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"one of the few who would side with me"
I think you could have ended your sentence right there.
You asked for the recipe for a cajun martini a few weeks back.I plan on seeing my bartendress this evening.If I can keep my misguided delusions of granduor at bay I'll ask her for it.
Don't worry...that nugget is logged....payback can happen at any time....even years from now.  LOL
Please do...I would be interested....thanks
I know it doesn't contain any lighter fluid or toilet water, so I will be reviewing that formula rather closely.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think he was reffering to the input on qb's not the coaching of them.
Holmgren has stated numerous times he will not coach this year.
that is what I remember.. I also remember that he has stated a million times, that he's NOT going to be coaching but that his door is open so that mangini can walk in and discuss anything..
well when i think of coaching, a lot of it is scheme and offense whereas i think he can be involved in the background specifically for just the development of the qb as a whole, i.e. not necessarily breaking down film but working with the qb on how to do it and then working with qb coach to point out what flaws need to be worked on and how.
that was just my take when i read it at the time.
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"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Legend
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Just clicking..
I have a rather dumb question I think..
Why didn't Brady Quinn go to Ohio State? Was he offered anything from them?
Just wondering...
This would have been at or around the Tressel take over,...I'm not making excuses at all for either he or Cooper, but IIRC, at that juncture the Buckeyes had a deep stable of QB's -- (COLLEGE QB's) -- I don't even know if they actually talked to him at all. He may have been committed to Notre Dame as early as 2000. I do know he did not go to a parochial high school.
I don't THINK he was offered, but I do not know.
I know that doesn't help much. 
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Just clicking..
I have a rather dumb question I think..
Why didn't Brady Quinn go to Ohio State? Was he offered anything from them?
Just wondering...
This would have been at or around the Tressel take over,...I'm not making excuses at all for either he or Cooper, but IIRC, at that juncture the Buckeyes had a deep stable of QB's -- (COLLEGE QB's) -- I don't even know if they actually talked to him at all. He may have been committed to Notre Dame as early as 2000. I do know he did not go to a parochial high school.
I don't THINK he was offered, but I do not know.
I know that doesn't help much.
The Buckeyes didn't want him because he was a sissy. 
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Practice Squad
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For those who want us to get McNabb or Kolb there was an artilce in todays Plain Dealer Sports section 03/12/2010, that stated the Eagles want a 1st rounder for McNabb and 2 of them for Kolb.  To me, that would be out of the question, no way would I go for that. I'd rather move up in the draft if the oppertunity comes up to get a QB this year. The best chance of that happening would be for the Rams not to be able to trade the pick and decide to not use the pick on a QB. If no other trades are made by the forth pick and Washington takes Bradford/Claussen. Then, we could jump in at the #5 spot ahead of Seattle, trade Rodgers and a 3rd or 4th rounder and take whoever is left ahead of the Seahawks.  We would get our QB, without giving up a lot of picks in the future. This would also give us the rest of this draft and next years (if there is one) to finish the rebuilding process andbe competitive for years to come.  
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Yeah, it's at the end of this article http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/jake_delhommes_decision_might.htmlHere is what it says about Kolb and McNabb Quote:
Extra points: Former Browns safety Brodney Pool signed a one-year deal with the New York Jets, and guard Rex Hadnot signed a three-year deal with the Arizona Cardinals worth $9 million to $12 million, depending on incentives reached, a source said. . . . If the Browns want Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, it will take at least a first-round pick, according to ESPN's Sal Paolantonio. If they want his backup Kevin Kolb, it would take two first-rounders, according to Comcast Sports Net Philadelphia
I know lots of folks think that maybe McNabb is the short term answer here.. and maybe that Kolb is the long term answer.. But dang, that's a lot to give up for either one.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I know lots of folks think that maybe McNabb is the short term answer here.. and maybe that Kolb is the long term answer.. But dang, that's a lot to give up for either one.
I was thinking the same thing. Kolb could turn out to be like Matt Schaub, Scott Mitchell, or someone in the middle. There aren't many players in this league I'd give up 2 #1s for, and Kolb isn't on my list. Manning, Brees, Brady and Rivers would make me think about it, but not Kevin Kolb.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Yeah, it's at the end of this article
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/jake_delhommes_decision_might.html
Here is what it says about Kolb and McNabb
Quote:
Extra points: Former Browns safety Brodney Pool signed a one-year deal with the New York Jets, and guard Rex Hadnot signed a three-year deal with the Arizona Cardinals worth $9 million to $12 million, depending on incentives reached, a source said. . . . If the Browns want Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, it will take at least a first-round pick, according to ESPN's Sal Paolantonio. If they want his backup Kevin Kolb, it would take two first-rounders, according to Comcast Sports Net Philadelphia
I know lots of folks think that maybe McNabb is the short term answer here.. and maybe that Kolb is the long term answer.. But dang, that's a lot to give up for either one.
