|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
This debate is going to carry on, so I might as well start a part 2 thread.
GO!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882 |
Quote:
It's not about trashing the kid's faith. It's about how the press have jammed him down our throats as being this "great guy" .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you are saying that he's not a great guy? do you know something that the rest of us don't?
Or
Is it that you don't like having that shoved down thier throat? And if that's the case, why blame the kid? He's just being himself,, blame the press...
Just sayin,, it's immature to name call the kid..
He may be the greatest kid in the world. I could give a crap. I'm not looking for a chior boy, I'm looking for a QB.
By the way, I'm not one of those out there calling him names.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Ammo, can I ask you why you are always so in love with these project QB's?
First Troy Smith nao Tebow?
Why?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21 |
Tim Tebow sucks cannot play QB in NFL, he'll be an H-back by year 3... Draft a pure passer like Tony Pike
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Portland, that was me that wrote that, not ammo and I know you weren't calling him names.. you were however defending it and that's the part I don't get.. See, my feelings are this.. if the Press makes a player out to be a goody two shoes based on him being a good guy... that's one thing. Pick on and call the media and writers anything you want.. I never have a problem with calling a writer anything...  But for anyone to take it out on the kid himself,, to me that's just really not smart.. JMO Quote:
He may be the greatest kid in the world. I could give a crap. I'm not looking for a chior boy, I'm looking for a QB.
Once again, I just believe that you are confusing the two issues..
If the kid is a good kid,, that's great... if he's a great QB,, that's even better..
Either way, it doesn't justify anyone commenting on his faith in a negative manner.. as I believe is the case with any poster that uses things like "gods Grandson' to discribe him.. (either that or they think they are Rome Clones)
But that's just me... I'm also the guy that doesn't like it when posters refer to players with twisted names,,, McFluff or McCushion etc... (rome clones again)
They have names, use them... JMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
When I see Tony Pike I just see DA 2.0.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562 |
Quote:
When I see Tony Pike I just see DA 2.0.
There were 2 QBs to play in the Sugar Bowl....set set BCS game and Sugar Bowl records that will probably stand for a good while and one did very little.
(Pike didn't set any records)
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562 |
Quote:
Quote:
It's not about trashing the kid's faith. It's about how the press have jammed him down our throats as being this "great guy" .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you are saying that he's not a great guy? do you know something that the rest of us don't?
Or
Is it that you don't like having that shoved down thier throat? And if that's the case, why blame the kid? He's just being himself,, blame the press...
Just sayin,, it's immature to name call the kid..
He may be the greatest kid in the world. I could give a crap. I'm not looking for a chior boy, I'm looking for a QB.
By the way, I'm not one of those out there calling him names.
If production is something you want, then Tebow has to be on the list.
I can't imagine taking someone who looks good but doesn't produce results.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
I have seen plenty of Pike's game over the last 2 seasons, not just the Sugar Bowl. Everytime I watch him play, I just feel like I am watching Anderson play. They both have similar builds, but its more than that. They way he plays/throws, his inaccuracies, big arm, etc... Telling you, he is Derek Anderson 2.0.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21 |
Your missing a big difference... If you watch Pike play he gets air under his ball even on short passes. He has the ability to put touch on the ball which is huge and something QBs like Tom Brady do... Its like a basketball player making a shot except dropping it in the WRs hands... After listening to some of his interviews he seems like a bright kid...Willing to learn with a better attitude and handles questions better than DA. Just because he has the protypical size like DA doesnt mean he'll be a DA.
This is something even BQ was unable to do... Both would throw rockets no matter the distance of the receiver.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Ammo, can I ask you why you are always so in love with these project QB's?
First Troy Smith nao Tebow?
Why?
Oh hai BpG. *inside joke*
My opinion is every QB is a project. Brady Quinn proved that theres no such thing as an "NFL ready QB." They all need to be developed properly. You need to look at intangibles and these guys have insane intangibles.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
Thats a problem with only being a fan, I cant go back and check the film...
