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My point is that he's had those 3 years. He couldn't improve quick enough in his rookie camp to pass Anderson on the depth chart. He didn't impress enough to take over for Anderson in camp or during the season in 2008. For every time Anderson hit edwards in the hands and he dropped it, he'd have 4 others that missed edwards. In 2009, Quinn didn't impress enough to keep Anderson off the field. By his 3rd year in the league, a 1st round QB should be able to take over a team and keep it, whether he was riding the bench or not. It's not that his development has been too slow, it's that he hasn't developed quickly enough. He's had the time. He should be uncontested as the starter by now, if he's of starting caliber.
how do you all figure he has had time to develop?? in 2007 his rookie year he got into the LAST GAME for 8 pass attempts in 2008 he got into the last 3 games.... it wasnt till last year that he got true playing time which is what he shoulld have gotten since day one... how can you blame him for his inconsistencies when our coaching staff and front office has been inconsistant???
i still say keep him this year start him as the stater in TRAINING CAMP not the LAST PRESEASON GAME and run with him.. draft a QB and get this org running right but to say he has has his chance to prove himself you all are just flat out that delousional ... he's had ONE ONE ONE full year to play out of 3 years and you know he wasnt starting in 2007 when anderson had a probowl year the year before......first 2 years in the league 32 possible games he plays in 4 and 2 was scrub wash up time....... sorry but you all are just wrong on this
I am the artist that was known as Dawgmanincincy
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I don't think the Browns believe that BQ is worth a crap, and I agree.
Inspite of the cries from the BQ fan base he was given the same chance every other QB in the league was given, and failed, BADLY failed.
But having said all that even if they thought that with more seasoning BQ could develop it just wouldn't be a healthy situation here in Cleveland for the new starter or for a young draft pick. There would always be the crys from the BQ fan base and that wouldn't be healthy.
Quite frankly I have seen enough of the blind love affair that surrounds BQ. He hasn't shown so much as a flash of what could be if he was given time, so why give it to him. So we can waste another season going down a blind alley? No thanks.
IJMHO but it's time to cut loose of BQ and start over with a clean slate.
I wish both DA and BQ much success in whatever they do so long as it's not here in Cleveland, I for one have seen enough.
If we can't get anything for BQ MH most likely will just cut him. It may not seem like the smart thing but it would be. This controversy started with BQ's arrival and it will end with his departure. It's not his fault but it has to end for the good of the team.
I think DA and perhaps BQ could have developed into good QB's if they had been handled better, and I don't dismiss that fact as being one of the reasons both have failed so badly. But we can't dwell on the past thats done we can only go forward without either on this team. A new start for DA and BQ, and new start for the Browns.
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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If a coach/GM/Pres is going to choose "his guy" over someone better qualified, he should be fired.
I suppose that's true.. But are you saying Quinn is better qualified?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I've been thinking all day that the Browns will draft Colt McCoy in the 3rd..
I agree, only I'm think'en 2nd round, but McCoy is right on. 
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Here is my take, and nothing more... I see this scenario playing out... Seattle signs Charlie whitehurst to an offer sheet.. But wait they do not have a third... do you see where this is going. Curtains open, Mr. Hasselback, welcome to the Ceveland Browns for a third round pick... And the next thing is, I have the same feeling as everyone else. We draft Mr. McCoy.. I am throwing this out there so bash me, but it does make sense.
I am almost certain that when you sign someone to an offer sheet, it has to be for your original pick in that round and not one you acquired in a trade. If you don't have your pick in that round, then you're out of luck. You'd have to do a sign and trade thing.
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Legend
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I think DA and perhaps BQ could have developed into good QB's if they had been handled better, and I don't dismiss that fact as being one of the reasons both have failed so badly.
Brown to the Bone...I agree with your comment above.
From 1999 to Dec. 2009, when the Browns hired Mike Holmgren, this franchise, would have to rank as one of the worst in the NFL at developing young QBs.
The constant changes in the coaching staff...HC, OC, QB coach, all have contributed to the Browns dismal record of not being able to take raw QB talent and developing them into decent QBs.
As for the subject of Quinn being offered in trade...I would not be surprised if he were cut by the Browns if no trade offers materialize. Starting with a clean slate might be a better option for the Browns than attempting to develop Quinn.
