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OverToad #472720 03/20/10 02:44 PM
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Plausible brings a hint of belief,....possible, I understand.

Do you think this kid fits any of the wickets Holmgren would have for a franchise QB ? Maybe,...I do not know.

I know I would not be too happy with Berry on the board,.....But,....mine is not the concern.

OverToad #472721 03/20/10 02:47 PM
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While yes QB is a position of need, I just can't see taking Clausen that high this year. Especially by Charles Davis' prediction of having Berry there. In my mind, projecting Berry out as a probowler is much easier than feeling that way about Clausen. We can't afford to miss this year in the first round. QBs are too much of a crapshoot. Berry is a day one starter and his ceiling is off the charts.


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Damanshot #472722 03/20/10 04:00 PM
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I think bottom line is that we are desperate for a young great franchise QB to lead us out of the black hole we've been in for most of the past 10 years since we came back to the league. To get that guy you have to draft him in the first round. There are some guys who weren't first round picks that are that good, but they weren't drafted with the expectation of being that guy pretty much. Clausen showed some things at Notre Dame that makes me and others think he can be a great pro QB. Of course there are major questions with like the fact that he came from the same system that Quinn came from and we all know about Quinn sucking, and he does have some personality issues. You gotta take chances to get a great QB and this is a prime year to take a chance on a guy if he's available IMO. Better chance that Clausen succeeds in the NFL than Tebow, McCoy or anyone else this year except Bradford.


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keylime_5 #472723 03/20/10 04:04 PM
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Sorry, I'm just scared anymore of any more prima donnas.

I'm almost screaming now for a LeFevour,..etc. If we're gonna -- and every indication is that we are -- go that way.

If we do pick Jimmy, then I get behind him 100%, just like I did Quinn.

All I can do.

OoooRahJoice #472724 03/20/10 04:16 PM
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Yeah, I'm not a big Clausen fan either. It's a scary thing taking a QB that high b/c there are so few guys who are close to sure things. With the spread offenses today it's even scarier. I'm at the point where I just want a QB and I don't care who he is as long as he succeeds.


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PortlandDawg #472725 03/22/10 12:41 PM
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It will be a miracle if Clausen is even there at #7 and if he is...Mh and Heckert better pull the trigger...it would be like Big Ben falling in the Steelers laps a few years ago.

look I know Berry is an above average safety, but he is NOT worth a #7 overall

the guy isn't half the safety Sean Taylor was coming out of the U, and he is not as good as Ed Reed was

I do not want to draft a safety at 7...I see the guy as another Thane Gash...decent player, but not worth #7 overall

we need a franchise QB...if Clausen falls to us...we better take him...it will be a stretch if he gets past Washington or the Rams however

if the Browns intend to go D with the first pick, Suh will be gone then you go after Mccoy

the DL McCoy is the 2nd best Defensive player in this entire draft behind Suh..if Clausen, Bradford, and Suh are gone...the pick has to be McCoy...McCoy is a better DL then Berry is a S

McCoy can come in and contribute NOW delivering sacks and TFL and boost our anemic pass rush and run defense....

its possible that Taylor Mays could be there in the 2nd round and he is a pretty good safety out of USC..

doesn't McCoy + Mayes sound pretty good if Clausen isn't there?

does to me...

Knight_Of_Brown #472726 03/22/10 12:47 PM
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McCoy + Mays sounds good if Clausen is there

Knight_Of_Brown #472727 03/22/10 12:50 PM
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Does McCoy even fit in the 3-4 defense?

cfrs15 #472728 03/22/10 01:33 PM
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That was good for a laugh -- on me,...I thought you meant Colt,...

Knight_Of_Brown #472729 03/22/10 03:51 PM
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Quote:

doesn't McCoy + Mayes sound pretty good if Clausen isn't there?




It sounds plenty good even if (especially if?) Clausen IS there.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Knight_Of_Brown #472730 03/22/10 03:54 PM
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Quote:

It will be a miracle if Clausen is even there at #7 and if he is...Mh and Heckert better pull the trigger...it would be like Big Ben falling in the Steelers laps a few years ago.

look I know Berry is an above average safety, but he is NOT worth a #7 overall

the guy isn't half the safety Sean Taylor was coming out of the U, and he is not as good as Ed Reed was

I do not want to draft a safety at 7...I see the guy as another Thane Gash...decent player, but not worth #7 overall

we need a franchise QB...if Clausen falls to us...we better take him...it will be a stretch if he gets past Washington or the Rams however





If we draft Clausen over berry I will completely flip out. Also their's no way Mccoy slips to the #7 pick.

Knight_Of_Brown #472731 03/22/10 03:55 PM
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Quote:

It will be a miracle if Clausen is even there at #7 and if he is.

we need a franchise QB...if Clausen falls to us...we better take him..




I don't like Clausen either

The consensus is they want a quarterback! Let me look at a few.
Claussen, 60 career touchdowns, 3 years, ... year 2 , 25 tds and 17 ints

year 1, .. 7 tds and 6 ints, year 3 , 28 tds and 4 ints

So He plays at Notre Dame whose opponents are WEAK! and he has one good year, My diagnosis, He is another Brady Quinn, He stinks, He is less than Troy Smith! I don't like the pick

" Claussen is at best the 4th best quarterback behind Bradford! behind Colt McCoy, behind Tebow! and you can quote me on that.
even 2 years from now."

