DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum the Offseason So Far

Considering the trade for Gocong/Brown was most likely the rumored trade, I figure the Browns are done moving players/picks until the draft. Since it appears that our team is set until the draft I figured it would nice to review all of the moves made by Heckert, Holmgren, and Mangini.

Additions/Re-signings:

Scott Fujita: Most likely an ILB and probably going to be our defensive captain. May have overpaid a little but as Toad said:”if you got nothing in the cupboard you pay a little extra for bread.” Or something along those lines.

Tony Pashos: It was clear to anyone with eyeballs we needed to upgrade our right side of the line. I know a lot of people see him as our RG but I honestly think he was brought in as our RT. I think Tony’s position will really depend on if we draft a G or OT in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Benjamin Watson: One of my favorite moves of the off-season. He is almost twice as good as anything we had last season. I think Watson was under utilized in New England because of Welker and Moss and the Browns offensive scheme will lean heavily on its TE.

Seneca Wallace: We basically traded a 6th or 7th round draft pick for him next year and even for a backup QB that is cheap. Until we signed Jake Delhomme I thought Wallace was going to being a shot to be our starter. Unless Delhomme gets injured or totally stinks it up in preseason I doubt Wallace has a chance to be our starting QB.

Jake Delhomme: We paid a high price for this guy and we won’t find out it if it was worth it until about midway through the season. The one thing that can’t be argued is, that Jake Delhomme led a team to the Super Bowl and was an above average QB. Was last year a glimpse of the future or was it an aberration? Can’t answer that question until we see him play. I think this is a boom or bust move.

Peyton Hillis: I remember him when he played the Browns during Quinn’s first start. I believe Hillis was brought in to be a HB/FB hybrid for us. If we want to go big we line up with Hillis and Vickers. If we want some pass catchers we go with Hillis and Harrison.

Sheldon Brown: Played well last year until he pulled his hammy. He will be our starter opposite of Wright and will push McDonald into our nickel. I like this move because it allows more options with our draft picks. Joe Haden is no longer a must have (If you believed he was in the first place) and it allows our former starting CB to go to the nickel. To me Brown was worth a 4th because of the options he has opened up.

Chris Gocong: Was horribly miscast in a 4-3. I already feel he is an upgrade over Wimbley as he uses more than 1 pass rush move and will be stouter against the run. Hopefully being an OLB in our 3-4 will allow him to focus more on pass rushing (his strength) and less on pass coverage (his weakness).

Josh Cribbs: Not really an addition but solving his contract should have helped his deposition and it shows other FA’s if you perform you will be rewarded. Cribbs is a fan favorite and will be in Cleveland for the next 3 years at least. I hope Josh continues to be our KR/Wildcat guy for awhile.

Greg Estandia, Ray Ventrone, Billy Yates, Marcus Benard, Blake Costanzo, and Chris Jennings: Decided to lump these guys together cause they are depth/special teamers. However, three players stand out to me in this group. Marcus Benard and his sack on Big Ben, Chris Jennings somehow getting the corner on Pittsburg D, and Blake Costanzo for seemingly being on every special teams play, tackle, or turnover.

Departed:

Brady Quinn: Two plays made me realize we needed to get rid of Quinn. I believe it was against Baltimore when the Corner sat on a hook route as he had no fear of Quinn throwing deep. The other play(s) was when Quinn was trying to throw a hail mary but couldn’t get the ball to land in bounds even the MNF announcers were commenting on it.

Derek Anderson: Was totally inconsistent and was unable to deal with pressure from fans and opposing defenses. I feel bad DA was booed while he was injured and I thank him for that 10-6 season, however, it was clear he was due too much money and needed to be cut.

Jamal Lewis: Old, Slow, and I’m glad he’s gone from the organization. He had 1 good season and had a very similar career arc with the Browns like Rueben Droughns.

Kamerion Wimbley: Was a high class person but was pretty much a bust. Had a great rookie season with 11 sacks then everyone learned he was a one-trick pony and was never really effective again. IIRC Most of his sacks and pressures last year were due to the scheme .I was honestly shocked we got a 3rd for him..Thanks Al Davis. It’s too bad that Romeo picked a pass rusher (Wimbley) or a run stuffer (Ngata) when Savage asked him.

Hank Fraley: Was somewhat surprised we cut Fraley as we have no C’s on our roster besides Mack. Fraley came to the Browns and did an admirable job. He was never an all-pro but he was a good Cleveland Brown. Heckert did trade Fraley to us, so it shouldn’t have come as a surprise when Heckert decided to cut Fraley.

