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Quote:
So did Lee Suggs.
Oh no you didn't just play the Suggs card did you? 
FYI, Harrison missed 17 games in his first 4 years however, they weren't all due to injury. Suggs missed 34 games in 4 years.. and I'm pretty sure they were ALL due to injury.. Not even close to a good comparison...
Fargas is going on his 9th season,,, the team he's spent his entire career with just cut him? he was only due 1,7 million bonus (not sure what his salary was scheduled to be)
Personally, it looks to me that there are a bunch of quality RB's in this years draft. I'd take a chance on one of those before I'd go with Fargas.
but if I gotta go for a FA, I'd rather have Mike Bell.... JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
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Here's an article saying that the Eagles are asking for a 1st round pick for either McNabb or Kolb...
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Not a shocker it would take that much (in March). IMO the Eagles would let McNabb go before Kolb, hotB.
I like the idea of Ben Watson, I remember he was highly-touted on these boards, when he was coming out of college.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Suggs is a very good example, though not specifically because of injuries.
There's no proof that Harrison can hold up for a full season.
There's no proof that he's figured out how to block.
There was no proof that Suggs could stay healthy.
It's not about comparing lack of consistency because of injuries, it's about lack of consistency at all. Who is to say Harrison wouldn't have been hurt more had he even been able to get on the field at all?
So, it's about being "proven."
Keep in mind why we brought him in for a visit and consider the motive. If Holmgren and Heckert feel the need to acquire a veteran back, there must be a good reason for it. 
Now, D, seriously..........
Fargas was due "only" a $1.7 million dollar bonus. Only?!?! 
Thomas Jones, who has accomplished more than Fargas could have ever hoped to accomplish, signed for $5 million over two years, so there isn't a team in the world that would give Fargas that kind of bonus, not even Montgomery Burns 
I know you said there is some talent in the draft, but it's not experienced talent. Harrison is our most experienced ball-carrier. That's scary. We need a guy who has been in the league, who has seen what it's all about.
As noted, Fargas wouldn't be my first choice, but we need a ball-carrier who has seen this league. I like Harrison for what he might be able to do, but all he's proven is that he has natural ball-carrying instincts. That was never the question. If he goes down (he has an injury history) if he fails to put in the work (he has admitted he hasn't worked hard in the past) if he fails to block (he's been pizz-poor at that his entire career) and if he simply can't handle a full work-load (this is a complete unknown), are we going to hand the ball to the bunch of nobodies currently on our roster? That would be a huge and totally unnecessary gamble.
Holmgren knows this.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We might not have the predicament if James Davis hadn't got hurt.... just to see what he had. Yeah I can see giving Fargas a team-friendly contract. No probs there for me. I get Harrison's blocking issues for the most part, and not to start a fresh JH debate, but while people talk about how fragile he MIGHT be, how about we ride him until seeing if he's a thoroughbred or not? In other words, let's wait til Jerome gets hurt and banged up first, BEFORE we say he's going to. Any guy who runs as well as he did in December deserves the ball. In my mind, he's our starter, a season later than he should have (still didn't forget the blocking thing ).
gmstrong -----------------
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Is there anything to be said about going into 2010 with a "let's see what you've got" approach to guys like Harrison, Jennings, and Quinn?
You know what guys, you are now our starters (or for Jennings, you're our no. 2 back). Show us that all the detractors have been wrong. You don't have to look over your shoulders, you know your role and you know no one is going to take it from you. It's yours to lose.
Just brainstorming.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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There are several articles saying that..
Personally, I think that's too high a price for us to pay.. if we were the Viking and Favre retired, it's probably a better and fairer price to pay..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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j/c....
I think Fargas makes perfect sense.
We've got Harrison, fine.... but we have nothing but question marks after that.
Jennings - I was one of his bigger pimps early on, but later in the season I saw some things that I really wasn't that fond of... he needs work.
James Davis - An absolutely complete unknown. Lost season to injury, we have no idea if he can even do anything at this level. Odds are he can, but we don't KNOW that yet.
That makes for a slim depth chart at RB.... we needed to bring in another known quantity. Fargas fits that bill.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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First, a Lamp comment:
Quote:
but while people talk about how fragile he MIGHT be, how about we ride him until seeing if he's a thoroughbred or not?
Because the discussion isn't about whether or not Harrison can do it, it's whether or not it makes sense to bring in a veteran back as insurance.
As a team, we can't go into the season hoping that Harrison can hold up. We have to make sure there's a fallback option.
If you've got Favre or Manning back there, you don't worry about a backup as much as you would if you've got a Kosar or Pennington back there.
Same goes for a RB like Harrison.