It will be a Super Miracle if Clausen is gone in the top 6, but AL Davis took the worst WR last year, so anythings possible.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
keylime_5 #472732 03/22/10 04:23 PM
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Quote:

To get that guy you have to draft him in the first round.




Brees was a 2nd rounder (one SB Win)
Brady was a 6th rounder (3 SB wins, 4 appearances)
Hassleback was a 6th rounder (one SB appearances)
Favre was a 2nd rounder (1 SB win 2 appearances)
Joe Montana was a 3rd Rounder (4 SB wins)
Kurt Warner wasn't drafted (1 SB win, 3 Appearances)
Jeff Hostetler 3rd Rounder (1 SB win)

I could go on and on but you already acknowledged that there were some lower round picks that were solid..

My point is, will we get the next great one in a lower round? I'd never say we MUST draft a QB in the first round.. So much depends on the player, who's coaching him, who's around him on the field,,,

Would Troy Aikman have been nearly as effective without the line he had and without Mike Irvin and Emmit Smith? Probably not..

Just saying.. while the QB is the most important guy on the team,, without support, he'll lanquish like Archie Manning did in NO....


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Quote:

McCoy + Mays sounds good if Clausen is there




If we could somehow pull off a G. McCoy + Mays draft, I would go dancing in the streets, despite the fact that Mays cannot cover anyone.


you had a good run Hank.
cfrs15 #472734 03/22/10 04:32 PM
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It depends on who you ask, but I say no. But that's irrelevant because McCoy will not drop past Tampa at 3.

KOB: I'm willing to make a bet that Clausen is there at 7, and that we pass on him. And I would be beyond furious if we took Clausen over Berry. Not just because I love Berry, but because I have Clausen graded as a 2nd rounder.

DeepThreat #472735 03/22/10 04:36 PM
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Going off of Holmgren's comments alone we should all assume that if Clausen is there in the 2nd round we won't be taking him.

DeepThreat #472736 03/22/10 04:40 PM
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Quote:

It depends on who you ask, but I say no. But that's irrelevant because McCoy will not drop past Tampa at 3.




Wes, I know you are not a big fan of Okung. There is a scenario where McCoy falls past three and that would involve the Lions at #2.

With the signing of Vanden Bosch and the trade for Williams, it is possible that the Lions take Okung at #2. Detroit could then either move Backus to LG or release him. Detroit is overpaying Backus for the play they are getting out of him. They can either continue to overpay him or release him. It is well documented that not having a capable LT can ruin a QB prospect. They passed on Michael Oher last year and even Ebon Britton in the second round (when they opted for secondary help.) It is time to grab the best tackle prospect in the draft.

That would allow the Bucs to draft either Suh or McCoy.

Damanshot #472737 03/22/10 04:41 PM
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Quote:


Brees was a 2nd rounder (one SB Win)
Brady was a 6th rounder (3 SB wins, 4 appearances)
Hassleback was a 6th rounder (one SB appearances)
Favre was a 2nd rounder (1 SB win 2 appearances)
Joe Montana was a 3rd Rounder (4 SB wins)
Kurt Warner wasn't drafted (1 SB win, 3 Appearances)
Jeff Hostetler 3rd Rounder (1 SB win)





I remember this article from a while ago about the success of 2/3rd round QB picks of the past 20 years. I found it fairly suprising.

Quote:

As you can see there were a total of 31 quarterbacks taken in either the second or third round from 1992-2006. There were some who started quite a few games and had varying degrees of success (i.e. Kordell Stewart, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese) while others have managed to bounce around the league for a long time (i.e. Todd Collins, Charlie Batch, Josh McCown) but overall the group leaves a lot to be desired. In fact, Drew Brees is the only one who developed into a great quarterback for the team that drafted him and he was the 32nd overall pick, which would be a first rounder today. Also, Brees was so disappointing his first few years that the Chargers moved on and used a Top 5 on Philip Rivers before he hit his stride.

That is 1 out of 31, which equates to about a 3% success rate.




web page

I think its an intersting read none the less and would reccomend giving it a look.


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Davy #472738 03/22/10 04:43 PM
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If either of the big DT's fell to us I would just put our pick up for auction to the highest bidder. Someone will trade up to get one of those guys.

I know they are both great prospects but it isn't even clear if either can play in the 3-4 defense.

cfrs15 #472739 03/22/10 04:48 PM
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There is talk from Daniel Jeremiah (former Browns/Ravens scout) that Okung to the Lions would be the wrong move. But if you pass on Okung you are looking at the next tier of tackles which are all lacking (Campbell, Saffold, Black).

Davy #472740 03/22/10 04:49 PM
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There are some people saying Okung to the Lions right now. I think it's insane. They showed last year that they will take the BPA, and they have just as huge of need at DT as they do at LT. I am 99.9% sure the Lions will take Suh or McCoy. Don't forget that their head coach is Jim Schwartz who loved having Albert Haynesworth in Tennessee. They would be stupid not to take one of the DT's, and from what I have heard, they will.

