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I have read a few places that for the Browns to move up in round one to be in position for a qb, it would cost them a 3rd rounder.....hmmmmm, now we have one to play with, and one to keep..
According to the draft value chart, we're at 7 which has value of 1500 and the raiders 3rd is the 69th pick value at 245, so with our 1745 Bradford would have to drop to 5th, set at 1700 value for us to get him for our 1st and the raiders 3rd. Now with our 4th too we could add in that 103 for 1848 and snag him if he dropped to 4th valued at 1800.
To get up to the 3rd spot valued at 2200, we'd have to toss in our 2nd valued at 520 and our own 3rd valued at 235 with our 1500 1st spot to get to 2255. To move up to 2nd (2600) or 1st (3000) I think it would take something next year too.
#GMSTRONG
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Adam Scheftler is reporting that alot of teams were in the Kam derby, and the Raiders won because they had the highest 3rd rounder.
I've often said that Kam wasn't nearly as bad as people on here make him out to be, but we are getting a high 3rd rounder in a deep draft for him. This was a very good trade for the Browns.
'U takin' to mme?"
I've always said Kam was weak..rookie year...great..after that nothing...still say it was the wrong selection by Phil..but he's outta here..he never could set the edge and turn plays inside..he wasn't strong or aggressive enough.
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i was surprised to see this trade. I have recently thought the browns would be a better team the day Kam was replaced, but i just assumed he would be kept around for quality depth. I still haven't seen the terms of this deal finalized, sounds like a third and hopefully its the raiders higher third round pick. That would be good value and should land a good player.
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According to the draft value chart, we're at 7 which has value of 1500 and the raiders 3rd is the 69th pick value at 245, so with our 1745 Bradford would have to drop to 5th, set at 1700 value for us to get him for our 1st and the raiders 3rd. Now with our 4th too we could add in that 103 for 1848 and snag him if he dropped to 4th valued at 1800.
I have to ask this.. sorry if it's a stupid question,
Does anyone really believe that the teams use this formula to make thier final decisions.. I mean, I guess it could be benchmark kinda thing, but let's be honest, did the Saints use the formula to get Ricky Williams in 1999?
I think not.. But that might be an extreme example of NOT using any formulas. (as well as not using the brains god gave them  )
I just wonder if it's more, "we believe this guy can be a winner for us and we need him" Rather than a "the formula says its a good deal" kinda thing...
Just wondering
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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peen...and I just read that the Browns could be looking to draft a QB in the 2nd round....Heckert was involved in the draft that brought Kevin Kolb to the Eagles...in the 2nd round... 
great.
Brings Tebow in to the picture.
Tulsa....I think it did mention up to number 5...while I wasn't clear, I wasn't trying to say a move to #1 would cost just a 3rd....but as Daman said, I doubt GMs have the value chart reduced to wallet size for quick reference.
If you really want to move up, you pay what it takes. If you want to move down, you price it to sell.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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From what i have understood over the years......It is used as a bench mark. Teams are not gonna fall out over points on a chart...... but more toward what they deem a fair deal.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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If you really want to move up, you pay what it takes. If you want to move down, you price it to sell.
Thats sums it up!!!!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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-JC-
Not too shocked about this. He wasn't worth the 1st round pick. We should have taken Ngata but what is done is done. Good Luck Kam, wish you the best. You did give us your absolute best every time on the feild which is all I can ask of anyone.
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Clayton is saying that "sources" are saying the Browns will attempt to trade up to get SB/JC............so "sources" are worthless right now..lol.
I could see us picking one in rounds 1 or 2, but for those who want a developmental pick your out of luck. We will be picking one early who we deem can be ready for 2011 season. I still think we will try hard to move up and get SB/JC, but I can see it going mac and Ytown's way of getting a McCoy in the 2nd round............or perhaps Lefevour in the 3rd.
What I can't see is us drafting a guy past the 3rd round, because we need somebody that will be ready to go in 2011. Beyond the big 2 and maybe McCoy and Lefevour there isn't anybody who fits that criteria (sorry Peen MH has already said it would take at least 2 years to fix Timmay's throwing motion so that disqualifies him...lol).
The new guy will only get 1 year to set and learn, and then he will have to be ready. This probably means a 1st round QB, and most definitly means a QB in the early rounds.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I saw this on sportscenter as well and it sounded like pure speculation on his part. Is it confirmed which Oakland pick we got for Wimbley yet?
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Anyone that thinks we can trade up to #1 without giving up a first next year along with a few picks this year is kidding themselves. The #1 is going to cost a pair of firsts and multiple picks behind it. In this deep of a draft it would be stupid to make such a move and it would be really stupid to give all that up for a QB that cant take a hit.
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Still i wouldn't be surprised to see us take Tebow , McCoy in the two spot or even Lafevour (sp) in one of our three spots or maybe in the four.