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21 |
Here is a 10 min video of his high/lowlights and this is what really sold me on him... His mistakes are something that can be coached since he could sit behind delhomme and wallace until he's ready... With a mid round pick I think he's worth taking a shot on. http://www.youtube.com/v/Sv7qqIFAh5YThe play at 2:20 is impressive
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
He's not going to be available as a mid-round pick. He's going to go in the late 1st round, early 2nd round. And as Holmgren has said, "This year it would be pretty hard to use the second [round] pick to get a quarterback. It would be pretty hard for me."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
The play at 2:20 is impressive
Yeah, that was pretty impressive..
I"m no QB guru but it appears that he throws into tight coverage a bit.. DB's aren't going to be that slow in the NFL.....Just a thought...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
And as Holmgren has said, "This year it would be pretty hard to use the second [round] pick to get a quarterback. It would be pretty hard for me."
Yeah, he did say that, but a week before he also said that if you see the guy you want, you take him.... so I don't really know what to believe he'd do if we're up and Pike is there...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
That didn't impress me at all. Here's what I saw:
-- Mediocre accuracy.
-- Sub par arm strength.
-- A great offensive scheme.
-- No snaps under center.
-- No speed.
-- Very few progressions.
-- Very few difficult throws.
I don't think he got nearly enough zip on the ball. A lot of those passes aren't completions in the NFL with how long it took for the ball to get there.
I will guarantee you right now that the Browns don't draft Pike. He's slow, and not that accurate. Those are the two most important things for the WCO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I doubt he goes before the 4th, but he may go in the 3rd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
That didn't impress me at all. Here's what I saw:
-- Mediocre accuracy.
-- Sub par arm strength.
-- A great offensive scheme.
-- No snaps under center.
-- No speed.
-- Very few progressions.
-- Very few difficult throws.
I don't think he got nearly enough zip on the ball. A lot of those passes aren't completions in the NFL with how long it took for the ball to get there.
I will guarantee you right now that the Browns don't draft Pike. He's slow, and not that accurate. Those are the two most important things for the WCO.
I didn't see this clip, but those were my impressions of pike when I watched cincy's games... particularly the arm strength and accuracy issues. I can't tell when a system makes a qb good, but those raw talents seemed lacking to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Pike reminds me too much of Charlie Frye...not so much in how they play the game (Frye is MUCH more mobile) but in terms of arm strength/underdog prospect, etc. Too many negatives to overcome.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I think that based on talent alone Tebow should go in the 3rd or 4th but I think because of his name he will go 1st or 2nd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,478
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,478 |
To me, it looked like his receivers had to bail him out a lot. That Gilyard WR made a bunch of pretty catches.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
That didn't impress me at all. Here's what I saw:
-- Mediocre accuracy.
-- Sub par arm strength.
-- A great offensive scheme.
-- No snaps under center.
-- No speed.
-- Very few progressions.
-- Very few difficult throws.
For a second their I thought you were describing Tebow 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865 |
Quote:
That Gilyard WR made a bunch of pretty catches
LOL I thought the same thing.. maybe we should be looking a him as a pick......Really I don't know a thing about him,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Only difference is the speed factor. And Tebow has the girth to take a beating at QB unlike Pike.
cfrs: Big difference. Tebow has all-world intangibles. Not to say Pike has bad ones, but they are no where near the level of Tebow. Few players come close to matching up there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I think we have a little miscommunication going on, I agree with you about Tebow. I thought you were saying he would go in the 3rd or 4th round. I haven't compared anyone to Tony Pike at all in this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882 |
Quote:
Portland, that was me that wrote that, not ammo and I know you weren't calling him names.. you were however defending it and that's the part I don't get..
See, my feelings are this.. if the Press makes a player out to be a goody two shoes based on him being a good guy... that's one thing. Pick on and call the media and writers anything you want.. I never have a problem with calling a writer anything...
But for anyone to take it out on the kid himself,, to me that's just really not smart..
JMO
Quote:
He may be the greatest kid in the world. I could give a crap. I'm not looking for a chior boy, I'm looking for a QB.
Once again, I just believe that you are confusing the two issues..
If the kid is a good kid,, that's great... if he's a great QB,, that's even better..