DeepThreat #472741 03/22/10 04:50 PM
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Also, I do like Okung. I just don't like him at RT, nor do I think that he will be an elite LT. I see him as being like D'Brickishaw Ferguson. He's a very good pass blocker, but he gets bullrushed and isn't a dominant run blocker.

Damanshot #472742 03/28/10 01:49 PM
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Notre Dame's Clausen set to meet with five teams in top 10 of draft
By Steve Wyche | NFL.com
Senior Writer

Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen has interviews set up with at least five teams picking at the front of the NFL draft, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Clausen will meet with the Rams (No. 1), Redskins (4), Browns (7), Bills (9) and Jaguars (10).

Of those teams, Jacksonville could be the most surprising, although it did flirt with the idea of using its first-round pick on a quarterback last season before opting to stay put and select offensive tackle Eugene Monroe.

Clausen is still rehabilitating from foot surgery in January, but he is expected to participate at his own personal pro day on April 9 at Notre Dame.

Most analysts, including NFL Network's Mike Mayock and NFL.com's Bucky Brooks, have Clausen listed as the second-best quarterback prospect in the draft to Oklahoma's Sam Bradford.

While he didn't work out, Clausen recently attended Notre Dame's pro day to cheer on his teammates. He told NFL.com that he just started running earlier this week and was encouraged by his recovery from surgery.

One factor helping Clausen is that he is the only quarterback of the top prospects at the position with extensive experience running a pro-style offense. The rest all worked out of the spread.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d...mp;confirm=true

DeisleDawg #472743 03/28/10 09:25 PM
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I really hope the Browns can solidify the OL before we start again with young QBs.

To my eye Pashoes and Womack look like guards that can fill in at RT not full time starting RTs. I have no idea if St Clair can play guard but I know he can't play tackle.

Lets draft a RT this year so he'd be ready when we have to play an inexperienced QB.

If we're ever going to develop a decent QB we're going to have provide a situation where it's not going to take a miracle for the kid to succeed.

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http://walterfootball.com/jimmyclausenhate.php


To be perfectly honest, I don't expect to convince anyone. At this point, if you still aren't a Jimmy Clausen fan, you just have some irrational hatred either for him personally or for Notre Dame, because there is no logical reason not to have him as a top-10 player in the 2010 NFL Draft and easily the most sure-fire quarterback in the class. Really, I just want one post to point to that says "You're stupid" whenever I read the same, tired, dumb arguments for why Clausen doesn't deserve a first-round grade.

Let's begin with the situation he was in during his college years. He comes from a pro-style offense, which gives him some big points right off the bat. He was coached by Charlie Weis, who is easily one of the most highly respected quarterback coaches and offensive minds in the NFL, let alone college.

Let's discuss Clausen's running game, or lack thereof. Consider the following facts:

# Clausen never shared a backfield with a 1,000-yard rusher.

# No running back eclipsed 700 rushing yards while Clausen was at Notre Dame.

# No running back had a run longer than 27 yards during Clausen's final two years at Notre Dame.

# No running back topped five rushing touchdowns during Clausen's career.

# The team as a whole never scored more than 13 rushing touchdowns.

# Non-quarterbacks never accounted for more than 11 touchdowns in a season.

# Clausen's running game (excluding quarterbacks) averaged 3.56, 3.57, and 4.8 YPC during his career.

Personally, I don't think it's a coincidence the running game miraculously took off just as Clausen had one of the best seasons by a junior quarterback in NCAA history.

Let's discuss Clausen's horrid offensive line:

# Clausen's offensive line gave up a school-record 58 sacks in 2007.

# At least three members of that offensive line were still starting his junior year.

# Clausen had three different left tackles and three different centers over his collegiate career.

# Barring some front office's idiocy, two of those left tackles will never play a down in the NFL, let alone be drafted, and the third (Sam Young) was not only moved to the right side after Clausen's freshman season, but will almost assuredly be a Day 3 pick at the earliest.

# Given the offensive line's production throughout Clausen's career, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Chris Stewart or Dan Wenger will be drafted earlier than the fifth round, giving Eric Olsen the chance to be the highest-drafted offensive lineman of Clausen's tenure at around the third or fourth round. Trevor Robinson at right guard may have that honor in a year or two, but, he's still a guard.

Thus, we can rather safely say that Clausen had little to no talent on his offensive line. There will be video evidence of this offensive line - one that was starting four seniors - getting completely abused later on in this article to further hammer home the point.

At the skill positions, Clausen had a substantial amount of talent - but that talent was constantly hurt. Consider the following points:

# When Clausen was a freshman, Duval Kamara broke school receiving records for a freshman. Of the top six receivers on that 2007 team, three have gone/will go undrafted (Robby Parris, David Givens, and George West), one was a true freshman running back (Armando Allen), while the top receiver was tight end John Carlson.

# As a sophomore, Clausen had true freshmen starting at tight end and wide receiver, while a pair of true sophomores started at the other receiver spot and at running back. Michael Floyd shattered Kamara's records despite missing three games.

# As a junior, Floyd missed five games (during which Notre Dame was 4-1). Kyle Rudolph missed three games (all of which Notre Dame lost), and the likely undrafted Robby Parris was fifth on the team in catches and (for all intents and purposes) started in place of Floyd.

