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Here's my question...
I feel like the general consensus is that Eric Berry would be the best pickup for the Browns...If not....its who i want more than anyone in the draft.
Chances are that he wont be there at #7, as Seattle, KC, and TB all have been linked to drafting Berry in mock drafts all over the place.
So...where are we going to have to trade up to?
and what will we have to give up to get there? Thoughts? Ideas?
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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The Browns will not trade up for a safety. The draft class is too deep at that position. There are guys who will be drafted in the 3rd round and be starters in the league.
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we could take hayden and then either trade back into the first and snag taylor mays,or cross our fingers and hope he drops to the 2nd and take on of the top "S" avalible...then trade back into the 2nd and select Colt McCoy to be our QB wouldnt be a bad way to spend 3 picks
1:Hayden
2a Taylor Mays
2b Colt McCoy
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if we don't get Berry in the 1st.. I'll take Morgan Burnett in the 2nd/ 3rd.
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in a division where we have Polamalu and Ed Reed...I think the chance to draft an Eric Berry is the move that could do like the Jets did...make a move and get a player that immediately legitimaizes the teams unit (in this case the defense)
Yea mays, haden, and such players could make the defense better...i think Berry would make it elite.
How can we get him.
is it too much to give up a 3rd to move to 5?
a 2nd to move to 3?
what if Seattle wants him and we decide to make a move? what do we give up?
Im asking what would we have to give up to get him....not what else can we do.
I think that if we dont make a move to get Eric Berry we're making a mistake.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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well, once upon a time we had to give up a 2nd round pick to move up one spot in the top10 to get Kellen Winslow from Detroit.
i think that is probably about what we would have to give up and there are enough good players in this draft and we have so many holes to address, that I just think that is too much.
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I think Berry falls to us.
Seattle will take an OT, Derrick Morgan or Dez Bryant. If they want a top safety they will take Thomas at 14.
TB - Bradford, Suh, Okung - 2 will be taken in the top 2 so Suh or McCoy goes 3rd.
The place to worry is the KC pick. I don't see it myself. I think Pioli will value other positions more highly. He will take a LT before a safety. I think Dez Bryant could go here as well. No predicting for sure but I my feeling is Berry is more likely than not to be available.
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KC is the team that scares me the most but supposedly, Pioli dont like drafting safeties high.
I have no idea what direction Seattle is going to go in.
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1st String
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Quote:
we could take hayden and then either trade back into the first and snag taylor mays,or cross our fingers and hope he drops to the 2nd and take on of the top "S" avalible...then trade back into the 2nd and select Colt McCoy to be our QB wouldnt be a bad way to spend 3 picks
1:Hayden
2a Taylor Mays
2b Colt McCoy
but, it would be a horrible way to spend an entire draft....
in this scenario, to get mays, we'd be giving up our second, a third and a 1st or second next year. then, to go up again to get mccoy, there goes either the rest of next years draft, or most of this years draft....
we'd spend at least 6 picks for those 2 guys, which is just a terrible idea. chad jones, major wright, nate allen, myron rolle.....lots of guys that we could simply use a 2nd or 3rd on (or later).....
mays may be fast, but he changes direction like a mack truck. easily the most overrated DB in the draft imo, and will soon find himself watching WR's run away from him to dance in teh end zone.
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All Pro
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Quote:
in a division where we have Polamalu and Ed Reed...I think the chance to draft an Eric Berry is the move that could do like the Jets did...make a move and get a player that immediately legitimaizes the teams unit (in this case the defense)
Can't argue against picking Berry if he falls, but if he doesn't, it's not the end of the world.
I don't see these guys trading ahead of 7, IMO it's much more likely these guys try to move up for another second, or late first. There are a lot of really good players in that range.
Looking at the guys in that 20 - 50ish range, there's just a lot of different ways to go that would make me happy.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Quote:
I think Berry falls to us.
Seattle will take an OT, Derrick Morgan or Dez Bryant. If they want a top safety they will take Thomas at 14.
TB - Bradford, Suh, Okung - 2 will be taken in the top 2 so Suh or McCoy goes 3rd.
The place to worry is the KC pick. I don't see it myself. I think Pioli will value other positions more highly. He will take a LT before a safety. I think Dez Bryant could go here as well. No predicting for sure but I my feeling is Berry is more likely than not to be available.
