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Depends, is it an Op-Ed piece or is it reporting on observable quantifiable facts?
Nobody says "I think he benched 225 35 times" they say "I think he has enough strength to play guard."
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Eh ... this is a message board. I pretty much take everything posted here as opinion, unless it is some quantifiable statement.
"Derek Anderson threw x interceptions this past season" = fact
"Derek Anderson sucks" = opinion
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Quote:
"Derek Anderson threw x interceptions this past season" = fact
"Derek Anderson sucks" = fact
Fixed your typo 
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Hey D, Pretty good. Taking as it comes ya know. Been a weird winter here. Colder than usual, and a lot more rain.
But back to MH, I understand that he's older. And as unlikely as it is, from a resume perspective, given his influence and past with the league it seems like he's lining up for something. Maybe not the commish seat. idk.
Not really sure what to think about Lerner handing the team over. Could be a very good thing. I hope it is.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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My opinion is that the less Lerner is involved in any decision directly related to the actual sport, as opposed to the business side, the better off this organization is.
I like Lerner as an owner. I despise him with an unholy, burning desire as a football shot-caller.  He's willing to spend whatever it takes to win and has proven he isn't about gouging the fans by raising prices just because the sport is popular. He also isn't into it as a way to get in front of the camera. On the other hand, he's made idiotic decision after idiotic decision in terms of who to hire, who to fire, and when and what to say regarding players and people. In that regard, he could be the worst owner in the league not named Dan Snyder.
As long as Holmgren isn't coaching, give him whatever power he needs. we're better off for it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah, we have friends that live in Crystal River..(north of Tampa on the gulf coast).. One of thier neighbors forgot to turn off the lawn sprinklers and ended up with an ice garden the next day.. funny pictures..
As for MH, I Don't believe that he's at all interested in the Commish job, and anyway, the guy that has it is a lot younger than Holmgren..., I'd say he wants another SB ring and sees a chance to get it his way here and vindicate himself from the way he lost the GM job in Seattle.. just a guess..
I couldn't be more happy that Lerner turned over the team over to holmgren... smart move IMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, there's Al Davis too....anyways, I like Lerner. He is the middle owner in town in my opinion. While he has made some mistakes with hires, he's not afraid to keep them on the payroll and send them packing. An owner that actually spends money is still far better than one without the savy or desire to spend **cough**Dolan**cough**.
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Great read. The more I hear from Holmgren, the more I like this guy, the more hope I have for this teams future. It may not happen next year or the next but you get the feeling this guy is a guy who can make it happen!
So I will sit tight and watch the festivities unfold in free agency and up next the draft and while I may not know the plans or the schemes that produce the overall results, I'm getting more and more confident the results will be positive and move us forward as a franchise.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
2 concerns:
1.I hope MH hasn't bit off a little more than he can chew
2. I wish RL was just a little bit more involved with his team,....just a little.
I want Lerner as far away from any football decision making as possible. Just let him pay the bills and collect profits. Especially with his buddies in his ear telling him what to do.
I'm not talking about RL making football decisions regarding the Browns but this was an "owners" meeting, and last i checked RL was the Browns owner.
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That is as good of a read as i have seen posted in quite a while. I enjoyed it tremendously!!!!!! 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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idk about MH lining up for a commish job...........I think he's just trying to line up his legacy. If he turns it around here, in Cleveland, at this moment in our history...............he will go down as one of the greatest football people ever. He would be the most popular man in Ohio easily. I think he wants to be thought of that way. Maybe I'm just naive 
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MH is a smart man, part of being a smart man is knowing when & what to say NO to and I believe he knows Commissioner is a NO for him. From the football side he would be a good fit, but from the legal side, I think he might pass on that head ack. What I like & admire about MH is his calmness, honesty, he respect he shows every single person, there is no I'm better than you coming from MH. The more I see & hear from MH the more impressed I am. Were in good hands.
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Quote:
Great read. The more I hear from Holmgren, the more I like this guy, the more hope I have for this teams future. It may not happen next year or the next but you get the feeling this guy is a guy who can make it happen!
So I will sit tight and watch the festivities unfold in free agency and up next the draft and while I may not know the plans or the schemes that produce the overall results, I'm getting more and more confident the results will be positive and move us forward as a franchise.