# In all, Floyd missed eight of the 25 games (a third, for those of you who can't count) in which both he and Clausen were Domers. During the 2009 season, by far Clausen's best as a college player, Floyd and Rudolph were on the field together for four games.

Having said all this, let it be established that Clausen did not have a substantially good supporting cast around him - and even at the positions where he had talent, those players were either extremely young and inexperienced, or injured. His production in spite of this should speak for itself.

But, just to really hammer home the point, let's look at some other quarterbacks with stellar supporting casts who were high draft picks:

Matt Leinart: Reggie Bush, LenDale White, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, Winston Justice, Deuce Lutui, Ryan Kalil, Mike Williams, Lofa Tatupu, Shaun Cody and Mike Patterson - these are just the players selected in the first two rounds of the 2005-2007 NFL Drafts.

Mark Sanchez: Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, Rey Maualuga and Fili Moala all went in the first two rounds in the 2009 NFL Draft. Patrick Turner was also selected in the third round. Damian Williams, Kris O'Dowd, Everson Griffen, Taylor Mays and Charles Brown all stand very good chances of being no later than second-round picks.

Matthew Stafford: Knowshon Moreno, Mohammed Massaquoi, Asher Allen and Corey Irvin were all selected in the first three rounds of the 2009 NFL Draft.

JaMarcus Russell: LaRon Landry, Dwayne Bowe and Craig Davis went in the first round of the same draft as Russell. Glenn Dorsey, Early Doucet, Jacob Hester and Chevis Jackson were all selected in the first three rounds of the 2008 NFL Draft.

Why did these four get passes for TONS of talent around them, while Clausen gets trashed repeatedly because of a supposedly elite receiver group? Russell had two first-round picks at receiver the same year he came out and still went No. 1 overall! All three of the other quarterbacks had at least a third-round pick at receiver the exact same year they declared for the NFL Draft, as well.

Now, for Clausen's actual performance. We're talking 34 career starts in his career, along with an additional six attempts against Georgia Tech in the 2007 season opener. In those 34 starts, Clausen threw for:

# At least 240 yards 18 times.

# More than 300 yards 10 times.

# Greater than 400 yards 3 times.

# Three-plus touchdowns 10 times (seven of which came in his first 22 starts - his freshman and sophomore seasons).

# At least one touchdown in 13 consecutive games.

# At least 246 yards in 13 of his last 15 games, including a current streak of eight straight games.

Clausen has completed at least 70 percent of his passes nine times (min. 18 attempts), including twice with 40-plus passing attempts. He has also thrown more touchdowns than incompletions twice in his career.

Let's compare those stats to his interception numbers. Clausen has had eight multiple-interception games. He has not had more than one interception in a game since Nov. 29, 2008, giving him a 13-game streak of having one or fewer interceptions per contest. He has not had a multiple-interception home game since Sept. 13, 2008, a stretch of 11 games; during that period, he has thrown two interceptions in true home games.

Let's look at Clausen's overall performance. Since his freshman year, his quarterback rating has improved by a whopping 29 points every season (103.85 to 132.49 to 161.43). Keep in mind that Clausen was not given a redshirt at any point during his career; these are true freshman/sophomore/junior numbers.

To put Clausen's performance in perspective, his true sophomore numbers are roughly the same or better than Matt Ryan's senior season in every category except sacks (dead even at 21), attempts (Ryan had roughly 200 more), total passing yardage (Ryan had 700-plus yards more than any other pro-style quarterback drafted in the first round since 2004), and touchdowns (Ryan had 6 more TDs than Clausen). Yes, Clausen had fewer interceptions, a better completion percentage and more yards per attempt as a true sophomore than Ryan, the senior, No. 3 overall pick in 2008.

If nothing else, this ought to show Clausen's coachibility; he notably improved every season in college, and actually outperformed a senior top-five pick, which should quiet the strange murmurs that he was a "one-year wonder" (which, naturally, didn't hurt Mark Sanchez any, even though Clausen outperformed Sanchez in every statistical category except touchdowns, of which he had six fewer in one less game - a nearly insignificant difference when one realizes Sanchez had four touchdowns in that final game).

Clausen's junior year performance hardly needs to be put in better perspective than WalterFootball.com already has, but just to drill home the point, Clausen's stats across the board are tied for fourth-best amongst the 10 pro-style quarterbacks selected in the first round since 2004.
Clausen is first in fewest interceptions with half as many picks as the next-best quarterbacks, and is 2.9 percent more accurate than the third-most accurate quarterback out of that group, Aaron Rodgers (JaMarcus Russell, hilariously enough, is the only guy in Clausen's time zone in this regard with a 67.8 completion percentage).

Only three of these quarterbacks threw more touchdowns than Clausen in their final seasons - Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez, and Brady Quinn - one of whom actually tied Clausen for third if we only take the regular season into account (Ryan), even granting Ryan the 13th (ACC Championship) game (it's only fair to note that Ryan threw three of his 19 picks in the final two games of his 14-game season).

