Quote: It isn't what he's done...it's what he hasn't had the chance to do. I think the Browns screwed him around in a big way and I think once he gets to settle in and relax a little he'll be a decent QB.
I gotta ask..................Just what did the Browns do to "screw him around?"
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Based on the things Mangini said at that time, the things about Quinn not going downfield (a nice way of saying he wasn't following through with what he was told to execute), showed some justification for pulling him.
I'd also note that if they were willing to yank him that early, they were afraid he didn't have it to begin with, which is to say he hadn't shown them enough in practices to warrant any confidence.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Alot around here will jump with joy when BQ is shipped out. That joy is mis-placed. The failure that is/was Brady Quinn has set the organization back years. There is no way we can get back a first and second rounder as compensation in a trade. Sad......
My thought exactly ! ....My question now is....Assuming Quinn is moved & Delhomme at 35 is our Starter for at least the next 2 seasons along with Wallace as his backup....Does that forshadow either a continued reliance on Quality FA QBs going forward or another eventually Rookie project at QB just as our Browns begin to get the other pieces of the puzzle in place to be a Winner ?....Continually upgrading/adding Quality Veterans QBs(Assuming Delhomme only plays 2 seasons here) over the next says 4 seasons IMO is the only way to make sure that our team gels at the same time & maintains that improvement....= IMHO that in the out years we won't be able to afford to break in another Rookie and remain competitive year in and year out....
Quote: Quinn.. It's time to step your game up baby boy... Shut the haters up, and go get YOUR team some wins.
What team will it be?? It won't be the Browns.
Holmgren knows the fans were divided about the qb in Cleveland. As long as one half of that two headed monster remains, the monster remains be it with a new second head.
Nope....Holmgren is killing that beast and starting fresh.
As Holmgren said in one of his PC's...the team is going to identify the starter early in the process and that is the direction they will go.
As long as Quinn remains, he is going to have his legion of minions who won't be happy until he gets his 5 years of starts.
He's done in Cleveland.
I wish him well wherever he ends up.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Do you really think with the fans in Cleveland, myself included, that the first second the starter (be it Dillhole or Freedom) looks like crap we won't be calling for their backup? I give it to maybe, if their lucky, until the 3rd game of the season before the fans are pressuring for the backup. Then about the 7th game before we are clamoring for the other guy again. Then in the 8th game the original starter, who was benched in game 3 and reinserted game 7, will be placed on IR for the remainder of the year.
We are in Cleveland you know - Mike Holmgren or no Mike Holmgren.
Quote: Alot around here will jump with joy when BQ is shipped out. That joy is mis-placed. The failure that is/was Brady Quinn has set the organization back years. There is no way we can get back a first and second rounder as compensation in a trade. Sad......
I could be wrong here, but the joy some demostrate really doesn't have anything to do with Quinn on a personal level. His performance on the other hand, has left so many of us stretching our heads.
Also, When folks think about what's happened, I get the sense that many of them would have rathered have him succeed..
As for how far this set the organization back,, That depends on a bunch of other factors...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Randy Lerner hired Mike Holmgren to straighten out the mess that this team had become. He hired him to hire good people, and to evaluate every position on the team. People talked about how much Holmgren knows about QBs and offense.
Once he ships out (or is reported to be in the process of doing so) a favored QB though, he obviously becomes an idiot.
The NFL is a show me league. It is a results league. Quinn has had 3 years to show something in practice, and in limited opportunities on the field. What has he shown? He has shown a timid nature .... limited accuracy .... limited arm strength ....... and a lack of capability once the ball is snapped. he looks the part of an NFL QB right until that fateful second when the ball is snapped ... then .... well, then it all falls apart.
As far as Delhiomme replacing Quinn and Anderson ... and all of the talk about his arm and so on ....
Last season our offense averaged 128 yards/game. Per game! We had a whopping passing TD total of 11. (Beating only the amazing QB triumvirate in Oakland) We had 18 INT in addition to the TD passes.
If a new guy comes in and says "We need to dump the 2 guys who played QB here last year" .... how the hell can anyone argue with that conclusion?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If a new guy comes in and says "We need to dump the 2 guys who played QB here last year" .... how the hell can anyone argue with that conclusion?
It's the emotional investment some fans have in particular players and when the people charged with leading this team don't walk in lock-step with that particular fans player of choice, well the leader of the team must be an idiot. Some fans, and to be fair I don't limit that to just Cleveland fans, think they know so much more than someone like Holmgren. I don't think it's as sad as I think it's laughable.
at what point do you trade or decide to keep Quinn? Do you let him go if a team offers a 4th? A 5th? A case of Old Milwaukee? Is getting rid of him just to get rid of him wise?
players come and players go. My emotional investment is the Browns. It's sad when a player that represents the investment of two high draft picks fails. If Quinn would have been a 5th round pick, big deal.