While I agree the real question is.........Is there any price that is too steep for completely turning around a franchise?
If I knew 100% sure that Kolb could be a top 5 QB in this league and could completely change the face of my franchise I would probably give up 3 first rounders for him.
But that's the million dollar question. Can he be that guy?
I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
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Then, we could jump in at the #5 spot ahead of Seattle, trade Rodgers and a 3rd or 4th rounder and take whoever is left ahead of the Seahawks.
That's just about my worst draft nightmare. I'll be sick if we take a QB in the first round, and trading UP to get one is even worse. The hit-miss ratio on 1st round QB's isn't that much better than 2nd round QB's and the risk/contract is so destructive.
No 1st round QB pleeeeease!!
And if it was up to me - no 2nd or 3rd round QB either unless McCoy and Tebow are there respectively.
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If I knew 100% sure that Kolb could be a top 5 QB in this league and could completely change the face of my franchise I would probably give up 3 first rounders for him.
That's CRAZY talk. Imagine our team if we didnt have Courtney Brown, William Green, Gerrard Warren, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, Kam Wimbley.....oh....wait..... 
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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If I knew 100% sure that Kolb could be a top 5 QB in this league and could completely change the face of my franchise I would probably give up 3 first rounders for him.
But that's the million dollar question. Can he be that guy?
We could say the same thing about a first round QB that we draft, and it would only cost us one pick. As you pretty much said, we just don't know.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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j/c http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-Who-believes-in-Brady-Quinn.htmlBrady Quinn and Browns quarterbacks I’ve been writing online at the Post and talking on NFL Network about why I feel Brady Quinn is not a quality NFL starter and why the Browns ultimately will find another quarterback. But there’s one diehard Quinn fan (not my son) who sends me absurd emails about how he thinks Quinn is the next Dan Marino and how I’m an idiot for not recognizing his talents. There’s no way to change this man’s mind -- or at least make him think he might be wrong. I’m all for loyalty to a player, but this person is over the top (trust me, he’s called me a lot worse than an idiot). He doesn’t lack confidence in Quinn, even though he has never coached or scouted the position professionally. He believes in his heart of hearts that Quinn will start in Cleveland next season. At first, I thought this fan had to be a Quinn relative, but that’s not the case. I understand being loyal, but I don’t understand blind loyalty. Why is it so difficult to see that Quinn is not an NFL starter? The other question is how did Quinn cultivate this blind, obsessive loyalty? The year Quinn was drafted, there was concern around the NFL about his overall accuracy on every level — short, medium and long. In fact, his workout was not very impressive, and the reason he slipped in the first round was because of his lack of accuracy. Quinn finished his college career with a 58-percent completion rate, which improved the last two seasons under Charlie Weis’ tutelage. In college, the completion percentage for quarterbacks should high because of the famed bubble screens that are prevalent since linemen can be downfield on forward passes. So no quality college quarterback should ever be below 65 percent. Once he entered the NFL, the Browns thought they had their guy for the future, but in the short term, Derek Anderson played well and led the Browns to a 10-win non-playoff season. As his career unfolded and the hopes built for Quinn to be the savior, his lack of accuracy, rhythm and decision-making doomed his performances. When given the chance to start, Quinn failed to deliver, and now the Browns are moving on -- probably without him. Now Mike Holmgren has taken over, and he evaluated Quinn coming out of college and in his stint as the Browns starter. To no one’s surprise, Holmgren has started to bring in quarterbacks he feels more comfortable with in his task of rebuilding the Browns. Quinn has been on the trade market for a while — as I reported here and on NFL Network. The Browns are bringing in former Panthers quarterback Jake Delhomme for a visit today and made the move for former Seattle backup Seneca Wallace, clear indications they’re not willing or want to give Quinn the starting job. And they have even admitted privately that if they sign Delhomme, they might just dump Quinn. The Browns quarterback position is in flux and will not be settled until after the draft, where most NFL insiders suspect they’ll draft one — probably very early. But one thing I know for sure is that my email box tomorrow will be filled with comments on the greatness of Brady Quinn.
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Legend
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#gmstrong
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lol, it's GOTTA be Diam 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Diam is alive and kicking.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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certainly not ammo anymore poor lombardi...
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Legend
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While I agree the real question is.........Is there any price that is too steep for completely turning around a franchise?
Yeah, I think so. I believe there is a point you don't go past. But looking a Kolb or McNabb.. are either worth the risk? I don't happen to think so but that's just me....
Quote:
If I knew 100% sure that Kolb could be a top 5 QB in this league and could completely change the face of my franchise I would probably give up 3 first rounders for him.
I probably still wouldn't give up two 1st rounders let alone 3 for him.. I'd turn my attention to getting anyone that falls in the area of 5th to 10th best.. You would still have a damn fine QB.. He wouldn't be the weak link either..
