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Thanks...I wonder what happens when employers figure out the fine is cheaper than providing coverage??
Rhetorical question, yes?
"My signature line goes here."
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4. Furthermore, the insurance you are being forced to carry is to protect others from loss due to your negligence; you are not being taxed to pay for the insurance of others.
On the contrary, take into account the MCCA fee, which is mandatory in Michigan. - This fee is charged per vehicle on any Michigan auto policy and the money charged is used to fund catastrophic pip claims in Michigan. - A catastrophic pip claim can be an accident that happens miles away that has nothing to do with you. You can go for years without a claim in Michigan, but the state still forces you to pay a $62.44 fee per vehicle at every 6 month renewal.
Call it what you want, but that's a tax, and it is separate... but it is also a case of nitpicking to find a weak counterpoint to a statement. It, itself, is NOT the insurance... and in any case, you don't pay it if you don't get insurance.
Also note: If you don't live in that state, you don't have to worry about it.
p.s. It is also just one more reason why that state up north SUCKS 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Texas Congressman: I made 'baby killer' remark
March 22, 2010
Washington (CNN) – A Texas Republican acknowledged on Monday that he was the person who yelled "baby killer" during Sunday's House debate on health care reform.
Rep. Randy Neugebauer said he shouted out "'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership" on compromise language that emphasized federal funds would not be used to pay for abortions.
Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak was on the House floor talking about the issue at the time of Neugebauer's outburst. Stupak was the leader of a group of anti-abortion rights Democrats who refused to back health care reform unless their concerns were addressed.
In a statement released by his office, Neugerbauer said that his comments have been misconstrued.
"Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support," he said. "In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase 'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.
"I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate."
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What does that have to do with anything?? 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Rep. Randy Neugebauer said he shouted out "'it's a baby killer' in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership" on compromise language that emphasized federal funds would not be used to pay for abortions.
i truly hope that it does not go towards this practice. I also completely do not understand why he is not allowed to express his views. There is plenty of biological evidence that what some want to dehumanize by calling a fetus is in fact a baby at a very early stage of development. I understand that some do not believe this and that our own supreme court has ruled on that side, but he is still allowed to have his own views and voice them.
on a side note, he will likely pick up 10% or so in his polls for doing this as the majority of Texas agrees with me on this issue. sadly, that is probably the real reason he did it.
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At least is isn't another blog.....err....wait.....yes it is. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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What does that have to do with anything??
i thought he was trying to show how democrats are now trying to denounce the 1st amendment right to free speech too?
did i miss something?
#gmstrong
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Maybe they should just cut to the chase here ... 51 % of eligible voters in that earn the least, will now no longer need to work. It's up to the other 49% of people to completely support them. If people jump to the non-earners bracket, that's just more votes for election ... and if we ever get to the point where those earning money and actually paying taxes can't afford to support eveyrone else ... oh wait, we've already been there! So, who cares! 
Good point. The way some people think, making more money means they will have to pay more for insurance. The same that goes on with subsidized housing, food stamps and every other freeloader program that attracts 60% of the democrats.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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A Texas Republican acknowledged on Monday that he was the person who yelled "baby killer" during Sunday's House debate on health care reform.
Civil rights icon and veteran Rep. John Lewis, D-Georgia, said anti-health care bill protesters Saturday repeatedly yelled the "N" word at him as he left a heath care meeting and walked to the Capitol.
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Missouri, released a statement late Saturday saying he too was called the "N" word as he walked to the Capitol for a vote and that he was spat on by one protestor
Protesters also hurled anti-gay comments at Rep. Barney Frank, D-Massachusetts, who is openly gay, as he left the same health care meeting that Lewis attended in a House office building.
prpl...It is kind of sad, in a way, to see the GOP continue to be led by the most radical faction of the radical rw fringe/tea partiers/bloggers..
Just when I thought the GOP could not get any more radical...they did this weekend. It has gotten to the "danger point" and I fear this kind of rw extremism could result in tragedy.
If the RW's elected leaders and talking heads continue to whoop up the base with their lies and misrepresentations, I fear some idiot might decide to act out.
Secret Service probing conservative blogger’s call for Obama assassination
Monday, March 22nd, 2010
The Secret Service is investigating a conservative critic of President Barack Obama who called for his assassination Sunday on Twitter.
Self-described conservative blogger and writer Solomon Forell called for Obama's assassination on the eve of House Democrats' passage of health care reform. "We'll surely get over a bullet 2 Barack Obama's head!" Forell Tweeted.
