ALOT will be told IF DELHOMME signs with us today if he is inked then BQ is certainly 100% gone.. then I think we are certainly drafting a QB in the draft
what about javon snead with one of the 3rd round picks im still shopping tebow with the 2nd round pick
Quote: ALOT will be told IF DELHOMME signs with us today if he is inked then BQ is certainly 100% gone.. then I think we are certainly drafting a QB in the draft
what about javon snead with one of the 3rd round picks im still shopping tebow with the 2nd round pick
I'd rather go with McCoy or Dan LeFevour or however you spell it.
Snead is awful and Tebow is a major, major project.
I think Jevan Snead would be an excellent pick in the 3rd or 4th round.
Is it possible that Delhomme is being brought in as a 3rd string QB to mentor Brady Quinn? I'm not saying that why he is being brought in, just thinking out loud.
Also, if that is the case, why would he go to the Browns? Wouldn't he go to a team who would give a better chance at starting?
Quote: I think Jevan Snead would be an excellent pick in the 3rd or 4th round.
Is it possible that Delhomme is being brought in as a 3rd string QB to mentor Brady Quinn? I'm not saying that why he is being brought in, just thinking out loud.
Also, if that is the case, why would he go to the Browns? Wouldn't he go to a team who would give a better chance at starting?
Delhomme doesn't strike me as a guy you'd want to mentor younger QB's. JMHO.
I'd think he'd more be the fail-safe so we don't have a rookie as backup QB.
I think someone is going to get really good value with McCoy, Snead, LeFevour, and Zac Robinson. All these guys are extremely athletic and have had some success in college throwing the ball. If they are taken as developmental guys who aren't going to start for a couple seasons I think they could all be NFL starting QB's.
Although I am really intrigued by Colt McCoy. If he throws well at his Pro Day I don't think he makes it out of the 1st round.
I defanitly agree with you there I think if he has an OUTSTANDING pro day it might shake things up and watch jax take him with the 10th pick stranger things have happened in the draft
Quote: Holmgren himself said that QB competitions are NOT healthy (I'm paraphrasing) for a team. That a team has to pick someone and stick with them for a couple of years..
don't you think it's kinda funny how each year, most fans had called for a qb battle in camp because, and i'm paraphrasing, "it'll bring out the best in both guys"?
overall, i think a few of these guys from 99 could've made it but ultimately, i'm betting the fans had just as much to do with the poor development of the qbs as the other parts.
I think fans have to have some impact. You would like to think players and coaches could ignore all of that, but come on, they are humans just like us....they hear and feel.
I have never been big on QB competitions. For as long as I have posted here I have said you need one clear cut starter, no matter his talent level, and then the other guy.
I warned people of the coming nightmare back when Couch and Holcomb were at it....people laughed or yelled at me like I was crazy.....and that is when all of this started and we haven't broken the chain.....maybe until now.
Holmgren needs to just get rid of Quinn...the remainder of that faulty chain and start fresh.
As long as we maintain the set-up and culture we have formed in Cleveland, we are never going win.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: Delhomme doesn't strike me as a guy you'd want to mentor younger QB's. JMHO.
why is that? I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about Delhomme...
I don't think he's what I'd call a bright football mind. He's a gunslinger and I think teaching a young QB who doesn't have a strong arm gunslinger methods is a recipe for disaster.
Quote: But would give up our 1st round pick for Kolb? Last year the Patriots got a 2nd rounder for Cassel and he started a full season. Kolb has started only two games.
Atlanta got 2 2nd rounders and a player for Schaub after he only started 2 games.
I don't think he's going to be teaching a guy to throw the ball all over the place. He can still teach him the game, how to read coverages, picking out the blitzes, etc.
The silence coming out of Browns HQ's is deafening... if Quinn was their "young" guy they'd have said so by now. He's as good as gone... IMO. And I'm happy we finally might have some clarity at the QB position.
For those who are against a Wallace, Delhomme, Rookie type situation... what has given you the impression that Quinn, DA, Ratliff would be any better. At least with these moves we are making there is a clear path.
Wallace starts until we find a top 5-10 QB in the league. In the meantime... who knows... maybe Wallace is that guy. He's certainly looked pretty good in the games he's started thus far. Delhomme can sit back and teach... maybe step in a few games if Wallace gets dinged. I've got no problem with bringing in Delhomme as the backup. He's played at a high level before. Recently he's been on the down side of his career... but as are most backups.