+1...Seriously doubt Pioli takes a Safety in the top 5...Comments or not...
Go Browns!!!
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There is only 1 team I think could mess up the Browns.. and that is the Redskins..
They could fall in love with McCoy and take Berry in the 1st, and McCoy in the 2nd... Talk about screwing up the entire Browns big board.
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Quote:
in a division where we have Polamalu and Ed Reed...I think the chance to draft an Eric Berry is the move that could do like the Jets did...make a move and get a player that immediately legitimaizes the teams unit (in this case the defense)
Yea mays, haden, and such players could make the defense better...i think Berry would make it elite.
How can we get him.
is it too much to give up a 3rd to move to 5?
a 2nd to move to 3?
what if Seattle wants him and we decide to make a move? what do we give up?
Im asking what would we have to give up to get him....not what else can we do.
I think that if we dont make a move to get Eric Berry we're making a mistake.
Big mistake?
I don't understand this premise with drafting Cb, S, WR, and LB in the top 10..its not smart
your most likely picking in the top 10 because your OL and DL are utter garbage....BOTH are true for the Browns
The Browns right side of our Ol is a turnstile
our DL outside of Rogers is old and garbage
our short list at #7 should be DL Suh, DL McCoy, OT Okung
one of those 3 above will be there, and all three of them address a NEED this team has BIG TIME
with a Solid Front 7 and a Solid OL you can win with later round picks at CB and S....
I personally think Okung has the best chance of being there for us at #7 and will be a great pick and a great player...you can't go wrong with OL
Go Okung #7 Move Pashos to RG
in the 2nd draft your McCoy, Tebow, <insert QB name here>
then your got an OL
LT:Thomas
LG:Steinbach
C:Mack
RG:Pashos
RT:Okung
now you got a good OL to run behind and protect your young QB and you can have a chance to actually win some games for a change,
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Quote:
your most likely picking in the top 10 because your OL and DL are utter garbage....BOTH are true for the Browns
Can't argue with that. Although both lines stepped it up towards the end of last season.
I don't think anyone would be upset if we took OL in the 1st round.
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Quote:
our short list at #7 should be DL Suh, DL McCoy, OT Okung
one of those 3 above will be there, and all three of them address a NEED this team has BIG TIME
Suh was this board's top wishlist guy until it became apparent that he was going to be a top3 pick and we started winning games to close-out last year.
There are some concerns that McCoy wouldn't fit in the 3-4. Also, he likely will be gone.
Okung also will likely be gone. Can't remember the last draft where the first OT went as late as #7. It's possible, but I don't think it is likely. And, since I think he won't be there, I would prefer to trade back into the mid-teens and get a guy like Anthony Davis instead.
I won't complain if we draft Okung, Buluga, or Davis in the 1st round.
(also, Rubin is not old nor is he garbage. I agree that we need to inject youth in our DL outside of that though)
#gmstrong
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I don't think Suh fits in the 3-4 either.
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Quote:
I don't think Suh fits in the 3-4 either.
i'll admit that i am likely biased because i ended up seeing a whole bunch of his games here in big xii country. but, he was so dominant that i just can't imagine that we couldn't use him at DE and let him wreak havoc.
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j/c
Here is how I had the top 7 in my most recent mock:
1. Bradford
2. Suh
3. McCoy
4. Okung
5. Bulaga
6. Berry
7. Haden
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But isn't the point of a 3-4 DE to hold up the blockers and let the LB's make plays? If anything that doesn't seem like it is worth the #7 pick in the draft.
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Quote:
But isn't the point of a 3-4 DE to hold up the blockers and let the LB's make plays? If anything that doesn't seem like it is worth the #7 pick in the draft.
by general definition. yes. which is why I railed on KC last year for taking Tyson Jackson #3 overall last year.
however, for the same reason that many here want Shaun Rogers moved to DE is that if you have a 3-4 DE who can penetrate and do more than occupy blockers even when double-teamed, he opens up so much more in your standard and blitz packages. i think Suh can be such a player. if not, then no, he would not be worth a top10 pick.
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That's more of the nose tackle's job. A lot of ends are asked to make plays. See Richard Seymour having a 10 sack season.