He added: "The Next American with a Clear Shot should drop Obama like a bad habit. 4get Blacks or his claim to be Black. Turn on Barack Obama."
As of Sunday evening, the Secret Service said they were “actively investigating.”
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GM strong...
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I listened to the first part of Rush today just for kicks and giggles. What he said truly freaked me out. Something along the lines of "We need to destroy those bastards." I wouldn't be surprised if the radical idiots really are going to attempt something tragic. 
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jc
Now that we have this massive spending bill that passed, it's time to start talking about real healthcare reform.
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Who cares? And what does it have to do with anything, and why are you directing it at me?
Were you actually trying to make a point somewhere?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That would be a negatory good buddy 10-4
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That would be a negatory good buddy 10-4
He's making a point....that hes a goof.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What has freaked me out is this abomination has passed. I was on another message board I frequent and had to lol when I saw someone declare 3/21/2010 will for ever be know as "Dependence Day".
#gmstrong
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What has freaked me out is this abomination has passed.
I was on another message board I frequent and had to lol when I saw someone declare 3/21/2010 will for ever be know as "Dependence Day".
I am going to steal that. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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So if some can "afford" health care by their standards, but in reality with other financial commitments they can't then they will fine them if they choose to ignore health care in favor of paying their bills, kids college tuition, elderly parents retirement home fees, child support, etc?
The only way that most people can afford expensive care (surgeries, chemo, etc.) when they need it is by the pooling that health insurance provides. For example, hospital stays can cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Hardly anyone can afford to pay this out of pocket. Unfortunately, no one can guarantee that they won't need these things. Which is more fair:
1. The current system, where 40 some million don't pay anything for insurance. If something bad happens, they go bankrupt. They still get the care they need, but can't always pay, and the costs are passed on to paying patients.
2. The new law, where they have to pay their share (even if subsidized, they still pay a portion out of pocket). Thus, they participate in the pooling that they then use if they get sick.
Choosing to not buy health insurance is getting the benefits of the system without paying into it at all. People have four years to plan for this; its not being dropped in their laps tomorrow (the mandate doesn't go into effect until 2014).
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They won't be needing to raise premiums, we are going to see an increase across the board soon to account for the 32 million extra people that need to be covered by the other covered that are and have been paying their premiums all these years.
How does adding 32 million more customers for insurance companies translate to higher premiums across the board?
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How about an incentive if I haven't used my premium for anything besides annual checkups, can I get a discount or refund?
Yes, you can opt out of current insurance and buy stripped down plans from the insurance exchanges. These plans will offer much fewer services but will offer catastrophic coverage. Thus, if you really only do annual checkups, you could save a lot of money. I would likely do this as well; the level of coverage through my work is way, way more than I need.
Last edited by tjs7; 03/22/10 08:14 PM.
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Good post tj.....except this Quote:
the level of coverage through my work is way, way more than I need.
God forbid you ever need it, but as the old saying goes....better to have the coverage and not need it then not have the coverage and need it.
Do people really need to have full fire coverage on their home and belongings??....most home fires don't destroy everything.
Some things aren't worth the risk....and it sounds like you have something going on. Don't get too carried away on scaling back the coverage.
At this point I have scaled back the life insurance....had several term policies when I still had a mortgage, kids of dependence etc....now I am more or less self insured except for a whole policy I carry on us to cover estate tax implications...don't feel comfortable turning that in to a term policy....that sucks, but it is what it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Life insurance, that's next. You'll be required to purchase life insurance that will pay the government upon your death totaling the taxes you would have paid had you lived another 50 years.
#GMSTRONG
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God forbid you ever need it, but as the old saying goes....better to have the coverage and not need it then not have the coverage and need it.
Do people really need to have full fire coverage on their home and belongings??....most home fires don't destroy everything.
Some things aren't worth the risk....and it sounds like you have something going on. Don't get too carried away on scaling back the coverage.
Yeah, you are right. It's not worth the risk. Without really thinking, I made an assumption that by opting out of coverage, I would get some of that compensation back in my wage. No way that would happen though.
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So if some can "afford" health care by their standards, but in reality with other financial commitments they can't then they will fine them if they choose to ignore health care in favor of paying their bills, kids college tuition, elderly parents retirement home fees, child support, etc?