If Quinn is gone, I would look for the Browns to draft or trade for another young QB to develop.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Actually .... what I really think is going to happen is that the Browns will let other teams have their Wildcat ......
We're gonna have the WilderCats!
We'll draft Tebow, and line him, Cribbs, and Wallace all up in the shotgun ..... snap the ball to one of them ... and generally confuse the living hell out of the defense ..... 
I don't hate that idea  With all the presnap shifts it could really be a headache to read and adjust to. All three are good enough QBs to complete 10-15 yard passes, all three could take off running and make plays. Screens, flea flickers, reverses.....
It might be fun to watch. I know you were kidding, but, still.....
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Legend
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Well ..... Holmgren did promise something "fun" ........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm lukewarm on McCoy just as I am others, but I have a strong feeling that the Browns are not about to jump up to take Bradford..if he doesn't fall to them ,they'll wait to take a project later..and I'm not sure I'd take Bradford if Berry is sitting there at 7.
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My opinon is MH being a QB guru, & a offensive minded guy, is still smart enough to understand what wins championships...Defence...and with out first pick or two we go CB / Safety combo, If McCoy or other is still thier in 2nd - 3rd we than take him if he's gone we look elsewhere maybe next year,
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Mike & Mike are discussing this as I type . . .
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Legend
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I'm not sure I'd take Bradford if Berry is sitting there at 7.
I doubt both will be there at 7.. so,, as Forrest Gump would say... One less thing to worry about
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/11/10 10:07 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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show me a good qb and I will show a stable front office..a organization on the same page and a OC that knows how to run a offense and a darn good QB's coach and oh yeah a sturdy oline suurounded with playmakers.
Did Brady Quinn have those elements in his favor over the last few years..no....
having Brian Daboil as a OC will stunt any QB.
What has Carl Smith done as QB's coach....
Stuckey and Massaqiou would even bring Drew Brees numbers down.....
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Not sure why you are telling me that.. maybe you were just clicking
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
show me a good qb and I will show a stable front office..a organization on the same page and a OC that knows how to run a offense and a darn good QB's coach and oh yeah a sturdy oline suurounded with playmakers.
Did Brady Quinn have those elements in his favor over the last few years..no....
having Brian Daboil as a OC will stunt any QB.
What has Carl Smith done as QB's coach....
Stuckey and Massaqiou would even bring Drew Brees numbers down.....
I cannot argue these statements. They also lend an ear to DA's inconsistency. Now that he's gone, should Quinn be given a chance to operate under what we think is a good FO ? I think so, but I am but a pawn in the game of life.
I think either Quinn is gone, or, MH is rusing up a good show here to keep the rest of league guessing on draft day.
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All Pro
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show me a good qb and I will show a stable front office..a organization on the same page and a OC that knows how to run a offense and a darn good QB's coach and oh yeah a sturdy oline suurounded with playmakers.
Did Brady Quinn have those elements in his favor over the last few years..no....
having Brian Daboil as a OC will stunt any QB.
What has Carl Smith done as QB's coach....
Stuckey and Massaqiou would even bring Drew Brees numbers down.....
When you like the QB the above are 'facts'.
When you don't like the QB the above are 'excuses'.
Ah the life of a Browns fan
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I fully expect the Browns to go defense with their first two picks..possibly three..they want to go younger ..and they need secondary help..best make a run on the DB's as early as possible.
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but to say he has has his chance to prove himself you all are just flat out that delousional ...
Then, apparently, so are Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My opinon is MH being a QB guru, & a offensive minded guy, is still smart enough to understand what wins championships...Defence...
The two teams in the most recent Super Bowl weren't very defensive. Indy was ranked 8th and New Orleans was 20th in opponents PPG. Indy was 2nd and New Orleans was 3rd in offensive passing. And Indy was dead last in offensive rushing per game (New Orleans was 6th). I know, I know....stats are what they are.
What does that mean? The old notion that defense and a strong running game wins titles isn't a lock anymore. Yes, the Jets were #1 in PPG and rushing....but they fizzled out in the playoffs when trying to keep pace with the Colts offense (and they couldn't). It's a passing league now. Teams that can pass will win more often than before. All they need is an average running game and defense.
Therefore, we NEED a QB. Is it Quinn, Wallace, Delholmme, McCoy, Bradford, McNabb, Kolb? I don't know. I hope MH and our coaching staff knows.