I think it's safe to say that Marino was an outstanding QB in the league for many years.. I would bet that during many of his years, he was easily in the top 5.. It doesn't guarantee a ring... So yeah, there is a price that is too high because there aren't any guarantees on any of them..
Just saying..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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jc
I wish Diam was around.
He was so angry that I posted the "one last parting shot" thread about Brady Quinn blunders before the draft. Then when we drafted him I remember being in the chat room and he was asking me what I thought about him now.
Wonder what he has to say for himself.
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I am with Damanshot on this. Some things have value, others just cost horribly. The number of firsts versus what we can get out of them is too steep a price, but that is me. Our string of picks for QB were poor in hindsight; we did try to address a glaring weakness. I think we have enough picks to bump up, but we will still need a line and some pass catchers. If we can get something for BQ and\or drive down the price, then pull the trigger with MH's blessing. I think he is going with a clean state. As an afterthought, even the fixes don't stay fixed for too long. Pay too much and we criple some other reas need addressed as well. But I trust Holmgren and Co.'s judgment.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Trusting their judgement is where I'm at too,...my problem is, we're not gonna "get" Bradford unless we achieve the # 1 pick, as all indications are, the Rams will take him.
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If I were the Rams, that's what I'd want everyone to think, regardless if it's the truth or not.
As for the article, all it did was summarize the actions of Holmgren.
As to his question of why it's so hard to see that Quinn isn't very good, two REAL factors:
Some fans don't know a good player from a bad one due to either loyalty because he's the "hometown hero" (see: Charlie Frye) or because they don't quite understand everything that goes into evaluating players.
I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone it's easy. It's not. It's damned hard. The toughest part isn't watching the player play, but factoring in the impact of all the factors around the player. That means who coached him in college, the system in college, the truth or fiction behind the numbers he put up in college. Then there's the workouts and the above-mentioned factors in the pro's.
In short as it pertains to Quinn, it's difficult to factor-out the good he did in college and the bad around him in the pro's. When one can accurately put all that in it's place, then there's nothing left but the QB himself. So now it comes down to whether or not teams believe he can overcome the things he hasn't done in college or the pro's and become a starter. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable or an even bet? No, it's not.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All well and good,...but if I weasel myself into the # 1 pick, I'm gonna let you believe I'm taking Bradford too, and then, .....select Suh. He can help the "impact" level of this team a whole lot sooner than Sam will.
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Legend
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lol, it's GOTTA be Diam
Gotta be.. no doubt in my mind
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c Quote:
CLEVELAND -- Browns President Mike Holmgren said that trade talk for Brady Quinn is "a little premature," but he indicated that Quinn's future with the club depends on acquiring another quarterback.
Joshua Gunter, The Plain DealerMike Holmgren"It all depends on what else we can do," Holmgren told The Plain Dealer on Friday. "We are continuing to look for and evaluate quarterbacks."
Holmgren said that he has not closed the door on signing free agent Jake Delhomme, who left the Browns without a contract to visit the New Orleans Saints. Delhomme, 35, is undecided about whether he wants to compete for the Browns' starting job or finish his career as Drew Brees' backup with his hometown team.
"Delhomme is an ongoing discussion ... he still is on radar," Holmgren said. "But I did tell this to Jake: while you're debating what you want to do, I've got to keep going. We're not just sitting on our hands waiting for something to happen.
"I don't want to be left standing at the altar."
Holmgren insisted he did not -- and would not -- promise Delhomme a starting job.
"I told him when I met with him that we'll never say that to a free agent guy, tell him, 'You're the starter,'" Holmgren said. "I think if you promise guys those things, and then something happens (to change that), then you have a disgruntled player. We're not going to do that.
"I think if we're competing with New Orleans, I think it's safe to say he will not be the starter in New Orleans. I think he certainly has the potential to be the starter here."
Although the Browns have signed three free agents -- offensive tackle Tony Pashos, linebacker Scott Fujita and tight end Ben Watson -- reshaping the quarterback roster continues to be the central focus of the club.
So far, the Browns traded a conditional seventh-round pick in 2011 for Seattle backup Seneca Wallace and then parted ways the next day with Derek Anderson.
Holmgren said another trade is possible -- if Delhomme isn't signed -- and "anything we do in free agency does not preclude drafting one. I'm kind of keeping all the avenues open."
All of which puts Quinn's roster status on hold. Quinn has not been heard from since the 2009 season ended. Sources have told The Plain Dealer that he would welcome a trade if he's not going to be given a chance to start after three years with the Browns.
Holmgren does not think Quinn's psyche has been damaged by all the quarterback chatter and the lack of endorsement shown the 2009 opening game starter.
"This is the big boy's league," Holmgren said. "You have to be tough mentally to play in this league period and particularly at quarterback. I suspect Brady's a really tough competitor. I don't think any of this stuff bothers him."