The only way that most people can afford expensive care (surgeries, chemo, etc.) when they need it is by the pooling that health insurance provides. For example, hospital stays can cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Hardly anyone can afford to pay this out of pocket. Unfortunately, no one can guarantee that they won't need these things. Which is more fair:
I think you mistook my point. when I said "afford" health care, not as in ability to self pay medical care, but afford as in what wage scale the government will assign to determine if you can afford it without subsidies, without taking into consideration all the other expenses someone may have. A family making 88k a year sounds great until you take out the college tuition, child support, care of elderly parents, etc.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Sorry, my mistake. I thought you were making an argument for why people shouldn't have to buy health insurance.
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Can someone please direct me to the part of the bill where it is mandated that you buy health insurance or pay a fine? I have not been able to find it in the bill. I have read news clippings but I prefer to see it for myself.
#gmstrong
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Well, day one of socialist United States is in the books, and nothing is different. Well, aside from all the statues of Stalin and red flags that were mysteriously posted outside our homes. 
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Well, day one of socialist United States is in the books, and nothing is different.
Well, aside from all the statues of Stalin and red flags that were mysteriously posted outside our homes.
Keep praising your boy. When Ohio goes bankrupt, you'll be the first one complaining about him and wanting to run him out of office with the rest of his posse.
Edit: for Pdawg:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/22/AR2010032200410.html
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INSURANCE MANDATE: Almost everyone is required to be insured or else pay a fine, which takes effect in 2014. There is an exemption for low-income people.
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 03/23/10 12:46 AM.
you had a good run Hank.
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The effects are already starting in Colorado. Many businesses said they are going on a hiring freeze until they can determine the impact this bill will have on the economy.
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Just another thought...
If a person doesn't have coverage, the IRS will fine you $650(round number). The cost of a policy is in the several thousands of dollars.
With pre-existing conditions no longer grounds for denial, what is to keep people from opting for the fine until they shows signs of needing insurance??
Most illness isn't something that strickens you immediately. You usually have warning signs.
Most accidents are auto or work related where a different type of insurance will cover the medical costs.
I could seem large numbers of people who otherwise would have insurance just opting out until they started getting sick or reached the age where they figured them might get sick.
We all might as well just drop coverage because by law hospitals aren't allowed to turn you away. We might as well just get care for free....or now $650 a year...
I am sure the $650 figure was arrived at by the average size of tax refund checks to earners at the lower end...it's why the IRS is administering the process...they won't send you your rebate .
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Most illness isn't something that strickens you immediately. You usually have warning signs.
Not what happened in my case twice!
Went for a physical,,, just a physical.. I felt perfectly fine.. didn't even know I had an issue...
As it turns out, I had kidney cancer. 1.5 weeks later, I was in the OR getting my kidney removed...
6 years later, I was going in for my annual check up. each year, they examine the area around where the kidney was removed.. I guess they noticed something that didn't look quite right so they sent me for an MRI.
They found a Abdomanal Aeortic Anurism (sp)..
A month later, I was in the OR getting that repaired..
Sometime later, I found myself in need of a new health plan.. I joined AARP to get United Healthcare medical insurance..
I came to find that if you had ANY vascular issues,, you are disqualified immediately..
I wish it was as cut and dry as some of you guys think,,but having had to fight that battle,, I know it's not...
My point is, you can't count on knowing something is wrong.... it just doesn't work that way all the time.. it just doesn't..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Most illness isn't something that strickens you immediately. You usually have warning signs.
Not what happened in my case twice!
Went for a physical,,, just a physical.. I felt perfectly fine.. didn't even know I had an issue...
As it turns out, I had kidney cancer. 1.5 weeks later, I was in the OR getting my kidney removed...
6 years later, I was going in for my annual check up. each year, they examine the area around where the kidney was removed.. I guess they noticed something that didn't look quite right so they sent me for an MRI.
They found a Abdomanal Aeortic Anurism (sp)..
A month later, I was in the OR getting that repaired..
Sometime later, I found myself in need of a new health plan.. I joined AARP to get United Healthcare medical insurance..
I came to find that if you had ANY vascular issues,, you are disqualified immediately..
I wish it was as cut and dry as some of you guys think,,but having had to fight that battle,, I know it's not...
My point is, you can't count on knowing something is wrong.... it just doesn't work that way all the time.. it just doesn't..
Don't you understand that because your health isn't perfect that you don't deserve healthcare and that you deserve to be bankrupted? 