On to the claim that Clausen is not a "winner." Even though this is an arbitrary and rather pointless claim to make, we'll address it anyway:

# As a junior, Clausen led three straight game-winning drives on his final possession in Weeks 3-5.

# Clausen brought his team back from a 31-20 deficit to take the lead against Michigan in Week 2 with 5:13 left to go, only to watch his defense give up a touchdown with 11 seconds left; on his penultimate drive of the game, with Michael Floyd out with a leg injury, Golden Tate dropped a SLIGHTLY underthrown pass to ice the game, and Shaquelle Evans quit on a route (and perfectly thrown pass) that would have given Notre Dame a first down and again iced the game, in back-to-back plays (seen here at 8:54-9:12).

# Down 34-14 with 13:33 left to play against USC, Clausen led three drives down the field. Tausch missed an extra point, and Duval Kamara slipped on a route in the endzone on fourth down that, had he been where he was supposed to be, would have resulted in a touchdown and a chance to tie (or win, had Taush made the extra point).

# Against Navy, Clausen led Notre Dame to two touchdowns in the final 4:46, a game in which the Notre Dame punter did not step onto the field; the Irish turned the ball over 3 times, failed twice on fourth down, and the kicker missed two field goals, including one from within 40 yards.

# Against Stanford, Notre Dame did not trail from the final 40 seconds of the first quarter until the final minute of the fourth and held an 11-point lead twice; Notre Dame's defense gave up 15 points in the final nine minutes, including letting Stanford run almost the entire final six minutes off the clock; Clausen still drove the team down to the Stanford 24 before his final pass fell incomplete in the end zone.

Overall, Notre Dame's defense/special teams gave up 30-plus points five times. Notre Dame averaged 32.4 PPG in those games.

Now, to put an end to the claim that Clausen had a decent offensive line. Since it single-handedly made Everson Griffen's season, let's pull out the USC-ND game tape from this year. Use this video of Notre Dame-USC highlights for reference:

# At around :10 in, Clausen gets the ball snapped to him. Everson Griffen spins right around Paul Duncan at LT and Clausen is going to the ground at :12. Not his fault.

# At 1:25, Clausen gets the ball, has no one open, and goes down to a three-man rush by 1:30. That's a coverage sack that Clausen probably should have thrown away; sure, we'll give the haters that one even though it's three-on-five and no three-man rush should get to the quarterback ever.

# Now let's mix things up and focus on that stellar running game that got 2.6 YPC in this contest. At 1:54, Notre Dame tries to run up the middle on 4th-and-1 and fails miserably because a linebacker and safety just blow through the middle of the line.

# This next one at 2:31 is a personal favorite: Everson Griffen comes in through the middle on a stunt, forces Clausen to run for his life, and finally sacks him at 2:36. At 2:32, the tight end pulls a ridiculously half-hearted chip before running a route over the middle, the running back completely whiffs at 2:33, and right guard completely whiffs half a second later. Clausen is running for dear life by 2:34 because three guys completely fail to even slow down one guy.

# At 3:12, Clausen takes another snap, gets forced to step up into pressure at 3:14 because Sam Young is getting his a** handed to him, and finally gets sacked at 3:15 because he can't see out of the closet that one might optimistically call a "pocket."

# At 4:22, Clausen gets the ball and sees immediate pressure put on him from the right side, with the end taking him to the ground at 4:25. Note that on the very next play, Clausen threads the needle to Golden Tate for a touchdown while getting drilled AGAIN.

# At 5:01, Clausen is about to get totaled by a defender and is forced to scramble out of the pocket. He throws a great pass where only his receiver can catch it. All of this is even more astounding when one looks at the USC offense versus the Notre Dame defense; please, someone insult my intelligence by suggesting that Clausen didn't have to deal with one of the worst defenses in Division I football, and that the fact that he didn't lose by more than seven points his entire junior year is not absolutely shocking.

This is just one game's worth of exceptionally bad tape for Notre Dame's offensive line. Clausen gets sacked at least three times in three seconds or less, extends a play with his legs that ends in a sack about two seconds later than it otherwise would have, and takes a coverage sack against a three-man rush that his offensive line can't block for longer than five seconds. And yet, Clausen put up 260 yards, two passing touchdowns, one rushing touchdown, and zero interceptions or fumbles while leading his team back from a 20-point deficit in the fourth quarter.

Now that we've dealt with the on-field stuff, let's talk about the infamous "character issues" that everyone bandies about. We'll take it nice and slow.

Let's talk about his supposedly abrasive attitude. Where does this even come from? Yeah, he comes across as arrogant in his interviews. So what? Who cares? So do Philip Rivers and Jay Cutler. Tony Romo has come across as flat-out disinterested in football entirely at times; he's won a playoff game and is one of the best regular-season quarterbacks in the league over the past four years.

The fact of the matter is that multiple teammates and coaches are on record saying Clausen's attitude was not a problem in the locker room. Jon Tenuta, who has absolutely no reason to praise Clausen or anyone else on the Notre Dame team, went so far as to say that the previous coaching staff would still have their jobs if everyone on the team had been as good a player and teammate as Clausen.