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What do you think about Haden now that Brown has been acquired?
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I doubt it happens, but I'm struggling to come up with options.
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Quote:
What do you think about Haden now that Brown has been acquired?
Couldn't Brown be moved to Safety and clear the way for Haden essentially solidifying both needs?
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Brown, to me, would signal that they'll maybe take a late corner.
On the other hand, it would suggest that the Browns will either move up or down. I'd imagine they'd move up for Bradford and down for Earl Thomas?
IDK, but I can't see the Browns staying at 7.
you had a good run Hank.
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I guess he could, but why would we want him to? He is still a successful NFL corner. And it's not clear if Haden is worth our 1st round pick.
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Quote:
Brown, to me, would signal that they'll maybe take a late corner.
On the other hand, it would suggest that the Browns will either move up or down. I'd imagine they'd move up for Bradford and down for Earl Thomas?
IDK, but I can't see the Browns staying at 7.
WHY???
If Berry's there...And he very well may be...Don't let MOCKS tell u differently...U SNAG HIM...
If Clausen's there???...U RUN TO THE BANK AND LAUGH ALL THE WAY...
Both WON'T be...U STAY AT 7... in this scenario...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
our short list at #7 should be DL Suh, DL McCoy, OT Okung
I don't understand all this love for Okung all of the sudden. It does not seem like it was that long ago that many on here felt he was not RT material. Now he is? Has he ever played RT? Why draft a guy at #7 to be a project? We already have JT at LT, I know most would not want to move him to RT. Please explain.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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j/c I simply think todays signing means we aren't "backed into a corner".  It gives us some wiggle room if Haden isn't there. The more positions we can secure now, the more options we have on draft day to draft more on the basis of talent than need. Williams at 290 and Bulaga at 290 are both a little light in the pants for a RT. I really like Bulaga too. Sure we can bulk them up a bit but are the MH's "type" of player? That I don't know. I like Anthony Davis as a RT but at #7? I highly doubt it. What we can do now is about anything we want to do. Our secondary isn't as much of a glaring weakness allowing us to look at value more than need there if the situation isn't right. I look at it as giving us more flexability and possibilities. How we use that situation is anybody's guess.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
Brown, to me, would signal that they'll maybe take a late corner.
On the other hand, it would suggest that the Browns will either move up or down. I'd imagine they'd move up for Bradford and down for Earl Thomas?
IDK, but I can't see the Browns staying at 7.
WHY???
If Berry's there...And he very well may be...Don't let MOCKS tell u differently...U SNAG HIM...
If Clausen's there???...U RUN TO THE BANK AND LAUGH ALL THE WAY...
Both WON'T be...U STAY AT 7... in this scenario...
I love Berry but do not expect him to be there @ 7.
Clausen I do not want him at all.
you had a good run Hank.
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Pit - Per http://www.draftcountdown.com/Rankings/OT.php Bulaga and Williams ard 314# and 315# respectively. B&B - I think most of us feel Okung is better suited for LT. I also think most feel he will be long gone. LT is a top 2 need for Det, Wash, KC and Sea. I see no way the consensus top LT falls to us. So the point is moot. cfrs15 - A lot of people on here question the fit for Suh in a 3-4. And I am not sure but I think Nebraska played a lot of 3-4. Even if they didn't they had their d-line play with those principals. Suh wasn't asked to be a penetrator. His job was to read and react. And still he made all those plays behind the line of scrimmage. Suh can play in ANY defensive scheme and thrive. Some other random thoughts: Trading for Brown does not preclude drafting Haden. Brown is no spring chicken. We still need a young Cb. In my mind what the acquisition of Brown does to our draft plans is make the decision between Berry and Haden much simpler. And it makes the thought of trading down and missing on Haden (and Kyle Wilson) much more palatable. As for Clausen, I am not really interested in drafting him. I am not an ND hater and I have no football "facts" to support this opinion. Just a gut feeling.
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I dont think big mistake...
but look at Pittsburgh defense without Troy Polamalu, its mediocre at best. With him its an elite unit. Id say the same for Ed Reed and Baltimore. I just think that Eric Berry would do the same for our defense.
I think Okung and McClain would also be great picks for us. but not as Elite as Eric Berry. I think he would give us the Mark Sanchez wow factor. With Sheldon and Wright, and Elam (who would look better because of it) and Berry our secondary matches NYJ.