(I really hope you're not taking the above comment seriously, Daman, it's mean with pure sarcasm)
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I understand that...you could have waited a while to have the removal and got insurance before the procedure....at least under the new system. Actually, yours is a perfect example of how people could skirt the system. You can go from uninsured to insured in a matter of days. Now, if you had told us about your unknown brain aneurysm that suddenly stuck leaving you at 70% of normal mental capacity, then I would say that is a good example of why you might not want to gamble. You still going to therapy for that or are you as good as your going to get??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Tell them about the time you had a MRI on your head and they couldn't find a brain Daman
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If a person doesn't have coverage, the IRS will fine you $650(round number). The cost of a policy is in the several thousands of dollars.
With pre-existing conditions no longer grounds for denial, what is to keep people from opting for the fine until they shows signs of needing insurance??
The way I see this working is that in the new exchanges, there will be benefit tiers from expensive platinum plans down to stripped down, basic plans. I think the basic plans would probably be high deductible, cover some minimal preventive services like annual checkups, and protect from financial ruin in the event of an emergency. These plans would probably be cheaper than what your thinking of, on the order of $700 per year.
For example, I went here:
https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/quo...d=MedMutualOH+t
and typed in my zip code and age. I was quoted about $800 dollars a year for minimal coverage. To me at least, that would be close enough to the fine to warrant the extra $50 (the fine is $750).
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Quote:
Quote:
Most illness isn't something that strickens you immediately. You usually have warning signs.
Not what happened in my case twice!
Went for a physical,,, just a physical.. I felt perfectly fine.. didn't even know I had an issue...
As it turns out, I had kidney cancer. 1.5 weeks later, I was in the OR getting my kidney removed...
6 years later, I was going in for my annual check up. each year, they examine the area around where the kidney was removed.. I guess they noticed something that didn't look quite right so they sent me for an MRI.
They found a Abdomanal Aeortic Anurism (sp)..
A month later, I was in the OR getting that repaired..
Sometime later, I found myself in need of a new health plan.. I joined AARP to get United Healthcare medical insurance..
I came to find that if you had ANY vascular issues,, you are disqualified immediately..
I wish it was as cut and dry as some of you guys think,,but having had to fight that battle,, I know it's not...
My point is, you can't count on knowing something is wrong.... it just doesn't work that way all the time.. it just doesn't..
daman...you run a risk on this message board, if you even attempt to relate "REAL" life situations about how screwed up the HMO healthcare system is...many won't believe you and many don't want to hear it!
Some on this message board live in a fantasy world where they believe they are somehow exempt for the realities of life...
Most of us will get sick some day...and all of us will die some day...
GM strong...
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Quote:
I understand that...you could have waited a while to have the removal and got insurance before the procedure....at least under the new system.
Actually, yours is a perfect example of how people could skirt the system. You can go from uninsured to insured in a matter of days.
Now, if you had told us about your unknown brain aneurysm that suddenly stuck leaving you at 70% of normal mental capacity, then I would say that is a good example of why you might not want to gamble.
You still going to therapy for that or are you as good as your going to get??
Peen...tell me you did not say, "you could have waited a while to have the removal"
Daman explains he goes in for a routine physical, is feeling fine, but finds out he has "kidney cancer"...and you want Daman to wait?...unreal.
Obviously Daman's doctor did not share the same point of view...
It is interesting to read how others are willing to gamble with someone else's life...
...that is one of the core issues of the HC debate...many willing to gamble with the lives of the growing number of uninsured.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Here's something that always bugged me...
You have insurance to cover you in case you get a bad illness or something happens.
But, if you get said illness, they could drop you?
That's BS and I'm glad that loophole is closed.
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I said it....so what?? You need insurance, pay the fee and you are covered in a day or two.
Seeing as he is fine, a day or two more than likely wouldn't have mattered. I doubt he had it removed just hours before it would have turned in to a fatal growth.
I am not gambling with anyone. People who don't have coverage are the ones gambling.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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With pre-existing conditions no longer grounds for denial, what is to keep people from opting for the fine until they shows signs of needing insurance??
This has been a topic of a local radio talk show often lately. The host says there's no reason not to do it this way...and it would only make sense TO do it this way financially. So, until they fix this loophole, it's exactly what I'll do.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480 |
Since I am self insured too, I'll consider doing the same as well. Too bad I've put a descent amount away in my HSA account in order to cover the deductable; at least it was tax free.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
Quote:
Here's something that always bugged me...
You have insurance to cover you in case you get a bad illness or something happens.
But, if you get said illness, they could drop you?
That's BS and I'm glad that loophole is closed.
No one said the former system was perfect, in fact it was very flawed.
However, if you think this government invasion of health care is good, then more power to you. Hope you like the government option they put out there in a few years when they take over all health care from private businesses.
you had a good run Hank.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Health care "bill"
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