Without a QB, we won't win anything in this league.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
My opinon is MH being a QB guru, & a offensive minded guy, is still smart enough to understand what wins championships...Defence...
The two teams in the most recent Super Bowl weren't very defensive. Indy was ranked 8th and New Orleans was 20th in opponents PPG. Indy was 2nd and New Orleans was 3rd in offensive passing. And Indy was dead last in offensive rushing per game (New Orleans was 6th). I know, I know....stats are what they are.
What does that mean? The old notion that defense and a strong running game wins titles isn't a lock anymore. Yes, the Jets were #1 in PPG and rushing....but they fizzled out in the playoffs when trying to keep pace with the Colts offense (and they couldn't). It's a passing league now. Teams that can pass will win more often than before. All they need is an average running game and defense.
Therefore, we NEED a QB. Is it Quinn, Wallace, Delholmme, McCoy, Bradford, McNabb, Kolb? I don't know. I hope MH and our coaching staff knows.
Without a QB, we won't win anything in this league.
he knows that....that is why we are upgrading the position. It isn't the future he is addressing at this point, he is improving the here and now.
The here and now is still pretty important.
Exactly how bad are you and others willing to allow it to get before the future arrives??
Just saying
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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but to say he has has his chance to prove himself you all are just flat out that delousional ...
Then, apparently, so are Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert.
Link in here the article where both holmgren and heckertt are quoted as saying that about Quinn.......
the funny thing is Im not even a Quinn lover he;s on the team so I root for him,.. but it wouldnt kill me one way or another like if cribbs or thomas we to be cut....
but facts are facts he hasn't done crap because he's had crap to work with.. his completion percentage would be up if you took out all the drops BE had alone...
inconsistant Yes.. still raw..yes..... given a true chance to prove himself NO
case closed
I am the artist that was known as Dawgmanincincy
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Hardly closed.
He hasn't improved.....the brain trust sees that and aren't willing to stick with a guy who is at or near his ceiling.
You have to think back to when Quinn was drafted....he fell like a rock...it is apparent many teams didn't see him as a very good prospect...time is showing those GMs and coaches were probably correct.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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1st String
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Lets not also forget he has had 2 OC in the 3 years here and brian daboll has the offensive playbook of a peewee football team..... and no recievers backs and a weak right side to deal with too... there are too many factors to blame whats wrong with this offense then to say quinn isnt the answer..... we been dealing with the answer we got a RG/RT in pashos we draft another get a back and a reciever
I am the artist that was known as Dawgmanincincy
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I guess we could play that games forever.....bottom line is Quinn is done in Cleveland.
The new regime needs to wash their hands of everything that reeked QB controversy in Cleveland.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hopefully if we do trade Quinn, we get something worthwhile. I'll vomit if we end up with a 6th or 7th rounder.
If nobody is willing to give up much, maybe a package deal of Quinn and a pick for their 3rd, or something along those lines. We have the picks to work with. A bit sad that he never fully had a shot, but at the same time, he never seemed to progress. A couple good games mixed in with a few where he was totally lost probably makes Holmgren and Co. feel a bit uneasy I'm sure.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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he knows that....that is why we are upgrading the position. It isn't the future he is addressing at this point, he is improving the here and now.
The here and now is still pretty important.
Exactly how bad are you and others willing to allow it to get before the future arrives??
Just saying
I get ya. I think MH and his crew are working on both (now & future). We may get rid of Quinn but we have Wallace as a segway....and we'll be drafting a guy in the first three rounds.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I get ya. I think MH and his crew are working on both (now & future). We may get rid of Quinn but we have Wallace as a segway....and we'll be drafting a guy after the first two rounds.
Fixed it for ya. 
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Thanks for fixing.... We'll see.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I guess we could play that games forever.....bottom line is Quinn is done in Cleveland.
The new regime needs to wash their hands of everything that reeked QB controversy in Cleveland.
And this is the true heart of the matter. They are doing nobody, not even Quinn, any favors by prolonging this mess. If he is all that he was advertised maybe a change of scenery will help bring it out.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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A lot of you are forgetting that BQ was deemed "the most NFL ready" QB coming out of that draft. The promise was that he would be able to come in right away and perform at an acceptable level. Well, it's been three years now and I still haven't really seen it.
