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So far the Gocong trade is up to 6 or 7 pages. Will it make it to a part 2 like the Brady trade? Will we have AkronJoe calling out that we traded a peanut butter and jelly sandwich this time?




it seems to me that when Akron Joe is absent then DJ posts and vice versa.

I'm suspicious

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Gocong is definately the one who will be hit or miss....At worst he'll be ST'er...Although my Dango Found Homerism says differently...lmao...

The beauty of everything Holmgren/Heck r doing is bringing in BONAFIDE NFL STARTERS...And allowing us to go BPA at 7 and even at 38...And NOT have to go CB crazy the entire draft...4th and 5th round Corners are never anything more than Nickel/Dime Backs or ST'rs...Gocong's about the ONLY one picked up so far that may not START...But he'll definately play alot...

We're no longer FORCED to take Haden...Who I don't believe the Browns even have rated in their TOP TEN...Let alone 7...

This is really rather simple...I see one of 3 things transpiring...

If Berry is there at 7 we snag em...If not...
If Clausen's there we snag em...(IF WE LIKE HIM)(I DO)...Both won't be...
If both r gone...We go down to 12/13ish and take Thomas...MAJOR Secondary upgrades...

ASSume Rogers is history...Williams already is...2 HUGE contracts gone...Brown just got redone with SB money NOW...Lightens up the last 2 years...When this new Salary Cap comes out we're gonna be in a SUPERB position to make a long term run...The major hits are virtually GONE...And we won't be drafting inside the top 10 but maybe ONE more time (2011)...

But my HOMERISM says we won't be drafting in the top 25 as of NOW...lmmfao...

Browns pull off smart trade
April, 2, 2010

By James Walker
Unless the Cleveland Browns got extremely lucky, chances are they would not have landed two starters in this year's draft in the fourth and fifth rounds.


Drew Hallowell/Getty ImagesCornerback Sheldon Brown, acquired in a trade from the Eagles, fills an immediate need for the Browns.
For that reason, Cleveland made a very smart trade Friday with the Philadelphia Eagles to land veteran cornerback Sheldon Brown and outside linebacker Chris Gocong. Both players can be penciled in as starters in Cleveland's 3-4 defense.

The Browns shipped backup linebacker Alex Hall and a fourth- and fifth-round pick to the Eagles, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter. Cleveland has plenty of draft picks to spare, particularly in the middle rounds, and still has 10 selections in this month's draft.

Brown, who likely will get an extension with Cleveland, fills a major void at cornerback and moves the struggling Brandon McDonald out of the starting lineup. Gocong is a player Browns coach Eric Mangini liked coming out of college and has starting experience with Philadelphia, tying Gocong with current Browns general manager Tom Heckert.

The trade for Brown likely impacts Cleveland's draft plans in the first round.

The Browns are no longer desperate for a cornerback with the No. 7 overall pick, where Florida's Joe Haden was a potential target. Tennessee safety Eric Berry definitely makes more sense at this point if Cleveland has a choice between the two players.


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My feeling is this signals a trade down.


My guess is we have had teams send out feelers so we went ahead and got a starting corner knowing the chances are good we won't be drafting in the 7th slot.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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This slack might indicate trading down, if we feel position is already adequately filled. I want us to be, just like in baseball (not necessarily the Tribe, though), strong up the middle first. Berry might help in draft. Resilient corner we got isn't a shutdown, but should be an improvement. We may be able to do some real outside-the box re-thinking, because we are not done yet by a far cry. I have a hunch we are moving into a shift from best man available to go get the man you really want. Based on nothing but my intuition; but I see us addressing the core of the squads. Linemen next.


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it seems to me that when Akron Joe is absent then DJ posts and vice versa.

I'm suspicious




I understand why you feel that way, but truth is, Django uses paragraphs,,, AkronJoe wouldn't know one if it slapped him upside the head


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I understand why you feel that way, but truth is, Django uses paragraphs,,, AkronJoe wouldn't know one if it slapped him upside the head




True, and Django doesn't use 5 totally useless metaphors in every sentence the way Akron Joe does.