As for the rookie... my vote is for Z. Robinson in the 5th. But I'd be happy with McCoy, Lefeavor, Skelton, Robinson or Hall. They'd compete with Ratcliff in camp for the number 3.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
Delhomme is far from a gunslinger. His arm is average at best... His success was due to timing,precision, and possibly the best wide reciever in football IMO. I've watched Carolina pretty often the past couple years, as it's my fathers wife's favorite team. His timing and accuracy the past year just isn't what it use to be. He seems to get rattled fairly easily... and tries to force the ball to Smith too much. But I think the main problem I've seen with him is he has ZERO confidence right now. He's not trusting himself. Sort of reminds me of Warner a bit when he played for the Giants.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
Quote: As for the rookie... my vote is for Z. Robinson in the 5th. But I'd be happy with McCoy, Lefeavor, Skelton, Robinson or Hall. They'd compete with Ratcliff in camp for the number 3.
If we drafted a QB to develop into our starter there will be no competition with Ratliff.
Also, I don't think Skelton is the type of QB Holmgren looks for. He is a Anderson clone. Big guy, strong arm, not a lot of polish or accuracy.
Quote: Big guy, strong arm, not a lot of polish or accuracy.
How do you know this? You been watching his games at Fordham? From the highlights I've seen of him... he's very mobile and seems to be able to throw the football fairly well. The only knock I've read on him is his competition. Ratliff is still young enough.. that if he proves he might be the young guy to Holmgren in training camp... and he outperforms the rookie taken later in the draft (> 4th rd). You better believe they'll keep Ratliff and try to sneak the other guy on the PS. Now if they pick someone up in the 2nd or 3rd... then yeah. Your probably right.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
Quote: ALOT will be told IF DELHOMME signs with us today if he is inked then BQ is certainly 100% gone.. then I think we are certainly drafting a QB in the draft
what about javon snead with one of the 3rd round picks im still shopping tebow with the 2nd round pick
No thanks on Snead. While watching the combine, he was throwing to RBs in their drills. I'm not sure what his completion percentage was in college, but his accuracy was terrible. He looked the worst of all the QBs to me in that drill. If he didn't throw for 60 - 65% (or better) in college, I wouldn't touch him - accuracy is vital in a WCO and it's becoming obvious that we're implementing some semblence of it here.
The more I read and watch Skelton, the more he intrigues me. He'd be my second choice at QB behind Colt McCoy (though am not wanting to draft him with our 2nd rounder). I think McCoy could be the best WCO QB in this years draft. He reminds me somewhat of three guys in different ways: Drew Brees, Matt Hasselbeck, and Alex Smith. PRO: He's athletic, mobile, smart, good decision maker, quick release and acdurate as heck...CON: smaller than a lot of teams desire, questions on arm strength, and needs some work on his footwork. The PROs make him a 1st rounder, but the CONs drop him. If he's there with our first 3rd rounder, I'd be surprised if MH doesn't pull the trigger.
Quote: I don't think he's what I'd call a bright football mind. He's a gunslinger and I think teaching a young QB who doesn't have a strong arm gunslinger methods is a recipe for disaster.
To each his own, but I know of nobody that thinks anything ill of Delhomme. He's a guy that fell of course.. he's not the player he was 5 years ago for certain. But I am not sure you are even remotely correct about his intellect as it relates to football,, nothing I've seen points to that..
Not saying you aren't right, I just don't see how you arrive at that conclusion..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: The Browns - or any team - would need to give up at least a first-round pick for either Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb or Kevin Kolb, ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reported this morning.
As the draft gets closer the picks become 2nd rounders than 3rd rounders...so why pull the trigger on anything right now, it's only March
My hopes are that we sign Delhomme, we have never really had a legitimate backup QB who has done a single thing in the NFL.
If we can sign on Delhomme and get a stop-gap out of either him or Wallace for a year and then draft a QB next year or even pick up a young up and comer in free agency then i'm all for it.
Delhomme is a guy who has done alot of good things in this league and is an experienced vet. Along with his experience and Wallace's in the WCO that alone could be an extremely valuable asset to a youngster coming in next year.
We have had pretty much nothing but youngsters as backups on thsi team for quite some time.
It seems like we always did it backwards. We brought in Dilfer and Garcia to start when they were past their prime (Garcia still had some game left but he was a square peg in a round hole, no pun intended) and we had youngsters with no up-side.
I would like to bring in a young guy with some up-side and a savvy vet past his prime that still might be able to win a game or two if need be.
Guy's like Brees, Eli, Romo, Brady and Palmer have all had a seasoned veteran behind them at some point very early in their career.
That's not a highlight real. It's one game. Though, I'm guessing the incompletions were left out. Unless he threw a perfect game
Of note... the other knock I've seen and heard on him is the system he's come from. Not only is it a small school... but they run a spread which primarily has him taking shotgun snaps.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
It's funny that every time I see some kind of NFL update I expect it to say the Browns have traded Quinn. So far nothing. I won't be surprised if he is still a Brown come training camp.