Donte Stallworth: Never really had a chance to impact the team. The biggest thing he did was hurt Edwards foot. Looking at his contract, his arrest, and the history between Heckert and Stallworth it was no surprise he was cut.

Draft Picks:
Round 1: No. 7 overall
Round 2: No. 38 overall
Round 3: No. 71 overall
Round 3: No. 85 overall
Round 3: No. 92 overall
Round 5: No. 134 overall
Round 5: No. 146 overall
Round 5: No. 160 overall
Round 6: No. 177 overall
Round 6: No. 186 overall
Still have a ton of draft picks. If Bradford is not picked 1st overall I honestly think we trade up with the Lions or Bucs to select him.


Favorite Move: Getting Rid of Quinn/DA
Least Favorite Move: Cutting Hank Fraley
Biggest Question Mark: Jake Delhomme
Biggest Needs: QB, CB/S, OG/OT
Most Improved: Linebackers (Gocong and Fujita)
Browns First round pick is: Eric Berry

Sorry for the wall of text but it’s been a busy offseason.
Did I miss anything? What’s your favorite move? Least favorite Move? Biggest Question Mark? Biggest Needs? Most Improved?

My favorite is still the first one we made: Signing Fujita.

He's going to add some much needed thunder into the middle of the defense. He'll be a godsend for DQ.

We are a playmaker and a safety away from being a pretty good defense, IMO.

Favorite Subtraction: Getting Rid of Quinn
Favorite Addition: Ben Watson/Sheldon Brown
Least Favorite Move: Not too sure yet, I'll get back to you on this one.
Biggest Question Mark: Jake Delhomme
Biggest Needs: QB, CB/S, RT
Most Improved: Defense
Browns First round pick is: Traded down and we select Earl Thomas.

Good thread, and I agree with pretty much everything.

With the signing of Brown, I wouldn't list CB as a need though. I think Mcdonald will be a good fit for the nickel. What was once a big weakness, is now looking decent. And if Berry were to fall to us, that is a pretty damn good secondary if you ask me.

It sucks that the biggest question mark is the QB position though. But if Delholme can return to pre- tommy john surgery form, Holmgren will look like a genius.

It has been an exiting off season, and I can't wait for the draft.

just a thought...

Billy Yates can play Center or Guard...so theres that depth

I'm hoping that in time, we'll all agree that the biggest aquisition was Mike Holmgren,,,,,

Thanks for the summary Loki. I had forgotten all about Watson.

Lets take a look at the Browns this way:

Offense:

Qb - improved
Rb - improved
TE - Improved
Oline - improved
Wr - No change (hopefully improved because of experience and an off season)

Defense:

Dline - minimal change (you can argue worsened or at least loss of some depth)
Lb - improved
Cb - improved
S - no change

This is all before the draft. Improvement in 6 areas, no change in 2 areas and a slight worsening of 1. If we get Berry then safety is taken care. All we will need is help at Wr and to find some youth to prepare to take over for the older veterans in a couple years (most important being a Qb in this years or next years draft) and some depth.

I really think we are going to be significantly better in 2010 than 2009.

Great summary, Loki and I agree with your assessments 100% (why else would I think it was great? LOL). Delhomme, to me, is sort of the make-or-break move. I don't expect to contend next year, but he needs to be a competent care taker or things could get Ugly with a capial "Ugh!"

Nice post, good to be able to look at the bigger picture.

Favorite Move: Agreed on the QBs, those two guys had to go. Definitely an upgrade.

Least Favorite Move: I didn't like losing Fraley either, especially this early. If a G was brought in or drafted and beat him out I'd have been more on board with this.

Biggest Question Mark: I'm not sold on Pashos at all. Going to need to do a lot more with the right side.

Biggest Needs:DBs, OL, QB, WR.

Most Improved: Gotta go with TE here, Watson is really underrated around here by some. I remember that guy killing us a couple years ago. Great speed.

Browns First round pick is: Clausen. I only recently found out he played through a broken toe last year. All over this guy if he falls.


One thing not mentioned here is Roger's legal problems and ankle. If he's not going to be around, or at full speed we have a problem. I definitely expect this to get addressed with one of the 3rds.

Been poking around CBSsports.com trying to figure out our draft. I think those rankings are pretty realistic.

Quote:

---

Jake Delhomme: We paid a high price for this guy and we won’t find out it if it was worth it until about midway through the season.

---

I think we will know by game 3, and I think we will be happy.

Favorite Move: Watson. I think this guy will pay huge dividends in the passing game. He's not a Winslow ..... but he's a pretty good receiver with decent size/speed combination. Huge upgrade from last season, and a spot which I do think hurt the passing game last year.