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This trade could just as easily indicate that the Browns are going to take a QB at #7 or higher if they need to trade up.

Or it could mean that the Browns believe the CB they were targeting will likely be gone by #7 and the Browns will be taking a safety, to help rebuild our secondary.

Or, if the CB the Browns were targeting and he is still available at #7, they take him regardless of the trade.

The point is...no way to read this trade and how it affects the Browns draft priorities. This move does give the Browns more flexibility in the 1st round, which makes it even harder to read...

So many needs...


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Or, if the CB the Browns were targeting and he is still available at #7, they take him regardless of the trade.






I agree with that. Some seem to think us trading for Brown means we will not draft Haden if he is there. I really dont see aquiring Brown having anything to do with that. Brown is a solid vet CB but that doesnt mean we wont need talented young guys going down the road. I would be pretty happy with Wright and Haden as our #1 and #2 corners and Brown and B-MAC as our nickel and dime corners. With the way NFL offenses are going with 4 and 5 wideouts you need 4 good corners.

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I agree with that. Some seem to think us trading for Brown means we will not draft Haden if he is there. I really dont see aquiring Brown having anything to do with that.




Exactly.

Just because we acquired a 31-year old corner, it means our draft strategy has drastically altered?

Balderdash. *L*

The only thing it does is make the potential selection of Haden one of BPA, not of need, should we choose to go that direction. Brown will be history as a starter in a year or two anyway. If Haden was our guy last week, he's our guy on draft day. If we had our hearts set on moving down and find a partner, that's what we're doing.

I do like that it gives us flexibility. I've always felt that we were prime candidates to move down because there is going to be one elite blue-chipper there when we draft at 7. If he's not the guy we really want, moving down is viable and still helps us. Do I think we'll move down? Not really because the odds are always long that it can happen, but I do think we're very open to the idea.


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To add a few more thoughts..it's also obvious that the Browns needed experience and better play in the secondary and it's what they're getting..
And everyone NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND the most important factor in this...McCream Puff is OUT as a starter!!!!


Now as far as the draft,it doesn't eliminate them from taking Haden if he's at the top of their board...but if he isn't and they want Berry ,they will try to get him.
I think right now S is the priority.
If not Berry I look for them to go after Thomas one way or another and still draft another CB/S somewhere in this draft.
Gocong..we'll see how he fits..low risk in my mind.

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Just because we acquired a 31-year old corner, it means our draft strategy has drastically altered?






BINGO...a 9 year vet, former pro-bowler is not a long term answer to the Browns secondary issues...BUT...

...it does give the Browns more flexibility when it comes to the #7 pick...it does not have to be a CB, now...but still might be a CB at #7...



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If not Berry I look for them to go after Thomas one way or another and still draft another CB/S somewhere in this draft.
Gocong..we'll see how he fits..low risk in my mind.




If we go after Thomas simply for the fact that we have a need at safety doesnt that kind of go against the BPA theory? I am not saying Thomas is not going to be good,or he is not going to be worth drafting at #7 overall but I just worry about us settling on someone just because we have a need.

Unless we truly believe the guy we are taking at S is a special,game changing, type of player I would rather pass and fill our needs at S in the second or third round.

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Notes on Sheldon Brown, Chris Gocong
By scoutsnotebook

by Tommy Lawlor, http://www.scoutsnotebook.com/

Cleveland Browns fans just picked up a couple of football players from the Philadelphia Eagles via trade. Here’s scouting reports on both players.

BROWN — 7-year starter at RCB. Lacks ideal size or speed, but has good man cover skills. Crafty veteran who knows every trick in the book and will use them. That will lead to some penalties, but he gets away with far more than he’s called for. Aggressive player, against the run and pass. Likes to anticipate routes and break on the ball. Will bite on fakes. Dallas has burned him a few times in the last couple of years.

Sheldon makes his share of plays. Had a career high 5 INTs in 2009. Broke up 17 passes, the 2nd highest total of his career. Can press and be physical or play off. Effective in trail coverage, although he lacks the ideal burst for that. Outstanding hitter and tackler. Has some real pop. Has landed big shots on Reggie Bush and Steven Jackson in the last few years.