All he has shown to me so far is incredible inaccuracy on intermediate to long throws (anyone remember the two back-to-back passes 10 yards out of bounds during the Monday night game?) and average accuracy on short throws. His arm strength is average, and it's below average when he tries to aim his passes instead of firing them into tight spots. He checks down way too fast. He's somewhat mobile, but he's no Mike Vick, and his pocket awareness is kinda bad. He's also ended up injured the last two years. He's above average at running the no-huddle offense. I also think (judging by body language) that a lot of the players don't view him as a leader.
So, how about you tell me what skills BQ, the most NFL ready QB coming out of the draft, has shown you these last three years. And remember, the front office and coaches have little impact on throwing accuracy, so don't try to use them as excuses...
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Hopefully if we do trade Quinn, we get something worthwhile. I'll vomit if we end up with a 6th or 7th rounder.
If nobody is willing to give up much, maybe a package deal of Quinn and a pick for their 3rd, or something along those lines. We have the picks to work with. A bit sad that he never fully had a shot, but at the same time, he never seemed to progress. A couple good games mixed in with a few where he was totally lost probably makes Holmgren and Co. feel a bit uneasy I'm sure.
You might as well stick close to the toilet or have a bucket in hand, because I doubt we will get more in a straight up deal.
My thinking is Quinn will be a throw-in on some other deal.
I don't know if another GM would want Quinn to be the focus of any trade....has flop written all over it. Include him in a larger deal, the GM can point to other components of the deal and say Quinn was simply a sweetener that was worth the shot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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He hasn't improved.....the brain trust sees that and aren't willing to stick with a guy who is at or near his ceiling.
I agree, he hasn't improved at all.. not even a little bit really. on that you will get no argument from me.
The way in which he was handled since being drafted,, well, let's just say that it was horrible.
Holmgren himself said that QB competitions are NOT healthy (I'm paraphrasing) for a team. That a team has to pick someone and stick with them for a couple of years..
We've not done that with ANY QB we've had since our return.. It's no wonder we find ourselves in the same hole we were in in 1999....
At some point, and I think the time may have passed for Quinn, we are going to have to pick someone and let them mature and grow into the best they can be.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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The Browns - or any team - would need to give up at least a first-round pick for either Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb or Kevin Kolb, ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reported this morning.
Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
Come one Andy Reid, give your old buddy Mike Holmgren a discount.
A first round pick is pretty steep. Especially for a 34 year old McNabb. If we could get Kolb I might consider flipping 1st rounders with them. But it doesn't seem like we are interested in the Eagles guys.
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Holmgren himself said that QB competitions are NOT healthy (I'm paraphrasing) for a team. That a team has to pick someone and stick with them for a couple of years..
don't you think it's kinda funny how each year, most fans had called for a qb battle in camp because, and i'm paraphrasing, "it'll bring out the best in both guys"?
overall, i think a few of these guys from 99 could've made it but ultimately, i'm betting the fans had just as much to do with the poor development of the qbs as the other parts.
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don't you think it's kinda funny how each year, most fans had called for a qb battle in camp because, and i'm paraphrasing, "it'll bring out the best in both guys"?
Just goes to show you how little even the most knowledgable fans really know doesn't it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I would gladly trade 1st round picks with them and throw in quinn for Kolb. I want not part of McNabb though.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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how do you improve with a HC and GM thats not willng to call the starter till the last pre-season game and is sharing the reps he should be taking in practice with DA ... how do you improve with an OC thats calling little league pee-wee flag football plays....
how do you improve with a recieving corps that led with a reciever that has tied for the most dropped passes in that 3 year span with BM but doesnt make the big explosive plays like BM has.....
how do you improve with a non exsistant non consistant right side of an offensive line that continued o be reshuffled game in and game out......
im sorry but you could put manning or brady in the same line up that we had and they would have failed to prove anything too......
do I think brady is gone too... yes... do I think the most NFL ready qb to come out of the draft had a fair chane or shake here HELL NO!!!!
I am the artist that was known as Dawgmanincincy
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But would give up our 1st round pick for Kolb? Last year the Patriots got a 2nd rounder for Cassel and he started a full season. Kolb has started only two games.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
Our first round pick straight up for Kolb? That I am not sure of, as its a steep price. The arguement could be made however that he could step in from day 1 and start. If we were to use the pick on a guy like Clausen I suppose I would rather go with Kolb as our QB over a rookie like Clausen. Im not sure either way, its a tough question.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brady Quinn being offered for
trade
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