Quote:
You know what guys, you are now our starters (or for Jennings, you're our no. 2 back). Show us that all the detractors have been wrong. You don't have to look over your shoulders, you know your role and you know no one is going to take it from you. It's yours to lose.
Sounds great! 
But what if it doesn't happen that way?
Can we simply just go "all in" with guys like Jennings, Quinn, Womack, Heiden, etc etc? If a guy falters and there isn't a fallback option...............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
I think Fargas makes perfect sense.
Quote:
We've got Harrison, fine....but we have nothing but question marks after that.
Quote:
we needed to bring in another known quantity
You're right Justin Fargas is a known quantity. We know he is 30 years old. We know that he has had only one above average season in his career. We shouldn't bring in a below average player just because we know what he can do. It should be because he can contribute to the team.
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Quote:
We've got Harrison, fine.... but we have nothing but question marks after that.
And I completely agree that we need to add a RB the size of Fargas.. No problem. I just think it's better to get a guy in the draft.. Rather than take a guy starting his 9th season.. that's all I'm saying...
And if you really think it's that important to bring in a Veteran, let's look at Mike Bell...
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/12/10 06:58 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I like Fargas...he is a tough runner who can carry a load.
He fits well IMO.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I like Fargas...he is a tough runner who can carry a load.
He fits well IMO.
OK,, But I'm not commenting on his ability,, I'm saying,, why pick him up when there are better backs out there available.
if all you are looking for is insurance,,yeah, maybe, But I want upgrades.. Serious upgrades.. he doesn't fit that mold in my eyes.
That's why I am an advocate of getting a young guy in the draft..
Honestly, I look at Fargas as similar to the Jamal Lewis situation. The difference is, fargas was NEVER a Jamal Lewis in terms of production..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And I completely agree that we need to add a RB the size of Fargas.. No problem.
Fargas - 220 lbs
Jennings - 219
Davis - 218
So you want to cut promising & affordable young guys to add someone that's a pound or two heavier?
We can't carry four RB's and I'm hoping you're not suggesting we dump Harrison.
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I dont want Delhomme or Fargas... 
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Agreed.
I'm not sure we should be in the RB market unless it's someone that projects as "elite" and is young enough to have a four year future.
With the gaping holes on D it would IMO be crazy to consider using an early pick on a RB. We MUST get help at safety and CB. Even OL with the departure of Fraley and Hadnot. If they want to take a flyer on a 5th rounder or later, eh... OK, but I really think we can play football with the RB's already on the roster.
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the RB position is not a weakness.. and the Browns FO are wasting their time focusing on that position when they need to be focusing on this o-line and secondary....
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I see they let Rex Hadnot slip away too.. He's signed with the Cardinals.. We should have kept him.
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Browns sign Benjamin Watson Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2010 7:05 AM ET Benjamin Watson is a Cleveland Brown. Watson, a free agent tight end who played his entire six-year career with the New England Patriots, has signed a three-year deal with the Browns. As first reported by ESPN's Adam Schefter, it's a $12 million contract with $6.35 million guaranteed. A league source who confirmed the deal to PFT says the $6.35 million guaranteed will be paid out completely in the first year of the deal. The 29-year-old Watson played in all 16 games for the Patriots last season, starting seven and catching 29 passes for 404 yards and five touchdowns. web page
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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I remember last year during training camp and OTA's how Hadnot was getting 1st team reps over Steinbach and it was such a "buzz". Then they let him walk away this year without even seeming to have any interest in trying to retain him...
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Quote:
So you want to cut promising & affordable young guys to add someone that's a pound or two heavier?
In case you weren't paying attention, I don't want Fargas.. But to get a bigger guy (and please don't just show weight and assume they are the same) I'm all for going in the draft,, then yeah I'd drop either jennings or maybe davis depending on how they look in camp..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Watson on board,,, Check
Good pick up,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm just working with what you said, in that you "completely agree that we need to sign someone the size of Fargas". If you're not going by weight, what are you looking at? Height? There isn't a significant difference there either.
The thought of cutting Davis -who was on the verge of winning the starting job prior to being injured - to make room for a rookie doesn't make any sense when there are so many desperate needs elsewhere.
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i had just googled ben watson.. and nothing came up.. lol.. and now he is signed..
Cool!! I think he can be a threat on the field. Now if he and Moore can get the 1-2 spots.... We will be REAL str8 at TE.
Good pick up!
I hate to say this.. but its time for Heiden to go.. Time for Royal to go.. Time for Gaines to go..
Draft Tony Moeaki and we have:
Watson
Moore
Moeaki..
I mean how many TE's do we need on the roster? Adding Watson we have 6.
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Take the best blocker and get him to add 50, play RT.
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I'm going to assume that none of the older TE's we have can block if we had Fraley in there as the TE/ 6th o-lineman...