Versatile defender can line up in the slot and even slide to FS in some sets. Good blitzer. Does everything on the field at full speed. Great effort. Tough guy. High character veteran player and a good leader. He did just turn 31.

GOCONG — Started at SAM linebacker the last 3 years. Played DE in college and was a very productive pass rusher at Cal-Poly. The move to LB has been mixed. Made excellent progress in his first couple of years there, but flat-lined in 2009. Very good run defender. Can be stout at the point of attack. Able to take on lead blockers and stuff them or hold his ground.

Good tackler. Does a solid job of working through trash to get to the football. Pretty good athlete. You see that a lot more on run plays where he’s just reacting to the offense and going for the ball. Coverage has been an issue. Isn’t natural in space. He looks mechanical at times. You can tell he’s thinking about things instead of just playing.

Much more effective when he’s attacking upfield. Very good motor. Runs pretty well. Has shown some signs of pass rush potential. Most impressive moment was when he used a good spin move to get off a block and sack Tom Brady in 2007.

Didn’t prove to be a natural fit for SAM in the 4-3. He was an effective starter, but that was his ceiling in the 4-3. Could be a quality player in the 3-4. Needs to be more of a pass rusher and attacking, edge LB. Smart guy and a high character player.


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Quote:

My feeling is this signals a trade down.


My guess is we have had teams send out feelers so we went ahead and got a starting corner knowing the chances are good we won't be drafting in the 7th slot.




If Washington doesn't take Clausen, it's possible the Bills might make a deal to move up to 7 if they feel we will take him or the Jags might try to move up from 10 to leap frog the Bills to get him, but that's only if he's there. I think the changes of Washington taking Clausen is very plausible.

The other possible move might be the Texan's at 20 wanting to grab Spiller before anyone else does but moving to 7 is awfully high for Spiller and they could probably wait a bit longer before trying to make that move.

I still think we take Berry if he's there and BPA if he's not. I don't think anyone's going to want to move into the 7 slot to trade with.


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True, and Django doesn't use 5 totally useless metaphors in every sentence the way Akron Joe does.




In addition, Django doesn't have a food fetish thing going on


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My feeling is this signals a trade down.


My guess is we have had teams send out feelers so we went ahead and got a starting corner knowing the chances are good we won't be drafting in the 7th slot.




I think our FO is doing everything they can to trade down. It was EM's goal last year, and I think the same applies this year.

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I think our FO is doing everything they can to trade down. It was EM's goal last year, and I think the same applies this year.




There are plenty of solid guys after the top ten,, so if you can snatch up a couple of them by trading down. I'm all for it. I really don't think there is anyone at the very top of the draft that will suddenly make us a contender.. we need way more than one guy...


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Quote:

Quote:

I think our FO is doing everything they can to trade down. It was EM's goal last year, and I think the same applies this year.




There are plenty of solid guys after the top ten,, so if you can snatch up a couple of them by trading down. I'm all for it. I really don't think there is anyone at the very top of the draft that will suddenly make us a contender.. we need way more than one guy...




I think I am looking at this a little differently.

It seems to me that we are filling needs so we can use that #7 overall to take the BPA. We can take the player that can be a impact player,at whichever position that is. If Berry is really comparable to a Ed Reed then he can be that,or maybe Hayden,or if one of the linemen drops to us.


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I read something awhile back about Joe Thomas always wanting to be a Greenbay Packer which I wouldn't blame him for as it is only natural to want to play for your home team. The question I have is under the current system I know you are able to place a franchise tag on a player after there contract expires but how long would a team be able to hold on to a player that desires to move on? Secondly not knowing what will happen after this season would it be wise to go tackle in this draft for the right side and if it comes to pass that Thomas left for whatever reason then we would have his replacement in house and familiar with the program?

I am not trying to start a whole will he go or won't he debate because I am not pretending to know what he really wants and I hope he stays for his whole career.I am only speaking in the hypothetical right now. Plus that gives us two great tackles. Along with Mack at center.I like it.