Quote: Lets not also forget he has had 2 OC in the 3 years here and brian daboll has the offensive playbook of a peewee football team..... and no recievers backs and a weak right side to deal with too... there are too many factors to blame whats wrong with this offense then to say quinn isnt the answer..... we been dealing with the answer we got a RG/RT in pashos we draft another get a back and a reciever
None of that matters.
All that matters is that not only have we traded for Wallace, but we're STILL pursuing other veteran QB's.
That doesn't happen if they believe in Quinn.
He's had plenty of time to prove himself. The "proof" doesn't have to come in the form of 300-yard games or zero-interception games. It comes in terms of showing growth, of showing maturity, of showing the ability to be coached, of showing the ability to be brave under pressure.
What you want is the chance to "prove himself" in ideal circumstances.
Goodluck with that.
Most QB's don't get that opportunity, and waiting for it is not a requisite for a final judgment.
Wallace is here and Holmgren STILL brought in Delhomme for a visit. He didn't do that with the idea that one of them is going to be our 3rd stringer. Their sheer presence tells us ALL how Holmgren and Heckert feel about Quinn.
"case closed."
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
All that matters is that not only have we traded for Wallace, but we're STILL pursuing other veteran QB's.
That doesn't happen if they believe in Quinn.
He's had plenty of time to prove himself. The "proof" doesn't have to come in the form of 300-yard games or zero-interception games. It comes in terms of showing growth, of showing maturity, of showing the ability to be coached, of showing the ability to be brave under pressure.
What you want is the chance to "prove himself" in ideal circumstances.
Goodluck with that.
Most QB's don't get that opportunity, and waiting for it is not a requisite for a final judgment.
Wallace is here and Holmgren STILL brought in Delhomme for a visit. He didn't do that with the idea that one of them is going to be our 3rd stringer. Their sheer presence tells us ALL how Holmgren and Heckert feel about Quinn.
"case closed."
+100
You took the words right out of my post . What can I say ?
Quote: It's funny that every time I see some kind of NFL update I expect it to say the Browns have traded Quinn. So far nothing. I won't be surprised if he is still a Brown come training camp.
They're probably taking their time trying to get the most they can.
Just another new 5-year plan. Shake it up, throw it on the wall, see what sticks.
I actually think we did have several guys with upside.. McCown, Wynn, Bartel and even Couch and I think Quinn had upside (he still may).. Not one of them were given a fair chance under one plan to succeed..
Too damn chefs spoil the soup and we have had a ton of chefs.. That's for sure.
But that's yesterdays news at this point, there really isn't any merit argueing that.
So, where do we go from here?
Dump everybody, get a clean slate.
1. Get a guy that knows the system and has real upside (wallace). CHECK
2. Get a veteran that's close to the end of his career but might be ok sitting behind a couple of young guys to add some stability, (delhomme, but really there are several that fit that mold)
3. Draft someone that you think can be developed over the next several years..
May not be the plan that everyone on here would like, but at least it's a plan..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
This is my maiden post. Are we trading Quinn or not. I have heard Nothing from Holmgren that says He is trading Quinn so they are just rumors. !2 games in three years is hardly an audition. But I will play Devils advocate what is gained from making everyone think we are done with Quinn? Does it change perception of whom we draft? Would Holmgren leak no faith in Quinn and torpedo any trade value? Is Holmgren so green a horse trader? i remember a comment he was quoted on in January about the way to build a team is NOT TO GIVE AWAY TALENT already on the roster. I thought it was a dig in How the browns traded Winslow and Edwards for chump change...so why we he do that with Quinn? It is not consistent. I say we are keeping Quinn whether we sign Delhomme or not. Let others guess and sniff, Holmgren is saying Nothing. DA stunk and he deserves to be gone. Quinn may get the tutelage in Holmgren he needs to thrive and an offense that fits his talents. he is going NOWHERE.
That's a good point. If MH and company really have as little faith in BQ and are trying to trade him, they are doing a historically bad job of keeping whatever trade value he has (if any).
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
Quote: May not be the plan that everyone on here would like, but at least it's a plan.
You're right, I don't love the plan, but it is a plan. Not crazy about Delomme or Seneca Freakin' Wallace, but the fact is they do fit the system foisted on Mangini. Quinn does not. In the WCO, you have to be extremely accurate, able to make quick decisions, you have to hit WRs in stride, you have to be able to throw on the run, and lob the occasional deep ball. As much as I wanted him to work out, he does not excel in these areas. Not quite sure where it is he excels, (maybe in the weight room,) but it is definitely not in these areas. So, sadly, bye-bye Brady.
JMHO
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
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