My instincts tell me that Quinn is gone .... and any talk to the contrary is designed to drive up his value as much as possible.
I would suspect that he's traded by (or on) draft day.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
at what point do you trade or decide to keep Quinn? Do you let him go if a team offers a 4th? A 5th? A case of Old Milwaukee? Is getting rid of him just to get rid of him wise?
it's wise...the two headed moster of last year has to die.
As was said, too much emotional investment for some to let the new set up work as long as Quinn was on the bench....both DA and Quinn need to go in order for us to move forward....other players on the team also have a emotional investment. Every account said the team was at least somewhat split on who they preferred. DA may have even had the edge.
As to what we get for Quinn..who knows....I suspect it won't be much straight up.....maybe a 6th rounder....teams know we don't want to keep him and he isn't that good. That isn't a recipe for getting very much.
Quinn is more than likely going to be a toss in on a larger deal....but that is just my guess....no matter what we get, we are going to be a better football team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: If a new guy comes in and says "We need to dump the 2 guys who played QB here last year" .... how the hell can anyone argue with that conclusion?
It's almost impossible to argue. What would make it more acceptable is the drafting of someone that Holmgren feels he can get behind... there are a host of possible names out there so I won't even guess..
I've kinda thought that maybe Quinn wasn't given a fair shot.. Having only started what, a dozen games. But the truth is, he didn't exactly inspire confidence in Camp or Preseason during the so called QB Competition.
What's a coach to do.. He put the job out there and said,, go fight for it. for three years, all Quinn had to do is demonstrate that he WAS the man.. he didn't.
As far as I"m concerned, this is all on him....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: it is official that Brady will follow Derek out of Town
The Rams are enamored with Suh so they decide to sign Derek Anderson. Since it is official that Brady will follow Derek out of town, Brady gets traded to St Louis for a framed photo of the Vince Lombardi Trophy. St Louis then decides to hold an open competition between the two that lasts until the first game. Bradford then slips to the Browns and then...... i wake up.
If no one offers anything significant for Quinn I say we keep him. He's only due to make $700,000 unless he takes 70% of the snaps. And if he does take 70% of the snaps it means he has either put things together or we have had a few injuries.
$700,000 is really nothing for a backup QB.
I wouldn't be surprised if Manholmkert ships him out just to get him out of people's minds.
That isn't the point and you know it. Hell, I've seen highlight videos on our new QBs the past few days. Where are the low-light videos? Let's see some of those on all the QBs.
EVERY NFL qb should be able to complete and make good passes. If they can't, they wouldn't be in the NFL, right? These videos, no matter which QB you like, don't mean squat in the big picture.
I believe the point of the Quinn video was just to show some of you saying he CAN'T throw long that he indeed can. Doesn't matter what team he was playing -- if it did, DA would have NEVER gone to the Pro Bowl (and shouldn't have anyway).
March 13, 2010 Source: Panthers not pursuing Quinn
Though there has been speculation that Carolina might be interested in acquiring Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn, the Panthers so far have shown no interest, according to a league source.
The Browns are expected to try to trade Quinn now that former Carolina starter Jake Delhomme has signed, joining fellow newcomer Seneca Wallace, who was obtained from Seattle in a trade last week.
The Browns' quarterback position in being overhauled under new team president Mike Holmgren. Already, Derek Anderson was released.
Quinn, a 2007 first-round pick, has some natural connections with the Panthers. Quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer coached him his rookie year in Cleveland. Also, Carolina head coach John Fox is close friends with Quinn's former college coach at Notre Dame, Charlie Weis.
The fact that the Panthers haven't pursued Quinn likely means the team either is focusing on drafting a quarterback to backup and compete with Matt Moore, or that there's at least one veteran they prefer more for that role.
Of course, there's also the matter of Quinn's hefty contract, which any team that trades for him would inherit. If the Browns can't pull off a trade have to release Quinn, he'll have to sign a new contract and thus could draw suitors who currently aren't interested.
Quote: If no one offers anything significant for Quinn I say we keep him. He's only due to make $700,000 unless he takes 70% of the snaps. And if he does take 70% of the snaps it means he has either put things together or we have had a few injuries.
$700,000 is really nothing for a backup QB.
I wouldn't be surprised if Manholmkert ships him out just to get him out of people's minds.
..and it could just come down to that alone but with his contract, keeping him around another year sitting on the bench may actually increase his worth to other teams.