I feel MH is using coach speak to give no one a lean either way.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Anyone that thinks we can trade up to #1 without giving up a first next year along with a few picks this year is kidding themselves. The #1 is going to cost a pair of firsts and multiple picks behind it. In this deep of a draft it would be stupid to make such a move and it would be really stupid to give all that up for a QB that cant take a hit.
Bradford would be assuming he falls to 5 or so....and he might.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If the Rams dont take him.......he very well could fall that far.
It all will hinge on the top pick.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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I agree..........the only way we trade up for Sam is if he falls to the Lions 2 pick. I can see the Lions trading down if Suh is gone and they can free up some $$$ and get another pick or 2.
eotab said basically the same thing about a month ago, and the way this is unfolding I think he's probably right. If the Rams go elsewhere I could easily see us moving up and swapping with the Lions. I could also easily see us swapping picks with the Cheifs if Claussen get's by the Skins.
It really depends on how we view those 2 guys, but from the way they have handled the QB situation this year they definitly have their eyes on somebody in the early rounds.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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(sorry Peen MH has already said it would take at least 2 years to fix Timmay's throwing motion so that disqualifies him...lol).
What's the ONE THING we know for sure about this time of year?
I'll tell you.. We don't know if any team exec tells the truth about what they are thinking of players in the draft..
While I don't believe we are going to draft Tebow, I wouldn't ever use what Holmgren said as the reason... 
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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My feeling exactly......i said pretty much the same a few posts up.
Dont be surprised on what we do as far as the qb position goes. It wouldn't surprise me if we stayed pat with what we have. I hope not but MH isn't gonna give a lean or a tip either way.
Coach speak is about all we will hear till draft day.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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To me this move is more surprising and much bigger news than Quinn. We all saw the writing on the wall after they gave Delhome the deal he got. The only guy who gives his backup that kind of money is Phil Savage.
I'm very excited about this one. I just think Wimbley was over matched at times. He is a very good athlete but I just never thought he was going to ever take it to the next level.
The other positive is we won't have to read the articles about how he is working on a new pass rush move and it's going to help him wreak havoc on the NFL this season.
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Getting overmatched, while having a LOT to do with Kam's physical capabilities, has as much to do with coaching and scheme as anything.
I wish him no professional success in Oakland though. He is now the enemy.
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The other positive is we won't have to read the articles about how he is working on a new pass rush move and it's going to help him wreak havoc on the NFL this season.
Funny. You know there was a Cleveland.com reporter writing up that "new" article last week. He/She would have been crushed to hear this news.
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A very nice move by our new FO.
Wimbley was a popular favorite, but he was also a one-trick pony. That isn't going to cut it. To get a 3rd for him - any 3rd, particularly THIS offseason when there are so many RFA's to be had - is almost blatant robbery. He did improve over the past few years in terms of trying to set the edge and what not, but there was still plenty to be desired. He was adequate, but not impressive.
G'luck in Oakland, Kam... thanks for the years here.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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thanks for all your hard work Wimbley. you gave it your all the entire time you were here in town and have always shown the utmost class from everything I have seen.
unfortunately, your talent never could match your 1st round pick expectations and with a deep draft and a new FO, your time has come to switch teams.
I wish you the best of luck in your career and hope that you enjoyed your time on the north coast.
#gmstrong
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It's frustrating to see us dump good guys (as in a personal sense rather than in an on field sense)
Wimbley was a class act from day one.. No complaints, great guy by all accounts and I don't question his effort..
But in the end, He apparently didn't fit in with what the NEW brain trust wanted..
I think overtime we are going to start seeing a higher caliber of guys in here.. In terms of skill that is. They don't come much better than Wimbley with regards to character.
With all the years of losing, maybe it's time to try a new approach..
That's what this looks like to me.. But only time will tell I guess
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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But in the end, He apparently didn't fit in with what the NEW brain trust wanted..
I'm honestly not certain that he truly fit what the OLD brain trust wanted, either. I think that we simply invested enough in him that we had to continually give him a shot, and he was good enough to keep giving hope, but not good enough to validate the investment.
Absolutely a good, high character guy though. For all the bashing and what not, you *never* saw or heard anything bad coming from the guy. A class act for sure.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It's frustrating to see us dump good guys (as in a personal sense rather than in an on field sense)
Wimbley was a class act from day one.. No complaints, great guy by all accounts and I don't question his effort..
Not to mention he was our first 1st round pick to not hold out in a long time.
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Pick # 85.
Wimbley wasn't a bust, not like Couch, Green, or Quinn. He was durable and improved as time went by.
Unfortunately for everyone involved, he never improved the one thing that he was brought here to do: Disrupt the backfield. He had to go, and I'm glad we got some AWESOME value for him. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Once again, the thread is getting long so I don't know if this has been posted.. Quote:
Cleveland Browns won't even get a high No. 3 for Kamerion Wimbley
By Tony Grossi
March 15, 2010, 11:24AM
CLEVELAND -- Upon further review, the Browns' trade of linebacker Kamerion Wimbley to Oakland is worse than originally thought.