Our OL i think is ok with Prok Chop and Pashos. Also we can draft a later guy like Mike Johnson for our OL. Look at our biggest needs and where we can address them.
Berry in the first...also Earl Thomas if we can move down...our secondary is still not very good. Its improving and Berry makes it elite. Thomas makes it better but not elite.
We can get OL in the 2nd - 4th...
We can find DL in the 3rd - 5th (see Ahtyba Rubin)
Eric Berry is a game CHANGER...the other guys make us better, but they arent game changers. Thats why I say him. and we have enough late round picks to give up to make a move for him.
Or what if we gave up DQ and a late pick to say TB or KC...and i think we become an elite D.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I still do
The Steelers are good because of that very good 3-4 Front 7..it MAKES Polamalu....
The Steelers collapse last year wasn't justbecause of Troy...Aaron Smith (Their Best DL) was hurt most of the year, this effected Harrison and woodley who had trouble getting the pressure they normally get.
Troy Benefits from a very very good Steelers pass rush...the Steelers Front 7 harrasses QB the entire game...this allows Troy to do what he does.
our Defensive Front 7 is trash outside of Rogers....Rubun is an above average DL but other then that...we have no other game changing Front 7 players.....
This team needs a Julius Peppers, a Reggie White, and Greg Lloyd type of impact front 7 player...that wreck havoc in the backfield...we don't have that...
Berry is not going to help with that..when the Qb has 7 seconds to throw the ball forget about it....Berry's college team the Volunteers has a pretty god defensive front 7 down there...he doesn't do it all alone...
if the Browns even had an average front 7 i wouldn't mind taking Berry, but the Browns front 7 is awful.....
If McCoy or Suh is there...takem em...if not you go Okung and finish fixing the OL then next year you can focus very heavy on Defensive help.....
You have to have a good OL and D Front 7 to win consistently in this league...the Browns have neither.....
an OL of:
LT- Thomas
LG- Steinbach
C-Mack
RG- Pashos
RT- Okung
means we will be able to protect our QB and run the darn ball with hillis...this alone will help our defense alot in itself...
if we can get Suh or McCoy imagine
DE- Rogers
NT- Rubin
DE Suh/McCoy
with Coleman and others as depth...then DQ, Okung, and Fajita can actually roam around and cause some real havoc on D......we need help on both of our lines desperately..it doesn't make sense to take a safety....
Eric Berry is not going to help our run D which is garbage, and you can't play Berry in the box the whole game...
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I got mine here................ http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings...........But it was updated and reflects exactly the numbers you have now. I honestly believe that the top half of the first round is kind of high for a RT unless we drop down though. RT's don't require quite the same skill set as your LT does with a right handed QB. A LT for a left handed QB is much more like your RT. (see Kevin Shaffer for a refrance) lmao So I'm of the opinion that if we drop down we'll get "their 1st" (whoever they turn out to be) lol and another high pick with which we could draft a RT. I mean even if Berry is gone at #7 we could drop down to pick up Taylor Mays if Berry is gone at #7. Seems to me in our situation trading down and getting another high pick would make more sense than moving up to get Berry. And IMO Mays is one monster of a S. jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I disagree KOB. I think Polamalu is what makes that front 7 that much better.
I certainly see your point. But, when he was out, they didn't have a S back there who could take away so much field. So, they had to drop guys back, maybe not be as aggressive with the rush.
With Troy back there, they can send everything and the kitchen sink, knowing he is fast enough and good enough to clean things up.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
I disagree KOB. I think Polamalu is what makes that front 7 that much better.
I certainly see your point. But, when he was out, they didn't have a S back there who could take away so much field. So, they had to drop guys back, maybe not be as aggressive with the rush.
With Troy back there, they can send everything and the kitchen sink, knowing he is fast enough and good enough to clean things up.
Bingo. I resisted it for a long time ... made excuse after excuse because I didn't want to admit it ... but Polamalu is one of the best football players I have ever seen. This past season was nothing but a season long confirmation of that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
I disagree KOB. I think Polamalu is what makes that front 7 that much better.
I certainly see your point. But, when he was out, they didn't have a S back there who could take away so much field. So, they had to drop guys back, maybe not be as aggressive with the rush.