Here is what I believe on this rumor/trade news of Quinn. 1) MH says he likes two years(32 games) of film to evaluate a QB and Quipped what has Quinn had 12? So in his own words how can he evaluate Quinn. 2) last year was a train wreck and the head Coach had ZERO confidence in Quinn and only was forced when a 1-10 record, horrid play by Anderson, and Quinn putting his house up for sale forced the stubborn coach to play Quinn. 3) Quinn played well vs San Diego and Detroit in losses and the offense came alive. 4) Then the offense went back to the Tudor Electric football playbook and there was little in the passing game and quinn looked ordinary again, and this was not all on Quinn. 5) So we added the journeyman Seneca Wallace, dumped the horrid Anderson and I am ok with that. We sign jake delhomme and that Give Holmgren an opportunity to TRADE QUINN IF. 6) If we get proper compensation. MH has went on record to say( and I think it was a back hand slap at Kokini /Mangini three beans for a cow trades) you don't GIVE AWAY talent from the past regime when building a new team. He will NOT give away Quinn. 7) If MH gives away Quinn( a #3 or lower pick) to say a KC and Quinn thrives Both Mangini( who does not like Quinn) and Holgren have lost huge credibility with fans who want Quinn to be given a fair chance. 8) we have signed a solid Te, a solid RT replacing horrid signees of Mangini. We are replacing the Tudor electric Football playbook and are Instructing Daboll something a wee bit more creative, and a perfict fit for Quinn's talents. The jalopy Jamal lewis is gone and the running game looks to prove the last four games were an exciting preview.
In conclusion I hope we keep Quinn. The ceiling on the talents of Jake Delhomme is lowering, and On Seneca Wallace he is as good as he will ever but Quinn has had to deal with inept offensive coaching since he has come to Cleveland. I would love to see what a real offense with some real talent around Quinn to see what he can do. I still believe this kid has shown glimpses he can be a special player. i would Hate we gave him away for him to showcase those talents in another city.
Quote: If no one offers anything significant for Quinn I say we keep him. He's only due to make $700,000 unless he takes 70% of the snaps. And if he does take 70% of the snaps it means he has either put things together or we have had a few injuries.
$700,000 is really nothing for a backup QB.
I wouldn't be surprised if Manholmkert ships him out just to get him out of people's minds.
It's not that simple.
It's not just about what Quinn hasn't done as our QB, it's also about what he represents sitting there on the bench. Simply put, as long as he's on this team, he no longer represents the future, he's a distraction.
He'll be gone. One way or another, Quinn is outa here.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
That isn't the point and you know it. Hell, I've seen highlight videos on our new QBs the past few days. Where are the low-light videos? Let's see some of those on all the QBs.
EVERY NFL qb should be able to complete and make good passes. If they can't, they wouldn't be in the NFL, right? These videos, no matter which QB you like, don't mean squat in the big picture.
I believe the point of the Quinn video was just to show some of you saying he CAN'T throw long that he indeed can. Doesn't matter what team he was playing -- if it did, DA would have NEVER gone to the Pro Bowl (and shouldn't have anyway).
So it doesn't matter who he did it against, but it should have mattered for another QB?
The only thing that video shows me is that Quinn can hit a WR if he is wide open and has a 5 yard space on all sides.
Quinn can throw long, he just can't do it with consistency. Kinda like his short and medium throws, no consistency on where he is going to put it, it's all over the place.
Quinn was horribly inaccurate from 10-30 yards. In case you want to know, his stats from that range are a 50 % completion%, 1 TD and 4 INTS for 609 yards. He had 136 attempts and 68 of them were completed.
Until he improves from that vital range, he's going to be bad. He has very little accuracy on his medium throws, which is why he dropped and why teams got lukewarm on him.
There are a couple of problems with your theory ....
Teams evaluate players on a daily basis ... even if they aren't starters. They look at leadership positions for leadership on the practice field as much as how the player throws a 10 yard out pattern. For whatever reason, the Browns, in 2 different regimes, did not feel that Quinn stood out head and shoulders above Anderson.
There are also certain aspects of QB play that do not depend on other players to evaluate. If the receiver, for example, is on the right spot at the right time .... is the ball also there in the right spot at the right time. This was a point that Mangini brought up numerous times last year with regards to Braylon Edwards, but also regarding how other receivers had improved that aspect of the game. A coach can look at tape to see if the ball is going where it should, when it should, and whether or not thereceiver was where he was supposed to be, when he was supposed to be there. The coach can then look at how accurate the passes were. This was important in last year's offense, but is vital in the WCO. Passes have to be precise. Did the QB from last year show this precision in his throws?
Next, the coach can look at whether or not the QB made appropriate decisions with the football. Did he throw to player "A" while covered when player "B" was wide open? Did he show a penchant for throwing certrain types of passes no matter the situation on th field? Did he put the ball where it needed to go in 3rd down situations? Was the QB patient with his progressions? This is also extremely important with the WCO.
