren't thinking this thing through.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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not sure how all that works..
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Joe Montana was freakin' 6' tall too ... he did alright with short drops, dinnee?
No, I'm not suggesting Smith is another Montana, but he is a winner. We could do much worse, even if only as a backup. Do you think we'll get even a #2 QB in this draft?
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Quote:
No, I'm not suggesting Smith is another Montana, but he is a winner.
So was any college QB playing in the pros, ask Ken Dorsey. Seriously get a new tired cliche.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Quote:
not sure how all that works..
Oh, ok.
1) The Rats tendered him at a level which means they can match any contract given to Smith. If they don't match, they get a 5th round pick in exchange for him.
So, if we offered him a low-money deal the Rats would probably keep him. The only way they'd let him walk away is if the contract given to him was very expensive.
This means it's not just about the 5th round pick we'd lose, but it's also about how much money it would take to get him. It's probable that the numbers to get him would be out of line for a backup QB.
In a simpler world, I would be happy drafting someone like Smith for a 5th round pick. The money makes it a different scenario.
Dave, that's why i said this:
Quote:
I know some special few can overcome disadvantages
Incidentally, Montana was 6'2.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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gotcha  and understand.. With a cap free year though.. giving Smith a mil or two would not hurt..
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right, but again, it's not just about the cap. It's about the money. It's about value for what you're getting. So the problem is that Lerner likely has a spending limit on how much he's willing to spend. Furthermore, Holmgren probably knows he can't spend bigger money than what a backup's value is at.
If were just about the cap, Fraley would probably still be a Brown. But since it's also about actual dollars and value, someone like Smith isn't going to be worth $1.5 million or more.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If he truly wants out of Baltimore why not pull the same stunt that the Vikes did with Hutchinson? Couldn't a team offer him a reasonable contract with a poison pill clause that pays an outrageous bonus for playing say 4 games per year in Baltimore?
I'm not advocating it, just asking.
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Yes. Teams can still do that. It is just frowned upon.
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Could we throw in some type of poison pill into the deal to make it okay for us, hell for them?
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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On second thought lets do it. I don't know who'd be frowning but it wouldn't be me. Sticking it to the Ravens would put a smile on my face. 
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Yes, we could definitely poison pill any contract. However, I would say that if we were entertaining the notion of going after a QB like Troy Smith, why wouldn't we just hang onto Quinn?
I don't see the two as being all that different, and one is already on the roster.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't want to see them go after Smith. I mean I think they can get something better, like Pennington. Smith hasn't done anything his entire career and would just be a huge risk if you wanted him to start. You might as well keep Quinn and play him.
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I agree. And getting Smith and keeping Quinn would only start another QB controversy/battle. Something Holmgren has said he doesn't want.
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What he said ^^^^
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing the guy in to compete, but Holmgren made it pretty clear that there will be no competition. So obviously somebody with experience will be brought in and start. Or he picks one guy on the roster and goes with him. Which doesn't sound to be the correct choice.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Which doesn't sound to be the correct choice.
And it looks like Holmgren doesn't want Quinn to be choice. He has had every opportunity to name Quinn (or Anderson for that matter) the starter and hasn't done it. He has always said something along these lines, "I'm not ready to make that decision yet." Which in my mind means, "If we can't find another guy, Quinn is the guy."
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Which, I think (sadly), is how it should be.
Quinn has not been good enough to outright, undeniably, lay claim to the starter's role.... so the only way he should get it at this point is, in fact, if we just cannot find someone better.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
It's not only about a 5th round pick. It's about the kind of contract it would take for the Rats to let him leave. It's about money. Ask Fraley about that.
If anyone believes signing him to a veteran-minimum contract is going to land him they aren't thinking this thing through.
They could always poison a contact for the Ravens. (If they really wanted him ... although I don't hink they do) If his contract specified that he'd be the highest paid player on the team if he is on the roster for more than 4 game in the state of Maryland, for example .....
I just can't imagine there being a on of interest on the Browns part.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Incidentally, Montana was 6'2.
Not to be argumentative, but Joe Montana was listed 6'2. Montana was 6'2 like Brian Sipe was 6', as in 'not really".
That aside, even the tallest QB needs passing lanes, as shown by the number of balls Derek Anderson gets batted down.
Regarding Holmgren's statement that there will be no QB competition - I don't buy it. There is no QB on this roster, or on the FA horizon who could or should be handed the job. So, unless a trade for Jason Campbell is in the works ( ), there will be a competition, imo. If there were to be a competition between Quinn and Troy Smith, I wouldn't bet against Smith.
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If he wanted to play for the Browns that badly, he'd go to tackling school and become a corner.
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Attractive price tag for an NFL fire sale. Could do worse, and certainly a BIG up over the ever-mentioned Derek the Nimble. Not all that different than Quinn. I was only so pro-BQ because I was so anti-DA. But if it isn't there, and you don't have a proven NFL starter in TS, we need an upgrade there. If TS is not a starter, then we have a backup with learning curve in place. IF the new mystery QB can't whip BQ and be declared Mikey's starter (such as a SUCCESSFUL established veteran), then he shouldn't be brought in. Only in case of injury. And gear up a deep fly offense.