With Troy back there, they can send everything and the kitchen sink, knowing he is fast enough and good enough to clean things up.
I know it appears that way, but its not.
Aaron Smith is the BESt 3-4 Defensive End in football. He is where Richard Seymour was 4 or 5 year ago... the guy is bar none the best 3-4 DE in football right now... Casey Hampton clearly lost 2 steps last year..
when you lose a player the Caliber of smith on your Defensive Line coupled with a clearly run down Hampton..the Front 7 suffered badly...
The Steelers never got the pressure they did once Smith went down...Smith is every bit as vital to that Defense as Troy is...Smith helps them to control the LOS and penetrate into the backfield...this allows the OLB (Harrison and Woodley) to get the match ups the need to bring pressure....
Most of the Steelers sacks come from rushing only 5 guys...they can do this because of smith....losing Smith last year decimated them....
I am not saying Troy is not a good player, I think Troy is a Top 2 safety in this entire league...but in terms of 3-4 ends Aaron smith is probably the best...losing a guy like that is vital to the success of your 3-4 DL and that was a dagger in their heart...the guy can flat out play but never gets any recognition...
I know its not flashy, i know its not "sexy" but the Browns must fix their OL and their DL before they do anything else or its pointless.....
if Okung is there ya take him..your happy with joe Thomas aren't ya? well then whats the big deal...
I think Okung has the best chance of being there at #7 and its the smart pick to make....
this will allow us to "impose our will" on teams at the LOS in the running game and for once in the last 10 years we won't have to put 100% of the game on the back of our QB
The Okung pick will look real good come november and December when were cramming the ball down the Steelers throats on the Ground with Hillis and Harrison controling the game and keeping our D rested and fresh...
I can just see our OL and DL need help badly...i would prefer McCoy or Suh because they would have instant impact...both those guys can penetrate and are stout against the run and would allow DQ, Fajita, Roth, and Gokong to just run around with reckless abandon.....
I think we could get Taylor Mayes in the 2nd and I am really high on the kid...he will be great value and the kid can flat out play.....
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
I dont disagree with ya KOB...my wonderment upon these statements...
what if we make a move and grab berry (and give a up a 3rd or 4th) and in the 2nd round we grab a tackle, like an Iupati (to move to RT or play RG and let Pashos be RT)), or Anthony Davis...or another guy who has superb upside on the right side of a line.
I think...youre undervaluing Pork Chop and Pashos as a viable right side...will it be the best OL in history...no, but it will be very much good enough to become a very good OL in the AFCN
i think Berry and a 2nd rd Right side OL looks better to me than Earl Thomas, or Taylor Mays and an Okung...
you take our DL...and go Coleman, Rubin, and Rogers (providing he isnt suspended) and i think thats a very good DL...plus Mosley and were ok.
I know solidifying the lines is a high priority with you, and i agree...but i think theyre better off than it seems.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323 |
your entire idea hinges on pashos playing guard, something he is merely projected to do....since he's started at every level at right tackle. he's too slow to pull, which is his main knock....foot speed. a bruising run blocker though....
now, since okung will absolutely not be there...see the mcnabb trade, then we're certainly not reaching for bulaga if berry or haden are there. calloway could come in and start next year at RG, and we'll assess pashos then.
berry, haden, morgan are in play. mcclain is an afterthought as well, given we're now sitting on 12 linebackers on the roster. 1st pick is defense, as there's no offensive players that project the value that the defensive guys have at the top.
i wouldn't be completely against okung if he's there, but thats some expensive insurance. we'd have the best, and most expensive offensive line in the league.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198 |
If Berry is gone you hope to find a trade partner and trade down a few slots and draft Iupati. If you can't find a trade partner to trade down you take Iupati with the 7th pick. I think he's the best OL in the draft and for arguments sake the next best OL behind Okung. Iupati would fill an immediate need at RG and possibly move to RT if Pashos doesn't pan out or gets injured.
LT Thomas
LG Steinbach
C Mack
RG Iupati
RT Pashos
If we take Berry with the 7th pick I would still love to see the front office trade back up and select Iupati. Berry and Iupati are the two players that absolutely must be Cleveland Browns...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) the most likely way to get Eric
Berry in Cleveland
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