Least Favorite: I dunno ..... probably Fraley. He was a popular guy ..... but I can't get all that worked up over cutting a guy backing up 2 spots. I think he did what he was "supposed to" do, and helped Mack on his way to becoming a solid guy for us.

Biggest question mark(s): Game changers. Will we find any? It's hard to win in the NFL without players who can swing momentum back in your favor. I really feel that this was an area that was lacking last year. (Duh moment there, huh?) We have some guys with potential .... but as someone famous whose name escapes me now once said .... "Potential just means you haven't done a damn thing yet".

Biggest needs: We still need a lot. QB, WR, RT, RG, DE, LB, S, CB.

Yep, that's a lot. The good news is that this is a deep draft, and we have 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds. The brain trust should be able to find some game changers in that mix.

Most improved: QB. I mean .... it would be almost impossible to get worse. 49% completions for 128 yards/game with 11 TDs all freakin' year? Average (or at least the 16th ranked passing attack) was 218 yards/game with 21 TDs. Averagewould be a tremendous improvement.

1st round pick: I really am hoping for Berry .... but a little voice is whispering that a trade down and Earl Thomas are in our future. I also expect Colt McCoy to be our next QB, and that he'll get time to grow into the role while Delhomme holds down the fort.

Big surprise: I think that Wallace will see significant time in special offensive packages, especially some packages with Cribbs on the field at the same time.

Thanks Loki,....very nice.

Nice Post Loki... As in reviewing the offseason as we do usually every year...This one to me actually has a different feel to it...By that I mean the team has a President who has put people in place that has made alot of us a little more comfortable with some of the decisions that have been made..

Not saying all agreeable...but I tend to not panic as much as before... Im taking the approach as to the wait and see...

I pretty much have to agree on your points in your post...The biggest question mark being J. Delhomme..I tend not to consider that as a Big ?... I look at QB`s like Farve & Werner...Even Brees....The chance to keep their careers going by joining a new team...With successful results...

Lots of fresh air without the Quinn , Anderson controversy... MH states he does`nt like QB controversies.... I hope that stands true between the 2 we have now....

We`ve seen players let go that we respected highly... and some not so...

So imo...this offseason has been like many of the others... I just have a little more confidence in the decision makers.... Now I`m JACKED up for this draft.... Hopefully we will have a great review on that

Favorite dump(s): glad we wiped the QB slate clean.
Least favorite dump: Hank Fraley, a hard-working player who can play multiple positions on the line. Don't like this move.

Fave acquisition: Ben Watson and Fujita. Watson is a pretty good TE and Fujita will improve our LB play, which last year was pretty bad. The more I think about it, the more I like getting Shelton, even it's only for one or two seasons of good ball (hopefully).

Favorite Move: Starting over at QB was necessary, but I still like the recent trade the best (Brown, Gocong). Seems like we gave up very little for 2 starters who will give badly needed veteran leadership. Love it.

Least Favorite Move: Fraley. Versatile smart guy would have been a good backup and mentor.

Biggest Question Mark: QB. I love the Delhomme signing because he will be the perfect mentor for.......?...?.... I hope he has at least one good year of play in him for 2010 but even if he doesn't I still think it was a good move.

Biggest Needs: S, WR, OL, QB

Most Improved: Corner. We still have a need at corner but it isn't gaping like it used to be. Veteran presence will also help Wright and McDonald.

Browns First round pick is: Mc Clain I would love to have Bradford or Berry but I just don't think they will be available for a good price.

Favorite Move: Acquiring Brown at CB
Least Favorite Move: Depending on Jake Dehomme as starter
Biggest Question Mark: Jake Delhomme
Biggest Needs: QB, S, RT
Most Improved: Defensive backfield
Browns First round pick is: Trade down and draft Earl Thomas or Taylor Mays
(I think Berry will be gone)

Any way you slice it, I believe adding Brown and being able to move McDonald back to nickel/dime CB improves our secondary a lot. Yes we still need a S but CB isn't as pressing as it was.

I like Fujita and Gocong which will help at the LB position but I don't see either as nearly the impact overall as the signing of Brown.

As I said, I believe Berry will be gone at #7 and with our needs, I could see moving down for Thomas or Mays and getting another quality pick as the best way to address our needs and still provide us a top notch S we need.

jmho

Positives: Royal is back to the bench or maybe off the Team as ben watson was a big pickup.
Brown: a solid CB will allow us( I hope) to keep MacD as a nickle corner and help tutor him. I still say the kid has real talents, also allows us to go for SAFETY first in the draft.
Pashos: While jus a little above average that by Pushing the Immoble st. Clair to the bench was immensely needed and important.
Dumping DA: he was such a bad player and had so horribly regressed that even his staunchest supporters could not defend him without looking INSANE.
Goking/Fujita these two will send Barton to the bench.