My best to Fraley here as well.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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What has Smith done to make anyone think he's worth a roster spot? or a draft pick?
He has a career 53.9 completion percentage on 89 attempts and a career QB rating of 79. He's the definition of an average backup QB.
We'd be much better off investing time and resources in a draft pick that we think can develop in to a good starting QB.
For a 5th round pick, we could probably draft someone like Dan LeFevour or Zack Robinson (and pay him a lot less than we would Smith).
That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me.
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I think most are basing his talents off of Ohio St. Watching his highlights, he so looks like McNabb the way he moves around the pocket, and also how he throws. He's obviously much faster though.
I would like to have him here.
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Just clicking,
I have nothing against Smith.. nothing at all. But dang it, if we are going to improve, we gotta stop looking at mediocre players and start setting our sites higher.. JMO...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
just say no to giving the rats another pick....and that has nothing to do with my opinion on smith.
ozzie's pretty good with those late round picks.
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Quote:
if we are going to improve, we gotta stop looking at mediocre players and start setting our sites higher
After watching our QB play for the last 2 years, "mediocre" would be refreshing. At the very worst, Smith could back up Quinn - who has shown some tendencies to be brittle.
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Quote:
What has Smith done to make anyone think he's worth a roster spot? or a draft pick?
He has a career 53.9 completion percentage on 89 attempts and a career QB rating of 79. He's the definition of an average backup QB.
Those numbers are from his rookie season when he had to step in for McNair? He had beaten out flacco then got tonsillitis and was out the majority of the season. When he has played, he's shown an ability to run an offense. Something your precious BQ has yet to be able to do. I could care less that he's 6 ft, so is Drew Breeze. So far he has shown more then what BQ has. BQ is a lost cause. If he had "IT".... BQ would have risen to the top by now. I didnt like the BQ pick when we got him. I thought he was overrated in college and we gave up way too much to get him.
So I say bring in Troy. He wants to play for us, how rare is that? Draft a QB late and bring in a vet. Let them fight it out.
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Quote:
He has a career 53.9 completion percentage on 89 attempts and a career QB rating of 79. He's the definition of an average backup QB.
Better question is, how does anyone know what they have in Smith after only 89 attempts... I mean,, really,,, 89 attempts,, you can't know much about a guy after only that.. To throw out his stats for that few trys,, just doesn't even come close to a large enough sampling to have a clue what he can or can't be.
I seem to remember that he was mobile in College.. I can't remember if he was accurate. I also can't remember his arm strength.. But I remember him being a competitor..
So if he has accuracy and a decent arm, it would seem he could fall into the mold that Holmgren said he wanted..
Someone else would have to answer the accuracy and arm questions..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
if we are going to improve, we gotta stop looking at mediocre players and start setting our sites higher
After watching our QB play for the last 2 years, "mediocre" would be refreshing. At the very worst, Smith could back up Quinn - who has shown some tendencies to be brittle.
Just to clarify, a lot of people on this message board think it would be a good idea to bring in a mediocre backup QB that won a national championship for OSU? With a fan base that is infatuated with the guy on the bench.
I'm sure that won't undermine the starter one bit..... 
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I'm sure that won't undermine the starter one bit.....
Who is this mystery starter your talking about?
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Quote:
Yes, we could definitely poison pill any contract. However, I would say that if we were entertaining the notion of going after a QB like Troy Smith, why wouldn't we just hang onto Quinn?
I don't see the two as being all that different, and one is already on the roster.
I agree. I know Smith gets a lot of love around here, but if we are going after a qb, we are going to set our sights a little higher than that.
We have been screwing around with back-up QB's since 99.
Maybe it's time we try to do a little better.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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With all due respect, I'm tired of worrying about the fragile feelings of the starting QB, and whether the presence of a qualified and able backup undermines him. If the fans are clamoring for the backup, shut them up with your play on the field. No sacred cows, no guarantees, you perform or you sit.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
if we are going to improve, we gotta stop looking at mediocre players and start setting our sites higher
After watching our QB play for the last 2 years, "mediocre" would be refreshing. At the very worst, Smith could back up Quinn - who has shown some tendencies to be brittle.
Just to clarify, a lot of people on this message board think it would be a good idea to bring in a mediocre backup QB that won a national championship for OSU? With a fan base that is infatuated with the guy on the bench.
I'm sure that won't undermine the starter one bit.....
Are we bringing in Krenzel ?
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Peen,
Who do you feel is better in the free agency market then Troy? I think Delhomme and Pennington probably considered higher. But there are issues with both of them imo. Regardless, DA and the ever so beloved on this board BQ are not the answer.
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Well, just because they're not the answer:
1) Doesn't make Smith the answer; and
2) Doesn't mean they're not valuable backups for someone we may draft.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Peen,
Who do you feel is better in the free agency market then Troy? I think Delhomme and Pennington probably considered higher. But there are issues with both of them imo. Regardless, DA and the ever so beloved on this board BQ are not the answer.
There really isn't much of anything out there that is head and shoulders above what we've got. Like you said, probably Delhomme & Pennington.
So, if there are no free agents definitively better than what we have (and Troy is not), why sign anyone? What would be the point?
I think that this is why we've seen reports of us pursuing a Trade for a QB.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum PFT: Troy Smith is very available
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