Tulsa, the bar has been set so low for this franchise the last dozen years that Holmgren will be hard pressed to look bad. Imagine the past GMs and browns coaches in that era were playing Horseshoes. I would say the first group ( Policy/Clark/Palmer) could not even hit the pit and were beyond horrible' blowing entire drafts. the Davis Garcia promised more but maybe scored a point or two but again were horrible drafting. The Savage Crennel promised to draft "Browns type players" and end the defeatism...they added to it. I initially mistook all the activity of Savage as actual acumen but he horribly overpaid for marginal free agents and payed Anderson a HUGE payday based on 9 games of excellence, then the Stallworthless deal made me outright question his sanity. I would say he had some throws so far from the pit you wondered what in the HELL he was up to. Then the Knee jerk hire of Mangini Kokinis some hailed as ManKok( they were half right). Who with their first trades and draft seemed to fit right in, they did get a ringer with the center and a point with the wr.
Enter Holmgren. I like Pashos (he scores a point on that) and the TE,( a ringer) ok about the LB( no points but in the pit) not so hot on the Wimbly trade( out of the pit )unless the pick becomes a SOLID starter at another position because that is what we lost. here i will add with Jake we are WAAAAAAY out of the pit and mike hit a bystander , on Wallace he is in the pit but no points, but OK since he was cheap. I was fine with Dumpin DA( point), but I hated giving away Quinn( again he hit a bystander). I love how Holmgren handles the press. he better get used to it because he has some trainwrecks behind center and that is where his flag is posted "The QB Guru". A guy with 12 games in three years traded for a Ham sandwich.....( if Quinn washes out and I am completely wrong about Jake MH gets a ringer). Also if hillis turns out to be a great back then another ringer....but so far I believe he hit bystanders with those tosses.
I figured you for a horseshoe man Tulsa, hope you enjoyed playin verbal horseshoes.
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Your analogies have to be the worst I've ever seen. There is no logic behind them. An analogy should make the subject matter easier to understand not cause me to have to read your post several times to decipher what you are trying to say.
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You actually read them once? 
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You actually read them once?
Yeah I need to stop reading as soon as I see 'ham sandwich'.
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I think that's why he saves them for the ends of his posts, now.
Last edited by oobernoober; 03/26/10 06:28 PM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Does anyone even play horse shoes anymore?
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a game of HORSE-shoooooes!
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Quote:
The Savage Crennel promised to draft "Browns type players" and end the defeatism...they added to it. I initially mistook all the activity of Savage as actual acumen but he horribly overpaid for marginal free agents and payed Anderson a HUGE payday based on 9 games of excellence, then the Stallworthless deal made me outright question his sanity. I would say he had some throws so far from the pit you wondered what in the HELL he was up to.
You forgot one of the biggest whiffs as a GM Joe. Mortgaging our future on a overhyped, horrible impersonation for a QB! I don't know how you could forget that one?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Quote:
You forgot one of the biggest whiffs as a GM Joe. Mortgaging our future on a overhyped, horrible impersonation for a QB! I don't know how you could forget that one?
is that anderson or quinn?
according to reports, anderson cost us a 1st and 3rd because we didn't deal him after his "probowl" year (our 1st back from dallas from the Quinn trade ironically enough and their 3rd).
#gmstrong
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Quote:
is that anderson or quinn?
according to reports, anderson cost us a 1st and 3rd because we didn't deal him after his "probowl" year (our 1st back from dallas from the Quinn trade ironically enough and their 3rd).
I think he's speaking of Quinn... any discussion of what Anderson could have brought is 100% speculation., As an example, look at Philly and McNabb.. a week ago, it was reported that they wanted a 1st round pick for him.. and 2 first rounders for Kolb...
Now we are hearing that they are willing to accept a 2nd rounder for McNabb..
Once the deal is done, then we'll know.. until then,, like I said, it's speculation.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Enter Holmgren. I like Pashos (he scores a point on that) and the TE,( a ringer) ok about the LB( no points but in the pit) not so hot on the Wimbly trade( out of the pit )unless the pick becomes a SOLID starter at another position because that is what we lost. here i will add with Jake we are WAAAAAAY out of the pit and mike hit a bystander , on Wallace he is in the pit but no points, but OK since he was cheap. I was fine with Dumpin DA( point), but I hated giving away Quinn( again he hit a bystander). I love how Holmgren handles the press. he better get used to it because he has some trainwrecks behind center and that is where his flag is posted "The QB Guru". A guy with 12 games in three years traded for a Ham sandwich.....( if Quinn washes out and I am completely wrong about Jake MH gets a ringer). Also if hillis turns out to be a great back then another ringer....but so far I believe he hit bystanders with those tosses.
I figured you for a horseshoe man Tulsa, hope you enjoyed playin verbal horseshoes.
Sorry Joe, not a horseshoe guy myself, more of a golfer.