Golden Tate, Michael Floyd and Kyle Rudolph all spent the summer before the 2009 season at Clausen's Cali home, working on routes and getting to know each other better for the fall. It wasn't mandatory, and any of the three could have gotten out of it by just saying they didn't want to spend a lot of time so long away from home. They didn't. Nobody spends a summer working and hanging out with a guy they think is an arrogant .... Not a single player has said that Clausen was difficult to work or play with; not even on an anonymous basis.

Let's go with the specific instances people use to point to Clausen's "immaturity." We'll start with the "pointing at opposing coaches after touchdowns" one. I never saw this in three years of watching Clausen play. If someone can bring out game tape of that happening, by all means, do share. As far as I'm concerned, that's a load of crap, and if it did happen, perhaps Clausen is pointing at a teammate and the whole thing is being misconstrued.

Which brings us to easy accusation No. 2: the "altercation" with a Boston College player after Notre Dame's 20-16 victory this past year. Here's video of that. Gee, I never knew going up to a guy (Rich Gunnell) to shake his hand and having him stick his finger in your face and talking s*** to you reflects badly on the guy who's displaying good sportsmanship!

Clausen moved halfway across the country to go to Notre Dame. He didn't go to USC, which annually reloads with talent and would have given him a stellar chance at winning 2-3 national titles. He didn't go to any other hometown team like UCLA or Cal, either. He went to a school with fairly high academic requirements, in the Midwest.

Playing on a national stage every week, Clausen took the blame for the way the 2008 season ended. To quote Clausen: "A lot of guys took that hard; it hurt. Some (assistant) coaches lost their jobs because we weren't playing to our potential. I'm taking it personally. Coach Weis will not get fired because of me. But it's not just me - that's the way the rest of the guys in the locker room feel. We've talked about it since the USC game all the way through this spring. We've put it upon ourselves to play to our potential for everyone to keep their job. For the team to win, for all the coaches to keep their jobs, for everyone to be happy around here. It's motivation for us; a kick in the butt for everyone. We have to stop messing around and play to our potential." That's an awful lot of plural pronouns there for a guy who's supposedly all about "me me me."

Next point: the "brawl" (I can't even type that without laughing in disbelief) outside a bar the week before the Stanford game. I can't believe anyone who would call getting sucker-punched evidence of immaturity. From what we know, some guy outside a bar came up to Clausen as the latter was leaving, talked s*** to him, grabbed Clausen's girlfriend, and punched him in the face when Clausen tried to do something about it. No self-respecting man would put up with a guy coming up to his girlfriend and harassing her, so I fail to see how Clausen acted inappropriately here since he didn't retaliate.

Don't give me this crap about "well, he must have done something to provoke the guy." It happened at a bar, for one, and it's not exactly unreasonable to assume our unidentified friend had been drinking. In case anyone is unaware, alcohol inhibits judgement, so it's not like the guy needed a GOOD reason to do this; anyone who's ever dealt with a drunken friend can tell you the same. Combine that with a three-game losing streak and Clausen being the quarterback, and our drunken friend's motivation is pretty clear.

By the way, does anyone remember that Rashard Mendenhall was mugged in Chicago within a month of being drafted by the Steelers? Does that make him a character concern? I mean, he could have instigated his own mugging. You don't know. There's about as much evidence for it as Clausen instigating getting punched in the face by a presumably drunken and disgruntled fan.

There is not a scrap of reliable evidence for why Clausen is a so-called "character concern." Nobody from the Notre Dame camp has been directly quoted as saying Clausen is a bad person to play with. The closest thing I could find? An anonymous (naturally) former teammate being quoted. For all anyone knows, it was Demetrius Jones or Munir Prince, both of whom transferred after Clausen's freshman year.

This isn't Ryan Leaf 2.0 we're talking about here. Leaf's problems, in no particular order, were that he was a one-year wonder, couldn't take criticism, and was extremely resistant to being coached up. Clausen steadily improved every year under Weis as shown above. He's proven to being extremely coachable and never complained about all the negative things that were said about him. Instead, he took it as a failure on his part and worked to improve.

I honestly don't think I need to go into the physical aspect of his game; all the tape you need on whether he can succeed in the pros is available in that highlight reel from the 2009 USC game, especially that final drive where he makes great throws under a ton of pressure (both literal and figurative). Even that anonymous former teammate that was quoted said Clausen had a great arm. Clausen is no smaller than Aaron Rodgers, so he's not too small for the position.

Moreover, while Clausen had enough injuries to be labeled injury-prone during his career at Notre Dame, he only missed two contests in his entire 35-game career, playing through bone spurs in his elbow, the flu and a torn tendon in his toe (which he aggravated later in the season). Compare this to Sam Bradford, who injured and then re-injured his throwing shoulder last year, costing him 10 games and parts of two others.

In conclusion: Jimmy Clausen posted numbers that hold up well when compared with other pro-style quarterbacks drafted in the first round over the past five years. The character concerns are, at best, heavily overrated, and at worst, completely fabricated.

His surrounding talent level as an excuse is practically a joke, and at least four quarterbacks selected in the first seven picks in the past five drafts have had at least equivalent levels of talent around them, making this an unfair and exceptionally biased criticism of Clausen.