In commenting on Anderson, Holmgren cited his "sizable contract," but indicated he wouldn't be in the team's plans regardless.
"I think a fresh start (was needed) for everybody. No one's at fault here. He had a sizable contract, that was true. I think this just works out better for him," Holmgren said.
Holmgren sounded as if he was aware the trade for Wallace hasn't knocked anybody's socks off when he talked up the seven-year backup to Matt Hasselbeck.
"It's no secret I've always enjoyed Seneca," he said. "He's a better player than people think he is. He really can throw the ball. People had the tendency to put him in a box.
"He's a pretty good player at quarterback and he can do some other things. I think he had a little bit of a bum rap at times in Seattle. We had a lot of guys injured when he had to play. He'd do anything (for me). I told him there will be competition for the position. It's open. He's excited about coming."
Reminded that he previously has stated he was against holding an "open competition" at quarterback, Holmgren said there is a difference in what he is trying to do.
"The difference is you set up the criteria and how you're going to judge, but then you make a decision," he said. "You don't go into the season alternating quarterbacks."
No matter the final field, Holmgren said he hoped that a starter would be named some time before training camp.
"But I'm going to kind of set the table, and then it's really Coach (Eric) Mangini's call," he said.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/mike_holmgren_says_brady_quinn.html
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Wow,...thanks so much for posting that. Very interesting,....
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Holmgren has a way of being very open yet close to the vest as well. Quite refreshing not to hear lie after lie or total bull crap coming from the Browns.
I think any reasonable person can read between the lines, if the Browns get another QB to give Wallace a fight, Quinn is gone.
you had a good run Hank.
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Every single time Holmgren opens his mouth,, Something GOOD comes out and I become more and more excited that he is indeed the right guy to be at the top of this organization.
I continue to be impressed with this man.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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I don't come around here much any more. I check in from time to time to see if I still recognize some of the names posting and what items are on the hearts and minds of fellow Browns fans.
It is a different day, but the same song.
I did not like the Browns drafting Quinn. I did not like what they had to give up to move up and get him.
I was okay with the drafting of Charlie Frye. He was a 3rd round pick. If it worked out, great. If he turned out to be a bum, it wasn't huge deal. I wasn't a big fan of Luke McCown. But, he was drafted at the right spot.
Since 1999, the Browns have done a very poor job in the first round. Joe Thomas is the only "stud" that jumps out to me. (Even then, there were folks on this board begging for Calvin Johnson over Thomas.)
I really, truly hope the Browns do not pick a QB in the first round this year. I am so ridiculously tired of the parade of QBs that has come through since 1999.
I just that the Browns pick a course and stay on it. The largest problem the Browns have faced since 1999 is that we are hitting the reset button almost every year whether it be GM, HC, OC, DC, or QB. The organization is constantly changing and can never grow.
Good luck to Brady... wherever he lands.
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Gee Merth,,, Thanks for sharing...  Did ya miss me?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It doesn't matter what the Browns do. The fans will always be disappointed. The team as a whole has not wanted to win in a long time. They give up too easily. I have been a Browns fan for 40 years. The most excited I got was when Brian Sipe was playing.
flight of fantasy
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Quote:
The team as a whole has not wanted to win in a long time.
I don't believe that.. if I did, I'd have to stop watching them....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quinn.. It's time to step your game up baby boy... Shut the haters up, and go get YOUR team some wins.
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Quinn.. It's time to step your game up baby boy... Shut the haters up, and go get YOUR team some wins.
Unless he gets an arm transplant, that's just not going to happen.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quinn.. It's time to step your game up baby boy... Shut the haters up, and go get YOUR team some wins.
Which team would that be again?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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It will be the team we trade him to. Quinn will come back to burn us one day.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
It will be the team we trade him to. Quinn will come back to burn us one day.
Why? What has he done to make you believe that?
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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It isn't what he's done...it's what he hasn't had the chance to do. I think the Browns screwed him around in a big way and I think once he gets to settle in and relax a little he'll be a decent QB.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
It isn't what he's done...it's what he hasn't had the chance to do. I think the Browns screwed him around in a big way and I think once he gets to settle in and relax a little he'll be a decent QB.
Well soon enough if we are so lucky, he will get his chance to be a decent starter somewhere else. With his noodle arm and accuracy it might just end up being on another team in Cleveland. He didn't get screwed around..This is now the third Coach or talent evaluator he has had in Cleveland that sees nothing to believe he is worth starting. He was a massive mistake from day 1 and it is time to stop drinking the Kool Aid and move on. If the draft, his play, and the evaluators we have don't tell you something..I don't know what to say.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
Quote:
It will be the team we trade him to. Quinn will come back to burn us one day.
Just like Couch and Frye did ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brady Quinn being offered for
trade
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