Where you don't like the Wimbley trade, I think we got good value for an under achieving DE/LB that never really fit in the defensive scheme here. With only one decent rush move he's a marginal player at best. The Quinn trade is really stuck in your crawl for some reason and I don't know you so I don't know that reason but it certainly appears to be related to your refrigerator in some fashion.
In sticking with that theme, I mentioned in another thread that where Hillis may be a ham sandwich in your opinion but Quinn is a certainly a quiche. The ever breakable egg. 12 games you say, not enough time you say. Okay... Broken pinky, out for the season, foot injury, out for the season. One of the reasons he's had only 12 games is because he can't stay on the field. Given his output while he's been on the field, I didn't have a real problem with him being off of it. Could we have got more for him last year, probably, but that time came and went; now's he an oft injured inaccurate qb who may or may not establish himself as a future stater in this league. I wish him the best and hope for our sake he assumes the starter role for the donks. We get a better conditional pick if he does.
So open your refrigerator, only this time, leave the food alone and grab a beer, chill out and lets let the professionals do what they were hired to do and we'll see the results as time passes. We don't know all of what MH has in store for us but he's certainly an interesting, intelligent character that just may bring us the respectability and positive results we've all been craving since our return to the league.
#GMSTRONG
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All of the moves this off-season seemed to make sense. No huge surprise cuts/trades..... Pool : concussions Williams: overpaid Furrey: old,not that good Heiden: decrepit Quinn: bust, lisfranc Anderson: overpaid Wimbley: underperformed Poteat: easily replaceable/upgradable Lewis: old Fraley: replaceable in draft Hadnot: see above Acquisitions: Fujita: replaces Wimbley Ben Wallace: replaces Heiden Seneca Wallace: insurance policy Delhomme: starter for two years Hillis: the "big" back to replace Lewis Pashos: starting RT Draft picks: use to fill needs immediately and for future Best move: Pashos  Next best move: draft picks Worst Move: no back-up center, yet I just don't see how anyone can give a score on this off-season yet. I don't care if you compare it to horseshoes, tiddlywinks or deli sandwiches. PS: did I miss anyone?
Last edited by Line Judge; 03/27/10 08:36 AM.
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Quote:
Quote:
I've got zero issue with that trade.
Not saying I take issue with the trade either… Just that it’s curious… How does this move become “clear”?
KW was no top tear outside linebacker… .
But he wasn’t a “ham sandwich” either… hehehe …sorry…
I’m guessing a free agent acquisition or trade is on the horizon…
It always has amazed me how fans seem to look so far beyond our own roster that they don't even recognize why the Browns made the trade.
The answer won't come in the form of a trade or a draft pick and the guy that will replace KW is on our roster. "Marcus Benard" The guy is a STUD. And most of you seem to have missed it....Odd as hell.....
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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to piggyback off that.....
there are several O-Linemen on the roster that may have made Fraley and Hadnot expendable.
and has anyone noticed how many DBs that are currently on the roster? WOW
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Whimbley was more of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich .....
Oddly comforting ..... but soft and squishy .....
Never quite the worst thing you could find ..... but hardly the best either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Whimbley was more of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich .....
Please, someone throw AkronJoe off this site for starting this entire food fetish thingy..... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So no discussion about cookies or fish ? 
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not the most appetizing combination there
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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We got Ben Wallace? I would have thought we would sign Lebron first!!! 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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We got Ben Wallace?
I would have thought we would sign Lebron first!!!
yep, I boogered that one 
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Quote:
2 concerns:
2. I wish RL was just a little bit more involved with his team,....just a little.
i dont. I like lerner not being involved, lol.
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Quote:
Fujita: replaces Wimbley
What has Fujita ever done to cause you to believe he can be an OLB in the 3-4? I didn't see it that way when we signed him and I still don't. As a matter of fact, I'm not the only one.
_________________________________________________
Besides, Mangini said, if there's one area where the Browns have a surplus of depth, it's at linebacker.
''We were 5-11 last year and we have a lot of [positions] we need to address,'' he said. ''But at the outside linebacker spot, I like the depth we have in [Matt] Roth, David Bowens, [Jason] Trusnik and Marcus Benard. Scott Fujita has played there and David Veikune could potentially move out there as well. There's a lot of candidates there, so getting the third-round pick gives the opportunity to address other needs.''
http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/87726682.html
_________________________________________________
Fujita adds some depth with experience but he has done very little in his career to show that he has speed rushing ability. Roth on the other hand wowed the yell out of me!
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Delhomme: starter for two years
Yet another very debatable issue IMO. A lot of that will be answerred in the draft. If we use a first or second rounder on a QB I could envision JD being a one year starter and a strong veteran to mentor and work with our young QB during his second season here. If we draft a QB later in the draft, I think your opinion would hold more merrit. But the jury is still out on that one IMO
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Hillis: the "big" back to replace Lewis
But he has a lot better hands than Lewis.