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I still think we take Berry if he's there and BPA if he's not. I don't think anyone's going to want to move into the 7 slot to trade with.




The number 7 offers a lot. It offers players capable of being good starting NFL left tackles. It also could possibly offer Jimmy Clausen. I definitely think we might be trying to trade down but I do agree that Eric Berry could possibly be our target.

I think Berry would make our team much better, but I wouldn't mind trading down and may be selecting a lower 1st O-lineman. Then again, I don't mind taking another tackle at number 7, period.

If we picked up Trent Williams or Buluaga to play bookend on our right side, we'd be a lot better also. With Cocong and Brown, we covered some positions on defense that are question marks. Upgrading the RT position would really benefit everyone on offense. Our running game improves and our passing game improves.


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I don't think it alters the plan...if we stay at 7 and Haden is our guy, we take him. I won't have a problem with that. It's hard to have too many solid DBs on a football team.


All I am saying it might mean the Browns have received some possible trade feelers and wanted to be a position by adding Brown to be able to do so without leaving the position barren.

FA is when you address needs....I know this isn't a FA deal but it serves the same purpose, we traded for areas of need and keep the draft more in tune with what Heckert has said he likes.....being able to draft the best guys and not being forced to aim at a position to fill a need.


I guess in the end, I see us trading down a bit and getting a 2nd for the effort...then trading two of the 3rd rounders for another 2nd rounder.....that would give us a 1st, three 2nd rounders, and a 3rd rounder....if we did that...the rest of the draft is simply a exercise.


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Quote:

My feeling is this signals a trade down.


My guess is we have had teams send out feelers so we went ahead and got a starting corner knowing the chances are good we won't be drafting in the 7th slot.




It is all starting too make too much sense !
I kind of hope you are right!



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Quote:

Quote:

My feeling is this signals a trade down.


My guess is we have had teams send out feelers so we went ahead and got a starting corner knowing the chances are good we won't be drafting in the 7th slot.




I think our FO is doing everything they can to trade down. It was EM's goal last year, and I think the same applies this year.





I have been saying this,,, I know we are more than one player away... I have a feeling we will do the same as last year... We just need a team to play with us... Buffalo(Claussen), JAX(Claussen) if he is there, which I think he will be.

Lets Look at it this way

STL..... Bradford unless we try to move up... Unlikely

DET.... They honestly can go two ways DT or OT... need protection for Stafford

TPA .... DT

WASH... They can go two different ways. I believe they go OT Sammuels retired....

KC.... They can go three ways.... OT....S..... or WR, (unlikely )

SEA.... This is whee I am lost, They suck on passing D,,, So this is where Berry could end up.

CLE..... Claussen here with a Trade from BUF, JAX,, or Texans for Spiller..

Crap shoot..... But alll things are still in play

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If we go after Thomas simply for the fact that we have a need at safety doesnt that kind of go against the BPA theory

If U mean is he value @ ?
I would say no..a tradedown would easily net him...he's the second best safety after Berry,so if they deem it so,I really don't have a issue with it.
My feeling is that S is the prime target right now.

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Excellent trade

2 starters for a back up LB...& 2 lower picks who would sit the bench and probely not see the field unless it's on specials teams, & we have enough special team players, an some good ones at that.

nice move FO.

As for what it does for the draft, to me nothing, even if we go CB with # 7, no team ever has enough quality CB going into the season, someones always getting bumped up, quality depth wins games in this leauge, starting 16 games is a tuff chore these days.

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I'm always in favor of trading down. No matter who is available when we pick.

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If you think that's cheap, cool...I'm not saying it's too much...it's the going rate for even an AVG starting-CB in this league..




So that would mean you basicly have no point at all regarding Brown.



The double talk is so thick you could cut it with a knife. Are you trying to be Skip Bayless or Jim Rome. either way, you ain't cuttin' it.

And Goceng? Heckert drafted him in the 3rd and gave up, what would appear to be a fifth more or less to get him. Yeah I'm going to trust "your opinion" of the guy. Jeesh.