Curious: Jake: a Qb who had played absolutely terrible his last dozen games who had throw the same number of TDs as Quinn and TRIPLE the INTS add he is 35 and costs 7 MILLION and this move mystifies.
Dumping Wimbley for a third, a late third where you are lucky to get a starter. While Wimbley was not going to be a star( something I had oft repeated and bashed for) he was at least solid. But maybe Gokong or somebody else( it won't be hall).
Dumping Quinn for a Ham sandwich: we gave away a guy who had 12 starts, was a #1 pick for NUTHIN. Adding a journeyman in Wallace made me feel no better. getting a rb who rushed for all of 50yrds last year was such a steal. IGNORANT!

Paying Cribbs: Excellent!!!! All the guy has done is make multiple Pro Bowls and is our best player and we had Dawn "low ball" Aponte gave him a take it or leave it nuthin offer before she failed to check that Mangenious was no longer her boss. she was shown the door rightly so by Holmgren.

Dumping Paycheck Stallworthless: this guy made me realize that Savage had no clue. he had bilked three previous teams for big contracts into believing in his "potential" and after celebrating his signing bonus getting tanked with ( who else but Bad Braylon) he kills a person and his season and , well ,gets PAID for it!!!!!
I hope he stinks as bad for the ravens but Ozzie was the first smart GM as he basically paid this bum an INCENTIVE based contract, so he will have to EARN his money. So he got about 15 or so Mill in Cleveland for about 17 catches. and we were low balling Cribbs. That is the kind of top flight front office moves we have witnessed.

I pretty much agree with everything and I think the first post is very thorough and well written.

That all said- and regarding Ben Watson- it seems like we're all overlooking one name: Evan Moore. (excuse me if someone *did* bring his name up and I didn't see the post.)

Can *anyone* say *anything* bad about Moore? This guy came in off the PS last year and DOMINATED the position. He caught acrobatic passes, had insane YAC many times, he made people bounce off him like he was made of granite. I'm sure there was more than one, but I only remember seeing this guy drop one, or possibly two, of the passes that were thrown in all the attempts made his way. It was obvious, wtahcing the guy play, that he's a competitor. Kinda reminds me of Todd Heap or Heath Miller or Ben Coates. Mark Bavaro when he was good? Dare I say Brian Brennan???

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think this dude is a flash in the pan that looked good filling a gap. I think he's the real deal, and I was hoping to see a lot more of him this year. He did excellent in all games he appeared in.

Seems a lot cheaper an alternative to paying $$$$ for a FA, but oh well. I can only hope Evans makes it to #2 on the depth chart and seeing him play if Watson gets hurt (which, of course, is not something I want to see).

Anyway, the kid's a badass. Just sayin'.

Ageed aboutb Evan Moore, BUT with his injury history, & the chance to get a player like Watson we needed to make the move, Moore will be a valuble back up seeing plenty of play time if he's for real and can stay healthy, I think thats the main question mark everybody has about the kid. I for one am rooting for him, great hands, runs a desent route, but still learning, & with putting in a new system we needed a veteran TE to help JD.

Moore looks like a promising kid. He had 12 receptions in 5 games ... with 6 of those coming in his very first game. He had no TD catches however. I did not get to see a couple of the later games .... so I do not knwo how he was from a blocking perspective.

He shows some definite promise, but I feel much better having a proven players at the position. There is also a chance that we'll see some 2 TE formations with moth Moore and Watson on the field. That should drive defensive backfields crazy.

Quote:

---

”if you got nothing in the cupboard you pay a little extra for bread.”

---

I always thought the government bailed you out. It's free with food stamps.

Maybe the NFL can hand out LB stamps to teams less fortunate like Cleveland.

I don't know if any of us know what the team has in Moore,, but for sure,, he's got hands and he's a big guy..

I like the fact we got Watson and Moore to learn behind him.

Good thread.

To avoid repetition and repeating what others, who I agree with, have said, I see us keeping Mangini as coach as a possible positive offseason move. Not sure if it will work out. For all we know Holmgren really is just waiting for HIS guy (coughFoxcough) to become available. Or maybe the drama queens in the media will be proven right and Homgren himself will eventually grace the sideline. But for now, I see keeping Mangini as a positive because it is so much less of a shakeup of our excuse for a foundation. I think it really could provide some serious stability to what Holmgren is getting started here.

Daboll? Ooof, that's a different story . . .

Well guys I forgot something.