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Pashos: starting RT
Woah now! lol
Pashos has stone feet. lol Yes, he's an upgrade to the low hanging fruit we currently have at RT but he's very slow and his footwork has slowed down a step. In many cases when RT's reach that point in their career they are moved inside to RG. From all projections he would be an above average G but would be a below average RT.
In a perfect world we'll move him inside as soon as we can get someone more capable to play RT than Pashos. Hopefully we'll see that addressed in the draft.
Quote:
Best move: Pashos
I hope not or we're in real trouble.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
"Derek Anderson threw x interceptions this past season" = fact
"Derek Anderson sucks" = fact
Fixed your typo
Now that's funny!!!!!!!!!
LET'S GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/OldSixty-Two/new0400001.jpg) [b]WOOF WOOF[b]
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he's an upgrade to the low hanging fruit we currently have at RT but he's very slow and his footwork has slowed down a step.
From everything I've read on the guy, he had been working improve his footwork and lateral movement while he was injured.
You also say" In many cases when RT's reach that point in their career they are moved inside to RG". How old is this guy? I was under the impression that he is fairly young. Also, don't some lineman improve over the years? Some develop, some don't.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
The Savage Crennel promised to draft "Browns type players" and end the defeatism...they added to it. I initially mistook all the activity of Savage as actual acumen but he horribly overpaid for marginal free agents and payed Anderson a HUGE payday based on 9 games of excellence, then the Stallworthless deal made me outright question his sanity. I would say he had some throws so far from the pit you wondered what in the HELL he was up to.
You forgot one of the biggest whiffs as a GM Joe. Mortgaging our future on a overhyped, horrible impersonation for a QB! I don't know how you could forget that one?
We will see after his stint in Denver. he had a "management" that wanted to keep him benchbound not to PAY escalators, a Coach that traded the best offensive talents and started a shot RB with yet another rookie OC, and a "turnstile" RT and journeyman RG. No I think you will see a "different" for you QB in Quinn. I agree that I lack your 100% assurance that the fault was all in Quinn, I am sure to see a different result in Denver. Having a Coach that tried to trade for you last year who has a top offensive mind and a team loaded with talent will bear far different fruit.
The question then will be answered which came first Quinn among Rotten fruit that helped him look rotten or Quinn who rotted the fruit around him here in Cleveland. a rotted Right side blocking, rotted play calling, rooted RB, rotted WRs, rotted TE but hey it was QUINN who was rotten, yeah right. Ahh here i go with my analogies, I won't try to teach lazy dogs new tricks.
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Quote:
he had a "management" that wanted to keep him benchbound not to PAY escalators, a Coach that traded the best offensive talents and started a shot RB with yet another rookie OC, and a "turnstile" RT and journeyman RG.
Yeah, and a partridge in a pear tree... Damn man, Get over it.. Quinn, for better or worse, is gone.. Outta here,, bye bye... GONZO....
Does it really matter about the sins (if they were indeed sins) of the past.. it's all yesterdays news..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yes, but yesterdays news may be the thing that makes or breaks the future for our Browns. I will say right now that Holmgren and company have not impressed me at all. Of coarse most of the kool aid drinkers are on board as always, but I am beginning to see trends of the past. Most of the moves made by this management team seem to be parallel moves or grabbing of former average players, and the lack of a big time FA at any position spells out another average to below average season to me. Some of you want so badly to buy the idea that this team is headed in the right direction that you will buy it at any price. Some of us are gun shy and will be cautious about jumping fully on board until there are results. Will I give Holmgrem a chance? Hell yes, he has allot more experience than anyone we have had in years. Does that mean he will be successful? Not one little bit!  And as far as the QB situation. 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
actually, I this was about the most passive I have seen this board about the QBs. many (including me) were completely against signing Delhomme.
Seneca is a little better in my opinion (though still a stop-gap), but he doesn't look like he'll even get a chance until Jake falters.
outside of that:
Fujita could be a slight upgrade at ILB. At best, he is the Keith Brooking who comes in and provides leadership and helps solidify our guys.
Watson should be an upgrade at TE and we still have our best from last year in Moore. But, I don't think anyone believes he'll come in and catch 70+ balls either.
Pashos could be an upgrade at RT. but, there are some that believe he's just as flat footed as the others we've had manning the position. i am hoping he's better, but we won't know until he's out there.
of course, there are some that are negative on every move, and others who are positive on every move, but most have been pretty fair I think.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren in charge (article)
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