Did you ever think he was playing out of position? Do you have any idea if they plan on playing him at ILB or OLB? Didn't think so.



This is exactly the kind of BS that has caused so many posters to go elsewhere. Rant and rant just for the sake of ranting when there's simply no reasonable cause to.

Good luck.................


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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think our FO is doing everything they can to trade down. It was EM's goal last year, and I think the same applies this year.




There are plenty of solid guys after the top ten,, so if you can snatch up a couple of them by trading down. I'm all for it. I really don't think there is anyone at the very top of the draft that will suddenly make us a contender.. we need way more than one guy...




I think I am looking at this a little differently.

It seems to me that we are filling needs so we can use that #7 overall to take the BPA. We can take the player that can be a impact player,at whichever position that is. If Berry is really comparable to a Ed Reed then he can be that,or maybe Hayden,or if one of the linemen drops to us.


KING




IMO there are only two guys we want at #7 - Bradford & Berry. After those two I get the feeling there are about five guys we'd be happy with. If B&B are off the board, I fully expect us to trade down and I won't be the slightest bit surprised is we move down multiple times - just like last year.

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Troll..........and a waste of time.




He is not a troll He has been on here for years but only recently has been so negative about everything.




HHHSD?

Holmgren-Heckert-Hater-Syndrome?


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Now here's the question I want ALL OF YOU bashing me to ANSWER:

Do you rather have S.Brown for 2-3years (max till 2012) AND Gocong for 2010 (that's his contract we have under control...not that we needed more but just stating facts)

OR

A 3rd and 4th round pick in 2011 you have under control till 2014+ the tender year (the max value of the picks we gave away) AND 2-3 more years of developing Hall




I'd rather have Gocong and Brown than those two picks and Hall.

I can't believe you are putting this in a way that makes it sound like you think Hall is a good player, when he couldn't see the field on a team you say is manned by the handicapped.

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If you think that's cheap, cool...I'm not saying it's too much...it's the going rate for even an AVG starting-CB in this league..




So that would mean you basicly have no point at all regarding Brown.






No, my point was, as I wrote "that's the going rate"...should have added "for FREE AGENTs", which he was for us (since he wanted the deal re-done)...ALL FAs get overpaid...with 5-7mil Brown is easily in the top 3rd of starting CBs....and if you think that's where his play is at, you know less about the league than even me suspected you to know

Quote:

And Goceng? Heckert drafted him in the 3rd and gave up, what would appear to be a fifth more or less to get him. Yeah I'm going to trust "your opinion" of the guy. Jeesh.

Did you ever think he was playing out of position? Do you have any idea if they plan on playing him at ILB or OLB? Didn't think so.




Which part of "he got replaced by an undersized 7th round rookie" didn't you get?
...and who's talking about MY opinion of the guy....I've given you guys numerous arguments HOW THEIR FO and fanbase think about Gocong....they clearly didin't want him anymore...they believe Hall has better chances or at least more upside (since they ALREADY know that Gocong sucks, hey they saw him for 4 years)...now that's debatable but it's clear they have closed the book on Gocong...he was a bust

For the personal BS: get a life and talk football...it's not about me, as much as some of the tards on here (didn't think you're part of them until now) want to paint me as the board devil....I'm giving more arguments in each post of mine then some on here in a week.....ingage the argument and don't attack the one making them...it's how grown ups debate...if you can't, don't reply or keep playing in La-La Land


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No, my point was, as I wrote "that's the going rate"...should have added "for FREE AGENTs", which he was for us (since he wanted the deal re-done)...ALL FAs get overpaid...with 5-7mil Brown is easily in the top 3rd of starting CBs....and if you think that's where his play is at, you know less about the league than even me suspected you to know




You do not think that Sheldon Brown is in the top 3rd in NFL Starting CB's?

I think that 90% of Eagles fans and at least half of the NFL would disagree with you. I challenge you to name enough players to show me Brown is just an average CB as a starter.