Either way, it doesn't justify anyone commenting on his faith in a negative manner.. as I believe is the case with any poster that uses things like "gods Grandson' to discribe him.. (either that or they think they are Rome Clones)
But that's just me... I'm also the guy that doesn't like it when posters refer to players with twisted names,,, McFluff or McCushion etc... (rome clones again)
They have names, use them... JMO
I wasn't really defending the name calling as much as trying to explain where I thought the origin of the name calling roots itself. I don't think that people, when they call him God's grandson, are calling him this because he's a Christian. I believe they're calling him that because the press has made him out to be a saint. Semantics I guess. The name calling continues. I again don't get involved with it. "Interceptiverdie" has been the only twist on a name I've ever used. And that was many years back. I was a child doing childish things.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/PortlandDawg/banner.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Yeah, I was talking about Pike when I said that originally.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
J/C
Something for the pro-Tebow crowd to consider who hype him as a "winner"
How many of the biggest college winning QBs have made it in the NFL?
The biggest winners in the past 15 years I think would be the following in no particular order:
1. Tommie Frazier - best college player of all time in my opinion.
2. Ken Dorsey - most wins by a college QB until McCoy beat him out, but McCoy had extra games (NCAA added 12th game).
3. Charlie Ward - the best of the Florida State QBs from their ridiculous run.
4. Matt Leinart - best of the USC QBs this decade in college.
5. Jason White - actually, pick your Oklahoma QB of choice from this decade and put here (Bradford is TBD obviously).
6. Vince Young - he really doesn't belong on this list because of his 'short' time of greatness compared to the others, but that one year of complete dominance was really special.
7. JaMarcus Russell - unfortunately, if I include VY, I need to put LSU's champion QB on the list as well.
8. Michael Vick - sorry, I forgot about him initially, VaTech's greatest college player definitely deserves to be on the list.
Anyone obvious I left off? And before you say Peyton remember that he had a stigma of being a numbers guy in college who couldn't get it done and win a championship. In fact, until he won the superbowl, that stigma was still sticking with him. he wouldn't have been consider a 'winner'
But, initially from this list, it would seem only 2 have had ANY real success in the NFL (Vick and VY).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
Tebow has all-world intangibles.
Uhh, if they're intangibles how do you know they're all-world? Isn't an intangibles something that you cannot physically touch or measure?
In which case, how could you classify it/them as all-world? Or even all-NFL.
How's about we just say Tebow has the potential to be a good football player and then wait and see if he ends up all-world?....... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
In football, intangibles are basically defined as personality traits. Leadership, work ethic, and desire to win are all included under the intangibles umbrella.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
You're correct Tebow skills are infinite for he is Gods grandson. Therefore it cannot be measured by mere mortals 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562 |
You can say that about any qb.
if we go by your reasoning, qbs should never be taken before the 5th round.
I'll take my chances with a Tebow over a Pike or a Lefever.
Just think, we could trade away all of our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks every year and end up with a boatload of 5th and 6th rounders.
Sorry....it makes no sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
You're correct Tebow skills are infinite for he is Gods grandson. Therefore it cannot be measured by mere mortals
Exactly!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654 |
My opinion is that I don't like any of the QB's below Bradford, until LeFevor, Brown and Skelton. They all have something that raises a flag that would preclude a first or second round pick. I would start looking in the third. With 3 picks, there maybe a QB in one of them
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,562 |
The quandary of drafting a QB....do you go with a high choice which magnifies the bust factor or do you wait to lower the bust factor but bring in a guy with a low ceiling factor??
Me, if I was really looking for a starting qb, I wouldn't look past the 2nd round.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Who would you look for in the 2nd, peen?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
laugh all you want I am prefectly ok with us taking tebow...the dude can flatout play football...maybe we trade back into the second to snag him...but if not I would hope he drops to the 3rd...wont happen tho
#brownsgoodkarma
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,292
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,292 |
Quote:
Me, if I was really looking for a starting qb, I wouldn't look past the 2nd round.
agree.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Me, if I was really looking for a starting qb, I wouldn't look past the 2nd round.
That's a good idea peen, who do you suggest we look at in the 2nd round? 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Timmy Tebow Part 2
|
|