According to reports, the Raiders apparently will send the Browns the lower of their two picks in the third round for Wimbley, a No. 1 pick in 2006.
The Raiders obtained a third-round pick from New England -- No. 86 overall -- last year in exchange for defensive lineman Richard Seymour. That's the pick coming to the Browns instead of Oakland's own third-round pick, No. 70 overall.
The Browns have not confirmed the trade.
Browns President Mike Holmgren is expected to address the media later this afternoon
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/cleveland_browns_wont_even_get.html
Looks like the pick we are getting isn't as good as first thought..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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 Bit of a downer, but even before knowing what we were getting I thought a 3rd and up was a good deal, so I guess I can't be too bumed.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Not gonna sweat a # 85 pick..as the Browns can use that ,oh ,maybe to aquire a QB..
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maybe not but still the best we could get. can't say we left a better option on the table, at least not with the current details.
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Bit of a downer, but even before knowing what we were getting I thought a 3rd and up was a good deal, so I guess I can't be too bumed.
There's a big difference in quality between the 2nd pick and the 18th pick, but when you get into the 3rd round and beyond, the quality difference in players is much smaller. At that point, it comes down to the skills of the scouting departments and the people making the calls. With Heckert and Holmgren on board, I'm pretty confident that they'll know what they are looking at, unlike Savage and Butch. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not gonna sweat a # 85 pick..as the Browns can use that ,oh ,maybe to aquire a QB..
Not a big deal, but according to the article I just posted, it's the #86 pick,,, not an earth shattering difference
#GMSTRONG
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j/c...
I'm disappointed that Heckert and Holmgren could not get the Raiders #69 pick (5th pick in 3rd round) for Wimbley.
He was a solid player, certainly worth more to any team than a 3rd pick in this years draft, especially the 21st pick in the 3rd round.
I don't understand why we did not hold out for Raiders #69 pick, especially if we had other teams interested in Wimbley.
I don't see any reason why the Browns had to be in a hurry and could not afford to play a little hardball with the Raiders.
It's one thing to have a fire sale...it's another thing to just unload players as fast as you can. Unless there is other information not known by the public at this time...I think Heckert and Holmgren got schooled a little on this move.
Last edited by mac; 03/15/10 12:35 PM.
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Not knowing the inside information but it was probably the best deal out of the other teams. Sometimes when you play poker and bluff you can get burned. I trust TH and MH's decision. Both have had expereince and they probably believe it was the right decision. I still think the 2011 season will be the one where we compete for playoffs, IMO the 2010 season will be a bit of a downer (5-11 or 6-10). I hope we find a few diamonds in the draft and they prove my feeling wrong. I just don't see a great team right now and IMO a bunch of rookies isn't going to make it better this year. IMO our safties are average at best, Wright isn't a #1 corner, our Linebackers are average, Our D-Line is pretty solid. On offense we just signed a Vet QB comming off his worst year, our RB's are a ??, our right side of our line is a ??, our WR's are being anchored by second year guys, our TE's look solid with acquistion of Watson and I'd say our C, LG, LT and FB are Solid. I just don't see a great team next year and the rookies comming in this year just won't be enough. In fact we might take a step back again and be at 4-12 again this year with yet again a new offensive scheme/QB taking over. Oh well, nothing I can do but watch and wait till this frachise returns to glory. 
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articles said that the other teams interested owned later picks in the 3rd round. you can't hold out for higher compensation when the rest of the market is only willing to pay you less, lol. otherwise, i'd go tell my ceo that i should be paid twice my compensation because everyone else is willing to pay me less than i make right now, lol.
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Thats not what they were getting at. They were talking about playing hard ball and pitting each team against each other in a "bidding war" to try and get the highest possible pick possible. The deal comes across as done fairly quickly as the media didn't catch wind of the possible deal before hand.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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articles said that the other teams interested owned later picks in the 3rd round. you can't hold out for higher compensation when the rest of the market is only willing to pay you less,
dong...but the raiders didn't know that!
Again, the Brown got taken a bit by Al Davis on this deal.
Hell, the least Heckert and Holmgren could have gotten is a #6 or #7 in next years draft tossed in.
I doubt those familar with NFL trades are going to believe the Browns got fair value in this deal, especially since the raiders had two picks in the 3rd round and we settled for the lower pick.
It's not a huge deal...
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you can't get a bidding war if people were saying "all i'm going to give you is our 3rd" and the 3rd they hold is a later pick than the one offered by the raiders. there is no bidding war there.
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you can't get a bidding war if people were saying "all i'm going to give you is our 3rd" and the 3rd they hold is a later pick than the one offered by the raiders. there is no bidding war there.
dong...again, your assuming the raiders know what the other deal are...they shouldnt have known and I doubt they did.
again, not a huge deal but Al Davis got the best of Mike Holmgren on this deal...maybe Al will make it up to us on draft day...who knows.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Wimbley to the Raiders?
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