Clausen improved every season he played in college, to an extremely underrated degree, negating the argument that he's a so-called "one-year wonder," which, incidentally, did not stop Aaron Rodgers or Mark Sanchez from being drafted in the first round.

In essence, there is no reason Jimmy Clausen should not be, at the very least, considered the top quarterback in this draft class.

illegalmoe #472745 03/29/10 10:35 AM
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jc
I really hope the Browns can solidify the OL before we start again with young QBs.

To my eye Pashoes and Womack look like guards that can fill in at RT not full time starting RTs. I have no idea if St Clair can play guard but I know he can't play tackle.

Lets draft a RT this year so he'd be ready when we have to play an inexperienced QB.

If we're ever going to develop a decent QB we're going to have provide a situation where it's not going to take a miracle for the kid to succeed.




Great post.

OoooRahJoice #472746 03/29/10 10:38 AM
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If we're ever going to develop a decent QB we're going to have provide a situation where it's not going to take a miracle for the kid to succeed




Or even survive


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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Damanshot #472747 03/30/10 11:18 AM
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Go to the link and check out the video on Clausen...

Here is the info on the browns

Quote:



Cleveland Browns
Needs: CB, QB, WR, OLB, S and RB



Analysis: Enter Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert as the decision makers and the West Coast offense is on its way to the Browns. There has been lots of turnover and it will continue beyond the draft. The Browns need to draft a young quarterback, but before they do that, defensive help is needed at corner, safety and outside linebacker. Cleveland traded Kamerion Wimbley, and he had more success than most Browns at getting to the QB. Serviceable additions like LB Scott Fujita, TE Ben Watson and OT Tony Pashos give the new front office a chance to skip those positions in the draft until the later rounds. Cleveland has five picks in the top 92 and 12 in the top 186 to overhaul this roster.

Draft choices: Nos. 7, 38, 71, 85, 92, 105, 134, 137, 146, 160, 177 and 186





http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d...mp;confirm=true


#GMSTRONG

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Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
cfrs15 #472748 04/04/10 08:47 AM
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Going off of Holmgren's comments alone we should all assume that if Clausen is there in the 2nd round we won't be taking him.




LMAO...U guys kill me with this Holmgren's comments crap...

THINK PEOPLE...

Pit...U keep harping on Holmgrens comments also...

Have u guys ever thought about this???

I can think of THREE conceivable reasons...As to why he would make like we do not like Clausen...

1) Oakland and Davis trading up...(8)

2) Buffalo trading up...(9)

3) Jax trading up...(10)

We say we LOVE em' and Seattle gladly goes down to 8/9/10 and gets a LT...And more picks...

To ME...This is a 3 horse pony...

1) If Berry's there (Clausen's gone)...We go Berry...

2) If Clausen's there (Berry's gone)...We go Clausen...

3) If both r gone...We try like hell to trade down...

NO WAY both Clausen AND Berry will be there at 7...

THAT my friend is why an NFL GM doesn't say they LOVE anyone in a draft at the top... Especially a QB...The single HARDEST position to fill in the NFL...


Go Browns!!!
Dawg in Dayton #472749 04/04/10 09:10 AM
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2) If Clausen's there (Berry's gone)...We go Clausen...





man,..I really hope you're wrong with this.

Calzone #472750 04/04/10 10:35 AM
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Quote:

2) If Clausen's there (Berry's gone)...We go Clausen...





man,..I really hope you're wrong with this.



Me too.


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Calzone #472751 04/04/10 12:42 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

2) If Clausen's there (Berry's gone)...We go Clausen...





man,..I really hope you're wrong with this.



me too

Dawg in Dayton #472752 04/04/10 08:49 PM
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Pit...U keep harping on Holmgrens comments also...




Let's be honest here DnD.

I keep harping on anything I can because I don't like him. We both know someone who has ties to the Notre Dame locker room who says he's a cancer. I take his word for it.

You like Claussen so you jump at anything to pimp the kid. We just disagree about Claussen thus the difference!



See, wasn't that easy!



You wanna know my real beef with drafting Claussen at #7? Well here it is..
________________________________________________

Many question his attitude and work ethic, and have compared him to former bust Ryan Leaf.

http://www.sportsnewsandscores.com/2010-...n-the-line.html

But many talent evaluators -- and add Holmgren's name to the list -- continue to say that Clausen isn't worth that high a pick.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/nfl-draft/mike-holmgren-is-latest-to-say.html

Will dance in the pocket and rush his throws when consistently pressured; makes too many mistakes due to losing his mechanics in these situations. Has a reputation of being a me-first player; not the attitude you want in a franchise quarterback. Maturity may be a concern.

http://draftace.com/profiles/2010/jimmy_clausen.htm

_______________________________________________

This is what concerns me about Claussen. Installing a new system with such a large turnover of players that "we will have", having a "me first" guy rather than a team player concerns me.

Do I know it to be gospel? No I don't. But these reports combined with our mutual friend give me enough "cause for concern" that I'd rather pass on the kid.

I know you disagree and that's fine. But when you are talking about the #7 overall draft pick and our QB of the future, this is enough of a question to turn me off.

jmho


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #472753 04/04/10 10:25 PM
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I don't really buy into the bad character reports of Clausen, I know he has a little swagger but he's a young guy. There's nothing wrong with having a little bit of confidence/swagger.