Departures
Rex Hadnot: Completely forgot about this guy. He really never impressed me and I forget he was released. He was a backup center who actually took some snaps in NFL games IRC. I don't think we lost much with his departure.


** All credit goes to Line Judge for reminding me we cut Rex Hadnot

When Holmgren came in here I was dead-set against any move to shake-up the coaching staff. And I was relieved when we got news that everyone was staying put.

I think our coaching staff can get it done. Even Daboll. I think that it is important for the team to grow together. And I think that a first-year coordinator is going to make some questionable calls. But I think by seasons end Daboll was calling plays and winning.

I didn't mind us trading for QB's. IMO, Quinn was a huge MISTAKE from the part where Savage picked up the phone. I think DA would have been better off if we never picked BQ. I think DA will have a better career than Quinn from here forward.

I think that Watson brings some consistency and credibility to our TE position. I think that Jerome Harrison might finally get his shot at being a feature back in the NFL, and its going to be an exciting season to see what he does with the opportunity.

I believe we will see a starting wr corps featuring MM as #1, Robiskie number 2, and Stuckey will be solid in the slot. Though 2 and 3 could flip flop.

I liked the Pashos signing and I see him starting a T. And I don't tihnk we will draft OL with our number 1 either.

Fujita and Gocung will start alongside Roth and either DQ/Bowens/Barton.

It will be interesting to see whether any of the LB's we drafte last year will grow any....I think Trusnick will see a lot of spot duty. This guy was a great pick-up. He can play any lb spot and even put his hand in the dirt and he is one of those high-motor, blue-collar type guys that seem to make plays when you really need 'em to.

Brown will improve the secondary---but that won't mean much if we can't find someone to play safety. Whoever it will be, it will most likely be their first year in our system so they could be a liability throughout the first half of the year.

I hope Delhomme starts. But that scares me too. Browns fans could very easily do what they always do----

Se-ne-ca!!

Se-ne-ca!!

Se-ne-ca!!

And then the QB position would be a mess again.

I want to see McD as the nickelback.

I can't wait to see our draft though. That will give us all a goo idea of where this organization is going.

They definitely want to become competitive in a hurry.

Holmgren made it very clear, there will be no midseason QB switches going on this year, something that both Romeo and Eric never grasped the concept of.

And saying DA will have a better career than Quinn is like saying that I'd rather be shot than set on fire. You don't want either to happen (play) for you.

Quote:

---

I liked the Pashos signing and I see him starting a T. And I don't tihnk we will draft OL with our number 1 either.

Fujita and Gocung will start alongside Roth and either DQ/Bowens/Barton.

It will be interesting to see whether any of the LB's we drafte last year will grow any....I think Trusnick will see a lot of spot duty. This guy was a great pick-up. He can play any lb spot and even put his hand in the dirt and he is one of those high-motor, blue-collar type guys that seem to make plays when you really need 'em to.

---

I'm very nervous about Pashos, but that's because I don't know anything about him. I do know that finding a high quality tackle in FA is difficult, why would SF let him go? Can his injury from last year (broken left shoulder blade) pop up again? Good tackles don't move around that much. He's on turning 30 in august, so he's not that old yet. I don't remember him on the Ravens, but I definitely get the feeling that he's probably not that good. A lot rides on that position and if he's who we're going in with, we better be confident in Pashos

I also think it's interesting that you think that Barton has a chance to start, I don't think he's gonna make the team. He really just athletically lost it. He was awful last year. I think that if DQ isn't on this team, Trusnik or Bowens stand a very good chance to start. I'm also interested in what Maiava/Veikune (if he's playing ILB) might do. May be we'll get an ILB rookie too. Definitely the position could rotate depend on the down and situation. Trusnik is a good run stopper and okay blitzer, but he is awful at pass defense. I'm not sure who's good at pass defense, may be Maiava but Trusnik is simply awful in coverage.

If DQ is on this team he will definitely start though

The moves I question in this offseason are.

1) Bringing in Delhomme.
2) Not bringing in a more experienced WR.

Does anyone else find it odd that the main browns site doesn't have anything on it about the trade for Gocong and Brown...

Maybe the web guys were gone for a long weekend over Easter..

Well then I'll rain on both our parades a bit. Just read on Florio's site that Sims should be traded this week, and its looking like it will be to Chicago or Detroit.

Still have a TINY bit of hope, I guess . . .

Quote:

---

I believe we're still waiting on physicals.

---

Yes of course,,, what was I thinking... Thanks Cal... that makes sense.

They will probably be in this week for those and they we'll see a report on the Browns website.

Right now is not the time to sign a veteran WR. That usually comes after the draft.

Guys like TO, Holt, and Coles will all find new homes once the draft is over.