If a QB had a hard time picking up last year's offense, how will they do with a more complex WCO? If a QB had trouble with NFL windows last year, how will they do in a quick hit, microscopic window, precision throws often required in the WCO?
I think it oiften takes "3 years" to evaluate a QB to see if he'll mature and rein his natural attacking nature in. I don't see that nature in Quinn to start with .... so I have to wonder how he learns to become more aggressive withthe ball? If I wonder that as a living room observer, I would have to bet that guys who do this for a living at least have the thoughts pass through their minds.
Oh, and as far as Detroit and San Diego .... remember that the offense "came alive" the year before as well against tthe then #1 defense in the NFL, the New York Giants .... in prime time no less. There was no carry over, and no residual effect regarding the passing game in either case.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Quinn was horribly inaccurate from 10-30 yards. In case you want to know, his stats from that range are a 50 % completion%, 1 TD and 4 INTS for 609 yards. He had 136 attempts and 68 of them were completed.
Not sure where you're getting your stats, but out of curiosity, what were those same number for Drew Brees in 2002 and 2003?
Quote: If no one offers anything significant for Quinn I say we keep him. He's only due to make $700,000 unless he takes 70% of the snaps. And if he does take 70% of the snaps it means he has either put things together or we have had a few injuries.
$700,000 is really nothing for a backup QB.
I wouldn't be surprised if Manholmkert ships him out just to get him out of people's minds.
..and it could just come down to that alone but with his contract, keeping him around another year sitting on the bench may actually increase his worth to other teams.
The problem is the true believers will keep calling for him no matter what. I agree with Peen, he's gotta go.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
Quote: There are also certain aspects of QB play that do not depend on other players to evaluate.
nice point, ytown. i'm surprised this wasn't brought up already. for some reason, people seem to forget how ineffective quinn was as a "leader" last year on the sidelines as well. all the clips showing the sidelines, players were rolling their eyes, ignoring quinn, and walking from him as he's talking to them. we also knew that some players preferred DA to quinn and some of the coaching staff were rooting for DA also.
these are small points because, i'd hope professionalism takes over to some degree (as much as rich, big kids can be) but when you take that into consideration in addition to how little mangini had confidence in him last season and MH seeming to agree, it does add up.
Quote: Couch's arm was jelly and had big time surgery to repair it, something that he never came back from. Not really a fair comparison.
Charlie Frye just sucked.
He's not comparing the QB's. He's simply stating the obvious, which is that when a player like Quinn is bounced, those who are pro-player-X fear that player will come back and make us pay for our lack of faith.
And then he notes how Couch and Frye couldn't quite do it.
Unlike any head shot-caller that's come here in decades, Holmgren has a long track-record of knowing what he's doing. People need to keep that in mind.
If Phil Savage says he likes or doesn't like a QB, color me skeptical.
If Holmgren says he likes or doesn't like a QB, that's a horse of a different color.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: If Holmgren says he likes or doesn't like a QB, that's a horse of a different color.
True enough.
Except the guy Holmgren just picked as our guy throws INTs like I eat donuts.....2 and 3 at a time.
And other than a few guys that have always hated Quinn and guys that always side with whatever any one of our FO guys does everyone in the free world thinks this is a bad decision. Just spend a few minutes on that Interweb thing.......
This may turn out to be a great decision. I truly hope so. But right now it just smells funny.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
Quote: I wouldn't be surprised if Manholmkert ships him out just to get him out of people's minds.
Quote: It's not just about what Quinn hasn't done as our QB, it's also about what he represents sitting there on the bench. Simply put, as long as he's on this team, he no longer represents the future, he's a distraction.
He'll be gone. One way or another, Quinn is outa here.
Well, that's part of what you said, but it's kinda contradictory.
Here's what you said first:
Quote: If no one offers anything significant for Quinn I say we keep him. He's only due to make $700,000 unless he takes 70% of the snaps. And if he does take 70% of the snaps it means he has either put things together or we have had a few injuries.
$700,000 is really nothing for a backup QB.
That looks like you're making your case for why he should be kept. I just elaborated on it.
You stated why you'd want to keep him, then stated Holmgren may not just to get rid of him. All I did was expound on why your points in favor of keeping him probably aren't viable enough.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
....My question now is....Assuming Quinn is moved & Delhomme at 35 is our Starter for at least the next 2 seasons along with Wallace as his backup....Does that forshadow either a continued reliance on Quality FA QBs going forward or another eventually Rookie project at QB just as our Browns begin to get the other pieces of the puzzle in place to be a Winner ?....Continually upgrading/adding Quality Veterans QBs(Assuming Delhomme only plays 2 seasons here) over the next says 4 seasons IMO is the only way to make sure that our team gels at the same time & maintains that improvement....= IMHO that in the out years we won't be able to afford to break in another Rookie and remain competitive year in and year out....![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg)