As a passer, he's pretty good to me. ND didn't lose because of Jimmy Clausen last year, if anything their receivers dropped some easy passes. Short and medium passes, Clausen is money. The further you get, the higher he's throwing it. But it's nothing like his older brother Casey Clausen's throws (which I remember seemed to be like mortars). He measured in taller than I thought he would which is a plus too. Clausen was accurate and made great decisions in ND's offense. He put up a lot of points and a lot of yards. He was good against good teams. He definitely has a lot of experience. Seeing that ND is on every week, I like to watch them and I definitely was impressed with Clausen this season. ND had a really bad defense and the O-line was spotty/receivers weren't always reliable. I don't remember too much about their running game so they must not have done it that much/been that good at it IMO Jimmy Clausen was one of the two bright spots on that team last year (Golden Tate being the other)


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PitDAWG #472754 04/04/10 10:38 PM
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Oh please no Clausen! I would puke! This guy will make Quinn look like a real QB...Naaah that's not possible. Anyway, I think Holmgren's comments were geared more for teams looking to move up to get him. We have three sitting right behind us and a bidding war would be nice. The Raiders, Bills, and Jags. One will more than likely land Jason Campbell. This draft can go so many ways now. Washington might trade down to try and recoup their pick, I wonder if Wyche is pimping him and KC tries to trade Cassel. It sure would be nice if Philly sent that 2nd they just got our way for Rogers.


"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
PeteyDangerous #472755 04/04/10 11:11 PM
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I don't really buy into the bad character reports of Clausen, I know he has a little swagger but he's a young guy. There's nothing wrong with having a little bit of confidence/swagger.




There's a fine line between swagger and cockiness. Between self-confidence and conceit.

I'm not asking you to buy into it. But those are just a few sources I have seen. As was posted it's not just me, but others that are in the business. Even someone I know who is familiar with the ND locker room.

So if people don't buy into it, that's fine. But the fact is, both Ryan Leaf and Jeff George had as much or more hype around them than Claussen does. And for every great 1st round QB there are far more busts. And as with Leaf and George it was all about their attitude.

So I've seen enough evidence in my time on earth to see the consequences on taking a risk on a kid who has these kind of questions surrounding them.


He's even gone so far as to take it to the media to try to sell himself and disclaim these things. IMO the old saying applies................"I think thou doest protest too much".

He keeps saying he's a "loving, caring person" to both Marty McShay then repeated it on Rome word for word. I'm waiting for him to hit the talk show circut repeating it.



I'm not really asking anybody to buy into it but there's enough evidence to convince me not to take him at #7. 15-20? Maybe.

I respect your right to dismiss it but sorry if I can't join you.

jmho


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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LOYALDAWG #472756 04/04/10 11:13 PM
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I'd be really surprised to see Clausen get passed if he falls to 7.

And that is looking more and more likely.

St. Louis will likely take Bradford.
Detroit will almost certainly take Okung.
Tampa is gonna take DL, whichever they like better.
Washington has got to get OL. With no 2nd they can't wait.
KC still likes Cassel as far as I know.
SEA just traded for a young QB that has no experience. This is the most likely spot for Clausen to go if he doesn't fall. I think Carrol will take Berry.

Leaving CLE with Clausen. The rule of thumb is, if you don't have a franchise QB you gotta take one if he's there. Question is, does Holmgren and Co. see that in Clausen?

The only rap I see on this guy is that people don't like him personally. I don't care if the dude is a likeable guy. DA is a likeable guy. Looked like he was a lot of fun to have around. I want a QB that I can depend on to win a game for me.

Also, there are two top-notch character guys at the position now. We probably won't win a superbowl with JD or SW but by all accounts they are pro's pro's. It's relatively reasonable to hope that a team that stresses discipline and character with excellent leadership at his position would have a positive impact on the kid.

JMHO, if he falls we take him.


A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.

John Barrymore
LOYALDAWG #472757 04/04/10 11:13 PM
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Oh please no Clausen! I would puke! This guy will make Quinn look like a real QB...Naaah that's not possible.




Okay, so what are your reasons you don't want Clausen. Did you watch many ND games last year? Explain to me what exactly is the issue with Jimmy Clausen? Character? From reports, that's all. I've heard him in interviews and he's seemed fine. He's gotten praise from his coaches. He's had composure on the field. He's a junior but had three years experience playing. He's only going to continue to mature.

So what's wrong with his play? Or what else is it?


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PeteyDangerous #472758 04/04/10 11:57 PM
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Most of the rap from Clausen is associated with him taking a limo to a press conference to announce his decision to go to ND.

That was 3 years ago, and it still is coming back to haunt him.

From what I saw of the ND games he was pretty competitive. I am not sure he would fit with the Cleveland Blue Collar town motto, but as a player, I saw him perform well.

Frankly I would not draft him at 7. There are too many ghosts of departed QB's sitting in Cleveland.


Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
WooferDawg #472759 04/05/10 12:03 AM
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I am not sure he would fit with the Cleveland Blue Collar town motto, but as a player, I saw him perform well.




That might be true. I definitely see him as more of a New York kind of guy.



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