Granted Fraley is/was a good blocker, but man... Putting him in there kind of tips your hand to 1) The guys we have can't block.. and 2) There is a good chance you can stack the box cuz theres a greater chance of run than pass.
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A couple of things here,, I'm not convinced, as many seem to be, that a combination of harrison and Davis and Vickers can't carry the load for the year.. But if we want to add a bigger back, I think there are better choices than Fargas..
As for weight,, several folks on here chastised me for looking strickly at weight when comparing RB's.
I compared Maurice Drew Jones to Jerome Harrison and got ripped..
Jones: 5'7", 208
Harrison: 5'9", 205
Similar right, but then someone came up with Jones has legs that look like tree trunks.. and then I got hit by about 10 posters on here saying similar things.
So, I finally said,, OK,, if that's true, then you can't just go by height and weight. When I look at it, it makes sense.. if I gave you my height and weight, you'd say.. big guy.. but upon meeting me, you'd see I'm tall and fat and out of shape.. on paper, me and KW2 are damn near identical... LOL
Let me repeat something,, What I saw of Davis last year leads me to believe there is real talent there. So I'd not cut him unless he fell apart in camp. Jenning showed some real flashes also. So Camp will tell.
But IF they really want a BIGGER back,, I'm ok with that.. but just not Fargas..
keep in mind, I was one of the guys that didn't want jamal Lewis also.. I kinda had to eat crow after his first year here.. But in the end, he stayed too long..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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the Shanahan coached Donks proved that a mid-round pick can carry the load. I'd rather get one of those types than a back at the end of his career. And why does any team need a "big" back? Weather conditions be damned. A small nimble back can have less nimble LBs sliding all over the place in the mud and snow.
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Really glad we were able to sign Watson. I like this move, I hope it means the end of Royal.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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The Browns are idiots.. whats the point of drafting guys late if you are never going to give them an opportunity to prove to you why they were drafted..
Davis is a beast!! He killed it at Clemson.
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Quote:
on paper, me and KW2 are damn near identical... LOL
OK, that made me laugh 
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I can play this game... On paper.. Me and Desean Jackson are similar.. but on the field.. yea.. 
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Quote:
the Shanahan coached Donks proved that a mid-round pick can carry the load. I'd rather get one of those types than a back at the end of his career. And why does any team need a "big" back? Weather conditions be damned. A small nimble back can have less nimble LBs sliding all over the place in the mud and snow.
And we already have a 250 lb back on the roster name Vickers. Every coach we've had has praised him for his agility, versatility, and power. What else would you want from a 4th & 1 back??
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If we can find a solid veteran WR, Wallace (or whoever our QB is this year) should have solid weapons on the field.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I've said for the longest that the Browns should use Vickers like the Ravens use McClain..
A RB / FB role... But of course.. The Browns want diverse players, but don't want to actually use them in diverse ways...
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The Browns want diverse players, but don't want to actually use them in diverse ways...
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Quote:
OK, that made me laugh
Ahh, then it had it's desired effect 
My point was that if I shared my height and weight with you, you'd see I'm very close to the perfect measurables of a LB or TE.. However, I am in fact, A fat old slob...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I remember last year during training camp and OTA's how Hadnot was getting 1st team reps over Steinbach and it was such a "buzz". Then they let him walk away this year without even seeming to have any interest in trying to retain him...
That's because he sucked.
See any teams out there offering Hadnot a starters gig? He's going to be a backup. He knows he's now a backup. That's why he signed while he could.
I'm elated we let hadnot go.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Browns sign Benjamin Watson
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2010 7:05 AM ET
Benjamin Watson is a Cleveland Brown.
Watson, a free agent tight end who played his entire six-year career with the New England Patriots, has signed a three-year deal with the Browns. As first reported by ESPN's Adam Schefter, it's a $12 million contract with $6.35 million guaranteed.
A league source who confirmed the deal to PFT says the $6.35 million guaranteed will be paid out completely in the first year of the deal.
The 29-year-old Watson played in all 16 games for the Patriots last season, starting seven and catching 29 passes for 404 yards and five touchdowns.
web page
Good..there will be few offensive players drafted....experience on that side of the ball,youth on the defensive side.
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Have the Browns inquired about what it take to sign you?
Signing Fargas means the end to either Jennings or DAvis.Signing Watson means the end to one,and hopefully more of the bums that were at TE last year.
Wallace,bye-bye Anderson.Delhomme,this is where it gets interesting.Logic dictates that Quinn will be traded,or cut.
If our success in the near future hinges on the hope that Holmgren can resurrect the career of a washed-up QB,then it would appear that I'll be keeping alot of Mexicans working in the tequila industry gainfully imployed.
A new regime,another rebuild.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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