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Oh hooter, aren't you the other poster that carried a quote of mine in his sig that would make him look "sss...silly" now?

Spineless hacks ...and still got the bones of attacking me, hilarious

but thanks for questioning the answer....


#gmstrong

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You are referring to the quote saying you would trade the entire offseason to get Sanchez.

It did make you look silly. It was a ridiculous take. You have yet to say anything dumber. I took it off because the season was over, and it was time to move on.

As i told you last year, it's too bad because stuff like that takes away from some of the other points you put out there that are pretty well thought out. You are trying way too hard to sell your opinion, and make it impossible to take you seriously.

Don't worry though, nobody takes me seriously either. Probably because I post nonsense when I'm drunk. I don't really think you are Lt. Dangle.

I do suspect you are a good friend or relation of our old buddy, Phil Savage.


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Phil Savage. Who drafted Alex Hall.

Phil Savage. Who now works for the....Philadelphia Eagles.

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Quote:



For the personal BS: get a life and talk football...it's not about me, as much as some of the tards on here (didn't think you're part of them until now)




DJ,

you have been name calling all over this thread. Too bad if you can dish it out but can't take it.You have been , somehow, given a free pass on this thread and should have been given a time-out long ago.

Seldom do I get into wizzing contests here,but I just had to comment on your hypocrasy.

Now for football....

Since Brown can also play free safety there is the leverage to get Haden in the first.We still need 2 more DBs anyway. Either 2 safeties or one CB and one safety.It'seasier to get a quality FS later in a draft,so get a SS early and the FS later and keep Brown at CB.

Of course there could always be another trade with all those picks still available. We still need a back-up center.

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Here goes:

#Better

Revis
Woodson
A.Harris
W.Allen
Finnegan
Asomugha
Winfield
Samuel
C.Bailey
J.Jospeh
L.Hall
DRC
N.Clements
M.Jenkins
T.Newman
B.Flowers
C.Webster

that's just 17 here out of 64 starters..and most of the following I'd rather have than S.Brown, esp. considering age


#Debatable, but mostly younger with more years left

I.Taylor (bad year but overall he's there)
Trufant
Wright
T.McGee
C.Tillman
A.Henry
Jenkins
R.Marshall
A.Cromartie
T.Porter
J.Greer

#S.Brown-level imho

Q.Jammer
A.Goodman
Bodden
Springs (that S.BRown in 2-4 years)

...that's the tier I see him fitting...after 28 CBs that are mostly better and younger...with most of the following "upside"-tier I'd ALSO rather have the next 2-3 seasons

#Very young and probably better in 2 years, probably even next year:

V.Davis
S.Smith
D.Butler
M.Jenkins (Saints)
Bartell
D. Foxworth
T.Williams
A.Talib
McKelvin

Is that enough....and I'm sure I forgot someone....I know the league inside out, you should not have started this but thanks for the "challenge"


#gmstrong

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Quite honestly Django, you are reaching on a LOT of those guys. I know a Philly fan who I have a lot of respect for. He understands why they made the trade, but he isn't happy with it. Brown was very good until late in the season when he pulled his hammy.

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A lot of the ones that you listed as better than Brown are arguable like Malcolm Jenkins, Corey Webster especially Asante Samuel who a lot of Philly fans would have traded rather than Brown.


you had a good run Hank.
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Again, I'm not saying it was a horrible trade for us...it was probably dumber from their part....but imho overall it was a "LOSS-LOSS"

They foolishly opened up a need at CB with nobody waiting to take over because they were not willing to dish out the $$ to Brown despite being a PO-contender...for only 2 mid rounders

We wasted those same mid rounders who imho would have been better used to either trade for next draft picks or a pretty solid prospect in round 3 in this year's draft...for a aging CB we have to overpay and at best can hope for 2 years of league AVG production...despite being a NON-contender the next 2 years

Yeah...the Eagles DID worse...but that doesn't mean that WE did GOOD....you get my point? It's a LOSS-LOSS...just because Philly had the bigger loss doesn't mean we're better off because of it.....I could care less about the Eagles


#gmstrong

"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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